4um: The thread that's changed its focus from the original title. Carry on ;)

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In
Resistance
See other Resistance Articles
Title: The thread that's changed its focus from the original title. Carry on ;)
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Mar 21, 2009
Author: m e
Post Date: 2009-03-21 08:19:06 by Itistoolate
Keywords: None
Views: 10848
Comments: 2261

Officer Jack McLamb's shows:
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030209.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030309.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030409.mp3
arc.gcnlive.com/Archives2009/mar09/McLamb/030509.mp3
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#1. To: Itistoolate (#0)
I think we're fine. From what I understand, Goldi is spending an extended weekend in a mikveh bath on the lower east side.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-21 8:37:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: Jethro Tull (#1)
I believe that's a joke but on the other hand www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5490415

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 8:45:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: Jethro Tull (#1)
Gak. Like I really needed that in my head first thing on a Saturday. Bastard. :P
Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
Esso posted on 2009-03-21 9:10:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: Itistoolate (#0)
It could just be that Goldi has gone away for the weekend and doesn't know the site is down,or that there has been an equipment failure of some sort and they are working on getting it fixed.
Or it could just be that she got tired of putting up with all the crap,and just pulled the plug. I doubt the last one,though. I think she would post a notice if she were going to do this.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 9:21:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: sneakypete (#4)
Yes, all viable possibilities.

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 9:25:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: sneakypete (#4)
I used to think you were OK, but then for some reason I came to believe you to be the enemy. Now I can't remember why. Isn't that a kick in the ass?
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-21 9:42:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: Jethro Tull (#1)
No great loss.
Just another Jew propaganda site.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 9:53:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: sneakypete (#4)
Or it could just be that she got tired of putting up with all the crap,and just pulled the plug.

Crap????

Like the resident Jews whining and sniveling to her all the time about the horrible anti semites?????
I dont think so. Ass kissing goys make me and this forum sick.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 10:00:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: Itistoolate (#0)
From the LP Status Page:
http://www.freewebs.com/lpstatus/
Current status of www.libertypost.org:
Liberty Post is OFFLINE.
Notes:
The Liberty Post server is offline and has not responded to remote power cycling. An examination of the server will be made as soon as possible to determine the cause of the failure.

Last updated: 3/20/2009 9:50 PM Eastern Time.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-21 10:16:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: Cynicom (#8)
I dont think so. Ass kissing goys make me and this forum sick.

Ah come on, I know you and McCain_Rocks are secret buddies LOL!
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-21 10:17:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: Itistoolate (#0)
How much time do we have left?

You have five minutes left. Please get your things in order and make sure your will is updated. Have a nice day.
Sincerely,
The Federal Government
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-21 10:22:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Hayek Fan (#10)
The only friends I have at LP are Magician and Marguerite..
No need telling you what they are.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 10:23:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: Cynicom (#12)
The only friends I have at LP are Magician and Marguerite..
No need telling you what they are.

Well Marguerite is a foreign Mossad agent while Magician is an American traitor whose loyalties lie with Israel and not the United States. I read that Magician's daughter even traveled to Israel to serve in their army.
I hope neither Magician nor his daughter have sensitive government positions because they will definitely give any information they obtain to Israel without battng an eye.
I've noticed that Marguerite has a lot of pull with Goldi-lox. While Goldi completely ignores the complaints of nearly everyone on the board (such as glc's constant e-bay spam), she pounce on any complain made by Marguerite.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-21 10:41:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: Cynicom (#12)
The only friends I have at LP are Magician and Marguerite..

LOL....that is all I needed to confirm my long held suspicions about you!

robnoel posted on 2009-03-21 10:44:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: robnoel, Cynicom (#14)
LOL....that is all I needed to confirm my long held suspicions about you!

I don't want to put words in Cynicom's mouth but I believe he was being facetious.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-21 10:48:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: Hayek Fan (#15) (Edited)
I wish I could tell you what I know from way back about that pair.
Years ago when I started snooping at FreakVille I uncovered many little gnomes with dirty hands.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 10:57:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: robnoel (#14)
rob...
Working on a big dirt buy.
Wont make a fortune but I also wont be holding on to a lot of government TP.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 11:00:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: sneakypete (#4)
Hey sneak...

war posted on 2009-03-21 11:08:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: Cynicom (#17)
Why buy it now? why not wait till prices correct another 30% won't have to wait to long

robnoel posted on 2009-03-21 11:16:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: robnoel (#19)
Rob...
Going to be holding in near future bundle of paper, no gold no bank, buy dirt.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 11:23:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: Critter (#6)
I used to think you were OK, but then for some reason I came to believe you to be the enemy. Now I can't remember why. Isn't that a kick in the ass?

LOL! You are one step ahead of me. I have such a hard time remembering names that I can almost never even remember WHO I a supposed to dislike,never mind why.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 11:25:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: Cynicom (#8)
Crap????
Like the resident Jews whining and sniveling to her all the time about the horrible anti semites?????

I guess it's all in the viewpoint. I see more Jew haters calling her names than I see Jews sniveling about anti-Semites.
BTW,I was called a anti-Semite there the day before the site went down,and it wasn't the first time. I see no evidence of the Jews and Israeli-Firsters there having any more influence with her than anybody else. In fact,she even banned Margueritte a couple of years ago under another of her screen names.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 11:28:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: Hayek Fan (#13)
I've noticed that Marguerite has a lot of pull with Goldi-lox.

Yeah,she has so much she got banned by Goldi a couple of years ago under one of her other screen names. She has even pretty much behaved since she came back as Marguerite.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 11:31:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: war (#18)
Hello,war. Looks like I might be pulling your chain over here about President Soetoro if LP doesn't come back up.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 11:33:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: sneakypete (#22)
I guess it's all in the viewpoint. I see more Jew haters calling her names than I see Jews sniveling about anti-Semites.

Perhaps there is a thought...
You also like magician, Marge and the others see nothing but Jew haters.
If you look at LP, that is nearly all you see, people that see anti semitism under their bed, in the closet and are afraid to deal with it.
No one on LP has ever raised the specter of anti goyism, have you ever wondered about that Pete????
I can go on LP and demand we nuke the Arab world, and not ONE WORD of disapproval, from anyone, not one.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 11:51:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: Cynicom (#25)
You also like magician,

LOL! Ironically enough,I do like him as long as the subject isn't about Jews. He's the one that called me a anti-Semite the day before LP went down.
No one on LP has ever raised the specter of anti goyism, have you ever wondered about that Pete????
No. Mostly because I do that myself on a semi-regular basis. In fact,I THINK my very last post there before it went down was about that very subject. Morris Dees and the SPLC always discovering racism and hate unless it was a Jew doing the hating. They he plays the 3 monkees.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 11:57:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: sneakypete, critter (#21)
I have such a hard time remembering names that I can almost never even remember WHO I a supposed to dislike,never mind why.

LOL I hear that! That's why I keep the same name. I am who I am. I got nothing to hide.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-21 12:02:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: Cynicom (#25)
I can go on LP and demand we nuke the Arab world, and not ONE WORD of disapproval, from anyone, not one.

Missed this one.
I can't speak for anyone else,but you would hear protest there from me.
What you seem to be missing is most of the people there (and everywhere else) that cheer the suggestion we nuke the A-Rabs aren't Jewish. Most are Christians,if in name only. They are people who bought into the whole terrorism thing at face value,and they are scared.
BTW,I think that unless the NWO does take over we will eventually end up nuking several Muslim countries. It is inevitable that sooner or later some fundie Muslim group or another is going to get their hands on a nuke or a bio weapon,and use it to attack a major US city. Once that happens,all bets are off. Even I will be cheering to see the mushroom clouds over Arabia.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 12:03:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: sneakypete (#28)
When I was run out of LP, it was because the members were going into orgasm about killing all the Lebonese, men women and children, beheading them or whatever.
I spoke up at their blood thirstiness and not one soul came to my aid, so I was thrown out. All from people that decry anti semitism.
A disgraceful lot.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 12:16:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: sneakypete. all (#28)
It is inevitable that sooner or later some fundie Muslim group or another is going to get their hands on a nuke or a bio weapon,and use it to attack a major US city.

Just take the time to be sure that it's not another false flag op before reacting.
Iran Truth Now!
Lod posted on 2009-03-21 12:32:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: Cynicom (#29)
When I was run out of LP, it was because the members were going into orgasm about killing all the Lebonese, men women and children, beheading them or whatever.
I spoke up at their blood thirstiness and not one soul came to my aid, so I was thrown out. All from people that decry anti semitism.

I would have spoken up if I had seen it,and have spoken up against mass murder many times in the past.
I have been called a anti-Semite and a Jew Lover on the same thread. The recent favorite is meguro and a couple of others calling me a Kluxxer,despite the fact that I'm not even white,and last time I heard,they weren't accepting people with Indian blood.
Not that I care because I wouldn't join anyhow. I hate the Nazi's every bit as much as I hate the communists.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 14:17:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: lodwick (#30)
Just take the time to be sure that it's not another false flag op before reacting.

Nobody is going to take that time if tens of thousands of American citizens are murdered in a nuclear or bio attack,with tens or hundreds of thousands more dying or sick. The blood will run in the streets as Muslims are pulled out of their homes and killed,and there won't be a thing in the world anybody can do to prevent it from happening.
Any president that refused to respond in kind would be dragged from the WH and hanged.
Americans have had the luxury of appearing to be nice rational people because we have been for all practical purposes immune from attack. Anybody that does attack us will discover what a horrible mistake they have made,but by then it will be too late for them or anybody else to do anything to save them from virtual extinction.
I have said this before and I say it again,the truly ironic part about all this is how the minorities of the world have been whining for generations now about how evil the white man is while the white man has fed,clothed,and provided housing and medical care for them,and the leaders that pushed that mantra are so stupid they thought they were lying. The white man is a MUCH bigger monster when pissed and backed into a corner than they ever dreamed of facing,but face him they will,and they won't like him in the few remaining moments of life they have left.
The white man has always been a very tiny minority of the world population,yet he ended up running virtually the whole world at one time. He didn't get to do this because he was a swell dancer.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 14:28:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: sneakypete (#28)
I think that unless the NWO does take over we will eventually end up nuking several Muslim countries. It is inevitable that sooner or later some fundie Muslim group or another is going to get their hands on a nuke or a bio weapon,and use it to attack a major US city.

Maybe that's why I thought you to be the enemy. Do you still buy the lie that fundie muzzies hit us on 9/11 without Bush's help?
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-21 14:31:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: Critter (#33)

Maybe that's why I thought you to be the enemy. Do you still buy the lie that fundie muzzies hit us on 9/11 without Bush's help?

Of course they did. Did Bush exploit the situation for political gain? Of course.
But what is so hard to believe about the 9-11 attacks? Committing terrorism is easy. I'm shocked it isn't done more.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-21 14:36:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: Rhino369 (#34)
But what is so hard to believe about the 9-11 attacks?

A known pack of eternal liars (Feds and media) are the source of the official story. Believing liars isn't wise.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-21 14:39:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: Critter (#33)
Do you still buy the lie that fundie muzzies hit us on 9/11 without Bush's help?

It's not a lie. It's the truth. I will grant you that it seems like nobody in the US government did much to try and stop them,but Boy Jorge couldn't organize a circle jerk in a bathhouse.
I am 100% positive he attacked Iraq in order to protect Saudi Arabia,though. The excuse given and accepted was to prevent more attacks against the US and/or Israel,but Saddam Hussein was never a threat to either Israel or the US. He might have talked a lot of crap about America and the US,but it was for local public consumption to help keep the religious loons in line. Hussein was NOT a stupid man,and he knew that a attack on either Israel or the US would leave him glowing in the dark.
He WAS a serious threat to the House of Saud,though. Like every other leader in Arabia,Hussein wanted to be the King of a united Arabia. So did the King of Saudi Arabia. Hussein wanted his oil and money,and wanted him out of the way.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 14:44:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: sneakypete, all (#32) (Edited)
If there is a nuclear attack in America, the odds will be 99% in favor of false flag.
If the government (what's left of it) decides to drag any Arabs from their homes, you'll never know about it because you'll have just been returned to 1880 in a society that no longer has the agricultural structure it did back then.
You'll likely be starving to death and sheltering from radiation fallout and therefore won't be worrying much about who did it.
But I know one thing, the enforcers will still be around to implement power, control and rationing anywhere they encounter unarmed groups, and anyone armed will soon be unarmed or dead.
Such a situation will not be viewed automatically as a foreign attack by the wiser among us.
Go rent the 2-season DVD to CBS "Jericho." There's a lot to be learned, which I believe is why it was taken off the air. They were too close to plausible scenarios. (the show deals with a false flag nuke attack on the US and its aftermath, although you don't know at first it was elements in the government that did it) edit

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-21 14:54:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: sneakypete (#36)
Boy Jorge couldn't organize a circle jerk in a bathhouse

The people around him could and did for eight years. They had many fooled into thinking that Bush was running the show.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-21 14:54:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: bluegrass (#38)
Boy Jorge couldn't organize a circle jerk in a bathhouse
The people around him could and did for eight years. They had many fooled into thinking that Bush was running the show.

That does not remove the complicity from Chimperor's hands anymore than Omessiah's. All of the socialist clowns that have been thrown at us through the generations have all been complicit. Calling them puppets leads to the misperception that they are not reponsible and that just isn't true at all.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-21 14:58:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: IndieTX (#37)
If there is a nuclear attack in America, the odds will be 99% in favor of false flag.
BullBarack!

If the government (what's left of it) decides to drag any Arabs from their homes,
It won't be the government doing this,it will be regular citizens.
you'll never know about it because you'll have just been returned to 1880 in a society that no longer has the agricultural structure it did back then.
You can't seriously think the US government is going to nuke America back into the 18th century?????

Such a situation will not be viewed automatically as a foreign attack by the wiser among us.
Go rent the 2-season DVD to CBS "Jericho."
You do know that Jericho is a teebee show,right? It's well-written,but it's still a tv show.
There's a lot to be learned, which I believe is why it was taken off the air.
It hasn't been taken off the air. I record it on my DVR,and I just checked and saw that it comes on 4 different channels tonight.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 17:04:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#41. To: sneakypete (#24)
Looks like I might be pulling your chain over here about President Soetoro if LP doesn't come back up.

Chuckles...I'll throw in a few more links just in case...
But, between me and you...I think you'll find it far more target rich than just me here...

war posted on 2009-03-21 17:15:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#42. To: sneakypete, all (#40) (Edited)
taken off the air=no longer in production even though it had a huge audience and yes I am quite aware it is fiction. don't resort to obfuscation and false arguments to sidetrack things. you were told to beware of false flags by another poster. you cast that notion aside without even thinking. your mind is already made up. the gooberment needs people like you for its psyops
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-21 17:20:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#43. To: IndieTX, Everyone else (#42)
Some one resurrected this post of mine from 2004:
www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm
Within 1/2 hr the site went down.

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 17:30:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#44. To: sneakypete (#40)
It's well-written,but it's still a tv show.

It wasn't even well written. It had a cool premise but horrible execution. Its the end of the world but lets have a thanksgiving party! It was 90120-Apocalypse half the time. It was cool, but it let me down.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-21 17:59:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#45. To: Itistoolate (#43)
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as ~~selfish aristocrats~~ TERRORISTS who had no concern for the "common man." Thus the new government tactic by the likes of Janet Reno and all the rest. I still say Waco was a live fire dry run and the end of all hope when nobody went to their aid. The faux militia movements are just that: fakes. They are nothing more than CIA sponsored information gathering tools for TheStateInc and otherwise a big joke run by double agents and provacateurs like the faux patriot bo gritz ..
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-21 18:13:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#46. To: IndieTX (#45)
Isn't it odd how it doesn't say discredit the CIA?

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 18:15:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#47. To: Itistoolate (#46)
Isn't it odd how it doesn't say discredit the CIA?

Very odd. And only a 147 IQ would notice that and see its relevance.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-21 18:18:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#48. To: IndieTX (#47)
I think the cia wrote it. That's where they're hiding.

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 18:25:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#49. To: Itistoolate (#43)
i don't think anyone took LP down. LP is not a threat to TPTB if you know what i mean. i bet it will be back soon.

christine posted on 2009-03-21 18:42:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#50. To: christine (#49)
what is TPTB?

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 18:48:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#51. To: Itistoolate (#50)
The Powers That Be.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-21 18:49:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#52. To: IndieTX (#42)
taken off the air=no longer in production even though it had a huge audience and yes I am quite aware it is fiction. don't resort to obfuscation and false arguments to sidetrack things.

No," taken off the air" means it can no longer be seen. In the context you presented it,it means the government took it off the air because they didn't want people seeing it and thinking. If that were true,it wouldn't be playing on 4 channels tonight.
you were told to beware of false flags by another poster. you cast that notion aside without even thinking.
Believe it or not,but I have some familiarity with false flag operations. I cast it aside in this case because it's slightly less possible than a Klingon attack.
Hell,it isn't even necessary.
your mind is already made up.
Of course it is. You think I just started thinking about this stuff yesterday? I am well aware that the feral government was behind the KKK firebombs and murders in the 50's and 60's,and the demonizing of the militia in the 80's and 90's. Going from that to nuking major cities is a MAJOR leap,though.
Their goal is to OWN the country for their own enjoyment,not physically destroy it.

the gooberment needs people like you for its psyops
Now I'm a gubbermint psyops agent because I disagree with you?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 18:51:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#53. To: James Deffenbach, christine (#51) (Edited)
Remember the post I made that got nearly 300 "views" in 20 min.?

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 18:53:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#54. To: Rhino369 (#44)
It wasn't even well written. It had a cool premise but horrible execution. Its the end of the world but lets have a thanksgiving party! It was 90120-Apocalypse half the time. It was cool, but it let me down.

I had several people rant and rave to me about how good it is,so I have been recording it to watch later. I haven't watched any of it yet because I want to watch them all in order to get the full enjoyment.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 18:56:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#55. To: Itistoolate (#53)
Rember the post I made that got nearly 300 "views" in 20 min.?

No. Could you refresh my memory on that?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-21 19:03:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#56. To: sneakypete (#36)
It's not a lie. It's the truth.

Yup, now I know why I distrust you. You are the enemy, either through ignorance or by sinister design.
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-21 19:05:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#57. To: James Deffenbach (#55)
freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=97411

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 19:12:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#58. To: Itistoolate (#57)
I clicked on the link and the article is showing 47 views....???
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-21 19:26:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#59. To: Itistoolate (#0)
LibertyForum went 'down' last year and now LibertyPost is down. How much time do we have left?

I don't think the NWO/Kenyan gubmint has the balls to start pulling the plug yet on forums that may be exposing them, but give 'em a bit more time.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:05:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#60. To: F16Fighter (#59)
bump for good memories

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 20:07:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#61. To: sneakypete (#4)
It could just be that Goldi has gone away for the weekend and doesn't know the site is down,or that there has been an equipment failure of some sort and they are working on getting it fixed.
Or it could just be that she got tired of putting up with all the crap,and just pulled the plug. I doubt the last one,though. I think she would post a notice if she were going to do this.

Has Goldi ever neglected LP to this extent?
I'm inclined to believe a combination of the grief of dealing mentally disturbed whining posters, the wretched state of the Union, and pressures we may not be privy to in her personal life may have caused her to say "SCREW IT!"...even for a week or so and beyond. Hope she's alright.
Pulling the plug permanently? Hey - who knows.
F16Fighter/Liberator

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:12:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#62. To: Rotara (#60) (Edited)
bump for good memories

Past, present, or future?
:-)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:13:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#63. To: F16Fighter (#62)
Past memories brought to present seeing your handle.
I'm a recovering Repubican who, by God's grace, was able to hop out of the matrix.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 20:16:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#64. To: Critter (#56)
Yup, now I know why I distrust you. You are the enemy, either through ignorance or by sinister design.

LOL!

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 20:18:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#65. To: Critter, sneakypete (#56)
Yup, now I know why I distrust you. You are the enemy, either through ignorance or by sinister design.

If you consider Pete the "enemy," we're ALL in trouble.
Some folks see conspiracies at different junctures, from different perspectives ...immediately OR in good time.
You may not agree with the man - and I don't always - but he's spot on most of the time and as intellectually honest a poster as I've seen.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:18:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#66. To: F16Fighter (#62)
hi there, i remember you from FR! welcome to 4um.

christine posted on 2009-03-21 20:20:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#67. To: F16Fighter (#65)
If I recall you correctly, you left a bad impression on me.
Time will tell.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 20:20:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#68. To: Rotara (#63)
Alright! Here's to toasting the past and kicking @ss over at FR:
So...You were once a Pubbie who has since saw the light?

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:23:31 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#69. To: christine (#66)
Thanks Christine...Hadn't you frequented both FR and LP?

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:25:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#70. To: Cynicom (#67)
If I recall you correctly, you left a bad impression on me.

Yes, I believe the feeling was indeed mutual...But I forget exactly why.
We shall get a better handle on that eventually I suppose.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:27:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#71. To: F16Fighter (#61)
Has Goldi ever neglected LP to this extent?

Seems to me she has been pretty much ignoring it for the last several months. Ever since she got the new job,anyhow.
I'm inclined to believe a combination of the grief of dealing mentally disturbed whining posters, the wretched state of the Union, and pressures we may not be privy to in her personal life may have caused her to say "SCREW IT!"...even for a week or so and beyond.
She definitely has more patience than I do. I would have bailed long ago.
Hope she's alright.
Me,too. I'm hoping we hear something soon.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 20:29:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#72. To: F16Fighter (#70)
Well, dont settle in with all the furniture, you may not like the neighborhood and decide to move on.
I may be wrong but, time will tell.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 20:29:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#73. To: F16Fighter (#65)
as intellectually honest a poster as I've seen.

Thank you for that. I really do try to remain honest.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 20:30:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#74. To: F16Fighter, cynicom (#70)
If I recall you correctly, you left a bad impression on me.
Yes, I believe the feeling was indeed mutual...But I forget exactly why.

Well, I suppose fighting F16's all the time would leave one irritable.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-21 20:31:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#75. To: sneakypete (#71)
There was a poster called "Mrs Yukon" that posted an article with a pretty raunchy title.

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 20:32:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#76. To: Critter (#33)
Do you still buy the lie that fundie muzzies hit us on 9/11 without Bush's help?

It pained me to believe it so without reservation, but the complicity by purposeful neglect indicts the globalist Bush Administration puppetmeisters is obvious IMO.
Oh...And, no, I don't believe Bush himself was capable of masterminding a lemonade stand.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:32:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#77. To: Itistoolate (#75)
There was a poster called "Mrs Yukon" that posted an article with a pretty raunchy title.

"Mrs Yukon" (obviously a poster trying to yank Yukon's chain) posted several pretty raunchy articles and posts. It was obviously someone only interested in causing trouble.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 20:34:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#78. To: F16Fighter (#76)
complicity by purposeful neglect

Ahhhh,but purposeful neglect is NOT the same thing as "being behind it".
I don't think they made any real effort to stop any potential attack,but that's not the same thing as saying they planned or encouraged one.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 20:38:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#79. To: F16Fighter (#76)
I don't believe Bush himself was capable of masterminding a lemonade stand.

LOL! Yes indeed--to be a mastermind presupposes the presence of a mind.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-21 20:39:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#80. To: sneakypete (#71)
>>Seems to me she [Goldi] has been pretty much ignoring it for the last several months. Ever since she got the new job,anyhow.

Yeah - Thank God LP hasn't exactly been babysat to the extent that JimRob hawks over his Stalinist site, but it could be cleaned up a bit. But hey - maybe her priorities are exactly the way they oughta be.
>>" She definitely has more patience than I do. I would have bailed long ago."
And I as well...Hope we something soon on both her health and the status of the forum...
Despite LP being a great outlet for blowing off steam and lending itself to constructive and unrestrictive, uncensored debate, some the kiddies seem bent on sabotaging it...

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:40:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#81. To: Cynicom (#72)
Well, dont settle in with all the furniture, you may not like the neighborhood and decide to move on.

I think I'll make that determination if you don't mind...Your manners are NOT impressing me thus far.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:42:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#82. To: sneakypete (#73)
Brother, I think most posters who know you would agree with my assessment.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:43:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#83. To: tom007 (#74)
I think I'll need a translator...

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:44:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#84. To: F16Fighter (#69)
Hadn't you frequented both FR and LP?

yes. then FreedomUnderground. then here.

christine posted on 2009-03-21 20:45:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#85. To: sneakypete (#78)
Ahhhh,but purposeful neglect is NOT the same thing as "being behind it".
I don't think they made any real effort to stop any potential attack,but that's not the same thing as saying they planned or encouraged one.

Gray area there, Pete.
I've made the case with respect to 9/11 as analogous to leaving the store door wide open and unguarded - along with an open cash register - then claiming no responsibility for the thievery.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:47:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#86. To: James Deffenbach (#79)
LOL! Yes indeed--to be a mastermind presupposes the presence of a mind.

Dubya has a "mind"...It's just been "borrowed" by Poppy's Elitist friends.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:49:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#87. To: F16Fighter (#80)
Despite LP being a great outlet for blowing off steam and lending itself to constructive and unrestrictive, uncensored debate, some the kiddies seem bent on sabotaging it...

That may be why. It's not the type of website they like.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 20:49:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#88. To: F16Fighter (#81)
I think I'll make that determination if you don't mind...Your manners are NOT impressing me thus far.

I have little interest in impressing anyone.
If I am incorrect, I will be the first to admit it to you.
Other than that, welcome to 4um, you may or may not like it here as they tolerate my kind.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-21 20:50:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#89. To: sneakypete (#52) (Edited)
No," taken off the air" means it can no longer be seen. In the context you presented it,it means the government took it off the air because they didn't want people seeing it and thinking. If that were true,it wouldn't be playing on 4 channels tonight.

I just explained the context in which I presented it. You're now inferring meaning which is fraudulent. Off you go now. I haven't time for your jousting. Goodbye.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-21 20:52:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#90. To: F16Fighter (#86)
Dubya has a "mind"...

Well, compared to the current occupant of the White House he almost sounds like a candidate for MENSA. But to say he is probably smarter than the Obamasiah is not bragging on him. More like damning him with faint praise.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-21 20:53:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#91. To: Itistoolate (#0)
LibertyForum went 'down' last year

Wasn't the slack picked up by Astoria's forum? where did everyone from there go?
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-21 20:54:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#92. To: christine (#84)
>>Hadn't you frequented both FR and LP?
"yes. then FreedomUnderground. then here."

I assume Herr JR's FR was too Stalinist for you? If you're like me you'd found some elements whereever with which you related, but did not "fall-in-line" with the consensus.
Every forum forms and develops its own flavor and evolves or else it grows stale.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:54:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#93. To: sneakypete, Itistoolate (#77)
"Mrs Yukon" (obviously a poster trying to yank Yukon's chain) posted several pretty raunchy articles and posts. It was obviously someone only interested in causing trouble.

Poetic justice. I will never forgive him for what he did.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-21 20:56:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#94. To: Cynicom (#88)
welcome to 4um, you may or may not like it here as they tolerate my kind.

Thank you.
I can tolerate opposing views as long as the debate is intellectually honest.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:56:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#95. To: sneakypete (#87)
I HOPE the sabotage of the usual goofballs wasn't instrumental in Goldi closing shop; That will have meant they've won the battle.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 20:58:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#96. To: farmfriend (#91)
I don't know about Astoria's forum.

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 21:00:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#97. To: F16Fighter (#95)
I HOPE the sabotage of the usual goofballs wasn't instrumental in Goldi closing shop; That will have meant they've won the battle.

I don't pretend to be close friends with Goldi,but I have a hard time believing she would pull the plug without making an announcement.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-21 21:01:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#98. To: James Deffenbach (#90)
Well, compared to the current occupant of the White House he almost sounds like a candidate for MENSA. But to say he is probably smarter than the Obamasiah is not bragging on him. More like damning him with faint praise.

LOL...
As we've gotten to "know" 0bomba, I believe Dubya's actually gained in mental stature. Sadly. And ironically.
Dubya may not have been able to run that lemonade stand, but at least he would have attempted to run it; Obama would have turned his nose up at the prospect, while giggling and lighting HUGE joint...then conning someone else to run it.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 21:04:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#99. To: sneakypete (#97)
Certainly outta character for her...but...

Liberator posted on 2009-03-21 21:05:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#100. To: F16Fighter (#98) (Edited)
Obama would have turned his nose up at the prospect, while giggling and lighting HUGE joint...then conning someone else to run it.

Here is what his pet chimp (Michelle) said about him:

"Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zone . . . Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual - uninvolved, uninformed."

Where did she get the stupid idea that he could "require" people to work? He is an EMPLOYEE, not the boss. And it is doubtful he is even a legitimate employee.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-21 21:09:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#101. To: James Deffenbach (#100)
Where did she get the stupid idea that he could "require" people to work?

Apparently when the 'State takes the Road':
An Extract from "DAS KAPITAL" Karl Marx - 1867

"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more expensive goods, and houses, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until debt becomes unbearable.
The unpaid debt will lead to the bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to Communism. "
Karl Marx, 1867.

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 21:13:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#102. To: nooz (#101)
Yeah, maybe her adherence to communist ideas (such as they are) explains a lot of things about her and the Obamasiah.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-21 21:14:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#103. To: James Deffenbach (#102)
Yeah, maybe her adherence to communist ideas (such as they are) explains a lot of things about her and the Obamasiah.

But did the sheep listen? Noooooo-ooooo-ooooo. Too late now. Mandatory 'shear'vice is here. No little moonpie-eye left behind.

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 21:20:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#104. To: Itistoolate (#96)
I don't know about Astoria's forum.

Boondocks. She started it with Jack Barbara, or what ever his name was, and a few others.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-21 21:45:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#105. To: nooz (#101)
Apparently when the 'State takes the Road':
An Extract from "DAS KAPITAL" Karl Marx - 1867
"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more expensive goods, and houses, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until debt becomes unbearable.
The unpaid debt will lead to the bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to Communism. "
Karl Marx, 1867.

:chills:

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 22:46:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#106. To: Rotara (#105)
To: nooz
Apparently when the 'State takes the Road': An Extract from "DAS KAPITAL" Karl Marx - 1867
"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more expensive goods, and houses, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until debt becomes unbearable.
The unpaid debt will lead to the bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to Communism. "
Karl Marx, 1867.
:chills:

Communism sounds quaint compared to the ROAD we're on.
But just in case it's not clear enough:

Baxter: Product contained live bird flu virus

www.infowars.com/baxter-p...ined-live-bird-flu-virus/

Vaccines as Biological Weapons? Live Avian Flu Virus Placed in Baxter Vaccine Materials Sent to 18 Countries
www.infowars.com/vaccines...ons-live-avian-flu-virus- placed-in-baxter-vaccine-materials-sent-to-18-countries/

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 23:00:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#107. To: sneakypete (#54)

I had several people rant and rave to me about how good it is,so I have been recording it to watch later. I haven't watched any of it yet because I want to watch them all in order to get the full enjoyment.

Its worth a watch, and will probably be better if you watch it all in a row. But don't expect a great show. Its merely good.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-21 23:07:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#108. To: nooz (#106)
from your link
Genocide thru pandemic Says: March 5th, 2009 at 8:44 am
Is Jewish controlled Baxter planning a genocide of non Jews?
Baxter was one of the Arab League’s blacklist of companies doing business with the Jewish state.
Baxter sent out the contaminated material to 18 countries with a focus on Austria and Germany. If any of the lab staff had gotten infected (it’s still not clear), it could have started a pandemic in no time. Avir Green Hills Biotechnology is in a built up location in Vienna, on a key traffic artery, albeit close to suburbs.
The company only checked its staff after the Czech labs, and then the other German, Slovakian and Austrian labs found the virus.
Isn’t this attempted genocide?
www.pgorg.com/index.html
Attempted mass murder?

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 23:16:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#109. To: nooz (#106)
The Global Fascist State built with a compassionate communism is something I'm very well aware of.
Thanks for the links

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 23:17:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#110. To: Itistoolate (#108)
Attempted mass murder?

yes

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 23:18:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#111. To: Rotara (#109)
The Global Fascist State built with a compassionate communism is something I'm very well aware of.
Thanks for the links

When will people understand that what is happening is not the accident of voting.

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 23:19:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#112. To: nooz (#110)
Depopulation 4 min.wmv https://www.box.net/shared/static/mrok45vrd9.wmv

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-21 23:21:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#113. To: nooz (#111)
When will people understand that what is happening is not the accident of voting.

It could be that the majority is simply not capable of surviving. I'm glad I'm not in the majority.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 23:23:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#114. To: Itistoolate (#112)
just opened and listening

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 23:36:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#115. To: Rotara (#113)
It could be that the majority is simply not capable of surviving. I'm glad I'm not in the majority.

Eyes up dude.

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 23:37:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#116. To: nooz (#111)

When will people understand that what is happening is not the accident of voting.

The people are stupid always have been and always will be. Its just the way humans are. The vast majority are stupid, and have no capacity to understand complex things.
However I think you aren't grasping what is happening now either. American society has been controlled by the business class almost from the beginning. Some colonies like Virgina were freaking set up by corporations. Literally a corporation, Virgina Company.
America didn't have a nobility, we had a business class. This is because land was almost free, since you could always move west. In europe land was scarce, and true wealth was in owning land. In America wealth was always in commerce, and banking.
America established a national bank almost immediately. And the United States has had central banking its entire history save 1837-1864. Corporate influence over the United States has always been there.
What we are seeing is nothing new, nor particularly worse than before.
This is important to realize, because there are many things that need to be fixed, but if you view our current situations without the lens of history you will never accomplish anything. This isn't the end or the world or anything close.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-21 23:40:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#117. To: Rhino369 (#116)
It sounds like possibly you have read The Creature.. by G Edward.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 23:42:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#118. To: Itistoolate (#112)
Finished.
A billion is just the tip. Sanger was only a part.

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 23:43:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#119. To: Rotara (#117)
No but if its good I might check it out. Do you recommend it?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-21 23:44:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#120. To: F16Fighter, sneakypete, war, Itistoolate, all (#61)
(by F16Fighter)
Has Goldi ever neglected LP to this extent?
I'm inclined to believe a combination of the grief of dealing mentally disturbed whining posters, the wretched state of the Union, and pressures we may not be privy to in her personal life may have caused her to say "SCREW IT!"...even for a week or so and beyond. Hope she's alright.
Pulling the plug permanently? Hey - who knows.
F16Fighter/Liberator

Hi F16Fighter
I was on LP briefly late at night two nights ago
and some disruptor had posted all bizarre hate in Breaking News
next morning site was down
I think Goldi got fed up, I don't know what she will do ?
I am guessing she isn't doing anything right now, just thinking it over?
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-21 23:45:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#121. To: Rhino369, TwentyTwelve, christine, litus, G Edward Griffin (#119)
Do you recommend it?

As if your life depended on it yesterday.
But please don't take just my word for it.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 23:46:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#122. To: Rhino369 (#116) (Edited)
The people are stupid always have been and always will be. Its just the way humans are. The vast majority are stupid, and have no capacity to understand complex things.
However I think you aren't grasping what is happening now either. American society has been controlled by the business class almost from the beginning. Some colonies like Virgina were freaking set up by corporations. Literally a corporation, Virgina Company.
America didn't have a nobility, we had a business class. This is because land was almost free, since you could always move west. In europe land was scarce, and true wealth was in owning land. In America wealth was always in commerce, and banking.
America established a national bank almost immediately. And the United States has had central banking its entire history save 1837-1864. Corporate influence over the United States has always been there.
What we are seeing is nothing new, nor particularly worse than before.
This is important to realize, because there are many things that need to be fixed, but if you view our current situations without the lens of history you will never accomplish anything. This isn't the end or the world or anything close.

Totally edited.
I do view what is happening through the lens of history and then some.

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 23:47:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#123. To: palo verde (#120)
How's the GOP treating you p v ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 23:47:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#124. To: palo verde (#120)
Is that my Lower East Side Bubbla?

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-21 23:49:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#125. To: Rotara (#117)
Actually now that I googled that book, one of my best friends recommended it to me last month. I will check it out.
One book that I have very mixed feelings about, is "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn. My high school History teacher made us read a chapter in it about the revolution, and I rejected it as commie bullshit at the time. But I read it years later, still believing it was mostly BS. But it did tell a side of American history usually glossed over. Still I believe it focuses much too much on class warefare, and often assigns a malevolent intent to those who made mistakes.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-21 23:52:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#126. To: palo verde (#120)
I have met beauty. Palo Verde.
She walks the earth. the sun and moon glows on our lives
gives us vision to live
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-21 23:53:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#127. To: F16Fighter, sneakypete (#85)
I don't think they made any real effort to stop any potential attack,but that's not the same thing as saying they planned or encouraged one.
I've made the case with respect to 9/11 as analogous to leaving the store door wide open and unguarded -

If you both are going to say the WTC 1, 2 and 7 came down because of fire then you're both either very ignorant or trolls. There is too much evidence to the contrary to believe otherwise.
Once you believe that the collapses were helped by explosives, then you have to believe that the Bush administration was complicit.
And even if you can't see the physical impossibility of collapse by fire, you have to be able to see that no plane is going to fly into DC air space unidentified and unintercepted, without inside top level complicity.
So which is it? Ignorance? Or shilliness?
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-21 23:53:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#128. To: palo verde, Mudboy Slim (#120)
I was on LP briefly late at night two nights ago
and some disruptor had posted all bizarre hate in Breaking News
next morning site was down
I think Goldi got fed up, I don't know what she will do ?
I am guessing she isn't doing anything right now, just thinking it over?

Wow, I knew this whole thing had to be Slim's fault all along.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-21 23:54:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#129. To: sneakypete, F16Fighter (#71)
(F16Fighter) Has Goldi ever neglected LP to this extent?
(sneakypete) Seems to me she has been pretty much ignoring it for the last several months. Ever since she got the new job,anyhow.
(F16Fighter) I'm inclined to believe a combination of the grief of dealing mentally disturbed whining posters, the wretched state of the Union, and pressures we may not be privy to in her personal life may have caused her to say "SCREW IT!"...even for a week or so and beyond.
(sneakypete) She definitely has more patience than I do. I would have bailed long ago.
I'm hoping we hear something soon.

Hi Pete,
I didn't know Goldi has new job
that would be very demanding and use up a lot of her time
You are are right about the patience, I too would have bailed long time ago if I were her
I hope we do hear something soon
I'm sure she's fine, I'm guessing this is just a time of lots of changes in her life
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-21 23:55:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#130. To: Rhino369 (#125)
As time is of the essence now, immediately after you get through The Creature from Jekyll Island I would recommend diving right into The Gulag Archipelago by A.S.
I'm concentrating there now.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 23:55:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#131. To: Rotara (#117)
It sounds like possibly you have read The Creature.. by G Edward.

Good.
Doubtful he'll get it.

nooz posted on 2009-03-21 23:57:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#132. To: Critter, F16Fighter, sneakypete (#127)
WTC 7 was taken down by demolition.
It's indisputable. Anyone that disagrees is welcome to bring their best and prepare to have to look through a new paradigm.
The 911 Popular Mechanics Official Fairy Tale® is cut and dried up to a threshold that goes far beyond merely instigating a New Pearl Harbor.
That's not my opinion - that's a fact.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-21 23:58:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#133. To: Itistoolate (#75)
There was a poster called "Mrs Yukon" that posted an article with a pretty raunchy title.

Yes, that was what I saw on Breaking News the night before site went down
so when site was down next day, I thought "Goldi has had it!"
I just ignore those asshole posts, but it makes the site "look so bad"
and gets it listed as a hate site, and banned in so many places
I thought Goldi got fed up
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-21 23:59:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#134. To: nooz (#131)
Whether we can throw them all back in or not, I'm going to keep trying to throw back one at a time as long as I can. No one can ever say I didn't work and exhaust all peaceful means to right the ship of freedom.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:00:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#135. To: sneakypete (#77)
"Mrs Yukon" (obviously a poster trying to yank Yukon's chain) posted several pretty raunchy articles and posts. It was obviously someone only interested in causing trouble.

YES!!!! Exactly
but it looks like it really pissed off Goldi
LP hasn't been back up since
it doesn't seem fair to me that a disruptor could destroy the site, and he said he posts there under a regular name too
I guess he meant it as a prank, he just wanted to annoy Yukon, he didn't think about its effect on Goldi
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:05:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#136. To: palo verde (#133)
and gets it listed as a hate site

palo,
hate is the appropriate expression normal people have toward a government that slaughters millions of innocent people in illegal wars and spends money created out of thin air. i should hope all forums would be hate sites, but that's just me.
peace
tommy the flatfoot

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 0:05:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#137. To: Critter (#127)
And even if you can't see the physical impossibility of collapse by fire, you have to be able to see that no plane is going to fly into DC air space unidentified and unintercepted, without inside top level complicity.

wonderfully succinct

christine posted on 2009-03-22 0:06:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#138. To: Jethro Tull (#136)
hate is the appropriate expression normal people have toward a government that slaughters millions of innocent people in illegal wars

Not to mention Immoral.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-22 0:07:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#139. To: Jethro Tull (#136)
but you're talking to a National Globalist warmonger

And Amen

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:07:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#140. To: F16Fighter (#80)
Yeah - Thank God LP hasn't exactly been babysat to the extent that JimRob hawks over his Stalinist site, but it could be cleaned up a bit. But hey - maybe her priorities are exactly the way they oughta be.
Hope we hear something soon on ... the status of the forum...
Despite LP being a great outlet for blowing off steam and lending itself to constructive and unrestrictive, uncensored debate, some the kiddies seem bent on sabotaging it..

great post, F16Fighter
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:08:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#141. To: christine (#137)
wonderfully succinct

The Big Statist Government worshipers will never accept the truth.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:08:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#142. To: Rotara (#134)
Whether we can throw them all back in or not, I'm going to keep trying to throw back one at a time as long as I can. No one can ever say I didn't work and exhaust all peaceful means to right the ship of freedom.

Two different issues.
Some posters exist to ensure the status quo survives. I guess those type should be ignored and ridiculed in passing, but there is no time to waste for those who ignore the knock of common sense.
Your focus is clear.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 0:09:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#143. To: nooz (#122)
I do view what is happening through the lens of history and then some.

Then you should see, America isn't really worse off than we were 150 years ago, nor significantly less free. The idea of a totally free America is revisionist bullshit. If you lived on the frontier you had economic, and political freedom, but that only lasted too long before civilization caught up. We just ran out of frontier. However the cities were always controlled by business interests. Hell the business class supported the revolution exactly because it was in their best interests.
Were the sharecroppers and tenant farmers paying 15% interest (on rent, seed, and tools, all purchased from their land owners store, and they had to sell to their owners distribution company) free?
Were factory workers who had to work 12 hours in horrible conditions free?
There are many parallels to modern events from the past. America went to war based on false intelligence to supposedly liberate a people and instead fought tough insurgencies, it was called the Spanish American war, and it was 1898. Instead of Iraqi insurgents it was Filipinos.
To steal a line from Battlestar Galactica, "All of this has happened, and will happen again."
America isn't ending. So don't get depressed.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 0:09:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#144. To: Rhino369 (#143)
In short

It's about the Bankster controlled Police State (now fully equipped to take US on).

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:11:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#145. To: F16Fighter, sneakypete (#95)
I HOPE the sabotage of the usual goofballs wasn't instrumental in Goldi closing shop; That will have meant they've won the battle.

good post, F16Fighter

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:12:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#146. To: Rhino369 (#143)
Then you should see, America isn't really worse off than we were 150 years ago, nor significantly less free. The idea of a totally free America is revisionist bullshit. If you lived on the frontier you had economic, and political freedom, but that only lasted too long before civilization caught up. We just ran out of frontier. However the cities were always controlled by business interests. Hell the business class supported the revolution exactly because it was in their best interests.
Were the sharecroppers and tenant farmers paying 15% interest (on rent, seed, and tools, all purchased from their land owners store, and they had to sell to their owners distribution company) free?
Were factory workers who had to work 12 hours in horrible conditions free?
There are many parallels to modern events from the past. America went to war based on false intelligence to supposedly liberate a people and instead fought tough insurgencies, it was called the Spanish American war, and it was 1898. Instead of Iraqi insurgents it was Filipinos.
To steal a line from Battlestar Galactica, "All of this has happened, and will happen again."
America isn't ending. So don't get depressed.

Thank you for your diatribe. When LP is back up, sell it there.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 0:12:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#147. To: James Deffenbach, F16Fighter (#98)
Good post, both of you!
I agree
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:13:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#148. To: Rotara (#144)
It's about the Bankster controlled Police State (now fully equipped to take US on).

Let's get them, Rotara, and all their wicked friends. Can I borrow a couple dozen attack helicopters in case things get rough?
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-22 0:14:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#149. To: christine (#137)
And even if you can't see the physical impossibility of collapse by fire, you have to be able to see that no plane is going to fly into DC air space unidentified and unintercepted, without inside top level complicity.

Before 911,
a Logistics employee I am good friends with, for Fed Ex told me about a system of vectored red lights that DC had in place to warn of any unauthorized aircraft from even getting near the capitol, and if the craft did not turn around, anti aircraft weapons were at the ready.
He flys a lot Alot.
I believe him.
However I have never broached the subject of the 911 attacks - for reasons of just getting along. I think he has got to go along with the ruse.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-22 0:15:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#150. To: Dakmar (#148)
Do you hunt deer, moose or elk ? (no does or split tails jokes please) ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:15:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#151. To: sneakypete, F16Fighter (#97)
I don't pretend to be close friends with Goldi,but I have a hard time believing she would pull the plug without making an announcement

maybe she just got fed up Pete, and pulled the plug
I hope not
I hope she's just taking a vacation from LP
and will bring it back up
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:16:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#152. To: Rotara (#150)
I'm teaching neighborhood squirrels to smoke.
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-22 0:18:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#153. To: palo verde (#151)
Maybe another war will cheer Goldi up ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:18:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#154. To: Dakmar (#152)
lol

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:18:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#155. To: Rotara (#141)
sigh...i just can't believe people can watch those towers explode and freefall and still think fire did it. that and the stand down of Norad...

christine posted on 2009-03-22 0:21:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#156. To: farmfriend, Itistoolate (#104)
(Itistoolate) I don't know about Astoria's forum.
(farmfriend) Boondocks. She started it with Jack Barbara, or what ever his name was, and a few others.

Thank you for this info, FarmFriend
I don't know Astoria, but I used to like Jack Barbara a lot during the brief times I was on Liberty Forum
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:21:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#157. To: Rhino369 (#143)
Start here:
http://video.google.com/videosear c h?q=the+creature+from+jekyll+island&emb=0&aq=f#

christine posted on 2009-03-22 0:22:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#158. To: Jethro Tull (#136)
Hi Jethro
I am happy to see you
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:23:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#159. To: christine (#155)
The whole thing. The stand down, the demolition of 7, the simultaneous training exercises to repel planes flying into buildings, the eyewitness accounts, et al
They can't accept it because then their whole foundation for being (more bigger government from cradle to grave) will dry up.
They worship REALLY big Nanny State welfare - warfare government.
They're staring down World Utopia right now with total stimulation. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:24:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#160. To: Dakmar (#128)
Hi Dakmar
long time, no see
I am happy to see you
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:26:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#161. To: Dakmar (#152)
I am glad to see someone is doing something to add value to our economy.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-22 0:26:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#162. To: palo verde (#160)
Hi p v
long time, no see
I am happy to see you
Love, R

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:27:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#163. To: tom007 (#149)
What is more likely? Our domestic air defense systems were hopelessly unprepared, or our government set it up, then perfectly executed the plan? Shit during the Clinton admin, a plane hit the white house, on accident.
Our government is incompetent, that much is clear.
It can't even torture people in Iraq in secret, do you think they can pull off a 9-11 without anyone knowing? Probably not.
Our foreign policy caused 9-11, and silly conspiracy theories take away from learning the real truth. Playing chess with other nations has fucking consequences.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 0:27:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#164. To: tom007 (#126)
Hi Tom
Gosh it's been ages
I am so happy to see you
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:28:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#165. To: Rhino369 (#163)
It can't even torture people in Iraq in secret, do you think they can pull off a 9-11 without anyone knowing? Probably not.

Barry Jennings disagreed at one time, but then he was threatened, and now he is dead.
He was an eyewitness.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:28:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#166. To: Rotara (#162)
Hi Rotara
Thank you very much for your friendly welcome
I lurked on 4um yesterday evening
and read many many posts by you and found them all very interesting
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:31:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#167. To: palo verde (#164)
I am so happy to see you Love, Palo

You say that to all the boys.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-22 0:31:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#168. To: palo verde (#160)
I am happy to see you

Damn, I'll have to launch into mini-opera I've written about high ranking politicians taking down's syndrome children ice-skating or something then.
Just kidding, it's great to hear from you again.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-22 0:32:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#169. To: palo verde (#166)
and read many many posts by you and found them all very interesting

Please point out two or three that you found most particularly interesting if you would be so incredibly kind. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:33:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#170. To: christine (#157)
thank you Christine for your gracious hospitality
to "homeless" LP posters
LP had now been down for two days and two nights
and no one knows when it will be back on
it is nice of you to let us come and post here
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:35:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#171. To: Rhino369 (#163) (Edited)
Our foreign policy caused 9-11,

Yes it did.
The truth of the matter many cannot stomach.
"They" do not hate us for our freedoms (possibly the most idotic statement ever in the history of the universe).
They hate us for our Lukid Israel party support.
The US has been infiltrated by foreign nationals.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-22 0:37:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#172. To: tom007 (#171)
Zbig and the illegal shadow government created the chaos.
Hell they created sadam and osama.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:38:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#173. To: Rotara (#165)

Barry Jennings disagreed at one time, but then he was threatened, and now he is dead.
He was an eyewitness.

One eyewitness is not nearly enough.
The demolition hypothesis doesn't even make sense. Why would they place demolitions then fly airplanes into them anyway? Do you think America would be less pissed off if they crashed airplanes into the towers, and they didn't fall? Probably not. It needlessly complicates a plan. And then tower 7 makes even less sense. If its impossible for tower 7 to fall down from fire, why would they bomb it? What good is it knocking down a building with nobody in it?
If I were going to fake a terrorist attack in the United States for political gain, I'd pick a small-big city like Duluth, Minnesota and set off a dirty bomb, then blame it on muslims crossing the border. You'd have political capital to invade any country you like, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, North Korea, all the above.
What I wouldn't do is fly real planes into buildings into buildings rigged with explosives. The United States has the best material science engineers, the best civil engineers and the best physicists. You won't be able to fake something that defies the laws of the universe.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 0:44:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#174. To: Rotara, ALL (#169)
O darling I wish I could
I clicked on 4um originally yesterday to see if there was anything posted about LP, why it was down
there wasn't anything
so then I looked at the articles posted to see which ones interested me, I read them and the threads under them
then I looked at Latest Comments and read those threads
For some reason you had a lot of comments on the threads I read, I found them so interesting
so then when I went back to Latest Comments later on in evening
I clicked on your posts
I found your posts lively, interesting, and thoughtful
they made me think and gave me ideas
I appreciated them
Love, Palo
I totally enjoyed lurking on 4um yesterday evening and spent a lot of time here
there were many many perceptive, thought-provoking comments by many posters
I am sorry LP is down, but every cloud has a silver lining
and I totally enjoyed spending yesterday evening reading all the threads on 4um

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:48:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#175. To: Rhino369 (#173)
One eyewitness is not nearly enough

Bullshit.
You need to ferret this one out before you scream flake.
This one is more than enough.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 0:48:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#176. To: Rhino369 (#173)
The demolition hypothesis doesn't even make sense.

The demolition hypothesis is the only one that makes sencse given the nature of the collapse.

Why would they place demolitions then fly airplanes into them anyway?

Are you really this ignorant? Or do you think we are just a bunch of dumbass yahoos?
Demolition without planes and fire would be too obvious an inside job. The planes provided a decent cover story for a while, but once the shock wore off, those of us with a few working brain cells began to see through the fairy tale.
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 0:49:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#177. To: Critter (#127)
So which is it? Ignorance? Or shilliness?

No,it's just a case of you being full of shit.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 0:49:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#178. To: christine (#157)
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/...sland_-_G._Edward_Griffin
Here you can download the audio book of the book. I hope you don't mind me posting it because its probably extra-legal to say the least. I'll listen to it at work this week.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 0:50:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#179. To: sneakypete (#177)
So which is it? Ignorance? Or shilliness?
No,it's just a case of you being full of shit.

I wish you had plead ignorance. Then I could at least feel some sympathy for you.
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 0:50:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#180. To: palo verde (#129)
Hello Palo. Good to see you.
Goldi was out of work for a while,but started a new job maybe 6 months ago

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 0:50:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#181. To: Dakmar (#168)
LOL Dakmar
I forgot how funnnny your posts are
you always make me laugh
you are so creative!
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:50:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#182. To: Rhino369 (#173)
You won't be able to fake something that defies the laws of the universe.

They did fake something that defies the laws of the universe and some people still buy it, and some just shill for it. Which are you?
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 0:52:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#183. To: Rotara (#169)
You might want a salad with the forthcoming fiber.
/snicker

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 0:52:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#184. To: Rotara (#132)
WTC 7 was taken down by demolition.

No,it wasn't,and it's plenty disputable.
I'm not about to waste any more of my time disputing these facts with people who are absolutely in love with this conspiracy theory. Believe what you want to believe.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 0:53:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#185. To: Critter, sneakypete (#179)
Pete's a good guy, no matter how much I disagree with him he never runs to the genies for facts that just aren't.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-22 0:54:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#186. To: sneakypete (#180)
Hello Palo. Good to see you.
Goldi was out of work for a while,but started a new job maybe 6 months ago

Hi Pete
Nice to see you here too
I have many old friends on this forum, I am happy to see them now
and it makes me feel comfortable that you and Lib are here too
It's fun having a change in forum
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:55:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#187. To: palo verde (#135)
I guess he meant it as a prank,

No,he meant it to cause harm.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 0:55:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#188. To: Dakmar, sneakypete (#185)
Pete's either still in a hypnotic, coolaid induced state or a shill. I don't know which just yet.
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 0:56:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#189. To: Rhino369 (#163)
It can't even torture people in Iraq in secret

Do you really think the photos depicting demented acts of degration were just something that came about because there were a few photo bugs onboard?
Something like that doesn't happen by accident. It is a psyop, the publicity and tales about torture are MEANT to piss people off. The more Muslims they can piss off, the better.
There's nothing like a REAL terror event to move things in the "right" direction. That way there won't be any questions asked, and everyone will gladly go along with whatever they are told needs to be done.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 0:57:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#190. To: Critter (#176)

The demolition hypothesis is the only one that makes sencse given the nature of the collapse.

That highly heated steel buckles under pressure?

Are you really this ignorant? Or do you think we are just a bunch of dumbass yahoos?

No response, yes.

Demolition without planes and fire would be too obvious an inside job. The planes provided a decent cover story for a while, but once the shock wore off, those of us with a few working brain cells began to see through the fairy tale.

Why would they choose a cover that, if what you say is true, any decent civil engineer in America would see through?
If they just flew airplanes into buildings and they just burned, and didn't fall, do you really think people would have been less pissed off? Why does the building need to fall?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 0:57:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#191. To: sneakypete (#187)
(Palo) I guess he meant it as a prank,
(Pete) No,he meant it to cause harm.

Pete, you think the poster Mrs Yukon, who chose that name to upset Yukon
posted those raunchy articles with malicious intent to harm LP?
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but maybe you are right
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 0:59:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#192. To: Rhino369 (#163)
What is more likely? Our domestic air defense systems were hopelessly unprepared, or our government set it up, then perfectly executed the plan?

Do you think the war games planned for that day, and the armada of ships sitting in the Indian Ocean were just there by coincidence?
Do you REALLY think a 110 story can collapse about as fast as if it were falling through thin air?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 0:59:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#193. To: Rhino369 (#190)
Why would they choose a cover that, if what you say is true, any decent civil engineer in America would see through?

623 architectural and engineering professionals have seen through it:
http://www.ae911truth.org/
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 1:00:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#194. To: sneakypete (#184) (Edited)
WTC 7 was taken down by demolition.
No,it wasn't,and it's plenty disputable.

I'm not about to waste any more of my time
Of course you won't. Nor will I. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:00:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#195. To: Critter, sneakypete (#188)
Pete's either still in a hypnotic, coolaid induced state or a shill. I don't know which just yet.

I doubt I'll ever control enough flying monkey slaves to get a good answer for those type questions.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-22 1:05:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#196. To: Rhino369 (#163)
silly conspiracy theories take away from learning the real truth

Not only that,but those same conspiracy theories are LOVED by the government because it allows them to dismiss any questions about their conduct as being linked to "those insane conspiracy freaks".
Instead of helping the cause of freedom,all they are doing in hurting it and helping the government.
AND....it does no good at all to argue with them because they are obsessed with every little detail,and have reams of false "Facts" to back up their arguments. What makes it so hard to argue against any conspiracy theory is that the best ones are all believable because there is a basis in fact to all of them.
For example *I* am the one that started the conspiracy theory Hillary Clinton being behind the crash of JFK Jr's airplane and his death. I started this rumor on FR and used the fact that he had been talking about running for the same Senate seat ("his" family Senate seat) that she was running for,and this is the reason she had a had the airplane rigged to crash. Within a hour this was accepted as the gospel,and I was being called a DNC shill for saying it was made up,and a liar for saying I was the one who made it up. DESPITE the fact that the proof I was the one who made it up was right there on that very thread!
Everybody jumped on the one little fact about the Senate seat,and that was all they needed or wanted to hear.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 1:08:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#197. To: Critter (#182)

They did fake something that defies the laws of the universe and some people still buy it, and some just shill for it. Which are you?

I buy it. There is no motive for such a complicated plan. A much simpler plan could be done that has the same effect without 1/10 the risk. Faking a truck bombing like the OKC bombing and have the building fall instantly for one.
I'm not an expert in civil engineering, nor material sciences, but I've taken a course on metal stresses and strains, and what happens at the failure point in metals. I understand the basics of how the collapse happened, but I'm not nearly qualified to judge it. However the people who are qualified, aren't coming out and saying its impossible.
So the experts don't agree, there is no motive, and there is no reliable evidence. Why should I believe such a thing?
Furthermore, you believe your government murdered thousands of Americans for political gain, and successfully covered it up. Why are you not at war with it? I'm not for revolution, except under very drastic situations, one such situation would be the government murdering it citizens.
And if you are not at war with it because you know you'd die (which I wouldn't look down on you for, I wouldn't fight without sufficient numbers either), why don't you try to uncover some of the guilty parties? Woodward and Bernstein didn't expose Nixon by writing letters to the editor in obscure papers.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:09:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#198. To: sneakypete (#196)
it allows them to dismiss any questions about their conduct

LOL
As bright as you are; I don't get it. How can you be so blind ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:10:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#199. To: All (#195)
I thank you all for your warm welcome
as a posting "addict" I am glad I can post here
I am happy to be posting on 4um
what Goldi will do I do not know
but as long as I can post here, I am happy
and she can take her time making any decision she wants
I love you
Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 1:11:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#200. To: Rhino369 (#197)
Faking a truck bombing like the OKC bombing and have the building fall instantly for one.

What better way to crank up the war machine than to rally the peeps with the New Pearl Harbor ? Does the DHS have something on you ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:11:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#201. To: FormerLurker (#189)
If that was the intent it massively back fired. The pictures were a massive embarrassment for the Bush admin, and helped start the antiwar movement in moderate political circles.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:12:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#202. To: palo verde (#199)
Glad 4um could be your sloppy seconds. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:12:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#203. To: Rotara (#198)
LOL
As bright as you are; I don't get it. How can you be so blind ?

We have buyers tonight.
Quick, let's sell them some goob repo's and throw out somemore people screwed over by the promise of change and hope.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 1:13:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#204. To: nooz (#203)
heheheheheheheheeeeee

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:16:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#205. To: palo verde (#199)
I am happy to be posting on 4um
what Goldi will do I do not know

Wouldn't all be serendipity if she let me post there as Flappy The Clown? :0
Ok, prolly not. :)
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-22 1:21:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#206. To: Rotara (#202)
LOL Rotara!
I have been a member of this forum several times
and I have always been happy here
but my problem is my views are very eccentric
and I don't like to make waves
so the result is I keep my mouth shut on some things, and post on other things when I am on 4um,
I do not want to antagonize anyone with my views
LP has so many opposite extreme views on every single topic
that I feel free to be totally eccentric there
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 1:22:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#207. To: Rotara, Rhino369, TwentyTwelve, christine, G Edward Griffin (#121)
As if your life depended on it yesterday.

I absolutely, 100%, recommend G. Edward Griffin's book, The Creature From Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve. It's a must read. Beyond being informative, I found it interesting as to current affairs and historically. It's well written, easy to understand, and well referenced throughout. If you are angry now, you will be absolutely fuming when halfway through reading it and beyond livid when finished.
And then you may need to pound a few keys on the old computer to get some steam off. : )

litus posted on 2009-03-22 1:23:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#208. To: FormerLurker (#192)

Do you think the war games planned for that day, and the armada of ships sitting in the Indian Ocean were just there by coincidence?

The war games yes. I don't know about an Armada in the Indian Ocean, care to explain further.

Do you REALLY think a 110 story can collapse about as fast as if it were falling through thin air?

It didn't fall at free fall. All video evidence suggests it fell slower. Free fall would be about 9+ seconds, the video evidence suggests at minimum 13+ seconds more like 15+ in one tower and 17+ in the other.
Plus if demolitions were set it wouldn't fall at free fall either. The buildings collapse at the impact and then collapse down. Even if the collapse was started by demolitions (how the fuck did they aim the planes that well!) it would still have to follow the laws of physics. You can't fake those.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:23:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#209. To: palo verde (#206)
I'm sorry, I was tripping.
Please elaborate on 1) my interesting posts and 2) your eccentric takes on things.
xoxoxox

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:23:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#210. To: litus (#207)
If you are angry now, you will be absolutely fuming when halfway through reading it and beyond livid when finished.

The truth has set many free

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:24:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#211. To: Rotara (#210)
I was already "set free" many years ago, and it created peace and calm.
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-22 1:26:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#212. To: Rhino369 (#201)
The pictures were a massive embarrassment for the Bush admin, and helped start the antiwar movement in moderate political circles.

We haven't pulled out of Iraq or Afghanistan yet, so I don't think that anti- war movement was too successful.
Besides, the southern border is still wide open. Don't you think they'd close it down REALLY well if they truly DIDN'T want a terror attack to occur on US soil? The torture, both photographed and reported, was not to extract "confessions". It was to agitate a response.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 1:27:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#213. To: Rhino369 (#197)
Why are you not at war with it?

I'm not suicidal. When enough people wake up from their slumber, then it will be worth it to go to war, if need be.
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 1:27:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#214. To: Dakmar (#205)
LOL!!!! You are so funnnny Dakmar
I do not know if Goldi will bring LP back
I'd guess chances are 50-50
those raunchy posts in Breaking News by the disruptor could have been straw which broke the camel's back
I am even wondering now if it was our responsibility as posters on the forum
to have tried to have done something about it
but I can't figure out what we could have done?
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 1:28:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#215. To: tom007 (#171)
"They" do not hate us for our freedoms.
Yes,they do. Primarly because we have the freedom to choose to not be Muslims or to come under Muslim laws. Our women can even go shopping without male family escorts without even having to wear Burkas or masks. They can even be doctors and teachers to male children. Those are a few of the big reasons they hate us.
Or are you prepared to claim they would make an exception for America being a non-Muslim country with freedoms to read and watch what we want to read,marry who we want to marry,and worship how we want to worship if we stopped supporting Israel?
BTW,I'd like to see us stop supporting Israel,too. Not because I hate Jews. I don't. I just fail to see what America gets in return for spending billions of dollars a year to prop up a welfare state that does nothing but stab us in the back.
(possibly the most idotic statement ever in the history of the universe).
BullBarack! What part about us being free to not be Muslims is it that you have a hard time understanding?

They hate us for our Lukid Israel party support.
Biggest load of HorseHillary being sold. Israel is such a perfect excuse for Jew haters that if it didn't exist they would have to invent it. Israel also serves as a handy whipping boy for the Arab leaders because they can blame all their problems on Israel. Hitler did this with the Jews,and the blacks are doing it today with whites. You can never go wrong by telling people all their problems are the fault of someone else.
They hate the Jews primarily because they aren't Muslims,just like Christians and most westerners aren't Muslims.
Their goal is to have a world totally under the domination of Islam and Muslim law. Israel is no more than a minor speed bump compared to the rest of the world.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 1:28:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#216. To: palo verde (#214)
I am even wondering now if it was our responsibility as posters on the forum to have tried to have done something about it

It was her responsibility as a website owner/hostess to 1) moderate her website or 2) select others who will.
It became a free for all and joke.
Just like this country is becoming when rules and laws are either selectively enforced or not enforced at all.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 1:30:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#217. To: Critter (#193)

623 architectural and engineering professionals have seen through it:
http://www.ae911truth.org/

45 Civil engineers, only one a Phd. Not very impressive since even most small universities graduate more civies than that every semester. Compared the number of CE's there are in the country, it is statistical noise.
The very fact that site counts people with a BS in electrical engineering makes its a joke. I have a BS in EE, and guess what. I'm no where near an expert, and claiming so is extremely unethical. It makes the site a joke.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:32:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#218. To: Critter, Rhino369 (#176)
Demolition without planes and fire would be too obvious an inside job

Of course,you are right about this. After all,there are no Arabs in NYC,and a Arab hanging around parking garages,driving taxi's or rental trucks,or working in building maintenance is so rare it would be sure to set off alarm bells.
Good thinking!

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 1:32:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#219. To: Rotara (#204)
heheheheheheheheeeeee

Tent City, USA.
Then, you see, that Sacramento, California, throws them out too.
Oh wait, obama is on leno talking about his bowling score. Hahaha. Oh what a riot. /s

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 1:33:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#220. To: FormerLurker (#212)
We haven't pulled out of Iraq or Afghanistan yet, so I don't think that anti- war movement was too successful.

I agree with you Former Lurker
Obama has expanded war in Afghanistan, and let CIA start war in Pakistan
if we wanted to end all the wars, we would have had to have gotten Ron Paul in as President
I actually did hope the anti-war right, and the anti-war left, would unite behind a Ron Paul/Dennis Kucinich ticket
but this is not what happened
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 1:34:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#221. To: Rhino369 (#208)
I don't know about an Armada in the Indian Ocean, care to explain further.

My bad, it was the Gulf of Arabia...
From TIMELINE SURROUNDING SEPTEMBER 11TH -

Sept. 1-10 2001 - In an exercise, called Operation "Swift Sword" and planned for four years, 23,000 British troops are steaming toward Oman. Although the 9-11 attacks caused a hiccup in the deployment, the massive operation was implemented as planned. At the same time two U.S. carrier battle groups arrive on station in the Gulf of Arabia just off the Pakistani coast. Also at the same time, some 17,000 U.S. troops join more than 23,000 NATO troops in Egypt for Operation "Bright Star." All of these forces are in place before the first plane hits the WTC. [Sources: The Guardian; CNN; Fox; The Observer; International Law Professor Francis Boyle, the University of Illinois.]

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 1:34:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#222. To: Critter (#188)
Pete's either still in a hypnotic, coolaid induced state or a shill. I don't know which just yet.

LOL!
Maybe I'm just evil?
Or a communistic spy?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 1:35:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#223. To: sneakypete (#196)
Not only that,but those same conspiracy theories are LOVED by the government because it allows them to dismiss any questions about their conduct as being linked to "those insane conspiracy freaks".
Instead of helping the cause of freedom,all they are doing in hurting it and helping the government.
AND....it does no good at all to argue with them because they are obsessed with every little detail,and have reams of false "Facts" to back up their arguments. What makes it so hard to argue against any conspiracy theory is that the best ones are all believable because there is a basis in fact to all of them.

I agree which is why it pains me to see you buy the conspiracy theory about Obama being born in Kenya. How much legit criticism is being wasted on that silly theory?

For example *I* am the one that started the conspiracy theory Hillary Clinton being behind the crash of JFK Jr's airplane and his death. I started this rumor on FR and used the fact that he had been talking about running for the same Senate seat ("his" family Senate seat) that she was running for,and this is the reason she had a had the airplane rigged to crash. Within a hour this was accepted as the gospel,and I was being called a DNC shill for saying it was made up,and a liar for saying I was the one who made it up. DESPITE the fact that the proof I was the one who made it up was right there on that very thread!

I can believe it. The same thing happens on FR to this day. On the birth conspiracy, a person will merely guess about something, and then a day later its gospel until proven false. Its interesting to see how conspiracy theories form.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:35:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#224. To: palo verde (#220)
but this is not what happened

It would never have been allowed to happen.
Nice to see you again Palo.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 1:35:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#225. To: palo verde (#191)
Pete, you think the poster Mrs Yukon, who chose that name to upset Yukon posted those raunchy articles with malicious intent to harm LP?

Yes. Harassing Yukon while doing it was just a bonus. There was no need to fill breaking news with bogus insanity if all they had been trying to do was cause Yukon grief. They could have just responded to threads he was posting on.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 1:38:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#226. To: Rotara (#200)

What better way to crank up the war machine than to rally the peeps with the New Pearl Harbor ? Does the DHS have something on you ?

You don't think having the two towers instantly fall killing 20,000 would have made a good enough cause for war? Plus I would have used Iraqis.
People would have been pissed enough if they didn't fall, and just got hit by planes.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:38:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#227. To: sneakypete (#215)
Hitler did this with the Jews,and the blacks are doing it today with whites.

And the Israelis (note I did not say Jews) are doing it today to the Palestinians.
How you been pete? Good to see you here...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 1:39:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#228. To: FormerLurker (#212)

We haven't pulled out of Iraq or Afghanistan yet, so I don't think that anti- war movement was too successful.

It lost them the elections in 2006 and 2008, and will lead to the US slowly leaving Iraq, losing all those precious war contracts.

Besides, the southern border is still wide open. Don't you think they'd close it down REALLY well if they truly DIDN'T want a terror attack to occur on US soil?

Their donors needed the cheap labor. And honestly closing the borders wouldn't have prevented 9-11. They came in on visas. I would have used it as an excuse to close the borders. Though.
It does prove that the threat of terrorism is massively overblown. Al Qaeda is much less powerful than we are led to believe.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:42:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#229. To: Rotara (#198)
As bright as you are; I don't get it. How can you be so blind ?

Sometimes the right answer is the simple one,not the one that makes you feel good or vindicated.
This whole thing was planned,executed,and financed by Saudi Arabia.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 1:42:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#230. To: litus (#216)
(Palo) I am even wondering now if it was our responsibility as posters on the forum to have tried to have done something about it
(litus) It was her responsibility as a website owner/hostess to 1) moderate her website or 2) select others who will.
It became a free for all and joke.
Just like this country is becoming when rules and laws are either selectively enforced or not enforced at all.

Hi Litus
Well Pete said Goldi started new job 6 months ago
and I think her job is very demanding
she probably was not around LP very much
and there were no moderators, she was IT
Oddly enough even on the thread under that very raunchy "article" the disruptor posted in Breaking News
the posts on thread were thoughtful and intelligent
but it made the site look like hell that that was the top post in Breaking News
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 1:43:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#231. To: sneakypete (#229)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:44:17 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#232. To: Rhino369 (#226)
Why did they lie about demolishing WTC 7 ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:45:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#233. To: palo verde (#230)
That's why I was saying, she had either choice 1 or 2; if she couldn't do it herself, she certainly should have gotten at least a couple (responsible and reliable) persons who would.
I saw the thread the night before it went down, the title was difficult to miss; beyond poor taste.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 1:45:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#234. To: Rhino369 (#228)
It lost them the elections in 2006 and 2008

"Them"? Many of "them" are still holding onto the reigns of power throughout the Obama administration. Do you really think the Republicans are any different than the Democrats? They are ALL politicians above all else, and 99.9 % of them follow the same masters, and those masters are not the American People...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 1:45:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#235. To: Rhino369 (#228)
Al Qaeda is much less powerful than we are led to believe.

The wars have made it stronger, motivating large numbers of formerly peaceful people to become vengeful fanatics.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 1:47:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#236. To: sneakypete (#229)
This whole thing was planned,executed,and financed by Saudi Arabia.

lol and I think the whole thing was planned, executed, and financed by international gangsters
(altho they had to have help on the inside)
but I don't think Bush or Cheney were complicit, I think they were the targets
I guess some day all the truth will come out
meanwhile it's best for each of us to stick to our guns :)
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 1:48:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#237. To: sneakypete (#229)
This whole thing was planned,executed,and financed by Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia had nothing to gain from it. Israel on the other hand, had EVERYTHING to gain from it, and are STILL reaping the rewards.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 1:49:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#238. To: palo verde (#236)
but I don't think Bush or Cheney were complicit, I think they were the targets

Oy Vey !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:49:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#239. To: palo verde (#236)
I don't think Bush or Cheney were complicit

Then why did they bend over backwards to cover it up, and refused to even investigate the matter until the 9/11 widows pressured them to open up an investigation?
Why did they not allow Sybil Edmonds to speak?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 1:52:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#240. To: Rhino369 (#223)
.....it pains me to see you buy the conspiracy theory about Obama being born in Kenya.

I don't think he was born in Kenya,and have never said I did.
I think he was born in Hawaii,but we won't know this for a fact until he releases the vault copy of his birth certificate,will we?
What I DO believe because it is an established FACT is that he was adopted by his step father and became an Indonesian citizen. Part of this process was rejecting his American citizenship. Despite what the Barry-Bots claim,his mother had the legal right to denounce his US citizeship.
I also know he travled to Pakistan as a Indonesian citizen as an adult,and his name was Barry Soetoro at the time. I also know there has been no explanation whatsoever about how or when he changed his name and obtained US citizenship again.
For all we know,he still had Indonesian citizenship.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 1:53:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#241. To: FormerLurker (#235)

The wars have made it stronger, motivating large numbers of formerly peaceful people to become vengeful fanatics.

I still don't think we have much to fear from them. Its much easier to recruit someone to defend what they think is their homeland, Iraq, and Afghanistan, than to recruit them on a suicide mission inside the United States.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:54:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#242. To: Rotara (#232)
Why did they lie about demolishing WTC 7 ?

I should ask you the same. Why blow up a building with nobody in it, when it clearly wasn't hit by a plane? It has no benefit for the conspiracy, and tons of risk. Most people don't even know what WTC 7 is.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:55:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#243. To: FormerLurker (#227)
And the Israelis (note I did not say Jews) are doing it today to the Palestinians.
Yup,it is a popular game that is played by all because it works so well.
How you been pete?
Getting old and cranky,and I'm not as patient as I used to be.
Good to see you here...
Thanks.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 1:56:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#244. To: litus (#233)
I saw the thread the night before it went down, the title was difficult to miss; beyond poor taste.

yes exactly Litus
you can see why if she came home after a long hard day at work and clicked on LP and saw that
it could have been a final straw
because there is no way to actually stop it
if she bans the disruptor, he comes back with another name and does it again
It may be that she is ready to let LP go ?
or maybe she still wants it ?
that's what I mean about straw which broke the camel's back
if she wants to keep LP she will just take a vacation from it
if she wants to end it, she probably won't put it back on line
She has a right to do what is best for herself
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 1:56:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#245. To: FormerLurker (#234)

"Them"? Many of "them" are still holding onto the reigns of power throughout the Obama administration. Do you really think the Republicans are any different than the Democrats? They are ALL politicians above all else, and 99.9 % of them follow the same masters, and those masters are not the American People...

They are different gangs, but they are really the same in the end. But they really do fight for power. Who ever is in power gets more donations. This is why big business donates to both.
They are owned by the same master, but they play to win.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 1:58:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#246. To: palo verde (#244)
This is the eventuality, however, whenever "authorities" believe they can "rule" arbitrarily. Chaos results.
penny wise and pound foolish.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 1:58:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#247. To: Rhino369 (#242)
Why did they lie about demolishing WTC 7 ?
I should ask you the same.

No seriously.
Why did they demolish WTC 7 and THEN lie about demolishing it ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 1:58:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#248. To: Rhino369 (#228)
It lost them the elections in 2006 and 2008, and will lead to the US slowly leaving Iraq, losing all those precious war contracts.

Not to worry. They will be replaced by reconstruction contracts. The only real difference is it will be Dim-connected firms stealing from the taxpayer instead of RINO-connected firms stealing from the taxpayer.
"and the beat goes on...."

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 1:59:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#249. To: sneakypete (#240)

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 2:00:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#250. To: Rotara (#231)
Being president wasn't good enough for Boy Jorge,he also wants to be a Princess.

BTW,for those of you who don't know,that is Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia that he is swapping spit with,now better known as KING Abdullah.
He is also one of the larges stockholders in Citi-Bank.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 2:01:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#251. To: sneakypete (#240)
I don't think Obama was born in Kenya,and have never said I did.
I think he was born in Hawaii ....

I am with you on this Pete
I don't join the citizenship threads on LP
did this post go thru?

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 2:01:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#252. To: sneakypete (#250)
They make my skin crawl.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 2:02:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#253. To: sneakypete (#240)
What I DO believe because it is an established FACT is that he was adopted by his step father and became an Indonesian citizen. Part of this process was rejecting his American citizenship. Despite what the Barry-Bots claim,his mother had the legal right to denounce his US citizeship.

Its not debatable, a mother cannot denounce US Citizenship. It is also not established he was adopted.
travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

I also know he travled to Pakistan as a Indonesian citizen as an adult,and his name was Barry Soetoro at the time. I also know there has been no explanation whatsoever about how or when he changed his name and obtained US citizenship again.

How do you know he traveled as an Indonesian citizen? How do you know what his name was?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 2:02:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#254. To: sneakypete (#250)
He is also one of the larges stockholders in Citi-Bank.

Oh really?! Isn't that interesting.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 2:02:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#255. To: palo verde (#251)
Are you logged in ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 2:02:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#256. To: FormerLurker (#235)
Al Qaeda is much less powerful than we are led to believe.
The wars have made it stronger, motivating large numbers of formerly peaceful people to become vengeful fanatics.

Absolutely 100% correct!

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 2:02:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#257. To: Rhino369 (#253)
How do you know he traveled as an Indonesian citizen? How do you know what his name was?

Can't even call you doubting rhino.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 2:03:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#258. To: Rotara (#247)

No seriously.
Why did they demolish WTC 7 and THEN lie about demolishing it ?

They didn't. It burned until it collapsed.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 2:03:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#259. To: palo verde (#236)
This whole thing was planned,executed,and financed by Saudi Arabia.
lol and I think the whole thing was planned, executed, and financed by international gangsters

There's a difference?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 2:04:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#260. To: Rhino369 (#258)
No seriously.
Why did they demolish WTC 7 and THEN lie about demolishing it ?
They didn't. It burned until it collapsed.

I'll be in touch. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 2:04:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#261. To: Rhino369 (#258)
Fires Have Never Caused Skyscrapers to Collapse

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

litus posted on 2009-03-22 2:04:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#262. To: sneakypete (#250)
Being president wasn't good enough for Boy Jorge,he also wants to be a Princess.

The cow says...moo!
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-22 2:05:10 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#263. To: Rotara (#257)
Can't even call you doubting rhino.

It should be an easy question to answer. I suspect I know why he, and you believe it. The school paperwork right?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 2:05:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#264. To: Rhino369 (#258)
Excepting the three 9-11 collapses

lolol

litus posted on 2009-03-22 2:05:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#265. To: FormerLurker (#237)
Saudi Arabia had nothing to gain from it. Israel on the other hand, had EVERYTHING to gain from it, and are STILL reaping the rewards.

BullBarack! Saudi Arabia had EVERYTHING to gain from it. Saddam Hussein was never a threat to either Israel OR the US,but he was very much a threat to the House of Saud.
Just like every other tribal leader/king in Arabia,the King there dreamed of being the King of a United Arabia. Saddam Hussein had this same dream,and he had the means and the willpower to do it. We invaded Iraq to protect the House of Saud.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 2:07:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#266. To: Rhino369 (#241)
Its much easier to recruit someone to defend what they think is their homeland, Iraq, and Afghanistan, than to recruit them on a suicide mission inside the United States.

And it is even easier to recruit them to defend their God and religion.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 2:09:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#267. To: litus (#261)
The WTC fire control systems were broken after the collapse. There has never been a skyscraper fire with absolutely no fire suppression systems.
Again let me ask. Why would they blow up an unoccupied building and claim fire if its physically impossible. What possible gain would they have, considering the risk?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 2:12:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#268. To: Rhino369 (#253)
Its not debatable, a mother cannot denounce US Citizenship. It is also not established he was adopted.
travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

That wasn't the law when he was 7 years old.
How do you know he traveled as an Indonesian citizen?
Because Americans weren't allowed to travel to Pakistan then as tourists.
How do you know what his name was?
Because that is his name on the roster of the elementary school he went to in Indonesia.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 2:15:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#269. To: litus (#246)
This is the eventuality, however, whenever "authorities" believe they can "rule" arbitrarily. Chaos results.
penny wise and pound foolish.

this is an interesting post, Litus
I've probably been on 7 forums now
I think they all are governed by whim of forum owner
(lol not by law :)
altho oddly enuf my worst experience was being banned as a disruptor on Liberty Forum
which had a system of self-governance
but some few people figured out how to beat the system
and got me banned as disruptor by "the system"
there were a lot of great posters when I was on Liberty Forum
(even tho I was not on long)
who were swell to me
but it was too nerve-wracking, a few people would hit "disruptor button" to every post I wrote
even if I just said something like "there is a beautiful moon out there tonight"
and the system would then make all my posts invisible, because I was "obscene disruptor"
LOL!
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 2:15:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#270. To: litus (#254)
He is also one of the larges stockholders in Citi-Bank.
Oh really?! Isn't that interesting.

Well,I may have misspoken. He WAS the largest stockholder in Citi-Bank at one time. He could have sold his stock 10 years ago for all I know.
He was also a major stockholder in GM and several other large US corporations. He literally owned and controlled enough US stock belonging to relatives that if he had decided to dump them all on the same day it's possible he could have caused the stock market to crash.
Given that these people always try to marry cousins to keep money and power in the family,it's hard to believe that not all of them are drooling idiots. King Abdullah is clearly world-class smart,though. He got profits as well as influence by investing in western stock markets.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 2:19:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#271. To: Dakmar, ALL (#262)
wow what a beautiful pic of princess phone, Dakmar
I love it
well my doggie wants food and attention
so I wish everyone sweet dreams
and thank you all for your kind hospitality to me
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 2:20:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#272. To: Rhino369 (#267)
Why would they blow up an unoccupied building and claim fire if its physically impossible. What possible gain would they have, considering the risk?

What you are asking are the types of questions that could reasonably be asked IF the individuals or group you are asking are beyond question upright, honest, righteous, and follow the rule of law.

Those qualities and characteristics, however, are noticeably absent from the group of people and individuals who are being questioned.

.gov has gained a great deal more power and control over the sheeple, just for starters.
What does a murderer have to gain by denying his/her involvement? And yes, 3,000 people were murdered that day. You think that honest cops or honest prosecutors just accept the word of a suspect because of his or her denials? Do you believe that cops or prosecutors operate on the belief that a suspect is innocent, and therefore, they look for ways to incorporate the denials into their operations and procedures? No. They don't first assume someone is telling the truth....the assumption, first, is they may be lying.
But in this case, one branch of .gov has "investigated" another branch of .gov with the assumption that the denials of .gov is proof of its innocence.
When the fox is watching the henhouse....the fox controls all.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 2:26:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#273. To: sneakypete (#270)
He WAS the largest stockholder in Citi-Bank at one time. He could have sold his stock 10 years ago for all I know.

It's possible, however, that he did not.
In any event, I'll be keeping this in mind and will investigate that further.
Thanks.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 2:30:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#274. To: sneakypete (#268)

That wasn't the law when he was 7 years old.

Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939) The parents cannot remove a child's citizenship.

Because Americans weren't allowed to travel to Pakistan then as tourists.

Not true, it was just strong discouraged.

Because that is his name on the roster of the elementary school he went to in Indonesia.

Yes, school documentation from 1970's Indonesia is obviously much more official than Hawaiian certificates of live birth. The school would have put down whatever he was registered as by his step father.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 2:32:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#275. To: palo verde (#269)
I think they all are governed by whim of forum owner

Because, often times, they seem to become tyrants....sometimes just lazy.
In either case, all forums have "rules"; not enforcing them leads to chaos; arbitrary enforcement ends "actual rules" and also results in chaos.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 2:34:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#276. To: litus (#272)

What you are asking are the types of questions that could reasonably be asked IF the individuals or group you are asking are beyond question upright, honest, righteous, and follow the rule of law.
Those qualities and characteristics, however, are noticeably absent from the group of people and individuals who are being questioned.

No, these questions are the type that can be asked if the people in question are sane. Even if they are evil liars, it makes absolutely no sense to blow up WTC 7. There is absolutely no reason to, and plenty of risk in doing so.

.gov has gained a great deal more power and control over the sheeple, just for starters.

By blowing up WTC 7? No it didn't. Even if I accepted the government did 9-11, blowing up WTC7 would still be crazy.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 2:36:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#277. To: Rhino369 (#276)
I'm didn't say .gov blew up WTC; I'm saying I don't believe their story.
It's fantastical fiction.
You think what we are experiencing in the economy is accidental, too?
It was engineered.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 2:43:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#278. To: Critter (#176)
Demolition without planes and fire would be too obvious and inside job.

Not only that; the impaling planes resulted in a world-wide sensation, something members of the Tribe are past masters at creating, compared to a building just catching on fire or falling down. Organized Jewry needed that kind of spectacular false flag event around which to scapegoat and focus blame on bin Laden and the Taleban who were allowing Arab fighters to train in Afghanistan to help Palestinians get back lands stolen by Israeli terrorists to form their illegal state. Zionist propagandists, particularly their media hyenas, were thus immediately able to "form" and stampede a Bush-Blair lynch mob to neutralize Afghanistan and thus eliminate one of Israel's enemies. Even if Bush was not part of the plot this move made him look like he was in charge and doing something (and of course remain in the good graces of the Israeli lobby which stops at nothing to protect its illegal "homeland").

Tatarewicz posted on 2009-03-22 2:44:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#279. To: Rhino369 (#173)
The demolition hypothesis doesn't even make sense.

The main objective of the spectacular 9/11 false flag operation was to stampede America into a war with Afghanistan.
Bringing the towers down with explosives put insurance cash into Silverstein's pockets rather than having him spend more than the buildings were worth taking them down in an orderly, regulation fashion.
The US may have the best materials engineers, etc., but they were not given the chance to examine the crime scene; evidence was promptly and illegally removed and sent as scrap to China.
See in Freedom4um's 9/11 category: 9/llUAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has Crashed Into WTC MSNBC, particularly "Itistoolate's" link: http://how911wasdone.blogspot.com/

Tatarewicz posted on 2009-03-22 3:41:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#280. To: sneakypete (#265)
Saudi Arabia had EVERYTHING to gain from it. Saddam Hussein was never a threat to either Israel OR the US,but he was very much a threat to the House of Saud

Well Iraq is a different story. I'm talking about the general direction this country has taken since 9/11, and how Israel benefits from it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 3:45:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#281. To: sneakypete (#265)
Sneak...I spent a whole 'nother thread being logical with them and it didn't work...
You're arguing with people who do not believe that a planes impact, exposion and ensuing fires caused more than even MINIMAL damage. IN some cases, some believe the planes were remote controlled. Now, they cannot tell you exactly HOW the Towers were brought down only that the catastrophy that we witnessed 9/11 wasn't enough.
You're also arguing with people who believe that a well financed international terrorist group doesn't exist.
Good luck, mon frer..

war posted on 2009-03-22 8:28:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#282. To: litus (#273)
He WAS the largest stockholder in Citi-Bank at one time. He could have sold his stock 10 years ago for all I know.
It's possible, however, that he did not.

It's possible he even owns more. After all,he IS the King now,and Citi-Bank was a part of the taxpayer bailout.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 8:47:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#283. To: Rhino369 (#274)
Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939) The parents cannot remove a child's citizenship.
Indonesia sure seemed to think so,because they didn't (don't?) allow dual citizenships.
Because Americans weren't allowed to travel to Pakistan then as tourists.
Not true, it was just strong discouraged.
The government of Pakistan would issue tourist visas to American citizens traveling under an American passport back then? Remember,he was traveling as a tourist,not a journalist or employee of a business in Pakistan.

Because that is his name on the roster of the elementary school he went to in Indonesia.
Yes, school documentation from 1970's Indonesia is obviously much more official than Hawaiian certificates of live birth.
Which came first,the birth or the school enrollment?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 8:51:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#284. To: sneakypete (#283)
Which came first,the birth or the school enrollment?

Also of note on that school enrollment form is that his place of birth is listed as Hawaii.

war posted on 2009-03-22 8:59:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#285. To: FormerLurker (#280)
Well Iraq is a different story. I'm talking about the general direction this country has taken since 9/11, and how Israel benefits from it.

If Israel benefits from it that result is secondary. The prime reason to invade Iraq was to protect Saudi Arabia in two ways. One,placing the blame for the attacks on Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia took the heat off them,and two,removing Hussein from power took the military pressure off them.
You watch,if you are still alive 20 years from now you will see King Abdullah in place as the King of Arabia/Middle Eastern Economic Zone Regional Manager,and Israel the banking center of the Middle East. All the Arab leaders may rant and rave about "those dirty,evil Jews!" to the illiterate goat-humper on the street,but when push comes to shove and they are looking for a place to bank their money,they hate and mistrust each other more than they do the Jews.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 9:00:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#286. To: war (#281)
Yeah,I know. It's always a waste of time to argue with a true-believer about their religion.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 9:01:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#287. To: war (#284)
Also of note on that school enrollment form is that his place of birth is listed as Hawaii.

I've never believed otherwise. It's the only thing that makes sense. After all,why would the father fly his honkie wife who was pregnant with his half-breed son all the way to Kenya for her to give birth,when his own father hated honkies and didn't want him to even marry her?
Not only that,but she was nothing more than a booty call to him anyhow. When he left Hawaii to go to Harvard he left her and his son behind and took up with and I THINK married another white woman while at Harvard.
The whole "born in Kenya" think never passed the logic test.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 9:06:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#288. To: sneakypete, litus (#282)
[litus] He WAS the largest stockholder in Citi-Bank at one time.
[sneak] It's possible he even owns more. After all,he IS the King now,and Citi-Bank was a part of the taxpayer bailout.

I have a hard copy of Citi's major shareholders at work - and which I will check tomorrow - but I don't recall either Bush or Bush, Sr. as being on that list. There is a Saudi Arabian on the list, IIRC, but most of the major shareholders are pension plans and funds, again, IIRC. One of the Gulf Emirates, Abu Dhabi, took out a HUGE snick of C last fall...$7bln, I think.

war posted on 2009-03-22 9:08:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#289. To: sneakypete (#282)
Abu Dhabi Becomes Largest Citigroup Shareholder with $7.5B Investment, Bailout Comes Amidst Subprime Mortgage Crisis, Record-High Oil Prices

war posted on 2009-03-22 9:10:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#290. To: war (#288)
I have a hard copy of Citi's major shareholders at work - and which I will check tomorrow - but I don't recall either Bush or Bush, Sr. as being on that list.

We weren't talking about anybody in the Bush family. We were talking about members of the Saud family.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 9:11:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#291. To: sneakypete, litus (#288)
Aha,.,,it wasn't Booosh but a Saudi Arabian you were referring too...sorry...carry on...

war posted on 2009-03-22 9:11:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#292. To: sneakypete (#290)
I just realized my error and I apologize...time to go bike...have a good day...

war posted on 2009-03-22 9:12:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#293. To: war (#289)
Abu Dhabi Becomes Largest Citigroup Shareholder with $7.5B Investment, Bailout Comes Amidst Subprime Mortgage Crisis, Record-High Oil Prices

They also are the ones that got the huge government contract to protect our ports. The Bush Crime Family has some serious financial connections with Abu Dhabi.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 9:14:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#294. To: sneakypete (#290)
We weren't talking about anybody in the Bush family. We were talking about members of the Saud family.

Upon further review, Boosh Sr sold this country out to Saudi Arabia and Israel in 1991 and his son sealed the deal...so maybe through some bastardized form of a pig fucker marriage they do...
Late...

war posted on 2009-03-22 9:14:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#295. To: war (#289)
BTW,isn't it odd how the market can crash to the point where stocks are dirt cheap,and then somebody connected to the government insiders in DC can buy up a ton of the cheap stock right before it is bailed out and increases in value?
I'm sure that was just a coinkydink,though. If I were a suspiscious person,I MIGHT think the whole thing was engineered.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 9:16:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#296. To: sneakypete (#215)
They" do not hate us for our freedoms.
Yes,they do.

Well OK Then, all one billion of them.
Such certitude, such arrogance.
They hate us because we're not Muslim?
So are we supposed to be Shi'ia, Sunnia, Druse or any of the other many sects in the Muslim world?
Or would "they " still hate us?
Amazing that you know all of their thoughts and emotions. All billion of them.
All they hallmarks of an American ignorant bigot, so typical of citizen who should not have a passport.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-22 9:47:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#297. To: sneakypete (#218)
Of course,you are right about this. After all,there are no Arabs in NYC,and a Arab hanging around parking garages,driving taxi's or rental trucks,or working in building maintenance is so rare it would be sure to set off alarm bells.

Is that a roundabout admission that it wouldn't take hundreds of highly skilled workers several months to rig the towers for demolition?
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 10:22:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#298. To: Rhino369 (#267)
Again let me ask. Why would they blow up an unoccupied building and claim fire if its physically impossible. What possible gain would they have, considering the risk?

It was supposed to come down with the towers, and be blamed on the tower collapse, but something went wrong. They still tried to blame it on the tower collapse, in case you weren't listening early on.
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 10:28:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#299. To: Rhino369 (#242)
Why blow up a building with nobody in it,

You do know that mountains of evidence in numerous multi billion dollar wall street scandals were housed in the offices of the SEC in wtc7, right?
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 10:33:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#300. To: Rhino369 (#217) (Edited)
My statistical noise sounds so much more intelligent and informed than your shills for the official fairy tale:

Beware! This guy is now prowling 4um:

Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-22 10:37:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#301. To: sneakypete, palo verde (#77)
"Mrs Yukon" (obviously a poster trying to yank Yukon's chain) posted several pretty raunchy articles and posts. It was obviously someone only interested in causing trouble.

I posted an objection to an antisemitic thread posted by this Mrs. Yukon.
She replied and mentioned something about freedom4um and hinted she was at LP to make trouble.
I doubt that was true. I think "she" was just trying to start a food fight between LP and this forum, to see who would fall for it. She might have been a Leftie, might have been a Klown fallen on hard times.
There was something kind of Klownish about the Mrs. Yukon posts. Don't get me wrong, I always thought the Klowns were funny when they went after the more ridiculous crap at FR. And they did a public service by exposing some of the online fraud and misrepresentations by various posters at FR with their fake military charities and such.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 10:42:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#302. To: TooConservative (#301)
I posted an objection to an antisemitic thread posted by this Mrs. Yukon.

Below is the url for a very nice forum that may be well suited for LP members.

http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/latestcomments.cgi

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 10:49:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#303. To: Cynicom (#302)
Articles look okay, looks like a small number of posters there.
I'm here because I know a lot of handles here from LP and from the old days at FR.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 10:52:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#304. To: TooConservative (#303)
I'm here because I know a lot of handles here from LP and from the old days at FR.

Well, welcome.
However trying to censor this forum will bring you much grief. By your own admission you report people for what you discern as anti semetic, this smacks of total censorship and that is WHY most of us are here.
Welcome to 4um, leave the censorship outside please.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 10:56:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#305. To: Cynicom (#304)
However trying to censor this forum will bring you much grief.

How exactly will you bring me grief?

By your own admission you report people for what you discern as anti semetic, this smacks of total censorship and that is WHY most of us are here.

I was merely describing a thread at LP. It was pretty outrageous.
If people want to criticize Jews or Israel or neocon influence on American policy, that's okay with me if there is some factual basis. But insane rantings over "the jooz" is a detriment to any forum IMO. It's probably even more in bad taste to post such threads on a forum run by a Jewish person. I tend to think that is deliberate provocation. You should always keep in mind there are fanatics and shutins and nutjobs that will make it their purpose in life to drive a forum owner nuts trying to police their forum against harassment or bogus threads. We've all seen it before on these various forums. Personally, I don't like to see good forums disappear because of griefers and obsessed nutjobs.
Anyway, I wasn't so much commenting on antisemitism as I was over the apparent baiting of Goldi and how the Mrs. Yukon poster was making it appear that she was trying to poach LP posters to drag them over here.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 11:11:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#306. To: TooConservative (#305)
If people want to criticize Jews or Israel or neocon influence on American policy, that's okay with me if there is some factual basis.

Sorry, that still smacks of censorship and not allowed here.
Most of us are well aware of how FR LP and others are run and operated. This is not true here. Any and all attempts to report or censor anyone will bring you grief. There is no leeway on that subject.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 11:17:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#307. To: palo verde (#230)
LP: Cunt Nigger Faggot Slut Terroist
Oddly enough even on the thread under that very raunchy "article" the disruptor posted in Breaking News the posts on thread were thoughtful and intelligent but it made the site look like hell that that was the top post in Breaking News Love, Palo

Heya' Palo,

I just dropped by to say hi :^). Just so happens I saved that thread. Well, not saved exactly, an almost-up-to-date version was in my cache. I was up early, saw ODS response to me but was just going to let the thread die (the following is from then). Then Willie bumped it up with a reply to ODS. The usual drivel. When I saw I saw Willie had bumped it up, I figured what the hell, I posted the following (at the end of the thread where it belongs, if it shows that is) in response to ODS. The thread was gone in a few minutes. No great loss there, or really the whole site when you get down to it. I don't blame her if she's through with it, who needs that sort of aggravation anyway? Of course, the reason the site had so much trouble was her longstanding dishonesty in handling the place. She somehow, while claiming not to know much about what was going on, usually managed to side with the worst people against the best. The only exceptions I remember was when she got backed into a corner and could help it. She has only herself to blame for that. And so it goes on the web, and in real life too.

Nice to see you again.

Blogs
See other Blogs Articles

Title: XXXX XXXXX XXXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX
Source: GLC
URL Source: http://www.glc.org
Published: Mar 19, 2009
Author: GLC
Post Date: 2009-03-19 22:39:05 by Mrs Yukon
36 Comments

Buy my guns.

FAIR USE NOTICE: The above may be copyrighted material, and the use of it on LibertyPost.org may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available on a non-profit basis for educational and discussion purposes only. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in 17 USC § 107. For more information go to: www.law.cornell.edu/ uscode/17/107.shtml">www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.

Post Comment

Top 66; Page Up 66; Full Thread 66; Page Down 66; Bottom/Latest
1. To: Mrs Yukon (#0)
Brian, You should have waited 'till tomorrow.
It then would have taken the mod 'till Sunday eve or even Monday eve to ban you.
WhiteSands posted on 2009-03-19 22:43:25 ET Reply Trace
2. To: Mrs Yukon (#0)
I should have put your idiotic crap on my bozo filter before.
For Christ's sake, grow up.
Willie Green posted on 2009-03-19 22:43:56 ET Reply Trace
3. To: Willie Green (#2)

For Christ's sake, grow up.

It's acceptable at freedom from dummies.
WhiteSands posted on 2009-03-19 22:45:26 ET Reply Trace
4. To: Willie Green, ALL (#2)
I'm done with this site. I came here to read enlightning material and I got crap. Think I'll start my own site. The nut jobs have taken over.
new order 001 posted on 2009-03-19 22:46:52 ET Reply Trace
5. To: WhiteSands (#1)

Brian, You should have waited 'till tomorrow.
It then would have taken the mod 'till Sunday eve or even Monday eve to ban you.

No. I figured out months ago if you only do a couple crazy threads a day, Goldie doesn't find you. I can post this one at a time for months and no big deal. If I post ten in one day she'll find me.
I've another name I post on regularly. anyone care to guess. You won't be able to. Too many of you take the poster seriously.
Mrs Yukon posted on 2009-03-19 22:52:01 ET Reply Trace
6. To: new order 001 (#4)
If you leave, then Mrs Yukon will have accomplished her goal.
Announcing that your are leaving leads to suspicions that you are an accomplice of Mrs. Yukon's, hoping to influence others to leave as well.
If you're truly fed up with idiots like Mrs. Yukon, simply put them on your bozo filter. That's why it was created.
Willie Green posted on 2009-03-19 22:52:14 ET Reply Trace
7. To: Mrs Yukon (#5)
Mrs Padlock?
WhiteSands posted on 2009-03-19 22:57:14 ET Reply Trace
8. To: Willie Green (#6)

If you leave, then Mrs Yukon will have accomplished her goal. Announcing that your are leaving leads to suspicions that you are an accomplice of Mrs. Yukon's, hoping to influence others to leave as well.
If you're truly fed up with idiots like Mrs. Yukon, simply put them on your bozo filter. That's why it was created.

I have no idea as to whom anyone her is in the real world. I was linked to this
site a few years back by malador when I met him thru a mutual friend
not related to LP or any of the other supposed freedom sites. I haven't heard from said friend in a couple of years so i don't even know if he even visits the place any more.

new order 001 posted on 2009-03-19 23:01:04 ET Reply Trace
9. To: Mrs Yukon, Goldi-Lox (#0)
Cleanup in aisle 3.
out damned spot posted on 2009-03-19 23:05:11 ET Reply Trace
10. To: new order 001 (#4)
If all of the good people would stay instead of run off, this would be the #1 site for politics.
out damned spot posted on 2009-03-19 23:06:07 ET Reply Trace
11. To: out damned spot (#10)

If all of the good people would stay instead of run off, this would be the #1 site for politics.

It's hard because with only one active mod, we get many weird posters that last for many months.

WhiteSands posted on 2009-03-19 23:07:50 ET Reply Trace
12. To: out damned spot (#10)
manners - free speech isn't for everyone !

byeltsin posted on 2009-03-19 23:08:26 ET (1 image) Reply Trace
13. To: WhiteSands, ALL (#11)

It's hard because with only one active mod, we get many weird posters that last for many months.

That is the point. If you are going to run a site that has rules then you need to
have a few people that you can trust to help manage it or make the site
a joke free for all. the last one has been what I have seen the most of the last
6 months or so.
new order 001 posted on 2009-03-19 23:10:54 ET Reply Trace
14. To: new order 001 (#13)
I know how you feel.
Freedom requires morality.
The flip side is a heavily modded site such as FR!
WhiteSands posted on 2009-03-19 23:13:53 ET Reply Trace
15. To: new order 001 (#8)

I have no idea as to whom anyone her is in the real world. I was linked to this site a few years back by malador when I met him thru a mutual friend not related to LP or any of the other supposed freedom sites. I haven't heard from said friend in a couple of years so i don't even know if he even visits the place any more.

Well I'm afraid that I viewed malador as an emotionally disturbed disruptor as well.
If you'd like, you can view this thread where I got fed up with his rhetorical games and judge for yourself.
But if you're also fed up with that kind of adolescent behavior here, simply place those who offend you on your "bozo filter" (under the setup menu) and you'll be able to view and reply to the threads almost as if they're not even here. It makes LP a lot more pleasant forum when you can choose which idiots you don't want to see.
;^)
Willie Green posted on 2009-03-19 23:16:16 ET Reply Trace
16. To: new order 001, out damned spot, whitesands (#13)

It's hard because with only one active mod, we get many weird posters that last for many months.

Happy2BMe-OnLP posted on 2009-03-19 23:25:38 ET (1 image) Reply Trace
17. To: Willie Green (#15)

Well I'm afraid that I viewed malador as an emotionally disturbed disruptor as well. If you'd like, you can view this thread where I got fed up with his rhetorical games and judge for yourself.
But if you're also fed up with that kind of adolescent behavior here, simply place those who offend you on your "bozo filter" (under the setup menu) and you'll be able to view and reply to the threads almost as if they're not even here. It makes LP a lot more pleasant forum when you can choose which idiots you don't want to see.
;^)

I do not judge people on their politics(except dimrats :-)). In-fact I try to
judge people by their actions. Even the convict who has been released
can be an interesting and upstanding citizen if they have the right mind to be
that way. Yes I have a few on bozo and well i'll have to add a few more it looks
like. I just wish the system would keep me logged in instead of having to
log in after a couple of days. Some times i forget and I end up seeing the
loons posts and well it kinda gets my goat if you know what i mean.
new order 001 posted on 2009-03-19 23:30:56 ET Reply Trace
18. To: new order 001 (#17)

Some times i forget and I end up seeing the loons posts and well it kinda gets my goat if you know what i mean

I know.
Not all my bozoed stay bozoed either.
If I hit "home" in the LP upper left corner some reappear!

WhiteSands posted on 2009-03-19 23:34:46 ET Reply Trace
19. To: new order 001 (#17)
Yeah, the system makes me login once a week also.
But it isn't too bad... I use the "remember password" feature of my browser, so I can just login with a couple of clicks without even having to remember my own screen name and password.
Willie Green posted on 2009-03-19 23:39:18 ET Reply Trace
20. To: Willie Green (#15)

But if you're also fed up with that kind of adolescent behavior here, simply place those who offend you on your "bozo filter" (under the setup menu) and you'll be able to view and reply to the threads almost as if they're not even here. It makes LP a lot more pleasant forum when you can choose which idiots you don't want to see.

Most excellent advice!
We all rub some folks wrong it seems. Bozo - poof - their stupid posts don't show. And folks who don't care for me can just do the same to my stupid posts --- the bozo/ignore feature is a great tool AND IT WORKS BOTH WAYS.!
JLO posted on 2009-03-19 23:40:05 ET (1 image) Reply Trace
21. To: Willie Green (#15)

Well I'm afraid that I viewed malador as an emotionally disturbed disruptor as well. If you'd like, you can view this thread where I got fed up with his rhetorical games and judge for yourself.
But if you're also fed up with that kind of adolescent behavior here, simply place those who offend you on your "bozo filter"

Good for you Willie! You are still the biggest nitwit on the web! Did you add him next to Merc? You pussy.
Go Pat Go my ass.
kUSS posted on 2009-03-19 23:40:36 ET Reply Trace
22. To: out damned spot, Goldi-Lox (#10)

If all of the good people would stay instead of run off, this would be the #1 site for politics.

There are quite a few good people here ods and goldi knows it, but if she continues to ignore these trashy posts and threads, they won't be around much longer.
Murron posted on 2009-03-20 00:00:02 ET Reply Trace
23. To: kUSS (#21)

Good for you Willie! You are still the biggest nitwit on the web! Did you add him next to Merc? You pussy.
Go Pat Go my ass.

Mercuria was never on my bozo filter, numnutz...
But hey, you don't have to take my word for it,
I'll put you on it too and you can see for yourself who you're lumped in with.
Willie Green posted on 2009-03-20 00:03:57 ET Reply Trace
24. To: out damned spot, Goldi-Lox (#22)

If all of the good people would stay instead of run off, this would be the #1 site for politics.

I also meant to add, this was once a great site for the intire family, of all races, but not anymore, her bozo filter just holds so many and at this rate it won't take long to fill them.
good night!
Murron posted on 2009-03-20 00:04:13 ET Reply Trace
25. To: new order 001 (#4)
Were it up to me, there'd have been some serious quality control around here a while ago.
thoughtomator posted on 2009-03-20 00:08:43 ET Reply Trace
26. To: Willie Green (#23)

Mercuria was never on my bozo filter, numnutz... But hey, you don't have to take my word for it,

It is with great sorrow that I've decided to place her on my "bozo list" for being a disruptor.
You can lie to yourself coward, but not to me.

I'll put you on it too and you can see for yourself who you're lumped in with

Like I said, a total pussy if ever I saw one.
Your moral cowardice is really on display you know. Yet you think you can hide it? What a remarkable fool you are.

kUSS posted on 2009-03-20 00:21:06 ET Reply Trace
27. To: Mrs Yukon (#0)
Why are you trying to harm this important news source,are you an agent of the far left?Its cowardly and pathetic and you should feel a bit dirty afterwards.Isn't it beneath you or do you loath yourself?
MJS posted on 2009-03-20 01:08:03 ET Reply Trace
28. To: WhiteSands (#7)

Mrs Padlock?

That's comedy...bravo.
kc Arab posted on 2009-03-20 01:08:31 ET Reply Trace
29. To: MJS (#27)

Why are you trying to harm this important news source,are you an agent of the far left?

I'm a Colonel in the Obama Defense Force Cyber Squad.
Mrs Yukon posted on 2009-03-20 01:14:28 ET Reply Trace
30. To: WhiteSands (#7)

Mrs Padlock?

No that guy is serious.
Mrs Yukon posted on 2009-03-20 01:14:53 ET Reply Trace
31. To: Mrs Yukon (#5)
Gee, smart guy, Mcain_Rocks ...real hard to guess the idiots who think their "sarcasm" is some enlightened bright spot...what ever, nothing but a disruptor troll with no respect for others.
Slavik_Avenger posted on 2009-03-20 02:06:44 ET Reply Trace
32. To: MJS (#27)
Hi Mrs Yukon...another one to bozo.
Slavik_Avenger posted on 2009-03-20 02:08:12 ET Reply Trace
33. To: Mrs Yukon (#0)
Mrs. Yukon, what's it like being married to an asshole? Have you let yourself go, resigning yourself to the certitude of no man ever sexually or emotionally satisfying you again? 'Tis a pity. You could have done much better.
VVV posted on 2009-03-20 02:38:11 ET Reply Trace
34. To: WhiteSands (#11)
I know, WS. It's sometimes a bitter pill to swallow. The biggest drop was due the anti-war zealots. They weren't content to be merely anti-war, they had to dis the troops as well. Regardless of how one felt about the Iraq war, the dissing of our troops was strictly out of left field. They cost us alot of brilliant posters. .
It seems that each time we reach a certain goal, the idjits enter and cause this site to fold.
It really angers me.
Otoh, I understand and agree that Mods are a subject to avoid. Look what became of FR because of the nazi Mods.
It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.
out damned spot posted on 2009-03-20 03:44:07 ET Reply Trace
35. To: thoughtomator (#25)
You have to remember that Goldi is just one person. She works for her living, unlike JR who syphons from the shills, and she has health issues as well.
I understand her resistance to a Mod squad. Most of us have been guilty of some offense by the FR Mod squad.
I applaud her for it. I don't know what the answer is.

out damned spot posted on 2009-03-20 03:50:06 ET Reply Trace
36. To: kUSS (#21)
Willie is a well respected member of this site.
out damned spot posted on 2009-03-20 03:52:13 ET Reply Trace
Top 66; Page Up 66; Full Thread 66; Page Down 66; Bottom/Latest

[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Donate] [Help] [FAQ]

kUSS posted on 2009-03-22 11:37:43 ET (3 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#308. To: All (#307)

Trying this...

kUSS posted on 2009-03-22 11:38:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#309. To: Cynicom (#306)
Any and all attempts to report or censor anyone will bring you grief. There is no leeway on that subject.

Again, what 'grief' do you claim you inflict on other posters here? I'm curious. And how do you imagine that I would be in a position to "censor" anyone?
What you are saying then is that there is absolutely no censorship here, nothing that can cause a thread or a post or a private mail to be removed? Or a poster to be suspended or banned?
If true, that would be a first in my experience.
Quoting 4um's own home page: "Consistent with these two fundamental unalienable rights, this forum constitutes the private property of its owners and, as such, allows for the exercise of our right to freedom of association and freedom of non-association, based on our preferences. Therefore, regarding banning policies of this forum, as they relate to the protection of private property, the owners reserve the right to suspend or terminate the posting privileges of guests on this forum at our discretion."
So, strangely enough, the forum owner does suspend or ban people based on their posts and the forum owner is free to do so on an arbitrary basis (not subject to the opinions of any forum members). Which is exactly what I expect on any forum, especially political forums.
I hope you're not too shocked by this news that 4um does reserve the right to censor and I have no doubt they are forced to from time to time.
Now that you've tried to threaten me with "grief" or intimidate me with your own posts apparently due to your concern that I might someday flag a moderator for some reason, do you actually know anything about LP's outage? I was merely contributing some info about LP, the Mrs Yukon thing, something mentioned by several other posters on this thread.
My understanding was that christine is the moderator and owner here. I know Christine is the one who authorized me to post here via email. Am I mistaken? Are you the moderator and/or owner of this forum?

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 11:43:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#310. To: TooConservative (#309)
I posted an objection to an antisemitic thread posted by this Mrs. Yukon.

Sir, your own words above, not mine.
You take it upon yourself to decide what is anti semetic and that smacks of Lucys, FR and LP. That is why we are here.
Indeed Christine owns and operates this place and does NOT allow anyone to censor input. If you like, get yourself off on the right foot with all of us by lodging a complaint with Christine.
Third grade tattle tale will get you well known right away.
Again, welcome to the 4um but do not expect to play by FR and LP rules.
You do not like what I post, ignore me. Someone posts anti semetic, ignore it. dont try to censor, it wont work.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 11:59:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#311. To: nooz (#103)
But did the sheep listen? Noooooo-ooooo-ooooo. Too late now. Mandatory 'shear'vice is here. No little moonpie-eye left behind.

I hope enough people refuse to "volunteer" to make the politicians fear for their lives if they push it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 11:59:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#312. To: palo verde (#147)
Thanks palo.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 12:07:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#313. To: James Deffenbach (#311)
I hope enough people refuse to "volunteer" to make the politicians fear for their lives if they push it.

When you read the bill, you see that 'this plan' is going right into the schools. Quite Orwellian. The bill states protest is illegal. So, what happens if a parent pulls their child out of school? Well there's a plan for 'drop-outs' too. This thing is incredible.
So is this thing: www.thegrandawakening.com/

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 12:11:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#314. To: TooConservative, Rhino369 (#305)
Anyway, I wasn't so much commenting on antisemitism as I was over the apparent baiting of Goldi and how the Mrs. Yukon poster was making it appear that she was trying to poach LP posters to drag them over here.

I think it was just Buckaroo harassing and "spanking" Goldi with another one of his ID's, being precipitated by another one of her antics. Face it... she does do stuff that is sort of underhanded and irritating. I believe Mrs Yukon miraculously appeared after Goldi set up Rhino and banned him. And this bragging about multiple ID's seemed very familiar.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-22 12:23:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#315. To: Cynicom (#310)
You take it upon yourself to decide what is anti semetic and that smacks of Lucys, FR and LP. That is why we are here.

Because you all got banned for antisemitism at those forums? Somehow, I doubt it. FWIW, I got banned from FR because some Jewish posters didn't like that I was insisting that Ron Paul wanted to cut all foreign aid to all countries when they were trying to pretend that he was antisemitic and was actually only trying to cut aid to Israel. So I am well acquainted with that kind of thing. But the fact that I was railroaded and mistreated that way by dishonest persons hammering the Abuse button doesn't mean I'll accept without question when people post blood libel material if they have no proof to back it up.

If you like, get yourself off on the right foot with all of us by lodging a complaint with Christine.

Hmmm...I'm just trying to discern whether you are the official spokesman for Christine or the official spokesman for all 4um posters.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 12:25:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#316. To: mininggold (#314)
I think it was just Buckaroo harassing and "spanking" Goldi with another one of his ID's, being precipitated by another one of her antics.

Could be. There are others one might suspect as well.

Face it... she does do stuff that is sort of underhanded and irritating.

I think what appears to be inconsistency is, in part, simply that she doesn't spend her entire life obsessing over her forum. I thought it was clear enough that she sometimes ignores it for days at a time. Neglect isn't malice. And no moderator is ever entirely consistent or even objective in their standards.

I believe Mrs Yukon miraculously appeared after Goldi set up Rhino and banned him. And this bragging about multiple ID's seemed very familiar.

Goldi never seemed to have the technical sophistication (or maybe just the time and interest) to really police her posters' IP addresses and keep banned people banned. So you had a majority of posters who generally lived by the rules and you had some disruptors and malcontent types who did their best to break the rules and ruin it for everyone. It's a shame those types probably have succeeded in getting her to pull the plug on it.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 12:32:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#317. To: James Deffenbach (#312)
You are welcome, Jimmy
Your posts are intelligent, I appreciate reading them
also I love your tagline
it speaks to my heart
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 12:49:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#318. To: TooConservative (#316)
excellent post TC
you hit all the bases
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 12:51:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#319. To: palo verde (#318)
Always a pleasure to hear from you, palo. :)

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 12:55:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#320. To: TooConservative, mininggold (#316)
(TooConservative) Goldi never seemed to have the technical sophistication (or maybe just the time and interest) to really police her posters' IP addresses and keep banned people banned. So you had a majority of posters who generally lived by the rules and you had some disruptors and malcontent types who did their best to break the rules and ruin it for everyone.
It's a shame those types probably have succeeded in getting her to pull the plug on it.

Hi TC
As I said above, you wrote a good post
I am wondering if you think Goldi pulled the plug, or this is a vacation on her part
I don't know
I'm still inclined to think after she has time for lots of peace, she may want her forum again?
Love, Palo
Hi Mining Gold, nice to see you

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 13:00:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#321. To: TooConservative (#319)
thank you sweetie
same here
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 13:01:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#322. To: palo verde (#321)
Welcome back! You've been missed.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-22 13:02:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#323. To: palo verde (#321)
Sweetie...Goldi let that place go to hell...if you have rules then enforce them equally otherwise why bother to have them? I once got a "time out" for laughing at a joke about Ronald Reagan. Yet, people who capriciously and maliciously use the word "nigger" don't even get a sniff. LP was doomed to collapse under its own weight.
Here you don't seem to have that problem. There does not appear to be any rules so you know what yer gittin'. That's fine with me.

war posted on 2009-03-22 13:10:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#324. To: Cynicom (#310)

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 13:13:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#325. To: sneakypete, war (#295)
,isn't it odd how the market can crash to the point where stocks are dirt cheap,and then somebody connected to the government insiders in DC can buy up a ton of the cheap stock right before it is bailed out and increases in value?
I'm sure that was just a coinkydink,though. If I were a suspiscious person,I MIGHT think the whole thing was engineered.

Exactly. And don't forget, the SEC ruling, "emergency order" issued only for a "protected class" of stocks....of course, it's it coincides with an almost identical list of companies and banks which have received bailout money.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 13:21:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#326. To: IndieTX, sneakypete (#39)
That does not remove the complicity from Chimperor's hands anymore than Omessiah's.

You're 100% correct. I'm just trying to yank the chains of those that believe everything they see on the nightly news.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 13:24:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#327. To: TooConservative (#305)
insane rantings over "the jooz"

Fuck the Jewish power structure in America and fuck people that say 'the jooz'.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 13:29:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#328. To: kUSS (#307)
...The thread was gone in a few minutes. No great loss there, or really the whole site when you get down to it.
I don't blame her if she's through with it, who needs that sort of aggravation anyway?
Of course, the reason the site had so much trouble was her longstanding dishonesty in handling the place. She somehow, while claiming not to know much about what was going on, usually managed to side with the worst people against the best. The only exceptions I remember was when she got backed into a corner and could help it. She has only herself to blame for that. And so it goes on the web, and in real life too.
Nice to see you again.

Hi my sweet love
Nice to see you again too
I have zero desire to bash Goldi, I left the sit when she banned the Ron Paul articles
but I did come back
A site doesn't have to be perfect to be a good site
same with a forum owner
I don't know what makes a good site, and each has personal taste in this hence all the various forums
DIGG didn't work for me when I left LP, because I couldn't figure out how to have a conversation on there
Also at that time I had to prove I was a human being each time I posted, I had to copy those crazy letters and numbers
and if I didn't copy it in time, I had to re-register to post
maybe they changed that since then
Few weeks ago I got on email with my next door neighbor from NYC
she really wanted me to join the site she was on WOW
so I did it to please her, and I did spend a happy morning there
but I was flummoxed by their site navigation
if someone responds to your post, you find out by getting an email?
Also there is no way to post articles, only famous people can post articles ?
But I found the threads interesting and perceptive to read, I did learn a lot
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 13:31:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#329. To: bluegrass (#327)
Fuck the Jewish power structure in America and fuck people that say 'the jooz'.

I find Stormfronters to be just as obnoxious and dishonest as the biggest neocon Zionist types.
I also find that both types rely on rumormongering, scaremongering, baseless accusations and such to promote their agendas.
No thanks. I'm not signing up for either side.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 13:35:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#330. To: TooConservative (#305)
As with most tribes, all jews are not created equal. ;0)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 13:42:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#331. To: TooConservative (#329)
I find Stormfronters to be just as obnoxious and dishonest as the biggest neocon Zionist types.

Your mistake is allowing yourself to be conditioned to the point that when you see and hear criticism of the Jewish power structure, you think it's from a 'Stormfronter' (a website out of West Palm Beach, Fla, btw...think about it).
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 13:42:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#332. To: TooConservative (#329)
Stormfronters

work for the Fed.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 13:42:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#333. To: bluegrass (#331)
F**king bogus War on Terror, War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on This, War on That, ...

I say 'unentangle' ourselves - decouple - and let them duke it out OVER THERE whilst we clean up the quisling mess OVER HERE. I don't care if the enemy within is from mars, all Traitors and foreign agents must leave or die. IMO ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 13:45:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#334. To: Rotara (#332)
Stormfront = Anti-Defamation League
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 13:46:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#335. To: Rotara (#333)
Even better, we just need to start ignoring their irrational demands for paperwork and money. They'll explode in a fit of apoplexy if enough of us did so.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 13:48:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#336. To: war (#323)
Sweetie...Goldi let that place go to hell...if you have rules then enforce them equally otherwise why bother to have them? I once got a "time out" for laughing at a joke about Ronald Reagan. Yet, people who capriciously and maliciously use the word "nigger" don't even get a sniff. LP was doomed to collapse under its own weight.
Here you don't seem to have that problem. There does not appear to be any rules so you know what yer gittin'. That's fine with me.

lol if 4um gets you they are lucky to have you
I am sure Christine remembers you from when we were all on Lucianne together
very few posters on whole internet have your talent for driving everyone up the wall :)
I think only Indie was better at it than you
and he has genius for it :)
But the fact is, we are now in a time when money, finance, Wall Street, business is the center of all the action
This is your area of expertise, you work on Wall Street
you know all the facts
and whereas you are willing to distort political perception
in order to drive me crazy
You won't do that about finance and money, your facts will be true, and helpful to all
I don't know where I will wind up
I am such a nut I don't fit in anywhere
But of course I am overjoyed to be here with you
and I am happy to be on 4um until all becomes clear
I'm not an ideologist, so even tho I am libertarian like the posters here on 4um
I have other perceptions too on things
I love you
Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 13:48:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#337. To: bluegrass (#334)
preachin to the choir here

I thought everyone knew that, but then a lot of them around here are new to the concept of a freedom forum. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 13:49:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#338. To: farmfriend (#322)
Thank you darling
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 13:50:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#339. To: Rotara (#337)
As soon as I see someone actually type out the phrase 'the jooz', I know we have either a card-carrying, Tribally-aware kike or an utterly brainwashed goy on our hands.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 13:53:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#340. To: bluegrass (#327)

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 13:53:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#341. To: Rhino369 (#258)
They didn't. It burned until it collapsed.

Yeah, that Magickal Jet Fuel™. Just takes a few drops apparently. No plane hit it but a few drops of the Magickal Jet Fuel™ must have splashed on it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 13:53:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#342. To: James Deffenbach (#341)
No plane hit it but a few drops of the Magickal Jet Fuel™ must have splashed on it.

lol!

litus posted on 2009-03-22 13:57:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#343. To: Jethro Tull (#340)
Beyond the obvious reasons, I've never understood why Sasha Cohen is famous.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 13:58:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#344. To: bluegrass (#339)
I used to be blind too.
Hopefully they're open to seeing things with more focus and attention to detail.
As the devil IS in the details. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 13:58:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#345. To: James Deffenbach (#341)
Magickal Jet Fuel™.

I need some of that to get rid of an old brick wall in the yard. I hear they stopped making it on 9/11/01.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 13:59:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#346. To: Rotara (#330)
As with most tribes, all jews are not created equal. ;0)

You mean the Ashkenazim don't treat the Sephardim as equals? Dang, I'm so shocked. They don't seem to treat the Russian Jews too well in Israel, judging by how many of them go back to Russia. And the Ethiopian Jews are, well, beyond the pale, it seems. And the contempt of the Israeli establishment for the Orthodox who oppose Zionism, especially that bunch living happily in Iran, is just pure poison.
As with other ethnic groups, demands for social justice are only to be applied to the dominant class. They quite obviously don't practice such equality internally.

Stormfronters work for the Fed.

Probably no more than 25% of them. I don't think the FBI ever recruited more than that when they went after the old labor/Commie types or the Klan. Of course, the FBI would often turn the leadership elements by blackmailing them. You can always expect the FBI will penetrate any formal organizational structure. You notice they seem to be concentrating on how to penetrate leaderless decentralized cell-structured organizations in the last few years.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 14:00:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#347. To: Rhino369 (#274)
Yes, school documentation from 1970's Indonesia is obviously much more official than Hawaiian certificates of live birth.

Your hero, the Obamasiah, has not produced a "Certificate of Live Birth" but a CERTIFICATION. There is a difference.
The State of Hawaii, statute 338, allows foreign born children of Hawaiian residents to get a Hawaiian birth certificate. Mr. Obama has never presented any corroborating evidence that he was actually born in Hawaii. His paternal grandmother in Kenya and the ambassador of Kenya made statements that he was born in Kenya.

The image that Mr. Obama has posted on the Internet was not a valid birth certificate, but rather a limited value document, called Short Version Certification of Live Birth. The Certification of Live Birth does not name a hospital, name a doctor, have any signatures or a seal of the Hawaiian Health Department on the front of the document. This document is usually given to parties that don't have a proper hospital birth certificate and it is given based on a statement of one relative only. Even the state of Hawaii doesn't give full credit to these documents.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:02:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#348. To: TooConservative (#346)
leaderless decentralized cell-structured organization bump

I'm just saying that some animals are more equal than others - in some very series luciferian-Globalist players' eyes and hearts.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 14:05:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#349. To: James Deffenbach (#347)
LOL

The Otards know no shame.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 14:05:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#350. To: TooConservative (#346)
You notice they seem to be concentrating on how to penetrate leaderless decentralized cell-structured organizations in the last few years.

The Feds are swamped as there's thousands of them now. I'm a leaderless decentralized cell of one. ; )
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 14:07:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#351. To: Rotara (#344)
I used to be blind too.

All of us are STILL blind. The first step is admitting it.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 14:09:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#352. To: James Deffenbach (#347)

Your hero, the Obamasiah, has not produced a "Certificate of Live Birth" but a CERTIFICATION. There is a difference.

He isn't my hero, I didn't even vote for him. Certificate certification who gives a shit, its legal proof in any court of the circumstances of his birth. The name of it is truly irrelevant.

The State of Hawaii, statute 338, allows foreign born children of Hawaiian residents to get a Hawaiian birth certificate.

Not when Obama got his, and not one that lists his city of birth as Honolulu. Strike one.

Mr. Obama has never presented any corroborating evidence that he was actually born in Hawaii. His paternal grandmother in Kenya and the ambassador of Kenya made statements that he was born in Kenya.

The grandma story is a fake. The audio you birther truthers claim is about Obama's father. Strike two. How would an Ambassador know if Obama was born there? You think they have every birth stored in their memories. He is on record saying Obama wasn't born there.

The image that Mr. Obama has posted on the Internet was not a valid birth certificate, but rather a limited value document, called Short Version Certification of Live Birth. The Certification of Live Birth does not name a hospital, name a doctor, have any signatures or a seal of the Hawaiian Health Department on the front of the document. This document is usually given to parties that don't have a proper hospital birth certificate and it is given based on a statement of one relative only. Even the state of Hawaii doesn't give full credit to these documents.

That document is given to everyone who asks for a duplicate birth certificate. Everyone. Its fully legal, and is proof in any court of the circumstances of his birth, by Hawaiian law. And yes the state of Hawaii gives full credit to it. Strike Three.
What you are talking about is a native hawaiian program where you must prove that not only you were born in Hawaii but your parents where both born in Hawaii. In that case that document isn't allowed, not because it can't be trusted as being accurate, but because it doesn't list the city of his parents birth.
Like all conspiracy theorists you go out and try to find seeds of doubt to prove your forgone conclusion. And you can't even do that, so you must misrepresent what you find.
The document Obama has shown is just as legal as any birth certificate in the nation. He can use it to get a drivers license, passport, social security card, anything.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 14:12:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#353. To: Rhino369 (#352)
The document Obama has shown is just as legal as any birth certificate in the nation.

He just wants to protect his privacy by hiding the original, right?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 14:14:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#354. To: Rotara (#349)

The Otards know no shame.

You are the one who has no shame. You have absolutely no drive to find the truth, and instead believe anything that fits your biased opinions. Its rather weak behavior.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 14:15:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#355. To: kUSS (#307)
Good for you Willie! You are still the biggest nitwit on the web! Did you add him next to Merc? You pussy.

Most excellent. Willie "has issues" to say the least.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:17:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#356. To: bluegrass (#353)
He just wants to protect his privacy by hiding the original, right?

Who knows, maybe he lost it. Either way his original is going to match the certification of live birth so what is the difference?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 14:17:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#357. To: Rhino369 (#354)
LOL

Deny, deny, deny
Spin, spin, spin
If he won't show his s#it, he's not legit.
Just for starters, cough it up and let's talk then.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 14:18:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#358. To: Rhino369 (#356)
Who knows, maybe he lost it.

According to Hawaiian officials, it's not lost. Obama's just spent a huge chunk of change making sure it stays out of sight.
But continue on with your faith and belief in yet another corrupt, narcissistic president.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 14:20:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#359. To: nooz (#313)
Well there's a plan for 'drop-outs' too. This thing is incredible.

Well, I don't have any children of my own but do have nieces and nephews. And if they came to force one of them to "volunteer" they might go back whence they came with something they never left with.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:20:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#360. To: TooConservative (#315)
Hmmm...I'm just trying to discern whether you are the official spokesman for Christine or the official spokesman for all 4um posters.

Dont bother to strain anything.
Just a friendly reminder to pilgrims from LP, the rules are different here.
We sort of like it this way. If anti semetic remarks offend you, I suggest you grow a thicker skin.
I was thrown out of FR, Lucys, LP and one or two more because I tired of people flying the anti semetic flag day after day.
Just trying to be helpful, your other friends will read all of this and take heed, so you have served a purpose.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 14:20:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#361. To: James Deffenbach (#347)
the Obamasiah has not produced a "Certificate of Live Birth" but a CERTIFICATION. There is a difference.
The State of Hawaii, statute 338, allows foreign born children of Hawaiian residents to get a Hawaiian birth certificate. Mr. Obama has never presented any corroborating evidence that he was actually born in Hawaii. His paternal grandmother in Kenya and the ambassador of Kenya made statements that he was born in Kenya.
The image that Mr. Obama has posted on the Internet was not a valid birth certificate, but rather a limited value document, called Short Version Certification of Live Birth. The Certification of Live Birth does not name a hospital, name a doctor, have any signatures or a seal of the Hawaiian Health Department on the front of the document. This document is usually given to parties that don't have a proper hospital birth certificate and it is given based on a statement of one relative only. Even the state of Hawaii doesn't give full credit to these documents

Hi James
thank you for writing this informative post
I did not know all this
I got out a copy of my birth certicate, from Department of Health in Manhattan
it is a copy of the original birth certificate signed by Dr Sussman (who delivered me)
I am surprised at all the information on there
what time my mom was admitted to the maternity hospital
how long she was in labor
what time I was born
and what time Dr Sussman signed the birth certificate
it also has both my parents ages on it, where they worked, and their jobs back then
LOL I was born in middle of night and I think Dr Sussman was either sleepy (or tipsy)
he got my mom's age wrong (by 3 years)
also he wrote down she was a housewife, she was actually a nurse back then
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 14:23:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#362. To: palo verde (#317)
Your posts are intelligent, I appreciate reading them

Your mind may be comin' back to you. ahaha. Thank you for the nice compliment and the one about my tagline. It's the one I have used as long as I have been posting here I think.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:23:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#363. To: Jethro Tull (#324)
Steve Allen was a young man in that clip. So long ago.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 14:29:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#364. To: bluegrass (#345)
I need some of that to get rid of an old brick wall in the yard. I hear they stopped making it on 9/11/01.

You'll not be gettin' any of that, laddie. Faith and begorrah, it was all used up on 9/11 and good that it was toooooooo!!!! 'Tis a good thing that they only made one batch of that devil's brew. >(;^{]
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:29:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#365. To: bluegrass (#345)
Magickal Jet Fuel™.

I need some of that to get rid of an old brick wall in the yard. I hear they stopped making it on 9/11/01.

The refinery is in West Palm Beach, Florida right next to the Stormfront offices.
Magickal Jet Fuel™ - Guaranteed to dissolve any concrete or masonry structure into powder in 1 hour or less. A little (freefall) drop'll do ya!
Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
Esso posted on 2009-03-22 14:30:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#366. To: bluegrass (#358)

According to Hawaiian officials, it's not lost. Obama's just spent a huge chunk of change making sure it stays out of sight.

Oh you mean why doesn't he get Hawaii to release the vault copy? Why should he respond to people who clearly hate his guts. I wouldn't respond to them either. He showed legal proof, and that is the end of the story for rational people. Would you guys really change your mind if he showed the original copy? Of course not. Your track record on believing wild claims with no evidence about Obama is clear. You hate Obama, and will believe anything that makes him illegitimate. Hey I understand I used to think that way. It has the bonus of keeping you guys focused on a dead end. You've already spent close to a year on a wild goose chase. Instead you could have been doing real investigative work on his past dealings in Chicago. I'm sure there is some corruption there. Instead you create vast conspiracies that involve some 18 year old liberal white girl flying to Kenya to have her baby, then sneaking him back just so her black baby can someday be President of the USA. Yea right...

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 14:32:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#367. To: Rhino369 (#366)
Why should he respond

Flying raft of bull fucking shit.
If he don't show his shit, he AIN'T LEGIT !
IMPEACH OBAMA !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 14:33:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#368. To: Rotara (#349)
The Otards know no shame.

They are a funny bunch. They always SEEMED to be small-government libertarian's when Bush was president and they talked mighty nasty about him (which didn't bother me any, so did I because I thought he was a disaster). But then their Obamasiah comes along promising some undefined "HOPE & CHANGE™" and is clearly on the same team with Bush but they will not hear a discouraging word about him. Makes me think they might have been worshipers of the letter D after all.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:34:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#369. To: Rhino369 (#352)
The document Obama has shown is just as legal as any birth certificate in the nation. He can use it to get a drivers license, passport, social security card, anything.

Just like the rest of your post, that is bs. I had to send a certified copy of my actual birth certificate to get a passport. I couldn't have gotten one with that pos Photoshop thing you and your Obamasiah are so proud of.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:36:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#370. To: James Deffenbach (#368)
D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D
D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D
D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D
D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D
D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D
D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D

inDeeD !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 14:37:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#371. To: Rhino369 (#356)
Hi Rhino
I don't know where Obama was actually born, but it is not a cause for me
I think native born citizen is in the Constitution because our Founders did not want a President loyal to another country
I personally think Obama's loyalty is only to the Dem Party, whose loyalty is to CitiBank and Goldman Sachs
but this is not un-Constitutional
serving special interests instead of serving the citizens has been with us since the start of our country's history
I was surprised to read in George Washington's Farewell Address how much he warned that special interests are controlling everything in politics now
and I guess it never changed
it is why I wanted Ron Paul to be President with all my heart
I hope 2012 will be the BIG CHANGE
and we will get a government which serves the citizens
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 14:38:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#372. To: James Deffenbach (#369)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 14:38:55 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#373. To: palo verde (#361)
LOL I was born in middle of night and I think Dr Sussman was either sleepy (or tipsy) he got my mom's age wrong (by 3 years) also he wrote down she was a housewife, she was actually a nurse back then

Doctors then were even more loath to do paperwork than now. It was probably filled out by a nurse or clerk and the only thing that was actually from the doc was his signature.
At one of the hospitals here in the eighties if possible they would have the student nurses obtain the info, fill out the checklist form for birth data, give it to the ward clerk, who filled in her part with addresses and such and typed it out on an official form. Then put it in the docs mail box for their signature. Where it went from there and how it got the "Official Seal" I don't personally know.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-22 14:39:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#374. To: palo verde (#361)

This is just as good as the one Obama had Photoshopped on the net to con his rubes and gullible fans. There is a lot more information on an actual birth certificate than on what Obama and his sycophants are proclaiming is just as good. And just why would anyone spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of someone's money (I doubt he is spending any of his own) to hide a document that can be produced for just a few dollars? Does that make sense to anyone but a brain-dead Obot?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:40:57 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#375. To: James Deffenbach (#369)
I had to send a certified copy of my actual birth certificate to get a passport.

same here
mine was a copy which I had gotten from the Health Dept in Manhattan 20 years ago
I went down and waited in line and paid for the copy
it had the Seal of the Health Dept stamped on it
but I still had long conversation with the gov. bureaucrat on phone last year whether he would accept it
Bureaucracy about birth certificate is now incredibly strict!
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 14:44:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#376. To: James Deffenbach (#369)

Just like the rest of your post, that is bs. I had to send a certified copy of my actual birth certificate to get a passport. I couldn't have gotten one with that pos Photoshop thing you and your Obamasiah are so proud of.

You can use the exact document Obama has to get a passport. That is a fucking fact.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 14:44:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#377. To: palo verde (#371)
it is why I wanted Ron Paul to be President with all my heart I hope 2012 will be the BIG CHANGE and we will get a government which serves the citizens

We'll RP lost, as much as that sucked. Winning about birth conspiracies will not help.
RP has a campaign for liberty going, all that energy should be directed there.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 14:46:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#378. To: Rhino369 (#376)
You can use the exact document Obama has to get a passport. That is a fucking fact.

Just in the alleged mind of an Obot I reckon. My birth certificate--you know that thing that the doctor signs that has a hell of a lot more info than the pos your hero produced--is what I had to use. Maybe you can tell them you love the new fuehrer and get by with a Photoshop pos like he did.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:47:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#379. To: James Deffenbach (#374)
LOL Jimmy your picture made me crack up :)
that is funny
and your points are all true
we are all called to different causes
and mine seems to be the one about Obama and Dems corruption with CitiBank
but I am starting to see the value and appreciate the efforts of posters who are determined to get the truth of the birth certificate
The truth matters, always!
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 14:50:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#380. To: Rhino369 (#376)
Since you are so smart--at least in your own mind--how about laying out for us exactly WHY anyone would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep his actual birth certificate hidden. No bs about how those of us who don't trust him "hate" him--personally I trust almost no one in government--and no bs about how he "doesn't have to." Just tell us why he refuses to do so and don't give us some stupid Obot answer please.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:50:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#381. To: Rhino369 (#366)
Why should he respond to people who clearly hate his guts.

Ah yes, 'hate'. When out of rational arguments, let's bring emotion into the picture and muddy the waters.
Obama knows he's not legally eligible to be prez, hence his reluctance to show the original birth certificate. I can think of no other reason that he'd be so evasive on the issue.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 14:50:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#382. To: palo verde (#379)
The truth matters, always!

Sure it does. Except to the Obamasiah worshippers.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:52:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#383. To: James Deffenbach, Esso (#364)
Magickal Jet Fuel™

Will it also get rid of those tough stains?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 14:52:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#384. To: bluegrass, Rhino369 (#381)
Ah yes, 'hate'. When out of rational arguments, let's bring emotion into the picture and muddy the waters.

Typical m.o., isn't it?

litus posted on 2009-03-22 14:53:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#385. To: bluegrass (#383)
You wouldn't want to be putting any of that on stains! One drop would blow up your whole wardrobe and leave you without zip code (homeless).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:54:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#386. To: bluegrass (#383)
The refugees from LP brought all of their love of government and hate of everything not Jew with them.
Scruffy lot so far.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 14:54:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#387. To: James Deffenbach (#347)
Want to have some fun?

The Obama File
Check out the Natural Born file. Facinating stuff. It get's really juicy about half way down the page.
And for a real knee slapper, check out THE CAMAPAIGN.
It would sound partisan, if the stuff weren't actually true. (And sourced). Once you read through it, you have to ask, will the real Obama please stand up.
THE WIFE file
Michelle Obama's Makeover for America

"The powerful clay work shows Michelle Obama in the style of an African Queen, wearing large hooped earrings and an "afro pick" comb in her Egyptian- influenced hairstyle.
An American flag is tattooed across her naked chest and the comb is decorated with pearls, the traditional garb of a First Lady, and an American Eagle.
The work, by controversial sculptor Daniel Edwards, is clearly a nod to both Mrs. Obama's ethnic roots and her position at the heart of American culture and politics.
As her husband, Barack Obama, battles to win the next U. S. presidential elections, she has come under intense media spotlight, and has been likened to former First Lady Jackie Kennedy.
However, Edwards said: "The goal is to create a look for Michelle Obama that eliminates excessive comparisons to Jackie Kennedy."
The bust, entitled "Michelle Obama's Makeover for America" goes on display at the Leo Kesting Gallery in New York on October 1
Makeover for America -- no thanks -- you can keep your makeover -- and comparison to Jackie O -- not on her worst day -- that bust is just scary.
The sculptor has managed to capture that dismissive, elitist look though."

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 14:55:03 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#388. To: Rhino369 (#376)
You can use the exact document Obama has to get a passport.

Getting a passport is pretty much the equivalent of ascending to the north ameriKan throne !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 14:56:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#389. To: nooz (#387)
The work, by controversial sculptor Daniel Edwards, is clearly a nod to both Mrs. Obama's ethnic roots and her

jugs !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 14:57:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#390. To: bluegrass (#381)

Ah yes, 'hate'. When out of rational arguments, let's bring emotion into the picture and muddy the waters.

I have rational arguments. I'm not the one who has to create vast conspiracies to justify your beliefs.
FYI I don't think hating Obama is necessarily bad. I sure as hell hated Bush for what he did.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 14:57:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#391. To: Rhino369, James Deffenbach (#377)
(Rhno) We'll RP lost, as much as that sucked. Winning about birth conspiracies will not help.

We all do what we are called to do
I am trying to understand the corruption
others want to get the truth of the birth certificate
James's posts on this thread have had invigorating effect on me
because the truth always matters
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 14:57:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#392. To: litus (#384)
Utterly typical. Just as with the Bush worshippers, the tendency to defend Obama is based on emotion rather than reason.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 14:58:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#393. To: Rotara (#388)

Getting a passport is pretty much the equivalent of ascending to the north ameriKan throne !

D-d-d-d-d-odge.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 14:58:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#394. To: James Deffenbach (#385)
One drop would blow up your whole wardrobe

Losing my four pairs of pants and my ten shirts wouldn't be a great loss. ; )
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 14:59:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#395. To: nooz (#387)
She's a hag, a shrill harpy and a harridan.
"...Michelle Obama told a Milwaukee rally, "What we have learned over the past year is that hope is making a comeback. And let me tell you something – for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment."....
From the article: Michelle Obama: Angry black harridan.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 14:59:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#396. To: Cynicom (#386)
They're an entertaining lot anyway.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 14:59:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#397. To: Rhino369 (#393)
Yeah, you dodge a LOT !
Are you saying that the requirements for acquiring a passport are the same for becoming preznit ?
You've done nothing but dodge the reason Obamalamadingdong won't cough up his vitals - why ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:00:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#398. To: Rhino369 (#390)
I'm not the one who has to create vast conspiracies

There's no need to create anything. It's a pure, stone-cold fact that Obama won't release his birth certificate.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:01:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#399. To: bluegrass (#392)
Just as with the Bush worshippers, the tendency to defend Obama is based on emotion rather than reason.

The same thing was happening when Mitt Romney was running in the primaries...if you didn't want him, then you were accused of being a "mormon hater."
lol!

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:01:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#400. To: Cynicom (#386)
The refugees from LP brought all of their love of government and hate of everything not Jew with them.
Scruffy lot so far

Maybe you could devise a quiz that would ascertain each poster's degree of purity of thought. Sort of like the one that WhiteSands would try to needle posters in falling for. That would tidy up the ranks. LOL

mininggold posted on 2009-03-22 15:02:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#401. To: bluegrass (#398)

There's no need to create anything. It's a pure, stone-cold fact that Obama won't release his birth certificate.

He doesn't have to.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:04:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#402. To: litus (#399)
I hate Mitt Romney because he's a jerk.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:04:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#403. To: mininggold (#400)
Some people go into hissy fits when there is no one to tattle to such as in LP.
Here is the url that will welcome them with open arms and they can tattle all day long.
http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/latestcomments.cgi

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 15:05:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#404. To: bluegrass (#402)
I hate Mitt Romney because he's a faux conservative and a lying jerk.
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:05:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#405. To: James Deffenbach (#382)
(Palo) The truth matters, always!
(James) Sure it does. Except to the Obamasiah worshippers.

my own friends and family are Obamasiah worshippers
I do not say one word to them
I think the truth is always out there and can be seen
but a person has to choose for themself to put it ahead of all other values
and my friends and family put their ideology first
that is a free will choice, and if I respect free will (which I do)
I have to respect it
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 15:05:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#406. To: Rhino369 (#401)
He doesn't have to.

If he wants to start a civil war in the next few years, let him keep holding to that line.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:06:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#407. To: Rotara (#397)
Are you saying that the requirements for acquiring a passport are the same for becoming preznit ?

No asshole, it wasn't me who brought up getting passports. The requirements for President are clear. Be a natural born US citizen, live in the US for 14 years, and be 35 years old. The COLB is proof of two of those three.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:06:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#408. To: litus (#404)
His hair is ridiculous too.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:06:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#409. To: bluegrass (#408)
haaaaaa!

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:07:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#410. To: bluegrass (#406)

If he wants to start a civil war in the next few years, let him keep holding to that line.

Yea you guys are really going to start a civil war over Obama giving you a computerized certification instead of a photocopy of the original. Hahahaha

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:07:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#411. To: Rhino369 (#407)
Be a natural born US citizen

Which oBama isn't due to his father having been a Kenyan/British citizen.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:07:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#412. To: Cynicom (#403)
Some people go into hissy fits when there is no one to tattle to such as in LP.

Why do you have a need to tattle? Get that quiz going.....it's getting late and you know what LP posters are like. An uncouth, untidy lot. LOLOL

mininggold posted on 2009-03-22 15:08:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#413. To: litus (#404)
I hate Mitt Romney because he's a faux conservative and a lying jerk.

Who currently in congress or political life isn't a faux conservative?

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 15:08:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#414. To: bluegrass (#411)

Which oBama isn't due to his father having been a Kenyan/British citizen.

NBC means citizen at birth. Obama is a NBC.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:08:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#415. To: Jethro Tull (#413)
I can think of maybe one at the moment....Jeff Sessions.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:08:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#416. To: Rhino369 (#401)
He doesn't have to.

That has been obvious so far anyway. What isn't obvious is WHY won't he produce an actual birth certificate? Did the dog eat it? Assuming you had the money and you were running for public office, would YOU spend hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of dollars, to hide your actual birth certificate when you could produce one for less than twenty dollars? And if you would, would that not show that you were unfit for office? Anyone would have to be a fool to go to that expense UNLESS they were hiding something and no one would spend that kind of money who wasn't hiding something. Now what could it be? Baby daddy not who he has always claimed or not born in Hawaii?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:09:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#417. To: Rhino369 (#410)
An illegal and ineligible commander-in-chief of the military is a perfectly good reason to take up arms against an illegal government.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:09:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#418. To: bluegrass (#417)
blue...
Such programmed sheep as this love the government, love the Savior, love their knee pads and love Israel.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 15:11:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#419. To: James Deffenbach (#395)
She's a hag, a shrill harpy and a harridan.
Michelle Obama: Angry black harridan.

That was excellent. Thanks for the link. And a brand new word for my vocabulary.

www.theobamafile.com/ObamaWife. htm

" "Michelle Obama set out Monday on a listening tour through the federal bureaucracy, stopping first at the US Department of Education (DOE) to thank employees for their service and rally them for the tough work ahead.
"There's a lot of work to do and we're going to need you," Mrs. Obama said. "The children of this country are counting on all of us."
In thanking the workers, she told the DOE staff members, "I am a product of your work."
Michelle conveniently overlooked the fact that the DOE was created by the Department of Education Organization Act (Public Law 96-88), and was signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on October 17, 1979. The DOE began operating on May 4, 1980, when Michelle was entering her senior year of high school.
Her hypocritical speech, espousing the importance of the public schools system, also brought focus to the fact that her own children have NEVER attended a public school. They recently started attending the exclusive Sidwell Friends private school in the capital that costs almost $30,000 each a year, and before that the girls both attended the private University of Chicago Laboratory Schools, where their mother was on the board."

Now I wonder if she draws a paycheck for being the First Lady.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:12:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#420. To: palo verde (#405)
Sure, you have to respect people's right to believe whatever they choose to believe. But I find it extremely curious that they defend someone who proclaimed that he would run a "transparent" administration, yet he refuses to show his real birth certificate. And he lied about how he would give the public five days to check out bills before he signed them into law. Just another liar and hypocrite like most politicians.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:13:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#421. To: James Deffenbach (#416)
What isn't obvious is WHY won't he produce an actual birth certificate? Did the dog eat it?

He produced legal proof. That wasn't good enough. Why should he continue to play the game with a bunch of conspriacy theorists, now being led by the esteemed scammer Alan Keyes (and BTW I voted for Keyes over Obama in 2004).

Assuming you had the money and you were running for public office, would YOU spend hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of dollars, to hide your actual birth certificate when you could produce one for less than twenty dollars?

He produced the 20 dollar copy and it didn't stop anything. There is no evidence that he is spending any money. National campaigns have lawyers who work pro bono. If a case went to trial he'd have to pay, but so far every single one has been immediately dismissed. And many of the lawsuits aren't even asking for a birth certificate they are claiming his father makes him not eligible.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:13:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#422. To: Rhino369 (#414)
A natural born citizen, per the understanding of the men that wrote the Constitution, is someone born on the country's soil of two citizen parents. Read Emmerich Vattel for the source of the Framers' understanding of the term. Obama's daddy's citizenship makes Obama ineligible.
Obama's a citizen, but not a natural born citizen. Neither am I, for the record. I've known that my entire life and so does Obama.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:13:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#423. To: bluegrass (#417)
An illegal and ineligible commander-in-chief of the military is a perfectly good reason to take up arms against an illegal government.

So what are you doing about it?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:14:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#424. To: litus (#415)
Jeff Sessions

I don't know a thing about him, but did he support the war in Iraq? The Patriot Act? The war in Afghanistan? Any of the wild spending by Jorge?

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 15:14:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#425. To: Rhino369 (#423)
Never mind me. What are YOU doing to stop an illegitimate government? Thus far, I've only seen you defend its existence.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:16:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#426. To: nooz (#419)
That was excellent. Thanks for the link. And a brand new word for my vocabulary.
Now I wonder if she draws a paycheck for being the First Lady.

You are most welcome, glad you liked it.
I have always thought that "First Lady" was pure bs--why would any man call someone else's wife "the first lady"? Some ah member of the press fawning over one of them for a story must have come up with that idiocy.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:17:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#427. To: palo verde (#336)
I think only Indie was better at it than you

Wells and eschoir are up there...

war posted on 2009-03-22 15:18:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#428. To: Jethro Tull (#424)
He led the charge to stop the illegal alien invaders obtaining amnesty when Jorge was throwing the gates of hell open upon America by them. Few others stood with him and against Bush and Congress on that at the time.
As far as his entire history in the senate, I'm certain that he isn't nearly as conservative as he should be....but you asked if any weren't fake.
I'll still say, imo, Jeff Sessions is one of those. Zell Miller is/was too.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:18:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#429. To: Rhino369 (#421)
There is no evidence that he is spending any money.

I will grant you that he probably isn't spending any of his own money but the rest of your post is just more bs. He won't even help his own brother, or half brother, who lives in Kenya on about a dollar a day. I don't know why you Obots think he is so wonderful.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:19:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#430. To: litus (#428)
Jeff Sessions is one of those. Zell Miller is/was too.

neocon / neocom bump

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:20:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#431. To: James Deffenbach, Rhino369 (#341)
Yeah, that Magickal Jet Fuel™. Just takes a few drops apparently. No plane hit it but a few drops of the Magickal Jet Fuel™ must have splashed on it.

Dude....you know you have Douchensack™ when he starts responding with this nonsense...

war posted on 2009-03-22 15:20:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#432. To: bluegrass (#422)
A natural born citizen, per the understanding of the men that wrote the Constitution, is someone born on the country's soil of two citizen parents. Read Emmerich Vattel for the source of the Framers' understanding of the term. Obama's daddy's citizenship makes Obama ineligible.

Why do you assume Vitel was the founder source? He didn't write in English, and merely wrote about what he thinks a natural born citizen should be.
Natural born, has meant since the 16th century, inherent from birth. Oxford English dictionary has defined it that way since before the constitution was written.
So natural born citizen means citizen from birth.
At the time of the constitution someone who was born here not of two citizens wasn't a citizen, but that changed after the 14th amendment.
Think about it. Obama studied and taught constitutional law. Do you really think he'd write a book about his obviously non-citizen father and think he could get away with it. How did Obama run for president for about two years and nobody mention this?
How come this new definition only appeared when the Birthers couldn't find evidence of his foreign birth, and only a week before his election.
Use some common sense.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:21:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#433. To: Rotara (#430)
You believe both of them to be faux conservatives, as well?

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:21:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#434. To: Rhino369 (#414)
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

"Obama...
is not a "natural born citizen" because his father was a Kenyan national and a British subject. To be a natural born citizen, a person's parents must BOTH be citizens of the United States of America. Further, that person must be born in the United States.
is a "citizen" because his mother was an American citizen. There are question about his birthplace and whether he was naturalized after his period of time as an Indonesian citizen.
may be a "native born citizen" -- a child born in the United States of foreign (non-citizen) parents. He will have to release his birth certificate, which he hasn't, to ascertain this status. "
CHART aka Visual Aid
Further Reading

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:22:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#435. To: bluegrass (#425)
Never mind me. What are YOU doing to stop an illegitimate government? Thus far, I've only seen you defend its existence.

I don't think our government is illegitimate. Its got some major fucking problems, but nothing that we can't solve by electing better people.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:22:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#436. To: Rhino369 (#432)
How come this new definition only appeared when the Birthers couldn't find evidence of his foreign birth, and only a week before his election.
Use some common sense.

Why don't YOU use some "common sense" and tell us all why your hero won't produce his real birth certificate? Of course the reason you don't use any is because you don't have any.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:23:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#437. To: James Deffenbach (#429)
I will grant you that he probably isn't spending any of his own money but the rest of your post is just more bs.

The meanin of 'is'. F**king Otards.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:23:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#438. To: James Deffenbach (#429)

I will grant you that he probably isn't spending any of his own money but the rest of your post is just more bs. He won't even help his own brother, or half brother, who lives in Kenya on about a dollar a day. I don't know why you Obots think he is so wonderful.

I'm not an Obot. I only want to see the world as it really is. Obama is the legal president, and recognizing that doesn't make me a fanatical Obama supporter. Just like me knowing Bush was the President didn't make me a bush bot.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:24:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#439. To: Rhino369 (#435)
I don't think our government is illegitimate.

uh huh.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:24:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#440. To: litus (#433)
You believe both of them to be faux conservatives, as well?

Pull up their voting records, look at our Constitution and you tell me ! ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:24:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#441. To: nooz (#434)
Your chart is bullshit. Read the laws and opinions it cites, and nothing in them says what it claims.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:25:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#442. To: James Deffenbach (#436)

Why don't YOU use some "common sense" and tell us all why your hero won't produce his real birth certificate? Of course the reason you don't use any is because you don't have any

Because he doesn't have to, and gains nothing by doing so.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:25:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#443. To: nooz (#434)
maybe crayons would help them to understand more better

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:26:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#444. To: Rhino369 (#438)
I only want to see the world as it really is. Obama is the legal president

(a) No, you don't, and (b) there is no way you can know that because the Obamasiah refuses to produce his birth certificate. Don't you feel foolish defending that?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:26:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#445. To: litus (#428)
Sessions supported Bush on Iraq, Afghanistan and in most areas of "free trade." If that's a conservative to you, it's no wonder we have a lawn jockey as president.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 15:26:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#446. To: Rhino369 (#442)

Why don't YOU use some "common sense" and tell us all why your hero won't produce his real birth certificate? Of course the reason you don't use any is because you don't have any
Because he doesn't have to, and gains nothing by doing so.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahahahhahahahahahhaahahAHAHAHAHAaaahahhhaaaahahaha !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:27:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#447. To: nooz (#434)
To be a natural born citizen, a person's parents must BOTH be citizens of the United States of America.

Please cite the Title, Chapter and Section of the US Code to which you are referring.
Thanks...
Further, that person must be born in the United States.
We'll correct you on this one after you source US law on the former...

war posted on 2009-03-22 15:27:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#448. To: Rhino369 (#432)
Oxford English dictionary has defined it that way since before the constitution was written.

The OED wasn't around when the Constitution was written. Are there any other facts you're making up as you go along?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:30:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#449. To: Rhino369 (#442)
Because he doesn't have to, and gains nothing by doing so.

"He doesn't have to" sounds like a kid's argument--a retarded kid. He would have gained a few hundred thousand dollars, or at least not had to spend it (and it was probably someone else's so he really didn't care) if he would have simply produced the actual birth certificate. And I can only think of two reasons why he insists on keeping it hidden. Either it shows that he was not born in Hawaii as he claims or it may show that his father is not who he says. I can think of no reason, other than those two, why he would refuse to show it. But keep on defending him. I am sure he appreciates gullible stooges.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:30:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#450. To: James Deffenbach (#449)
I can think of no reason, other than those two, why he would refuse to show it. But keep on defending him. I am sure he appreciates gullible stooges.

Maybe it has Daddy's real name on there. ~(%^|

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:32:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#451. To: Rhino369 (#435)
I don't think our government is illegitimate.

There's your problem right there.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:33:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#452. To: James Deffenbach (#426) (Edited)
I have always thought that "First Lady" was pure bs--why would any man call someone else's wife "the first lady"? Some ah member of the press fawning over one of them for a story must have come up with that idiocy.

Well I had to find out:

"First spouse or friend or what??
I think it sort of proves your point.
What happens if Queen Latifah becomes President someday? Hillary would have a cow.
edited.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:33:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#453. To: bluegrass (#422)
Obama's a citizen, but not a natural born citizen.

Do you need to be reminded as to how resoundingly I bitch slapped you - to the point of humiliation - over this Moonbat belief?

war posted on 2009-03-22 15:34:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#454. To: bluegrass (#448)

The OED wasn't around when the Constitution was written. Are there any other facts you're making up as you go along?

You are right I'm sorry.
The Oxford English Dictionary lists it as being defined that since the 16th century. It didn't actually list it in 1790s because like you said it didn't exist.
I'm sorry for spreading false info.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:34:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#455. To: James Deffenbach (#449)

"He doesn't have to" sounds like a kid's argument--a retarded kid.

No its the simple truth. He doesn't have to and its not hurting him at all.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:35:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#456. To: Rhino369 (#455)

"He doesn't have to" sounds like a kid's argument--a retarded kid.
No its the simple truth. He doesn't have to and its not hurting him at all.

LOL LMAO !! STOP IT ALREADY !!! FOFLOL

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:36:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#457. To: war (#453)
Link to the bitch-slap. As I recall, I gave you an education in Vattel and the writing of the Constitution.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:36:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#458. To: Rhino369 (#441)
Your chart is bullshit. Read the laws and opinions it cites, and nothing in them says what it claims.

You sound testy. Do you need a nap?

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:36:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#459. To: All, bluegrass (#454)

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:37:03 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#460. To: nooz (#458)
You sound testy. Do you need a nap?

No I'm fussy cause I'm hungry.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:37:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#461. To: Rotara (#443)
maybe crayons would help them to understand more better

ROFL!

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:37:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#462. To: Rotara (#450)
Maybe it has Daddy's real name on there. ~(%^|

Yeah, that could be it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:38:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#463. To: Rotara (#456)
LOL LMAO !! STOP IT ALREADY !!! FOFLOL

You think discussion on sites like Freedom4um or FreeRepublic, and law suits by Berg, and Keyes mean anything in the real world?
You exist on the fringe of the political map, you must know that. It doesn't necessarily mean you are wrong, but if you don't realized you represent a tiny fraction of the American people how can you hope to actually do anything.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:39:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#464. To: war (#447)
Please cite the Title, Chapter and Section of the US Code to which you are referring.
Thanks...

Did you look at the chart?
Let's try it again. You need to actually click on the link and a whole new page will open up.
www.theobamafile.com/Oba maNaturalBorn.htm

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:39:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#465. To: Rhino369 (#454)
Why did the Framers use the specific term 'natural born citizen' instead of just citizen?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 15:40:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#466. To: nooz, war (#464)
Why can't you answer wars question?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:40:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#467. To: Rhino369 (#460)
No I'm fussy cause I'm hungry.

May I offer you some gubmit cheese?

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:41:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#468. To: bluegrass (#465)
Why did the Framers use the specific term 'natural born citizen' instead of just citizen?

Natural born is an adjective to describe the noun citizen.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:41:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#469. To: nooz (#467)

May I offer you some gubmit cheese?

I like the gubmit apple juice better.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:41:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#470. To: Rhino369 (#463)
I think that just because a mass of propagandized big statist government worshipers love their Nanny State it doesn't mean their Nanny State loves them.
In your 'real world' it doesn't pan out either.
Wake up or not, frankly I don't give a damn. At all. You don't have the sense that God gave a dog.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:42:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#471. To: Rhino369 (#466)
Why can't you answer wars question?

I can, but it's plain as day on the chart, and further explained below. He yawned earlier, so he could be too tired to read it.
Maybe you can help him read it.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:42:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#472. To: nooz (#452)
Thanks for the link. If "Queen" Latifah became President would she be called Mr. President/First Lady Latifah? ahaha.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:43:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#473. To: Rhino369 (#469)
I like the gubmit apple juice better.

Tough break.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:43:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#474. To: nooz (#471)

I can, but it's plain as day on the chart, and further explained below. He yawned earlier, so he could be too tired to read it.
Maybe you can help him read it.

I read the law months ago when that chart was first created and realized the chart maker is a liar.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:43:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#475. To: Jethro Tull (#445)
OTOH, Spectre voted against CAFTA.....but a conservative that doesn't make.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:44:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#476. To: Rhino369 (#463)
You exist on the fringe of the political map, you must know that.

For the record, if I were to have to go back to the mainstream matrix of Truman Story fairy tales - I'd find another road to travel.
The truth unfortunately is a fringe concept in a world of wolves and proud sheeple.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 15:44:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#477. To: James Deffenbach (#472)
Thanks for the link. If "Queen" Latifah became President would she be called Mr. President/First Lady Latifah? ahaha.

I don't know. See? Now I know her given name isn't really Queen, but I really think this could lead to some confusion down the road. We need to get on this. What if PRINCE became President? Or Dog the Bounty Hunter? We're going to have a mess on our hands. I'm worried.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:46:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#478. To: litus (#475)
Specter isn't an American. Sessions claim to fame is that he sometimes obeys the law of the land. Neither is fit to lead and both are prime reasons the Rs are lost in space.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 15:47:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#479. To: nooz (#477)
I don't know. See? Now I know her given name isn't really Queen, but I really think this could lead to some confusion down the road. We need to get on this. What if PRINCE became President? Or Dog the Bounty Hunter? We're going to have a mess on our hands. I'm worried.

Well, I don't think you should worry because the Obamabots have all the answers (childish and retarded sounding though they may be).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 15:47:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#480. To: Jethro Tull (#478)
I don't disagree at all. But I also think that IF there were genuine conservatives in office..........by more than at most a handful, those who have at least "tried" to be loyal to conservatism, as opposed to party loyals, this country would not be in the toilet.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 15:49:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#481. To: Rhino369 (#474)
I read the law months ago when that chart was first created and realized the chart maker is a liar.

Really? Did you challenge him? By what means did you divine it's authenticity? Quija board? Gut feeling?
Nevermind. Playing with partisans is fun. No matter what evidence is presented, people have already made up their minds. It's simple really. Provide the Birth Certificate and end the debate.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:51:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#482. To: James Deffenbach (#479)
Well, I don't think you should worry because the Obamabots have all the answers (childish and retarded sounding though they may be).

That's true. The 'because I say so' crap is about to bite them in the butt.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 15:53:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#483. To: nooz (#481)
Really? Did you challenge him?

Nope. They won't listen to me.

By what means did you divine it's authenticity? Quija board? Gut feeling?

Reading comprehension.

Nevermind. Playing with partisans is fun.

That is funny since I'm not partisan at all. I didn't vote for either of the two parties this last election, except for my Republican congressman, who was in a tight race. And then only to balance out the democrats who I knew would win by a large margin.

No matter what evidence is presented, people have already made up their minds. It's simple really.

Man you saying that is pretty funny.

Provide the Birth Certificate and end the debate.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 15:58:34 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#484. To: James Deffenbach (#416)
What isn't obvious is WHY won't he produce an actual birth certificate? Did the dog eat it? Assuming you had the money and you were running for public office, would YOU spend hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of dollars, to hide your actual birth certificate when you could produce one for less than twenty dollars? And if you would, would that not show that you were unfit for office? Anyone would have to be a fool to go to that expense UNLESS they were hiding something and no one would spend that kind of money who wasn't hiding something. Now what could it be? Baby daddy not who he has always claimed or not born in Hawaii?

this post is so logical, that something has to be fishy
I don't know what ?
you are right, it would have to be either the father is different
or he was not born here
what else could it be ?

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:04:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#485. To: Rhino369 (#483)
That's not an acceptable form of proof.
As you were previously informed....anyone can get that and it doesn't prove where the person was born.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:04:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#486. To: litus (#485)
That's not an acceptable form of proof.

By law its prima facie evidence.

As you were previously informed....anyone can get that and it doesn't prove where the person was born.

Uh no, not just anyone can get one. You don't get to make up your own facts.
PS this is why Obama won't consider your requests. Because no matter what the evidence you will create a new reason for more proof. You all just don't want Obama to be President, therefore he isn't.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:08:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#487. To: Rhino369 (#483)
That's a COLB. He needs a BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

Charges that Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen of the U.S. and, therefore, constitutionally ineligible to serve as president top the list of the 10 most "spiked" or underreported stories of the last year, according to an annual survey.
At the end of each year, news organizations typically present their retrospective replays of what they consider to have been the top news stories in the previous 12 months.
The authors have long considered it far more newsworthy to publicize the most important unreported or underreported news events of the year -- to highlight perhaps for one last time major news stories that were undeservedly "spiked" by the establishment press.
Joseph Farah has sponsored "Operation Spike" every year since 1988.
Here are the picks for the 10 most underreported stories of 2008 -- and four of them are about Obama.

COLBs For Anybody Click the thumbnail to see a large copy of this beautifully printed Certificate of Hawaiian Birth.

It belongs to Sun Yat-Sen, the Father of Modern China, who was born in China.
This Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, dated March 14, 1904, was issued after Dr. Sun signed a raggedy type-written statement affirming that he was born in Hawaii on Nov. 24, 1870.
Sun Yat-sen was born on November 12, 1866, to a peasant family in the village of Cuiheng, Xiangshan county , Guangzhou prefecture, Guangdong province (26 km or 16 miles north of Macau), not Hawaii, as this document affirms.
We know Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's sister has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth too, and she was born in Jakarta, Indonesia. You can be born anywhere and get one.
Source: http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 16:09:42 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#488. To: James Deffenbach (#420)
Sure, you have to respect people's right to believe whatever they choose to believe. But I find it extremely curious that they defend someone who proclaimed that he would run a "transparent" administration, yet he refuses to show his real birth certificate. And he lied about how he would give the public five days to check out bills before he signed them into law. Just another liar and hypocrite like most politicians.

yes Obama is just another typical politician
and a corrupt one to boot
but that is not how my friends and family see him
to them he is the fulfillment of their idealism
they see what they want to see, pure and simple

seeing truth is an act of decision
it means deciding to put truth ahead of all other values
if someone puts some other value ahead of it
they see that, not the truth
which is why, no matter what Obama does, will they change their mind?
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:12:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#489. To: All (#487)
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

Adoption
Implications U. .S law makes it impossible for a parent to PERMANENTLY renounce a minor’s US citizenship. The US is a signatory to the Hague Convention’s standards for international adoption, and those rules do allow the legal parents and guardians to renounce any former citizenship of a custodial minor. Upon reaching the age of 18, the minor can go before the appropriate US State Dept Official and apply for re-instatement of citizenship, and swear allegiance to the US. There is no evidence that Obama has done so, and even if he did, he would then be a NATURALIZED citizen and will forever have lost any natural born citizen status to be president.
If it makes you feel better, "All three of the 2008 presidential candidates, Obama (aka Soetoro), McCain, and Calero were not eligible under Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution to serve as Commander-in-Chief. "

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 16:13:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#490. To: war (#427)
LOL
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:14:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#491. To: Rhino369 (#486)
You all just don't want Obama to be President, therefore he isn't.

Keep telling yourself that.
CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH vs. CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH
What was posted was not a birth certificate, but something that resembles a "Certification of Live Birth" or COLB, which, even if authentic, does not prove "natural born" U.S. citizenship. In Hawaii, a Certification of Live Birth is issued within a year of a child's birth to those who register a birth abroad or one that takes place outside a hospital. An authentice Certificate of Live Birth would be issued to someone born within the state of Hawaii.
OBAMA REFUSE'S TO SHOW HIS 'VAULTED BIRTH CERTIFICATE, PASSPORT, COLLEGE, AND COMPLETE MEDICAL RECORDS.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:16:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#492. To: litus (#428)
I'll still say, imo, Jeff Sessions is one of those. Zell Miller is/was too.

excellent post, Litus
I agree with you
both very good men in my opinion
also Virgil Goode
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:16:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#493. To: Rhino369 (#435)
I don't think our government is illegitimate. Its got some major fucking problems, but nothing that we can't solve by electing better people.

Good post!
I agree
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:18:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#494. To: litus (#491)
CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH vs. CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH
What was posted was not a birth certificate, but something that resembles a "Certification of Live Birth" or COLB, which, even if authentic, does not prove "natural born" U.S. citizenship.

Yes it does.

In Hawaii, a Certification of Live Birth is issued within a year of a child's birth to those who register a birth abroad or one that takes place outside a hospital. An authentice Certificate of Live Birth would be issued to someone born within the state of Hawaii.

They did do that in 1961, that wasn't done until the 1980s, and even then they didn't issue a COLB that says they were born in Honolulu if they were born overseas. Come on.
Do you really think Hawaii gives out documents that says foreigners were born in their state? If so show me one. Should be simple.

OBAMA REFUSE'S TO SHOW HIS 'VAULTED BIRTH CERTIFICATE, PASSPORT, COLLEGE, AND COMPLETE MEDICAL RECORDS.

AND HE DOESN'T HAVE TO!

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:19:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#495. To: palo verde (#492)
I don't need perfection. A resemblance of character, especially these days, would go far. I maintain those two gentlemen have that.
Unfortunately, the bulk in the Senate and House do not. I don't believe we will ever see anything but a rapid deterioration of this country as a result in the future.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:19:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#496. To: Rhino369 (#494)
Explain why he'd rather expend thousands of dollars hiding his birth certificate, expend thousands of dollars fighting lawsuits, which would all end with a likely $5.00 fee for obtaining and producing a certified copy of his birth certificate?
Unless he's got something to hide?

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:22:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#497. To: nooz (#487)
We know Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's sister has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth too, and she was born in Jakarta, Indonesia. You can be born anywhere and get one.

First of all that is an unsubstantiated rumor. I've heard this claimed dozens of times but never once was one ever produced.
And finally that you could perjure yourself and get a birth certificate in 1904 Territorial Hawaii, has no bearing on whether you could do the same in 1961. At the time people were born at home and witness statements where the only way to address birth records. And it had flaws.
Obama and the state of Hawaii claim he was born there. Where is the evidence he wasn't?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:22:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#498. To: litus (#496)
Explain why he'd rather expend thousands of dollars hiding his birth certificate, expend thousands of dollars fighting lawsuits, which would all end with a likely $5.00 fee for obtaining and producing a certified copy of his birth certificate?

Explain why you think he has spent thousands of dollars. Also explain how you go about getting a certified copy of his birth records. Since the Hawaii Vital Records only ships out the COLB.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:23:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#499. To: ALL (#1)
First the USS Liberty then Liberty Forum then Liberty Post.
Next is your/our 'Liberty'.

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-22 16:25:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#500. To: Rhino369 (#498)
What is the Deal on this Birth Certificate
The constitution demands “natural born” so as to mitigate the possibility of “divided loyalties”

One can get a “Certification of Live Birth” with minimal documentation and no eyewitnesses. The date of birth can be any date the person enters! This document can then be used to establish citizenship for the purpose of obtaining a passport, but its lack of physically identifying information found on the "Certification Of Live Birth" precludes it from being useful in proving "Natural Born" status. I guess Obama thinks enough folks are so ignorant that he can get into the Whitehouse before too many find out.

The normal “Birth Certificate” or "Certificate of Live Birth" often but not always contains uniquely identifying information but always has testaments from eyewitness’s (doctor, nurse, orderly) and the specific location so that it is now verifiable and traceable. What Obama’s has displayed in NOT a Birth Certificate, Even if it is real, (there are some forensic experts who say the displayed cert has signs of tampering) it does not provide any kind of traceable proof. This is not the traceable-to-an-individual “Birth Certificate” most any other American would be able to show.
http://peoplespassions.org/peoplesvoice/Birth_Certificate.htm

litus posted on 2009-03-22 16:27:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#501. To: litus (#495)
I don't need perfection. A resemblance of character, especially these days, would go far. I maintain those two gentlemen have that.
Unfortunately, the bulk in the Senate and House do not. I don't believe we will ever see anything but a rapid deterioration of this country as a result in the future.

You read my mind
I too do not demand perfection, but an honest character means everything to me
I cannot abide corruption
and it matters to me that they want to serve the citizens, not special interests
if they have honest character and are honest public servants, they can be wrong on the issues
as long as it is honest mistakes
that is for me personally, let anyone else see those in our government anyway they want
there is no reason anyone else should see as I do
as for the future, I am among those who believe there will be a Planetary Awakening in 2012
so I see all corruption in government ending then
and enlightened government starting then, where we fulfill all the dreams our Forefathers had for us and far far more
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:33:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#502. To: All (#499)

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-22 16:35:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#503. To: Rhino369 (#497)
First of all that is an unsubstantiated rumor. I've heard this claimed dozens of times but never once was one ever produced.
And finally that you could perjure yourself and get a birth certificate in 1904 Territorial Hawaii, has no bearing on whether you could do the same in 1961. At the time people were born at home and witness statements where the only way to address birth records. And it had flaws.
Obama and the state of Hawaii claim he was born there. Where is the evidence he wasn't?

Ah a distraction, rabbit hole move.
ROFL.
Obama has not presented a Birth Certificate which can clear up a number of questions.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 16:38:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#504. To: nooz (#503)
Ah a distraction, rabbit hole move.

Why can't you back up your claims?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 16:39:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#505. To: bluegrass (#350)
The Feds are swamped as there's thousands of them now. I'm a leaderless decentralized cell of one. ; )

That is funny.
The leaderless cell concept are an adaptation from that the old Heinleinian novel, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, where a rebel lunar colony organized that way against the control of Earth. In that story, they were organized by threes.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 16:42:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#506. To: litus (#500)
The normal “Birth Certificate” or "Certificate of Live Birth" often but not always contains uniquely identifying information but always has testaments from eyewitness’s (doctor, nurse, orderly) and the specific location so that it is now verifiable and traceable.

My birth certificate is signed and dated by the doctor who delivered me
plus I was interested to notice, the maternity hospital where I was born
(on East 15th Street in Manhattan)
had a different name then, than when I lived 10 blocks from it later on when I grew up
so the specific location is on my birth certificate too
it's actually an interesting document...
Love, Palo
it might also have on it what time my mom was admitted...

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:44:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#507. To: palo verde (#501)
I am among those who believe there will be a Planetary Awakening in 2012
so I see all corruption in government ending then

2big2fail posted on 2009-03-22 16:44:51 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#508. To: Rhino369 (#504)
Why can't you back up your claims?

I believe I have. And quit asking stupid questions. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem and poor litus is having to walk it through FOR YOU in baby steps. As you mentioned earlier, you saw the chart I posted and called it bullshit. You have yet to explain how you determined that.
Unless you can discredit the source, or at least tell me that you challenged its accuracy by personally emailing the guy, then great, lay your facts out.

But the fact remains that Obama, by law, has to present a Birth Certificate. It's the law. Its not what you just happen to think it is for your convenience, it's just the law.

Wanna see something funny?

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 16:49:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#509. To: Itistoolate (#499)
...then Liberty Forum then Liberty Post

maybe forums have a natural life-span ?
the owner of Liberty Forum (John Deere) left years and years ago
I guess he just didn't want to be on his forum
he was a great guy!! one of the best!!
a beautiful liberty lover
and beautiful human being
as for Liberty Post, maybe Goldi just got fed up
but she would not have got fed up with nonsense
(forums always have nonsense on them, it comes and goes)
unless underneath she wanted to be free of it
we'll find out her true feelings if she puts it back up again
or lets it go
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:53:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#510. To: 2big2fail (#507)
LOL!!!!
is that an ET ship
yup, I believe in ETs too
I am a new age flake in every way
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:56:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#511. To: All (#510)
The CATS are going to the Sweet 16
we just won!!
Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!
Love, Palo
lol being on 4um is bringing me luck!
Now I want us to get into the Final 4

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 16:59:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#512. To: palo verde (#484)
this post is so logical, that something has to be fishy
I don't know what ?
you are right, it would have to be either the father is different
or he was not born here
what else could it be ?

I have tried to think of other reasons why he would refuse to produce it but those are the only ones I can come up with.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 17:21:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#513. To: nooz (#487)
Great post, nooz. You will never get through to the Obamasiah's worshipers even with that but it is good evidence for anyone who has more than two brain cells.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 17:24:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#514. To: palo verde (#488)
which is why, no matter what Obama does, will they change their mind?

Some of them may see the light when he institutes a draft/involuntary servitude and has them doing their "public service."
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 17:26:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#515. To: nooz (#434)
To be a natural born citizen, a person's parents must BOTH be citizens of the United States of America. Further, that person must be born in the United States.

So McStain was no more natural-born than Yomama.
I suspected this was the case.
There is something that is often missing from this discussion of NBC status, namely that it is a constitutional principle. However, a constitution is not itself a law so you have legislation which actually describes the particulars of how the concept of natural-born from the Constitution is applied. Of course, lots of people don't like that but that is how it functions.
To define 'natural-born' under the law, you have to consult the federal statutes, not the rather inexact language in the Constitution.
The law also has to be consistent with the Twelfth and Fourteenth Amendments. I notice a lot of the Birthers seem to be unaware of or in denial about the Fourteenth. If you look at the earliest law on the topic:

"...the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States." - Statutes at Large, 1st Congress, 2nd Session

So natural-born can be understood as strongly patrilineal. Yet, if the American mother of a foreign-born child is unmarried, that child has a much stronger case for being American than if the unmarried American father is. I assume this is so that American mothers can bring their children home but so that fathers (often servicemen overseas) can deny paternity obligations much more easily.
Anyway, we do have an example from the earliest congresses in which the Founders themselves served. Yet, they changed that same statute in 1795 to instead read that such children "shall be considered as citizens of the United States." which would denaturalize foreign-born children of U.S. citizens even though they would still be American citizens. Now this is how most Birthers do read it. Yet, they insist on ignoring (or claiming improper ratification) to deny the Fourteenth Amendment. The Fourteenth Amendment passed in part so that many blacks born in slavery could be considered full citizens though I'm still not sure they were natural-born.
I think a lot of people think being a citizen is one single thing when it clearly is not. There are natural-born citizens, there are birthright citizens, there are American nationals.
This whole issue is kind of piecemeal and varies over time to address various needs or special cases that arise from time to time. You can't really say that this country has ever had a really unified and consistent template for citizenship or natural-born status.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 17:28:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#516. To: Rhino369 (#497)
Obama and the state of Hawaii claim he was born there. Where is the evidence he wasn't?

The evidence is the FACT that he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of someone's money--doubtful it was his--to keep the real birth certificate hidden.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 17:30:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#517. To: James Deffenbach (#513)
Great post, nooz. You will never get through to the Obamasiah's worshipers even with that but it is good evidence for anyone who has more than two brain cells.

Thanks James. It's worse than a shame though.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 17:33:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#518. To: TooConservative (#515)
This whole issue is kind of piecemeal and varies over time to address various needs or special cases that arise from time to time. You can't really say that this country has ever had a really unified and consistent template for citizenship or natural-born status.

Yes it has.
Two American parents and on American soil -- simple as that.
This little page has been really helpful sorting out the arguments that have been in play, if you are interested.
www.theobamafile.com/Oba maNaturalBorn.htm

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 17:38:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#519. To: TooConservative (#505)
Leaderless Resistance by Louis Beam
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-22 17:38:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#520. To: war, sneakypete (#281) (Edited)
Now, they cannot tell you exactly HOW the Towers were brought down only that the catastrophy that we witnessed 9/11 wasn't enough.

If you believe that a 110 story building (make that TWO 110 story buildings) can collapse in slightly more than free fall speed, then you must also believe that the tooth fairy is really the Easter bunny in drag.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 17:44:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#521. To: nooz (#487)
Sun Yat-sen was born on November 12, 1866, to a peasant family in the village of Cuiheng, Xiangshan county , Guangzhou prefecture, Guangdong province (26 km or 16 miles north of Macau), not Hawaii, as this document affirms.

Not really.
No one can prove he was born in China. His official birthplace is Hawaii.
The good news for Yomama is that if you ever get him impeached, convicted and deported is that he can still run for president of China.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 17:46:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#522. To: TooConservative, nooz (#521)
president of China.

Yes he can, but Premier has a nicer ring to it ;-)

Refinersfire posted on 2009-03-22 17:50:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#523. To: litus (#496)
Explain why he'd rather expend thousands of dollars hiding his birth certificate, expend thousands of dollars fighting lawsuits, which would all end with a likely $5.00 fee for obtaining and producing a certified copy of his birth certificate?

It is a good way to get the Right fuming over it and discredit themselves with the rest of the public.
Birthers, meet Truthers. Yep, same thing to the general public.
American public opinion is remarkably uniform and the limit of debate is kept extremely narrow when you compare it to other western countries. This did not happen by accident and has been true since the founding of the nation.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 17:52:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#524. To: TooConservative (#521)
Not really.
No one can prove he was born in China. His official birthplace is Hawaii.

That's pretty interesting. You should email that guy and have him clarify that. If you have a source to offer, I would think he would link to it. I've been going through some of his links. So far, only one 1 dead link, but I was able to validate the story (goofy as it sounds: -- 8,000 Beduins stake their claim as the lost tribe of Barack Obama (video)) by finding the same article referenced at about 6 other websites. The only problem was finding the referenced vid. Drat.

The good news for Yomama is that if you ever get him impeached, convicted and deported is that he can still run for president of China.
Well he does have a (half) brother that lives there.
See Brother Mark: www.theobamafile.com/ObamaFam ily.htm

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 18:00:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#525. To: Refinersfire (#522)
Yes he can, but Premier has a nicer ring to it ;-)

Man, you just won't give our Dark Messiah any respect, willya?
He be da president, whether of America or China or the entire world.
Someday soon, you'll learn that lesson in proper citizenship in a nice FEMA vacation camp. And you'll write letters home praising your camp "counselors" for all they've done to help you grasp these issues.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 18:01:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#526. To: tom007 (#296)
Well OK Then, all one billion of them.

No,numbnuts,just the religious leaders and their fundie followers. The ones who just happen to be Muslim by birth and not conviction don't hate us.
The problem is they ain't the ones in charge anywhere.
Sadly,this has to be explained to you and 3rd graders.
All they hallmarks of an American ignorant bigot, so typical of citizen who should not have a passport.
Eat shit and die.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:02:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#527. To: nooz (#524)
Well he does have a (half) brother that lives there.

I like the Hut Brutha much much better. Limbaugh was merciless on that, made me laugh.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 18:03:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#528. To: Critter (#297)
Is that a roundabout admission that it wouldn't take hundreds of highly skilled workers several months to rig the towers for demolition?

No,but it wouldn't take hundreds and it wouldn't take several months. It probably would have taken a dozen or so experienced demo men between a couple of days to a week to get it all wired properly.
OR.....a couple of guys with enough C-4 packed into a tractor trailer parked in the basement to send it into low earth orbit.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:07:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#529. To: TooConservative (#301)
I posted an objection to an antisemitic thread posted by this Mrs. Yukon.
I used to do that,but then decided to not give those loons the hits on their threads. If nobody ever responded to them they would just go away.
She replied and mentioned something about freedom4um and hinted she was at LP to make trouble.
I doubt that was true. I think "she" was just trying to start a food fight between LP and this forum, to see who would fall for it. She might have been a Leftie, might have been a Klown fallen on hard times.
I think you may be right about that.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:10:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#530. To: TooConservative (#527)
I like the Hut Brutha much much better. Limbaugh was merciless on that, made me laugh.

It's an interesting collection of people that much is clear.
I'm digging it to see if he is related to Kevin Bacon.
If so, then perhaps, we can finally toss out anything in the Constitution that has to do with citizenship, loyalies, and so forth. If you are kin to Bacon, you're in. God knows Brock loves pork. (ba-dum-bum). Who needs laws anyhow.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 18:10:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#531. To: Cynicom, TooConservative (#304)
By your own admission you report people for what you discern as anti semetic, this smacks of total censorship

No,posting to a anti-Semitic thread that you don't like the slant is merely expressing your opinion. That's not censorship. It's free speech.
I think most people find those threads to be nothing more than tiresome rants. Object to what somebody does or says,not who they are.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:18:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#532. To: Cynicom (#306)
Sorry, that still smacks of censorship and not allowed here.

LOL! Are you tired or distracted? You almost have to be or you would realize that what you are championing is censorship of free speech when you say that "objecting to anti-semitic threads that are nothing more than rants is not allowed here."

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:20:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#533. To: sneakypete, Cynicom (#532)
LOL! Are you tired or distracted? You almost have to be or you would realize that what you are championing is censorship of free speech when you say that "objecting to anti-semitic threads that are nothing more than rants is not allowed here."

A liberal tactic, as well.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 18:24:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#534. To: bluegrass (#326)
I'm just trying to yank the chains of those that believe everything they see on the nightly news.

Are you trying to tell me my teebee would lie to me?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:27:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#535. To: TooConservative (#329)
I find Stormfronters to be just as obnoxious and dishonest as the biggest neocon Zionist types.
I also find that both types rely on rumormongering, scaremongering, baseless accusations and such to promote their agendas.
No thanks. I'm not signing up for either side.

WELL SAID!

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:28:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#536. To: Rotara (#333)
I say 'unentangle' ourselves - decouple - and let them duke it out OVER THERE whilst we clean up the quisling mess OVER HERE. I don't care if the enemy within is from mars, all Traitors and foreign agents must leave or die. IMO ;-)

Works for me!

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:29:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#537. To: TooConservative (#523)
It is a good way to get the Right fuming over it and discredit themselves with the rest of the public.

When calling a spade a spade has become something to loathe, it certainly isn't to the discredit of the person stating the obvious or questioning authority. The people who are discredited are the ones who think it's somehow honorable to just shut up and not question fiction.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 18:32:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#538. To: Jethro Tull (#340)
I really,really,REALLY hate that guy. He IS every negative stereotype about Jews that has ever been uttered.
And what is so telling is that the vast majority of the Jews in the northeast seem to love him and think he is a genius. He would have to double his IQ to be as smart as a dog turd.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:32:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#539. To: bluegrass (#343)
I've never understood why Sasha Cohen is famous.

Because he ridicules Christians.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:33:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#540. To: sneakypete, Cynicom, litus (#535)
WELL SAID!

Thanks, pete. I see your lifeboat made it over here to 4um as well.
I did enjoy how my simple descriptive post (which was actually on-topic) was met with repeated veiled threats of "grief" by someone claiming to defend free speech.
I was tempted to hand out one of my coveted Princess Of Irony plaques to Cynicom but I've begun to suspect that people are just trying to score one of these beauties for their very own. Or to sell for big money on eBay.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 18:36:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#541. To: Rhino369 (#376)
You can use the exact document Obama has to get a passport. That is a fucking fact.

I couldn't. Not even when I got my first one in 1965,or my most recent one in 1991. I was required to present a certified true copy of my birth certificate each time.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:40:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#542. To: Refinersfire (#522)
Yes he can, but Premier has a nicer ring to it ;-)

You mean, he doesn't even have to live there first? If that's the case, let's suggest he start running for Premier right now. He's been in this job too long already. He can just say, I know, I've been her 56 days or whatever, and that's not a lot of time sure, but the world needs a change and so I've decided that the problems are too big for me to focus on one tiny little nation of crabgrass and whiners. My record as it stands, has bankrupted that bitter little splotch of dirt in no time at all. I have no standards, I have no papers, I have zero loyalty to anything but tellyprompter 1 and 2. Therefore and without further ado, I, Barry Soetero Baracka Barack Chung Hunseng Husseien Obama McCoy Jackie Chan Tung Patel Hallogen Spritely X, have decided to run for Galactic World Leader. My lovely wife 'Mi' is designing her crown as we speak, and my two biological offsprungs are prepared to wave and snicker at your poor. What we have always said, is a world without bitterness is less offensive. You're welcome world.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 18:43:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#543. To: Jethro Tull (#413)
Who currently in congress or political life isn't a faux conservative?

Walter Jones,R-NC.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:45:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#544. To: James Deffenbach (#416)
What isn't obvious is WHY won't he produce an actual birth certificate?

There are some people who think the reason is because the father named on the birth certificate isn't named Obama.
I don't know what to think myself,other than the obvious fact there is SOMETHING fishy about it or he would have produced it long ago.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:46:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#545. To: nooz (#542)
You mean, he doesn't even have to live there first? If that's the case, let's suggest he start running for Premier right now.

I'm willing to make the sacrifice.
Wait a second. Wouldn't that mean President Biden and his charming hairplugs? Or President McStain and his MILFy wife? Or President Bela Pelosi?
Yeow. We are so screwed.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 18:48:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#546. To: sneakypete (#541)
I was required to present a certified true copy of my birth certificate each time.

That's only because you're a white man.
No, really, I'm quite serious.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 18:49:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#547. To: TooConservative (#545)
I'm willing to make the sacrifice.

I'm in.
Wait a second. Wouldn't that mean President Biden and his charming hairplugs? Or President McStain and his MILFy wife? Or President Bela Pelosi?
Barf.
Yeow. We are so screwed.
It appears it's just getting started.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 18:57:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#548. To: TooConservative (#546)
That's only because you're a white man.

Actually,I'm not. I'm a feather Indian. Not full-blooded,but enough to legally qualify.
Which is one reason I think it's hilarious when idiots accuse me of being a Kluxxer or skinhead neo-Nazi.
Remember the active duty USMC SSG on FR that was a white guy who was married to a black woman? Every once in a while somebody would call HIM a racist,too. Can't remember his name right now,but he was one of the good guys there.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 19:00:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#549. To: sneakypete (#548)
Ferret Mike????

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 19:07:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#550. To: FormerLurker (#520)
Helloo...McFly...anyone home McFly??
You were linked to a report and a graph that makes your characterization look stupid. Yet there you go again.

war posted on 2009-03-22 19:10:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#551. To: TooConservative (#540)
http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/latestcomments.cgi
Tell robin that Cyni sent you.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 19:11:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#552. To: nooz (#464)
Please cite the Title, Chapter and Section of the US Code to which you are referring.
Thanks...

war posted on 2009-03-22 19:11:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#553. To: sneakypete (#541)
I couldn't. Not even when I got my first one in 1965,or my most recent one in 1991. I was required to present a certified true copy of my birth certificate each time.

Yeah, but you're not the one you have been waiting for, the Obamasiah (piss be upon him).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 19:12:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#554. To: nooz (#542)
Great post. I also think the Obamasiah should run for Premiere of China or Mongolia or just about anywhere that would get him out of America.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 19:14:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#555. To: bluegrass (#465)
Asked and andswered. Prior to the founding of the nation, there was no such thing as a US citizen.
You're pretty fucking dense aren't you? You've been confronted with this truth prior and had no cogent rebuttal. Yet here you go again.

war posted on 2009-03-22 19:14:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#556. To: sneakypete (#544)
There are some people who think the reason is because the father named on the birth certificate isn't named Obama.
I don't know what to think myself,other than the obvious fact there is SOMETHING fishy about it or he would have produced it long ago.

Anyone who has any sense at all knows that you don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to hide a document that you could produce for less than twenty dollars if there wasn't something about it that was either very embarrassing or showed that you were not born where you claimed. Has to be one or the other I would think.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 19:16:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#557. To: litus (#485)
As you were previously informed....anyone can get that and it doesn't prove where the person was born.

Actually, only the ACTUAL person or a person with power of attorney can "get that".
That said, what does that birth certificate3 state where Obama was born?

war posted on 2009-03-22 19:18:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#558. To: war (#557)
it's a certification of live birth, as distinguished from a "certificate of live birth" and gives the place of birth as Honolulu, HI.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 19:21:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#559. To: sneakypete (#548)
Which is one reason I think it's hilarious when idiots accuse me of being a Kluxxer or skinhead neo-Nazi.

Which is why ADL invented the concept of self-hating Jew.
You have to admit it's clever rhetoric. Utter nonsense but quite clever.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 19:26:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#560. To: James Deffenbach (#556)
Anyone who has any sense at all knows that you don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to hide a document that you could produce for less than twenty dollars if there wasn't something about it that was either very embarrassing or showed that you were not born where you claimed. Has to be one or the other I would think.

He had more campaign cash than God. This is a guy whose wife orders $500 in caviar for a light afternoon snack, the same guy whose credit rating was so bad he couldn't qualify for a rental car at the 2000 Democrat convention.
The birth certificate has become a Weapon Of Mass Distraction, a windmill for the Birthers to tilt at.
If he had no such controversy for the Right to chew on (and discredit themselves with), he would have had to pay someone to invent one for him.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 19:30:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#561. To: Cynicom (#551)
Tell robin that Cyni sent you.

I'm not going to go hang out with your perverted homo buddies on that gay sex forum so stop begging me.
Your sexual habits make me sick.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 19:33:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#562. To: litus (#558)
it's a certification of live birth, as distinguished from a "certificate of live birth" and gives the place of birth as Honolulu, HI.

Cite the statutory language from the Hawaii State Code that, for purposes of establishing place of birth within its jurisdiction, that certificate lacks legal standing to do so.
Thanks.
That asked, on that form it clearly states that it is a) a certificate b) a true copy or abstract of what is on file and c) valid in any legal proceeding.

war posted on 2009-03-22 19:33:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#563. To: Cynicom (#549)
Ferret Mike????

No,Mike was married to a black woman too,but he is ex-SF from the 80's. Was in on the invasion of Panama.
The guy I am talking about was current active duty at the time. His photo in uniform can be seen on the FR page they post about veterans all the time.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 19:36:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#564. To: TooConservative (#561)
Your sexual habits make me sick.

What you have against straights????

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 19:37:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#565. To: James Deffenbach (#553)
Yeah, but you're not the one you have been waiting for

That's true enough. You ain't seen panic in the streets like you would see if I were the president.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 19:38:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#566. To: sneakypete (#563)
I recall yours from there and Mike but no others.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 19:38:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#567. To: Cynicom (#566)
I recall yours from there and Mike but no others.

Mike is a good guy even though his politics suck,and he posted over on LP for a long time before he was banned. I can't remember why he was banned right now,but I remember that he was. I forget where he is posting now.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 19:42:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#568. To: war (#552)
Please cite the Title, Chapter and Section of the US Code to which you are referring.
Thanks...

Click the link I've given you and quit acting like a child. The answer is right there, got gettem cowboy.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 19:42:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#569. To: sneakypete (#567)
Mike posts here altho he is a rabid Buckwheat fan.
Many of us have been friends since about 97 or 98.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-22 19:44:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#570. To: sneakypete (#526)
No,numbnuts,just the religious leaders and their fundie followers. The ones who just happen to be Muslim by birth and not conviction don't hate us.
The problem is they ain't the ones in charge anywhere.
Sadly,this has to be explained to you and 3rd graders.
All they hallmarks of an American ignorant bigot, so typical of citizen who should not have a passport.
Eat shit and die.
sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 18:02:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

Sweet.
Are you proud of this style of discourse?
I mean really.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-22 19:46:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#571. To: war (#562)
Nope; not interested in doing work for you that you should be researching yourself, if you're that interested.
It's already been cited on at least one or two threads now.
I take it you can read and push buttons...something at which you excel.
See ya.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 19:48:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#572. To: litus (#558)
Hospitals in Hawaii to Obama: You Were Not Born Here!

UPDATE February 2009 Click Here
Supposed Conspiracy Claim Turns REAL on Obama
It is becoming painfully obvious that we may very well have a criminal President in 2009. No this isn’t a joke. What I speak of is the curious developments in the supposedly racist, biased, dumb, as well as insane case of where Obama was born. Why the Barack Obama Birth Certificate Issue Is Legitimate
A strange development indeed is how it is that every time Barack Obama or a family member tells of where Obama was born, they seem to have no idea as of December 2008.

They seemed to know what hospital quite a few times months ago when it was claimed that Obama’s mother gave birth to him at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu - Obama and Mom Never Here
The Queen’s Medical Center 1301 Punchbowl StreetHonolulu, HI 96813 Link to Site Phone number 808-538-9011 General Medical Records 808-547-4361. After it was concluded that Obama and his mother were never there, his sister was in an interview (Mary) and claimed that Obama was born at Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children - Obama and Mom Never Here 1319 Punahou StreetHonolulu, Hawaii 96826(808) 535-7000 Link to site
Hospital after Hospital - all Have No Record of Obama being born or Mom Ever being There. Hospital after hospital in Honolulu all have NO RECORD of Obama or mother ever being there. Is this some state secret? Are we to believe that even the hospital that he was born in should remain secret? Why lie to us as if it matters I mean the man did win the Presidential vote? Why the lies and secrecy? We already know that Obama’s family and the entire nation of Kenya (which is about to have a national holiday for Obama) know that Barack Obama was born in Mombasa Coastal Hospital in Kenya. The government of Kenya has sealed these records. More and more secrecy due to the fact that once proven, Obama will not be constitutionally allowed to become President of the United States!
Rest of the story (if you are interested) here.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 19:48:43 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#573. To: TooConservative (#560)
The birth certificate has become a Weapon Of Mass Distraction, a windmill for the Birthers to tilt at.

uh huh. Sure.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 19:49:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#574. To: nooz (#568)
I am not going to click on a link to a vanity site and increase your trafiic numbers, Moonbat.
All you had to do is cite the law. You failed. I posted the law on another thread. Read it and weap, Dale Evans.

war posted on 2009-03-22 19:50:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#575. To: sneakypete (#565)
You ain't seen panic in the streets like you would see if I were the president.

LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 19:51:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#576. To: James Deffenbach (#572)
Hospital after Hospital - all Have No Record of Obama being born

You just lied Douchenbag.
Obama's birth records at every point are protected by the law. What that means, Moonie, is that a hospital could not tell you whether Obama was born there or not. So anyone claiming that aq hospital has no record, when, in fact, no record can be obtained except by Obama, is a fucking liar.

war posted on 2009-03-22 19:52:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#577. To: litus (#571)
It's already been cited on at least one or two threads now.

By me, Moonie.

war posted on 2009-03-22 19:53:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#578. To: James Deffenbach (#554)
Great post. I also think the Obamasiah should run for Premiere of China or Mongolia or just about anywhere that would get him out of America.

I'm in. But his kids have to stay here and live in the Ozarks.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 19:54:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#579. To: bluegrass (#457)
. As I recall, I gave you an education in Vattel and the writing of the Constitution.

Your memory is faulty.
Vattel is not legal code and, in fact, he states that a few paragraphs into his commentary. English common law is not American law as there is no Constitutional common law.
Now do you remember?

war posted on 2009-03-22 19:57:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#580. To: war (#577)
Nope, dummy.

litus posted on 2009-03-22 20:00:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#581. To: war (#574)
I am not going to click on a link to a vanity site and increase your trafiic numbers, Moonbat.
All you had to do is cite the law. You failed. I posted the law on another thread. Read it and weap, Dale Evans.

Suit yourself, war.
All you had to do is click. With a name like WAR, you'd think you could handle that. Apparently not.
Are you the mascot for Tyson Chicken?

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 20:01:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#582. To: James Deffenbach (#573)
uh huh. Sure.

Why don't you run down to the county GOP meeting or a state GOP convention and start informing the people of the Dark Messiah's citizenship issues?
The men in white coats will arrive shortly and things will become much more clear.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 20:04:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#583. To: Cynicom (#569)
Mike posts here altho he is a rabid Buckwheat fan.

Of course he is. That goes without saying.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 20:11:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#584. To: tom007 (#570)
Are you proud of this style of discourse?

Just using the right wrench for the nut I was tightening up on.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 20:15:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#585. To: sneakypete (#543)
Walter Jones,R-NC.

I have no idea who he is pete. It's probably best I don't since I really hate politicians and the system they use to screw us.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 20:18:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#586. To: Jethro Tull (#585)
I have no idea who he is pete.

He is a Republican congressman that wasn't allowed in the White House for the last 8 years. He represents eastern NC,which includes Camp Lejune. About 2 years ago he gave a anti-Iraq war speech to the Marines at Camp Lejune,and got a standing ovation.
He is also a practicing Catholic,and gets elected by overwhelming percentages in fundie Protestant NC.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 20:21:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#587. To: nooz (#581)
Are you the mascot for Tyson Chicken?

Why?
Are you interested in cock?
Sorry...I'm straight...

war posted on 2009-03-22 20:23:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#588. To: litus (#580)
Nope, dummy.

***SIGH***
The Actual US Citizen By Birth Law
#214. To: bluegrass (#212) From US COde:

Sec. 301. [8 U.S.C. 1401] The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

war posted on 2009-03-06 12:59:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

war posted on 2009-03-22 20:32:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#589. To: sneakypete (#586)
He is also a practicing Catholic,and gets elected by overwhelming percentages in fundie Protestant NC.

Didn't know he was a papist though that's fine with me either way. What impressed me more was his courage in being so antiwar in such a strongly military congressional district with so many military retirees and veterans. That took guts and I think he sweated it for a bit and decided to take a stand on conscience even if it cost him re-election. He is, naturally, a good friend of Ron Paul's and got some campaign money from RP's PAC too.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 20:37:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#590. To: war (#587)
Why?
Are you interested in cock?
Sorry...I'm straight...

You're just being fowl. Ha!
Have another drink.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 20:42:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#591. To: war (#550)
You were linked to a report and a graph that makes your characterization look stupid. Yet there you go again.

Excuse me? The idiotic report you linked gave a minimum collapse speed LESS than the time it would take for a free fall through air, and the chart simply reflected the actual times of the collapse vs an object dropping through thin air.
Did you miss the one that I posted to YOU, indicating it should have taken about 97 seconds?
BTW. Have you ever REALLY looked at any of the collapse photos? It's obvious that MUCH of the top structure's mass disintegrated into dust and was blown out sideways. That being the case, how was there enough mass left over to cause the structure below to collapse?

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 21:17:54 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#592. To: war (#587)
Are you interested in cock?

What, are you cruising for a dinner companion?
Here's some cocks for you, you might find one you like.
Just try not to choke on them, the giant ones would be a bit difficult to swallow I'd think.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-22 21:28:40 ET (2 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#593. To: sneakypete (#584)
Are you proud of this style of discourse?
Just using the right wrench for the nut I was tightening up on.

As I said.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-22 21:31:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#594. To: sneakypete (#31)
The recent favorite is meguro and a couple of others calling me a Kluxxer,despite the fact that I'm not even white,and last time I heard,they weren't accepting people with Indian blood.

All in good fun, sneaky. :-)
Kind of like you claiming I'm Mrs. Yukon.

meguro posted on 2009-03-22 21:36:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#595. To: war (#576)
You just lied Douchenbag

No, you stupid Obamabot, I didn't lie. Can you not see the freakin' LINKS I posted? I didn't make any of that up you dumb cs. Bozo for you dumb@$$.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 21:42:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#596. To: meguro (#594)
Kind of like you claiming I'm Mrs. Yukon.

I always think of you as Mrs. Yukon. LOL.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 21:45:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#597. To: TooConservative (#596)
I always think of you as Mrs. Yukon. LOL.

And I always think of you as brain dead, but whatever.

meguro posted on 2009-03-22 21:46:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#598. To: TooConservative (#596)
I always think of you as Mrs. Yukon. LOL.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha !!
LMAO

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 21:48:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#599. To: meguro (#597)
And I always think of you as brain dead, but whatever.

Daddy didn't love you enough did he ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 21:49:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#600. To: All (#599)
and

600

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 21:49:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#601. To: sneakypete, Rhino369 (#541)
I couldn't. Not even when I got my first one in 1965,or my most recent one in 1991. I was required to present a certified true copy of my birth certificate each time.

I renewed my passport back in 2006. I did not need a birth certificate.

meguro posted on 2009-03-22 21:49:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#602. To: Rotara (#599)
Daddy didn't love you enough did he ?

Daddy loved me and continues to love me today.

meguro posted on 2009-03-22 21:51:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#603. To: war (#588)
Don't tell me this birther crap goes on here too...
Sigh.

meguro posted on 2009-03-22 21:52:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#604. To: meguro, sneakypete (#601)
The only copy I've ever had was a COLB issued 3 days after I was born in Cook County IL in 1985. It has no doctors signature, and has differnent info than what Hawaii's does, some more, and some less.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-22 21:53:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#605. To: meguro (#601)
I renewed my passport back in 2006. I did not need a birth certificate.

That is not the same as saying you didn't need one for the original--you aren't making that claim, are you?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 21:56:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#606. To: meguro (#603)
I've only been here today but so far it seems Birthier, Truthier, and Jewier than LP was. And all of that just on a thread about LP being offline. ;)
You suppose Goldi is just trying to make us miss her? Doesn't she realize just how low our standards really are?
I am wondering where some of LP's fixtures are, people like Yukon or Marguerite or Magician or McCain_Rocks. Probably in severe withdrawal, standing in line down at the methadone clinic by now.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-22 21:57:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#607. To: Rhino369 (#604)
The only copy I've ever had was a COLB issued 3 days after I was born in Cook County IL in 1985. It has no doctors signature, and has differnent info than what Hawaii's does, some more, and some less.

Are you sure you were born in Cook County? Or if your year of birth is correct? They can put anything on there.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 22:02:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#608. To: TooConservative (#606) (Edited)
I've only been here today but so far it seems Birthier, Truthier, and Jewier than LP was.

I can't remember the last time the LP crack house went down, but certainly a lot of discussion with unknowns could have been a shock for some.
You think there should be a birther, Truther, Jewy test?
If goldie is the school marm, then, well, no wonder all the new kids are annoying to you. Reality in a free forum can be trying I suppose.
But I do understand missing your comfort zone. I guess we're all going to have to get used to heavier chains soon.
Aren't you glad you got out for a run now before you are permanently stuck barking at the end of your chain? ;)

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 22:08:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#609. To: nooz (#608) (Edited)
I can't remember the last time the LP crack house went down

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 22:18:03 ET (10 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#610. To: James Deffenbach (#609)
;)
People need a place to vent. A 'now now' and a 'there there' just wont cut it.
Seems the 4um family has been gracious and welcoming.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 22:25:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#611. To: sneakypete (#586)
Walter Jones,R-NC.
He is a Republican congressman that wasn't allowed in the White House for the last 8 years. He represents eastern NC,which includes Camp Lejune. About 2 years ago he gave a anti-Iraq war speech to the Marines at Camp Lejune,and got a standing ovation.
He is also a practicing Catholic,and gets elected by overwhelming percentages in fundie Protestant NC.

thank you for this information about Walter Jones, Pete
I was unaware of him
he sounds like a good man
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 22:26:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#612. To: nooz (#608) (Edited)
If goldie is the school marm, then, well, no wonder all the new kids are annoying to you. Reality in a free forum can be trying I suppose.

Well said. One would think a visitor would leave ill manners at the door with their dirty shoes when visiting. Once the Jewess finds a working wall socket for that server they will return from whence they came. I suppose the transition between a heavy handed, war mongering moderator, to a hands off model is probably a tad shocking.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 22:28:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#613. To: nooz (#610)
Seems the 4um family has been gracious and welcoming.

Yeah, too much so in some cases.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 22:28:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#614. To: TooConservative (#589)
Walter Jones,R-NC
What impressed me was his courage in being so antiwar in such a strongly military congressional district with so many military retirees and veterans. That took guts and I think he sweated it for a bit and decided to take a stand on conscience even if it cost him re-election. He is, naturally, a good friend of Ron Paul's and got some campaign money from RP's PAC too.

Thank you very much for this post, TC
Walter Jones sounds great
I will keep my eye out for him now
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 22:29:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#615. To: Jethro Tull (#612)
Well said. One would think a visitor would leave ill manners at the door with their dirty shoes when visiting. Once the Jewess finds a working wall socket for that server they will return from whence they came. I suppose the transition between a heavy handed, war mongering moderator, to a hands off model is probably a tad shocking.

When the country gets all Mad Max, they'll be begging for somebody to hep'em.
tee hee.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 22:32:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#616. To: James Deffenbach (#613)
Yeah, too much so in some cases.

Nah. True class never goes out of style.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 22:33:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#617. To: TooConservative (#589)
Didn't know he was a papist though that's fine with me either way.
I'm probably not the most religious person you know,and it doesn't bother me,either.
What impressed me more was his courage in being so antiwar in such a strongly military congressional district with so many military retirees and veterans. That took guts and I think he sweated it for a bit and decided to take a stand on conscience even if it cost him re-election.
It's called principles,and most politicians don't seem to have them.
He is, naturally, a good friend of Ron Paul's and got some campaign money from RP's PAC too.
He was also good friends with Jesse Helms.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 22:44:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#618. To: TooConservative, war (#596)
Kind of like you claiming I'm Mrs. Yukon.
I always think of you as Mrs. Yukon. LOL.

Thanks for saying what I was too polite to say.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 22:45:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#619. To: nooz (#616)
I get royally pi$$ed when some numbskull accuses me of lying. I guess the poor fellow can't make out the links I put in the post and thought I just made it up. I didn't write ANY of it, just posted it. And included the links for anyone who wanted to read it. But he is in thrall to Obama. He is so stupid he thinks there is some difference between establishment stooges.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 22:46:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#620. To: meguro (#601)
I renewed my passport back in 2006. I did not need a birth certificate.

Could this have been because your current passport hadn't expired?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 22:47:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#621. To: Rhino369 (#604)
The only copy I've ever had was a COLB issued 3 days after I was born in Cook County IL in 1985.

I have a certified true copy of my birth certificate.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 22:48:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#622. To: palo verde (#611)
he sounds like a good man

He is. He is a very good man. Honest,and a patriot who puts country ahead of himself and party.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 22:50:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#623. To: Jethro Tull (#612)
I suppose the transition between a heavy handed, war mongering moderator, to a hands off model is probably a tad shocking.

ROFLMAO! Most people complain about her NOT doing any moderating at all,and the people here on "free speech 4um" have done nothing but complain about people from LP expressing our viewpoints ever since we started coming here.
Guess what? You could say "I HATE JEWS!" on LP and be just as ignored as saying "I LOVE JEWS" there.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 22:54:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#624. To: James Deffenbach (#619)
I get royally pi$$ed when some numbskull accuses me of lying. I guess the poor fellow can't make out the links I put in the post and thought I just made it up. I didn't write ANY of it, just posted it. And included the links for anyone who wanted to read it. But he is in thrall to Obama. He is so stupid he thinks there is some difference between establishment stooges.

Joke'em. You know?
Can't really waste time on them but it's fun to spin'em.
Look at who got all haired up from LP today. Wasn't that a riot? Predictable toons. ACME gear for Wile E Coyote. Cracks ME Up.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 22:56:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#625. To: sneakypete (#622)
Walter Jones
He is a very good man. Honest,and a patriot who puts country ahead of himself and party.

Thank you for this post, Pete
it means a lot to me
Your endorsement of Walter Jones counts to me
I am grateful he is in our House of Representatives, and I will focus my attention on him now
You did good for me
Thank you
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 22:57:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#626. To: sneakypete (#623)
People complaining isn't moderation. Let me think of the last person christine put in time out like LOX does....ah.... that would be nobody.
The difference is huge.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 23:01:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#627. To: sneakypete (#620)
Could this have been because your current passport hadn't expired?

Sounds like he is spinning to me. You will notice he didn't make that claim about getting the passport the first time.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 23:02:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#628. To: sneakypete (#621)
I have a certified true copy of my birth certificate.

So do I. In fact I have two of them.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 23:03:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#629. To: nooz (#624)
Oh yeah, I knew about some of them and how they loved them some Obama before they infested the place.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 23:05:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#630. To: James Deffenbach (#628)
So do I. In fact I have two of them.

roflmao

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 23:07:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#631. To: Jethro Tull (#626)
People complaining isn't moderation.

Jethro,that's the very point I was making a couple of hundred posts ago on this thread. Sure,some people may have been quick to scream for mama to come protect them from the bad mans over on LP,but it never seemed to help them. Victoria even tried to play the anti-Semite card over there and get Goldi to go along with her,and it was Victoria that got banned instead of the people she was demanding be banned.
I'm not going to defend Goldi for banning all of the people that she has banned. I prefer that nobody be banned for expressing a opinion no matter how unpopular,but that's just me riding my high horse. I probably would have banned more people than Goldi if it had been my web site,and for much less reason.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-22 23:07:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#632. To: nooz (#630)
No, I really do have two certified copies of my birth certificate.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 23:09:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#633. To: James Deffenbach (#629)
Oh yeah, I knew about some of them and how they loved them some Obama before they infested the place.

Well now that is strange. Provacateurs or protecting their turf? Pay per postettes?

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 23:10:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#634. To: James Deffenbach (#619)
I get royally pi$$ed when some numbskull accuses me of lying.

was it War?
yes War and I are dear friends because I have been on forums with him since my very first one
back at Y2K (Lucianne)
and he has redeeming qualities
but you do realize he is only on forums to drive posters up the wall
he has no other purpose for being on
all his posts are designed to do that
our friendship not withstanding, his political posts to me are designed to drive me up the wall too
he had already left LP few months ago on his own, I don't know when he arrived here
but he is hardly a typical LP poster, since his purpose is to drive us nuts :)
Yes I love him, and yes he has friends on LP
but that is because sometimes he breaks out of his "pest" role to engage in normal friendly discourse
he is a nice guy
but obviously there is no way to see it when he is posting for the express purpose of upsetting everyone
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 23:10:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#635. To: James Deffenbach (#632)
No, I really do have two certified copies of my birth certificate.

LOL, okay. It just sounded funny at first.
I have copies of mine too. But its hard to take a stone tablet to the DMV. :)

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 23:11:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#636. To: nooz (#633)
Provacateurs or protecting their turf? Pay per postettes?

Nah, just everyday, garden variety political whores who believe in fairy tales, that a politician with a D after his name is far superior to his exact ideological double with an R after his name.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 23:12:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#637. To: James Deffenbach (#619)
I get royally pi$$ed when some numbskull accuses me of lying.

if that poster is War, he accuses everyone of lying
that is his stock and trade, he is not on for truth
but to infuriate posters

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 23:13:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#638. To: palo verde (#634)
was it War?

Yeah, it was. I put the Obama-loving retard on my bozo filter. I don't appreciate being called a liar by anyone, especially by morons.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 23:14:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#639. To: palo verde (#637)
he is not on for truth
but to infuriate posters

Well, if that is what he wants he certainly got his wish.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-22 23:15:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#640. To: Cynicom (#386)
The refugees from LP brought all of their love of government and hate of everything not Jew with them.

Yeah my 20 bozo spaces will be full in no time.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-22 23:16:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#641. To: James Deffenbach (#636)
Nah, just everyday, garden variety political whores who believe in fairy tales, that a politician with a D after his name is far superior to his exact ideological double with an R after his name.

Got it. Even whores know when they are being taken for a ride. Some of these folks act like they HAVE to lie or be stood on a box with a hood and wires.

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 23:17:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#642. To: sneakypete (#631)
I left LP in '03, and like tFR, haven't looked back. I'd guess the biggest difference in the two forums, is that y'all are free to post whatever u like here, while we are all banned there for (mostly) resisting her pimping for war. I'll never forget when she told me Palistanians belonged in cages b/c they were animals. I carried her exact words as my tag line when I posted on FU. IIRC, the last time we experienced an influx of LP'ers was when she silenced the Ron Paul folks. What was that about?

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-22 23:18:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#643. To: sneakypete (#631)
I'm not going to defend Goldi for banning all of the people that she has banned. I prefer that nobody be banned for expressing a opinion no matter how unpopular,but that's just me riding my high horse. I probably would have banned more people than Goldi if it had been my web site,and for much less reason.

I could never even be a host of a forum
to give a platform for those who express views anathema to mine
a person would have to be a saint
altho I agree with you, no one should be banned for expressing an opinion
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 23:18:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#644. To: sneakypete (#631)
Considering Goldi's rabid hate of Palestinians, it is really not a good idea to even look at that site much less post there. She doesn't deserve the hits or the comments. She deserves a big fat zero.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-22 23:23:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#645. To: sneakypete (#631)
I'm not going to defend Goldi for banning all of the people that she has banned. I prefer that nobody be banned for expressing a opinion no matter how unpopular,but that's just me riding my high horse. I probably would have banned more people than Goldi if it had been my web site,and for much less reason.

How many did you run off?

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 23:24:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#646. To: James Deffenbach (#638)
I put him on my bozo filter

very sensible!
a bozo filter is designed to protect your peace
and after 9 years he is really expert at ruining it :)
if he is still on 4um at football season you can take him off then
he is passionate about football and posts sincerely
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 23:25:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#647. To: James Deffenbach, PALO VERDE (#420)
Sure, you have to respect people's right to believe whatever they choose to believe. But I find it extremely curious that they defend someone who proclaimed that he would run a "transparent" administration

Here's where we diverge Miss Palo.
One may respect people's right to believe (fill in the blank)...but one does not
have to respect what they believe, and is even
obligated to fight what they believe with every fiber of their being
if it is destroying life and liberty.
Meanwhile, the Tolerant among us stand by while Lady Liberty is gang raped.
The usa needs a systemic overhaul from the top down,
as does everything we've been taught to believe in our government school brainwashing factories.
I refer you to http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=97098&Disp=45#C45 this post......and this post http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=97182&Disp=7#C7
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-22 23:30:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#648. To: IndieTX (#647)
bump

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 23:32:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#649. To: nooz (#635)
But its hard to take a stone tablet to the DMV

LOL :P

christine posted on 2009-03-22 23:33:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#650. To: sneakypete (#620)
I renewed my passport back in 2006. I did not need a birth certificate.
Could this have been because your current passport hadn't expired?

Correct. It had not expired.

meguro posted on 2009-03-22 23:35:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#651. To: palo verde (#646)
very sensible! a bozo filter is designed to protect your peace and after 9 years he is really expert at ruining it :) if he is still on 4um at football season you can take him off then he is passionate about football and posts sincerely Love, Palo

Hi Palo,
How are you sweetheart? I see we are all posting here now (LP's alter ego) because LP is down.
Love,
Meguro

meguro posted on 2009-03-22 23:38:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#652. To: IndieTX (#647)
We are a people who obey out of fear, not a sense of what is right and good. It should be illegal for lawyers to hold any elected government office.
Meanwhile, Americans go to prison for petty theft, whilst their adversaries in the Elite and in government steal, invade privacy, violate the constitution they are sworn to uphold, and murder daily..completely unmolested by laws or consequences. Our lives have become open books to be exploited and controlled by the Elite and their institutions. The entire world has access to a man's credit rating and can even deny him an employment position because of it, yet our politicians tell us "the past does not matter" when it concerns their misadventures.
It is time for a revolution of ideas, not just power change. It is time to examine everthing we've been told from 1776 onward.

outstanding. i'm glad you linked that. i had missed it.

christine posted on 2009-03-22 23:38:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#653. To: James Deffenbach, rotara, psusa (#636)
that a politician with a D after his name is far superior to his exact ideological double with an R after his name.

We know posters here like that. The kind that duck dodge hide by saying things like "Both parties are corrupt but republicans are evil.." It's the "BUT" that exposes their true colors. My patience...tolerance if you will...is gone for those who participate in this mad display of cognitive dissonance.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-22 23:43:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#654. To: James Deffenbach (#627)
Sounds like he is spinning to me. You will notice he didn't make that claim about getting the passport the first time.

Spinning? LOL! Whatever you say, dude.
Yes, I'm sure I needed a birth certificate when I got my first passport, although it was when I was a young lad, so I don't really remember.

meguro posted on 2009-03-22 23:43:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#655. To: meguro (#651)
I see we are all posting here now (LP's alter ego)

What does that mean?

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 23:44:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#656. To: christine (#649)
LOL :P

Try to find a wallet!

nooz posted on 2009-03-22 23:46:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#657. To: christine, redpanther (#652) (Edited)
outstanding. i'm glad you linked that.

Thank you. My list in the second linked post is incomplete..but it's a start.
--The government set up by the Constitution-- "is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other."
--- -Benjamin Franklin

--The arrogance shown by the British in seizing a couple of hundred American merchantmen is a trait to be found in Adam's own countrymen-- "The United States is Britain's very image and superscription . . . as true a gamecock as she and, I warrant you, shall become as great a scourge to mankind."
----John Adams

TheSystem needs a revolution of ideas. Ron Paul doesn't go nearly far enough. We need to revisit everything from 1776 to the present and overhaul the entire system, beginning with:
term limits on all governments offices (local state fed) [one place where the founders really screwed up]
overhauling the unjust and tyrannical LegalIndustrialComplex including but not limited to a citizen review board with power to oversee and investigate and reverse any judicial and police action including miscarriages of justice in the courtrooms thereby ending the supreme power of judges and lying police over the Liberty of the people
repealing the income tax
repealing all gun laws. period.
ending the two party system
outlawing all contributions to politicians serving and running for office
ending all foreign aid and foreign wars
eliminating the federal reserve
an immediate forgiveness of the outstanding consumer debt of every AmeriKan
ending the H1B Visa program forcing employers to hire Americans
repeal of SHAFTA
ending Social Security contributions for all Americans and allowing them to keep their money
immediate distribution back to the people of all money stolen from Americans in the form of SS taxes in a lump sum regardless of age
an end to the accumulation and storing of American's personal information from medical records to credit reports
an end to the "wars on _____" with the immediate legalization of all naturally growing plants and a release of all in prison solely for possession of these substances
destroying the no-fly list
implementing national right to carry reinforcing the Second Amendment
ban lawyers from serving in public office.
expose the truth behind 911 with an unlimited investigation that can be stopped by no person, agency or lawyer with all records being subject to publication and review, with no claim of "national security" being sufficient to stop their release
Immediate deportation of all illegal aliens.
Lawyers, bankers, judges, LEO agencies (all levels) with no oversight to their misdeeds, domestic traitors in government, and business interests have long held the reigns of power over the rights of the people. This will end. Freedom takes guts. That's just the beginning of this revolution... All ideas should be considered.
The LegalIndustrialComplex in this country (supposedly-along with the founding documents-based on "religious" ideals) is the anti-thesis of everything moral. I'll leave religion out of it. Too many have been killed in its name. It would take an entire manuscript to even scratch the surface on this topic. Leave it best to say only that our LIC is not about "justice" nor is it about altruism.
Many are in prison who do not belong there. Virtually every "crime" worthy of incarceration carries with it a figurative death sentence of destroyed lives with no other purpose than the perpetuation of the lie that somehow the American legal system is just and sound.
Do all crimes deserve the death penalty as stated above? Should all violators (I refuse to acknowledge the word "criminal" because it is has invalid and incorrect connotations) have their wealth and families destroyed during and after a trial for which there is an almost certain chance they will be found guilty...not by any preponderance of the evidence, but due to unconstitutional judge's instructions, "testilying" by police, incompetent defense and Evil laws that should never have been written in the first place???
Should people be expected to have their lives destroyed merely waiting for a trial in a kangaroo court when they are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty?
There are too many unjust laws on the books. There are too many laws on the books.. period. Because who defines "just?" Anything has become an excuse to deprive a supposedly free people from their Liberty. Indeed, everyone has been deemed a criminal by the law. The unlucky time will come when the the persecutors decide to use the law to their own ends...indeed that time has already come. Lawyers, along with the warped sense of justice from which they derive their profession, have destroyed the fabric of the nation. We are a people who obey out of fear, not a sense of what is right and good. It should be illegal for lawyers to hold any elected government office.
Meanwhile, Americans go to prison for petty theft, whilst their adversaries in the Elite and in government steal, invade privacy, violate the constitution they are sworn to uphold, and murder daily..completely unmolested by laws or consequences. Our lives have become open books to be exploited and controlled by the Elite and their institutions. The entire world has access to a man's credit rating and can even deny him an employment position because of it, yet our politicians tell us "the past does not matter" when it concerns their misadventures.
It is time for a revolution of ideas, not just power change. It is time to examine everthing we've been told from 1776 onward.
Don't tread on me.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-22 23:46:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#658. To: meguro (#651)
Hi darling
I am happy to see you
It is very gracious of Christine to let us post here while LP is down
and I do not know if Goldi will put it back up ?
No one seems to know
I don't know where I will wind up if Goldi decides to pull the plug for sure
I'm such a nut I do better on forums with wide range of views
(then no one notices how peculiar I am :)
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 23:48:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#659. To: IndieTX (#653)
We know posters here like that. The kind that duck dodge hide by saying things like "Both parties are corrupt but republicans are evil.." It's the "BUT" that exposes their true colors. My patience...tolerance if you will...is gone for those who participate in this mad display of cognitive dissonance.

National Globalist partisans are nothing but a distraction at this point.
noisy clutter

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-22 23:48:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#660. To: IndieTX (#647)
Here's where we diverge Miss Palo.
One may respect people's right to believe (fill in the blank)...but one does not have to respect what they believe, and is even
obligated to fight what they believe with every fiber of their being
if it is destroying life and liberty.
Meanwhile, the Tolerant among us stand by while Lady Liberty is gang raped.
The usa needs a systemic overhaul from the top down,
as does everything we've been taught to believe in our government school brainwashing factories

O my sweet love, I am happy to see you
It's been a long time
and you were always one of my favorite posters
I agree with what you wrote above
you've always been a passionate patriot and lover of truth
Love, Palo
I am not a good fighter but I will always stand up for truth and liberty to the best of my ability

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 23:56:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#661. To: IndieTX (#657)
This is a superb post
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-22 23:58:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#662. To: nooz (#608)
You think there should be a birther, Truther, Jewy test?

No. There is some limit for my patience with people who have an absolute monomania for such subjects, who demand that everyone share their obsession, that every conversation must be turned to the object of their passion, that they have discovered the One Great Truth that connects all their obsessions into a cohesive totality that can explain all that is wrong with the world since I find those belief systems to be essentially religious dogma, not something you can test factually.
Of course, if you want to hand out awards for the Birthiest, the Truthiest, and the Jewiest posts here at 4um, I might find that entertaining.

If goldie is the school marm, then, well, no wonder all the new kids are annoying to you. Reality in a free forum can be trying I suppose.

I thought Goldi had become almost invisible. I did notice that certain threads disappeared after a few weeks, something I've seen before from mods on other forums and something I think is dishonest. I never like forums pretending they haven't hosted a particular kind of discussion. As for the "new kids" you think I'm encountering here, you might be surprised just how many folks I knew here back in the old days at FR. I had a different handle then.

Aren't you glad you got out for a run now before you are permanently stuck barking at the end of your chain? ;)

And you guys aren't? And I would bet I could find topics that could get me banned from this forum if I gave it some thought. I doubt 4um is quite so free as some of you claim. OTOH, I'm not interested in being quite that antisocial; it defeats the purpose of such forums and I don't like disruptors.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 0:00:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#663. To: IndieTX (#657)
I am reading this again
and just made a copy of it for myself
I am in awe
it is so real, so profound, so true, and with such kind beautiful spirit
Thank you
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 0:01:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#664. To: TooConservative (#662)
And I would bet I could find topics that could get me banned from this forum if I gave it some thought.

Try 1 (ONE).

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:03:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#665. To: sneakypete (#623)
ROFLMAO! Most people complain about her NOT doing any moderating at all,and the people here on "free speech 4um" have done nothing but complain about people from LP expressing our viewpoints ever since we started coming here.

No matter how hard they try, I'm not handing out any of my classy Princess Of Irony wall plaques.

I probably would have banned more people than Goldi if it had been my web site,and for much less reason.

You're such a soft touch. If I were a moderator, I would have banned myself. Now that's real moderation.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 0:08:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#666. To: Rotara (#664)
Try 1 (ONE).

You first. ;)
The owner does reserve the right to ban. So I assume it does happen.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 0:09:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#667. To: meguro (#651)
here now (LP's alter ego)

hmmmm. i don't think so.
but welcome, meguro, nevertheless. ;)

christine posted on 2009-03-23 0:14:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#668. To: Jethro Tull (#642)
IIRC, the last time we experienced an influx of LP'ers was when she silenced the Ron Paul folks. What was that about?

I never did figure that out because I was/am a "Ron Paul folks" and I was never banned.
My vague recollection is one or two RP supporters were banned for continually filling up the breaking news box with RP campaign press releases,and not stopping when asked.
I may be wrong,though. I wasn't really involved in any of that.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:14:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#669. To: TooConservative, christine (#666)
Try 1 (ONE).
You first. ;)
The owner does reserve the right to ban. So I assume it does happen.

Is there a topic for which banning is mandatory Miss Christine ?
***
In my experience it would seem you would have to personally insult her, directly, to get banned.
Of course the National Globalist Traitors, forced to defend the indefensible, have been known to combust spontaneously the further they ply the Law of Holes.
;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:14:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#670. To: TooConservative (#662)
You think there should be a birther, Truther, Jewy test? No. There is some limit for my patience with people who have an absolute monomania for such subjects, who demand that everyone share their obsession, that every conversation must be turned to the object of their passion, that they have discovered the One Great Truth that connects all their obsessions into a cohesive totality that can explain all that is wrong with the world since I find those belief systems to be essentially religious dogma, not something you can test factually.
Of course, if you want to hand out awards for the Birthiest, the Truthiest, and the Jewiest posts here at 4um, I might find that entertaining.

If goldie is the school marm, then, well, no wonder all the new kids are annoying to you. Reality in a free forum can be trying I suppose. I thought Goldi had become almost invisible. I did notice that certain threads disappeared after a few weeks, something I've seen before from mods on other forums and something I think is dishonest. I never like forums pretending they haven't hosted a particular kind of discussion. As for the "new kids" you think I'm encountering here, you might be surprised just how many folks I knew here back in the old days at FR. I had a different handle then.

Aren't you glad you got out for a run now before you are permanently stuck barking at the end of your chain? ;) And you guys aren't? And I would bet I could find topics that could get me banned from this forum if I gave it some thought. I doubt 4um is quite so free as some of you claim. OTOH, I'm not interested in being quite that antisocial; it defeats the purpose of such forums and I don't like disruptors.

If you doubt 4um is quite so free, you must have a basis for that. What is it?
General programming from the treatment and indoctrination from other forums?
Why would you say such a thing considering that such a statement in itself is poking the host and guests, as this is a free forum and has never asked for a dime to run it.
Rather rude, don't you think?
As for your limits, why do I need to know that? Did you wonder about mine? Should we have a pact to to tread lightly with each other, or just do the basic, treat others as you wish to be treated?
No one asked me to pass a test to post here.
No one has threatened me or intimidated me for my opinions.
No one ran to call a moderator moment around here as far as I can see.
What is the problem.
Too Jewy, Too Truthy, Too Birther. Pretty much your words.
So what is it that bothers you to make you think something is TOO much?
conversation, discussion is not always a DEBATE of ideas, but sharing what's on your mind. It doesn't always have to have a winner or loser, but to my way of thinking it plants a few seeds. To see things as others view them, is an exercise that enables growth and a measure of what you are 'allowed' to know and speak.
Not a bad thing at all.
And, the best part, if you ignore someone for being an a-hole, bet on you being on someones list too.
Kumbayaa was always sang at camp.
I'm not planning to go to camp again.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 0:14:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#671. To: palo verde (#643)
I could never even be a host of a forum to give a platform for those who express views anathema to mine a person would have to be a saint

And nobody ever accused me of being a saint. My mother even used to tell me when I was a kid to never get any tattoos because they would make it easier for the police to identify me. No kidding.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:16:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#672. To: sneakypete (#668)
My vague recollection is one or two RP supporters were banned for continually filling up the breaking news box with RP campaign press releases,and not stopping when asked.

She took repeated dumps on Ron Paul and his supporters and in turn she got what she deserved.
Now she's MIA.
Wish I cared. NOT !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:16:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#673. To: palo verde (#661)
Thank you Palo. How are things out in the southwest?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-23 0:17:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#674. To: christine (#667)
hmmmm. i don't think so.

LOL! I was just saying that in jest. It just seems that a lot of LP posters are here as well, so there is clearly some kind of link. I recognize the software as being nearly identical, with a few improvements over LP's. I guess it's Neil's software that runs both sites.
but welcome, meguro, nevertheless. ;)
Thank you very much, Christine. Glad to be here.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:18:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#675. To: nooz (#645)
How many did you run off?

I'm not aware of ever running anybody off. Who am I to run people off? I never asked Goldi to ban anybody,and doubt if it would have done me any good if I had. In fact,I posted to threads about the banees and asked her there to allow them back on. Even idiots like Badeye. That didn't do much good either. It seems I had zero influence.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:19:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#676. To: palo verde (#658)
Hi darling I am happy to see you It is very gracious of Christine to let us post here while LP is down and I do not know if Goldi will put it back up ? No one seems to know I don't know where I will wind up if Goldi decides to pull the plug for sure I'm such a nut I do better on forums with wide range of views (then no one notices how peculiar I am :) Love, Palo

Why not stay here, palo?
Love,
Meguro

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:19:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#677. To: nooz (#670)
Too Jewy, Too Truthy, Too Birther. Pretty much your words.

Too Rothschild-y ! Too NAU-y ! LOL

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:20:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#678. To: meguro (#650)
Could this have been because your current passport hadn't expired?
Correct. It had not expired.

Ok,that explains why you didn't need a birth certificate. Your current passport served the same purpose.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:20:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#679. To: sneakypete (#675)
Even idiots like Badeye.

You just wanted Boteye to stay so you could make him look silly. :-) And I must say, you did a pretty good job of it. :-)

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:21:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#680. To: All (#672)
Fuck that Israel-first bitch !!!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:21:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#681. To: sneakypete (#678)
Ok,that explains why you didn't need a birth certificate. Your current passport served the same purpose.

OK. Got it. I didn't realize you were getting a new one, as opposed to renewal.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:21:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#682. To: meguro (#679)
You just wanted Boteye to stay so you could make him look silly. :-) And I must say, you did a pretty good job of it. :-)

Bushbots and Obamabots get the same treatment around here that any degenerate should expect.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:22:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#683. To: Rotara (#682)
Bushbots and Obamabots get the same treatment around here that any degenerate should expect.

Civility? :-)

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:23:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#684. To: TooConservative (#665)
You're such a soft touch.

What can I say? I've gotten mellow in my old age.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:24:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#685. To: meguro (#683)
More like the gallows ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:24:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#686. To: nooz (#655)
What does that mean?

See post #674.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:25:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#687. To: sneakypete (#675)
I'm not aware of ever running anybody off. Who am I to run people off? I never asked Goldi to ban anybody,and doubt if it would have done me any good if I had. In fact,I posted to threads about the banees and asked her there to allow them back on. Even idiots like Badeye. That didn't do much good either. It seems I had zero influence.

SP, you might forget your history, but I don't.
That was one hell of a sales job tho'.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 0:25:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#688. To: Rotara (#685)
More like the gallows ;-)

Yikes! Well, at least it's not a zot.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:26:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#689. To: Rotara (#677)
Too Rothschild-y ! Too NAU-y ! LOL

The Fema Camper crossing guards are a hoot.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 0:26:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#690. To: meguro (#679)
You just wanted Boteye to stay so you could make him look silly. :-) And I must say, you did a pretty good job of it. :-)

I can't take credit for what Mother Nature does.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:27:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#691. To: meguro (#688)
Yikes! Well, at least it's not a zot.

We drown viking kitties in the back room for snuff sport flicks.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:28:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#692. To: IndieTX (#673)
Thank you Palo. How are things out in the southwest?

You are welcome, Indie
I don't want to make you blush or embarrass you, but I can't tell you how much your post meant to me
It is completely inspiring to read
I never read so many truths altogether like that, and I love the ending, about revolution in ideas
it is a gorgeous post
LOL here in Tucson our weather now is like summer in the North
which means totally delightful
our real summer is a blast furnace, and like being on another planet
but right now I am in heaven with this paradise
How is it where you live?
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 0:28:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#693. To: nooz (#687)
SP, you might forget your history, but I don't.

Really? Who have I ever had banned?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:28:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#694. To: nooz (#689)
The Fema Camper crossing guards are a hoot.

Was that Hu or Jose ? ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:29:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#695. To: Rotara (#691)
We drown viking kitties in the back room for snuff sport flicks.

ROTFL!! So Boteye doesn't post here?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:29:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#696. To: war (#588)
I didn't say you have posted comments on it; but you haven't been the only poster posting statutes and laws concerning this subject.
Unless you've got everyone on bozo that you disagree with, it'd be hard to miss the posts.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 0:30:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#697. To: meguro (#695)
So Boteye doesn't post here?

That particular odor hasn't been detected here for some time afaik.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:30:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#698. To: palo verde (#692)
LOL here in Tucson our weather now is like summer in the North which means totally delightful our real summer is a blast furnace, and like being on another planet but right now I am in heaven with this paradise How is it where you live? Love, Palo

The cherry trees are about to blossom here, sweet palo.
If only we could share a bottle of sake under the beautiful flowers.
I'm glad to see you don't hate me.
Love,
Meguro

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:31:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#699. To: Rotara (#697)
That particular odor hasn't been detected here for some time afaik.

It seems the only place he can post without wearing out his welcome is Free Republic.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:32:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#700. To: meguro (#699)
700

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:32:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#701. To: sneakypete (#668)
My vague recollection is one or two RP supporters were banned for continually filling up the breaking news box with RP campaign press releases,and not stopping when asked.

I was a big RP fan and I thought it was repetitious overkill.
No forum for free speech is obligated to let itself become a platform for one particular group or even a few very dedicated posters.
I did notice that after RP articles were largely banned, for some reason you had a steady daily stream of Paul-hater threads posted. Those somehow never seemed to get pulled. This went on long after Ron Paul's campaign ended and were obvious hit pieces.
More recently, you could see a very large number of Birther threads. OTOH, those seemed to displace the huge numbers of the "GUESS WHO" threads about illegals and crimes they committed.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 0:32:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#702. To: meguro (#686)
See post #674.

I follow your point, but is that what you really meant?

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 0:35:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#703. To: meguro (#699)
It seems the only place he can post without wearing out his welcome is Free Republic.

They were made for each other. Those idiots (you'd have to be one to stay - continue on there) represent National Globalist "R" trash.
Other lunatics were made for DU or some people's place dump or the other Israel first site that is stuck in the mud now.
The craziest foxes hang in da 4um. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:35:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#704. To: Rotara (#694)
Was that Hu or Jose ? ;-)

I saw nothink.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 0:36:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#705. To: sneakypete, palo verde (#668)
My vague recollection is one or two RP supporters were banned for continually filling up the breaking news box with RP campaign press releases,and not stopping when asked.

My recollection is that beyond Goldi's claim that "every other thread" being posted was about Ron Paul, there was lots of "spamming" type of threads, which Goldi decided to blame on "Ron Paul posters."
IIRC, that was a bald face lie. She didn't have a problem with frequent Mitt Romney threads, frequent John McCain threads, or any others who were running. Just Ron Paul and accusations that "just the spamming" was being done by Ron Paul "followers."
Ridiculous.
But Palo may have a better memory about that, since she left because of Ron Paul being verboten.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 0:38:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#706. To: TooConservative (#701)
Until Ron Paul's Trotsky memo (preceded by his fairy tale support and inability to stand up for his votes), 4um was fully behind his campaign.
It's a FREEDOM 4um, not a De Constructionist forum. Not a National Globalist Bankster forum. Not a World Socialist Totalitarian Police State forum.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:38:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#707. To: nooz (#704)
hehehe

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:39:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#708. To: TooConservative (#701)
I was a big RP fan and I thought it was repetitious overkill.
No forum for free speech is obligated to let itself become a platform for one particular group or even a few very dedicated posters.
I agree. I was a RP supporter myself,and was happy to read about his thoughts on different subjects,but "RON PAUL EATS A CHEESE SANDWICH FOR LUNCH!" isn't exactly breaking news or something I'm interested in reading about.
I did notice that after RP articles were largely banned, for some reason you had a steady daily stream of Paul-hater threads posted. Those somehow never seemed to get pulled. This went on long after Ron Paul's campaign ended and were obvious hit pieces.
I noticed that too,and never could figure out why it was happening,other than the RINO Party Animals needed somebody to blame for John McLunatic losing the election,and they weren't about to blame McLunatic.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:40:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#709. To: litus (#705)
But Palo may have a better memory about that, since she left because of Ron Paul being verboten.

Didn't she run off a bunch of posters when she mentioned something about Ron Paul's assasination ?
What a bitch.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:40:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#710. To: Rotara (#709)
I have a vague memory about that. But that sounds familiar. I remember the night Palo left and that a great many were pretty fuming that night and the next day or two.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 0:42:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#711. To: litus, Palo Verde (#705)
IIRC, that was a bald face lie. She didn't have a problem with frequent Mitt Romney threads, frequent John McCain threads, or any others who were running.
I don't remember seeing frequent pro-Romney or McLunatic threads over there. Not on the order of the RP threads,anyhow.
Just Ron Paul and accusations that "just the spamming" was being done by Ron Paul "followers."
That's the way it seemed to me,too.
Ask Palo. I think she was involved in this at some level because she was a pretty dedicated RP follower.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:44:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#712. To: litus (#710)
Maybe her Israeli-MIC-DHS handlers pulled the money plug on her - took away the yob (job in english) and funding for the Israel first site. Sounds good anyway. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:45:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#713. To: Rotara, Palo Verde (#709)
Didn't she run off a bunch of posters when she mentioned something about Ron Paul's assasination ?

Huh? Who are you talking about,Palo or Goldi? I don't remember seeing any RP assassination threads.
Not saying there weren't any because so many "RP picks his nose and has a award-winning booger!" breaking news threads that I just quit reading all of them.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 0:47:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#714. To: Rotara (#703)
They were made for each other. Those idiots (you'd have to be one to stay - continue on there) represent National Globalist "R" trash.
Other lunatics were made for DU or some people's place dump or the other Israel first site that is stuck in the mud now.
The craziest foxes hang in da 4um. ;-)

It's kind of amusing how it calls itself "Free" Republic when it is anything but free. I mean, how can any site pimp freedom and liberty when it openly practices censorship?
The craziest foxes hang in da 4um. ;-)
Then I belong here. :-)

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:48:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#715. To: sneakypete (#713) (Edited)
Goldi-bitch said something like "no more Ron Paul threads unless he's assasinated".
I hope her heart exploded over the weekend and the last face she saw on Faux News - the last voice she heard, as she faded out - was Ron Paul's.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:50:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#716. To: nooz (#702)
I follow your point, but is that what you really meant?

No, of course not. I was joking. But there are common posters on both sites. Is that just because of the connection with Neil?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:51:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#717. To: sneakypete, TooConservative (#701)
(sneakypete) My vague recollection is one or two RP supporters were banned for continually filling up the breaking news box with RP campaign press releases,and not stopping when asked.
(TooConservative) I was a big RP fan and I thought it was repetitious overkill.
No forum for free speech is obligated to let itself become a platform for one particular group or even a few very dedicated posters.
I did notice that after RP articles were largely banned, for some reason you had a steady daily stream of Paul-hater threads posted. Those somehow never seemed to get pulled. This went on long after Ron Paul's campaign ended and were obvious hit pieces.
More recently, you could see a very large number of Birther threads. OTOH, those seemed to displace the huge numbers of the "GUESS WHO" threads about illegals and crimes they committed.

There weren't any articles about Ron Paul in the mainstream press
the only articles which could be posted about him were those press releases
I don't think we went overboard for Ron Paul
the candidate with the most energy behind him wins
we did the right thing to pour all our energy into Ron Paul when he was a viable candidate
JMHO of course
and it is water under the bridge
Love, Palo
for the record I think both of you are stellar posters
who brought so much to LP

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 0:51:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#718. To: meguro (#714) (Edited)
Freak Repugnant is 100% committed to the North ameriKan Soviet Union - New World Socialist Order.
Nothing free nor American about that.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:51:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#719. To: sneakypete, Palo Verde (#711)
IIRC, Palo took issue with Ron Paul followers being the spammers.
As far as the posting of threads, the threads posted about Ron Paul were articles being written in major news outlets about a candidate for the office of President.
It was ridiculous to state such articles can't be posted.
I do recall some thread or post about a RP assassination, or comments about such a thing, vaguely. It's been too long ago for me to remember with specificity; Palo may have already left by then, in any event.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 0:52:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#720. To: meguro (#714)
The craziest foxes hang in da 4um. ;-)
Then I belong here. :-)

Obots don't have a pleasant posting experience here. Are you an Obot ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:52:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#721. To: nooz (#716)
I follow your point, but is that what you really meant?

Actually, what is it that you think I actually meant?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:53:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#722. To: sneakypete (#693)
Really? Who have I ever had banned?

Pete, play dumb if you like. It's doubtful you are fooling anyone that posted at LP before. Have a fit if you like, just put a pencil between your teeth so you don't choke.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 0:53:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#723. To: Rotara (#720)
Obots don't have a pleasant posting experience here. Are you an Obot ?

Depends what you mean by Obot. If I voted for the guy, does that make me an Obot by definition? If I support some of his policies, am I an Obot?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:54:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#724. To: Rotara (#712)
Maybe her Israeli-MIC-DHS handlers pulled the money plug on her - took away the yob (job in english) and funding for the Israel first site. Sounds good anyway. ;-)

Maybe she just got tired of packrat reposting glc's advertising, lol!

litus posted on 2009-03-23 0:54:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#725. To: Rotara (#718)
Freak Repugnant is 100% committed to the North ameriKan Soviet Union - New World Socialist Order.

You got that right.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 0:55:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#726. To: litus, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve (#719)
I do recall some thread or post about a RP assassination, or comments about such a thing, vaguely.

Recollection PING

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:56:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#727. To: meguro (#723)
Obots don't have a pleasant posting experience here. Are you an Obot ? Depends what you mean by Obot. If I voted for the guy, does that make me an Obot by definition? If I support some of his policies, am I an Obot?

You're more than likely an Obot.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:56:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#728. To: Rotara (#727)
You're more than likely an Obot.

OK, whatever.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 0:57:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#729. To: litus (#724)
Maybe she just got tired of packrat reposting glc's advertising, lol!

LOL

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 0:59:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#730. To: meguro (#721)
Actually, what is it that you think I actually meant?

You really think saying 4um is the alter-ego of LP implied software?
If that's really it, then say so.
Yes or No is fine.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 0:59:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#731. To: nooz (#670)
If you doubt 4um is quite so free, you must have a basis for that. What is it?

The statement by christine on the site's home page that anyone can be banned for arbitrary reasons? I don't object to that; I just don't believe in pretending that those words have no meaning.

Too Jewy, Too Truthy, Too Birther. Pretty much your words.

Well, I think my words were "Birthier, Truthier, and Jewier". Excuse my fondness for the rhythm of the words. You could almost make an advertising jingle for candy bars with it...
And here I thought you were telling me how freely everyone could express themselves here on any topic. Am I somehow oppressing you with only three teeny-weeny words?

And, the best part, if you ignore someone for being an a-hole, bet on you being on someones list too.

I tend to only bozo those with huge colored font sigs or endless graphics. Of course, LP didn't have a sig line feature (that I noticed) so 4um is better that way; I noticed 4um's no-taglines feature just after I started using browser filters to kill them all off manually in Firefox. Obviously, Neil Ivers produced a more complete forum software for 4um; LP has an older version. I got the impression that Neil parted ways with Goldi over how the forum was run though he was too classy to start a food fight with her over it.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 0:59:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#732. To: meguro (#716)
No, of course not. I was joking. But there are common posters on both sites. Is that just because of the connection with Neil?

Well okay. Neil who ;)

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:00:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#733. To: nooz (#730)
You really think saying 4um is the alter-ego of LP implied software?

First please tell me what you mean by "LP implied software" so that I can accurately answer your question.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:01:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#734. To: TooConservative, war, sneakypete, meguro (#701)
Since some of the discussion has been the comparison between LP's and 4um's policies and rules, I'd like to invite you to read our Home Page mission statement and our Free Speech policy. Just so you know. ;)

christine posted on 2009-03-23 1:01:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#735. To: Rotara (#729)
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:02:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#736. To: meguro (#728)
You're more than likely an Obot.
OK, whatever.

Intellectual honesty will only highlight the deep voids you possess in character and America first patriotism based on Constitutional boundaries - in the spirit of the Founders. There's no fine line; it's black and white.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:02:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#737. To: nooz (#732)
Well okay. Neil who ;)

The guy Neil who developed the software for LP which seems to be the same software that runs this site. I have no idea what his full name is.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:02:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#738. To: Rotara (#736)
Intellectual honesty will only highlight the deep voids you possess in character and America first patriotism based on Constitutional boundaries - in the spirit of the Founders. There's no fine line; it's black and white.

Well, that's sure of mouthful of rhetoric. :-)

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:03:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#739. To: TooConservative (#731) (Edited)
And here I thought you were telling me how freely everyone could express themselves here on any topic.

Of course - just don't act all surprised when you get smacked upside the nog for being patently WRONG and / or IGNORANT. ~8^)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:04:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#740. To: meguro (#738)
Well, that's sure of mouthful of rhetoric. :-)

I'll never sell you short.
Unless I feel like it. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:06:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#741. To: litus, sneakypete, TooConservative (#705)
(litus) My recollection is that beyond Goldi's claim that "every other thread" being posted was about Ron Paul, there was lots of "spamming" type of threads, which Goldi decided to blame on "Ron Paul posters."
IIRC, that was a bald face lie. She didn't have a problem with frequent Mitt Romney threads, frequent John McCain threads, or any others who were running. Just Ron Paul and accusations that "just the spamming" was being done by Ron Paul "followers."
Ridiculous.
But Palo may have a better memory about that, since she left because of Ron Paul being verboten.
(sneakypete) I don't remember seeing frequent pro-Romney or McLunatic threads over there. Not on the order of the RP threads,anyhow.
(litus) Just Ron Paul and accusations that "just the spamming" was being done by Ron Paul "followers."
(Pete) That's the way it seemed to me,too.
Ask Palo. I think she was involved in this at some level because she was a pretty dedicated RP follower.

I think Goldi disgraced herself over Ron Paul
but Too Conservative said we (the Ron Paul followers) overdid it
that we turned whole forum into Ron Paul campaign HQ
and for posters who were not into that
we ruined the balance on the forum
TC may have a point, and perhaps Goldi was responding to that
but I don't think so
Goldi's candidate was Tancredo, she would have accepted LP becoming Tancredo all the time
if he had not dropped out
she simply didn't go for Ron Paul I have decided to overlook it that that happened, others may hold it agaist her
Love, Palo
I eventually returned to LP despite the banning of Ron Paul articles, I like the forum
and posters disobeyed the banning anyway, we always had Ron Paul threads going on

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:07:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#742. To: sneakypete (#708)
I agree. I was a RP supporter myself,and was happy to read about his thoughts on different subjects,but "RON PAUL EATS A CHEESE SANDWICH FOR LUNCH!" isn't exactly breaking news or something I'm interested in reading about.

Precisely.
These forums only have a certain amount of sidebar space. I recall seeing a half-dozen or more spammy Ron Paul threads in a row. That happened a number of times. Posting like that is just an attempt to use someone's forum as your own press release site. Sometimes really good articles just disappeared and were never seen by most posters because they just got bumped off the bottom of the sidebar list.
Of course, I didn't fail to notice how all the Ron Paul threads were supposedly banned. Well, except for a constant string of Paul-hater threads and I think a couple of well-known posters at LP had a second ID to post them under so they could then leap in under their real names. It's not like it's that hard to tunnel to a remote machine or use Tor. The Paul-hater threads characteristically were a single post from some Paul-hater blog no one had ever heard of and the poster of the thread left virtually no comments of their own. One assumes this is because they were aware that we all have habitual speech patterns and that their duplicity would be readily discovered if they posted anything under their fake ID.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:10:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#743. To: palo verde, sneakypete, TooConservative (#741)
Goldi's candidate was Tancredo, she would have accepted LP becoming Tancredo all the time if he had not dropped out

Very true; I forgot about that. She was all gungho behind Tancredo and, at the time, he wasn't doing well (was this shortly before he handed the reigns over to an open border faux conservative...shocking most Tancredo followers). RP was a genuine threat to Tancredo at the time.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:11:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#744. To: TooConservative (#731)
And here I thought you were telling me how freely everyone could express themselves here on any topic. Am I somehow oppressing you with only three teeny-weeny words?

Nice diversion tactic. No, I never said it, you did. This place was too "Birthier, Truthier, and Jewier". Still asking the same question. What's the problem.
Oppressed? Where did you get that idea?
I'm asking for an answer as to how you determined the above. What topics are off-limits therefore providing you a more pleasant posting experience?

I tend to only bozo those with huge colored font sigs or endless graphics. Of course, LP didn't have a sig line feature (that I noticed) so 4um is better that way; I noticed 4um's no-taglines feature just after I started using browser filters to kill them all off manually in Firefox. Obviously, Neil Ivers produced a more complete forum software for 4um; LP has an older version. I got the impression that Neil parted ways with Goldi over how the forum was run though he was too classy to start a food fight with her over it.
I really don't care.
No one asks me if I like their tagline either. I guess its just a free expression blasting itself all over the place. No neat little orderlines. Oh the humanity! LOL ;)

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:11:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#745. To: christine (#734)
My free speech means that I have 100% control over what I say and everyone else has 0% control over what I say. Now, I understand that there are consequences to exercising my right to free speech, but I still retain 100% control.

Does this just apply to you or to everyone? :-)
So what do you see as the differences between LP and here?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:11:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#746. To: meguro, nooz (#737)
(meguro) The guy Neil who developed the software for LP which seems to be the same software that runs this site. I have no idea what his full name is.

yes it is the same software
and it is great
was his last name McIver, Neil McIver
I don't remember now
when LP started the forum owners were Neil and Goldi together
but then Neil dropped out
he was libertarian 100 per cent
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:12:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#747. To: palo verde (#741)
She started off wanting to start another party.
Then she took a shine to that fake patriot tancredo.
She then said some nice things about Baldwin before shilling ultimately for mcKein.
She's a goof ball, israel-first, Ron Paul hater.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:12:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#748. To: litus (#743)
RP was a genuine threat to Tancredo at the time.

tancredo supported the Traitorous MCA & NDAA legislation.
Among other travesties. The NAU-Illegal Alien Invasion was a spring board for a nobody neocon but the real tancredo couldn't hide.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:15:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#749. To: meguro (#733)
First please tell me what you mean by "LP implied software" so that I can accurately answer your question.

This is getting a bit stupid.
But, why don't you think on it a while and see if you can find where the missing comma would fit.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:15:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#750. To: palo verde, nooz (#746)
yes it is the same software and it is great was his last name McIver, Neil McIver I don't remember now when LP started the forum owners were Neil and Goldi together but then Neil dropped out he was libertarian 100 per cent Love, Palo

Well, maybe when it was first developed it was. Now, it's a bit outdated. :-)
But it works fine, so I'm not complaining.
So Neil started this forum after leaving LP? Excuse my ignorance, as I am not familiar with the history.
Love,
Meguro

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:16:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#751. To: meguro (#737)
The guy Neil who developed the software for LP which seems to be the same software that runs this site. I have no idea what his full name is.

ROFL. This is so funny.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:16:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#752. To: nooz (#749)
But, why don't you think on it a while and see if you can find where the missing comma would fit.

I'm genuinely stumped. I have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:17:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#753. To: meguro (#750)
Good Lord.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:18:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#754. To: nooz (#751)
ROFL. This is so funny.

Not sure what's so funny about it, but I'm already getting the impression that I don't understand much about your sense of humor.
Oh well..

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:18:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#755. To: nooz (#753)
Good Lord.

Whatever.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:19:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#756. To: palo verde (#741)
I think Goldi disgraced herself over Ron Paul but Too Conservative said we (the Ron Paul followers) overdid it that we turned whole forum into Ron Paul campaign HQ

No, palo. I'm not talking about the regular RP supporters, just a couple of seminar posters who went totally nuts.
I'm talking about only a few that I never saw or heard of on the real RP forums either like DailyPaul or RonPaulForums. You almost had to wonder if they were provocateurs. I'm pretty much always against disruptor types. And those RP forums monitored and analyzed every forum to judge which might be friendly or unfriendly to RP posters and RP threads. I can't recall opinion on 4um but LP didn't fare too well. FR was watched very closely by RPF folk and drove them all completely nuts, especially when they saw us all getting banned, one by one because certain whiny Rudi Drag-Queen supporters or certain circumcised persons or jihadist militarists complained about our posts against warmongering liberal New Yorkers in drag, foreign aid, the war in Iraq.
palo, your RP threads were terrific as were most of the RP threads.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:19:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#757. To: meguro (#752)
I'm genuinely stumped. I have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry.

Thats fine. So, alter-ego means software in your world. I'll just wrap it up there.
If you have time, what does Birther, Truther and Jewy mean?

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:20:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#758. To: Rotara (#748)
the real tancredo couldn't hide.

It was unbelievable after he dropped out and supported Romney.
Unbelievable for those who thought he was sincere all those years prior to that occurring.
Yep...Tancredo outted himself the day he endorsed that fake.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:20:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#759. To: litus, sneakypete, TooConservative, meguro (#743)
(Palo) Goldi's candidate was Tancredo, she would have accepted LP becoming Tancredo all the time if he had not dropped out
(litus) Very true; I forgot about that. She was all gungho behind Tancredo

Yes after Tancredo dropped out
Goldi went for that other guy, Hunter
but then he dropped out, and she did not go for Ron Paul
she didn't go for anyone that I could see
our forum was very anti-McCain
but when Sarah Palin came along
some of us (I am not mentioning any names :)
went absolutely crazy for Sarah Palin
and Goldi allowed that since she liked Sarah too
(I was the one who went crazy for Sarah Palin
and some of my fellow Ron Paul supporters lost respect for me
on the other hand the posters who called me nitwit for liking Ron Paul
had new respect for me LOL LOL LOL
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:22:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#760. To: nooz (#744)
This place was too "Birthier, Truthier, and Jewier". Still asking the same question. What's the problem.

Given how many times you've brought it up now, it seems there isn't any problem. LOL.
Everything is obviously just fine.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:23:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#761. To: nooz (#757)
Thats fine. So, alter-ego means software in your world. I'll just wrap it up there.

Nope, never said that. Well I did, but it was a joke, son! Ha ha, ... and all that.
If you have time, what does Birther, Truther and Jewy mean?
Not that I use those terms myself, but I think they mean someone who believes Obama hasn't produced his birth certificate, someone who believes 9/11 was an inside job, and a Jew (although not so sure).

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:23:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#762. To: TooConservative (#756)
No, palo. I'm not talking about the regular RP supporters, just a couple of seminar posters who went totally nuts.
I'm talking about only a few that I never saw or heard of on the real RP forums either like DailyPaul or RonPaulForums. You almost had to wonder if they were provocateurs. I'm pretty much always against disruptor types. And those RP forums monitored and analyzed every forum to judge which might be friendly or unfriendly to RP posters and RP threads. I can't recall opinion on 4um but LP didn't fare too well. FR was watched very closely by RPF folk and drove them all completely nuts, especially when they saw us all getting banned, one by one because certain whiny Rudi Drag-Queen supporters or certain circumcised persons or jihadist militarists complained about our posts against warmongering liberal New Yorkers in drag, foreign aid, the war in Iraq.
palo, your RP threads were terrific as were most of the RP threads.

You are great TC
You were a brilliant and passionate supporter of Ron Paul on LP
you did everything perfectly and added so much
I am forever grateful to you
I love you
Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:25:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#763. To: palo verde (#759)
I liked Palin, but I hate McRino and would have never voted for him for anything or anybody in the world.
palo...you just got to do what your conscience tells you is best. You'll never be able to make everyone happy or everyone like you.
It's enough to have a few who just really appreciate you or truly love you. Forget the rest.
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:25:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#764. To: litus (#758)
Yep...Tancredo outted himself the day he endorsed that fake.

tancredo had zero chance once this got through to real Americans.
By the time he endorsed the massrino I don't personally know anyone that was surprised.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:26:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#765. To: meguro (#728)
You're more than likely an Obot.

You'll be lucky if that's the worst you get called here. ;)
Of course, you were fairly tough back at LP.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:26:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#766. To: palo verde (#759)
I was the one who went crazy for Sarah Palin and some of my fellow Ron Paul supporters lost respect for me

There is no other hand.
You whored yourself to the cabal.
Some went for the National Globalist Marxist, you went for the Socialist.
You all messed up big time.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:28:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#767. To: palo verde (#759)
on the other hand the posters who called me nitwit for liking Ron Paul had new respect for me LOL LOL LOL

Anything to be liked ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:28:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#768. To: palo verde (#759)
(I was the one who went crazy for Sarah Palin and some of my fellow Ron Paul supporters lost respect for me on the other hand the posters who called me nitwit for liking Ron Paul had new respect for me LOL LOL LOL Love, Palo

Well, palo, if I might offer an explanation.
Ron Paul and Sarah Palin are like night and day. It is a bit strange that you supported Sarah Palin after supporting Ron Paul. You claim to be a libertarian (is that right?), but Sarah Palin is far from libertarian.
It's just hard for some to understand, including myself.
Love,
Meguro

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:29:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#769. To: meguro, Fred Mertz, war (#762)
someone whose name I will not mention
called Sarah Palin a caribou barbie in every post
and posted pics to illustrate it
LOL you tortured me on my Sarah Palin threads, Meguro
but that is water under the bridge now too
(and some of the pics were cute!)
Love, Palo
you and Fred Mertz and War were the trio who worked against Sarah Palin as hard as I worked for her :)

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:29:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#770. To: meguro (#761)
Well I did, but it was a joke, son! Ha ha, ... and all that.

And I knew that but still you just couldn't quite bring youreself to answer up. Whatever.
If you have time, what does Birther, Truther and Jewy mean?
Not that I use those terms myself, but I think they mean someone who believes Obama hasn't produced his birth certificate, someone who believes 9/11 was an inside job, and a Jew (although not so sure).
Well, maybe you can get TooConservative to define Jewy. I don't know what he/she/it means either.
As for the first two, what's the problem? Why are those two things so horribly uncomfortable, but somehow torture, genocide, spying of little interest to LP'rs?
Too Jewy?

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:29:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#771. To: Rotara (#764)
By the time he endorsed the massrino I don't personally know anyone that was surprised.

Thanks for the link; I've bookmarked it to read later (hopefully tomorrow, when my brain isn't as dead).
By the time he endorsed him, maybe not....but you must admit there was lots of anger or outrage over that...why? Because...it was "unbelievable" IF he was being true to how he had presented himself for years before; he betrayed others' belief and trust in him. That's why.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:30:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#772. To: palo verde (#769)
you and Fred Mertz and War were the trio who worked against Sarah Palin as hard as I worked for her :)

This didn't take long.
oy vey

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:31:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#773. To: litus (#763)
I liked Palin, but I hate McRino and would have never voted for him for anything or anybody in the world.
palo...you just got to do what your conscience tells you is best. You'll never be able to make everyone happy or everyone like you.
It's enough to have a few who just really appreciate you or truly love you. Forget the rest.
: )

you are kind Litus to write me such a lovely and understanding post
i appreciate it
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:31:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#774. To: palo verde (#773)
yw Palo.
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:32:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#775. To: TooConservative (#760)
Given how many times you've brought it up now, it seems there isn't any problem. LOL.
Everything is obviously just fine.

I was just asking to understand you. It seemed to bother you enough to note them. I still haven't seen what brought you to those conclusions after a day or so of posting. Seems hardly enough time to evaluate the forum or it's posters.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:33:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#776. To: litus (#771)
You had to be drinking some series tancredo kool aid to miss his anti-American votes for MCA and NDAA.
That was an exceedingly strong set of clues, over and above the war mongering official fairy tale crap.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:33:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#777. To: nooz (#770)
And I knew that but still you just couldn't quite bring youreself to answer up. Whatever.

Took till your last post for me to even know what you were asking, dude. Commas are indeed important, aren't they?
Not that I use those terms myself, but I think they mean someone who believes Obama hasn't produced his birth certificate, someone who believes 9/11 was an inside job, and a Jew (although not so sure).
Well, maybe you can get TooConservative to define Jewy. I don't know what he/she/it means either.
As for the first two, what's the problem? Why are those two things so horribly uncomfortable, but somehow torture, genocide, spying of little interest to LP'rs?
Too Jewy?
Why are you asking me? I think those things are horrible. I don't share the opinions of many on LP.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:33:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#778. To: palo verde (#769)
You worked for Sara Palin?
That's great! Are you going to the meet up groups to draft her as a candidate in 2012?
I think I might. It could be a lot of fun.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-23 1:35:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#779. To: RickyJ (#778)
When you get a chance, ask the saracuda about Article 4, Section 4 if you would.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:36:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#780. To: Rotara (#766)
(Palo) I was the one who went crazy for Sarah Palin and some of my fellow Ron Paul supporters lost respect for me

(Rotara) You whored yourself to the cabal.

lol Rotara some of my fellow Ron Paul supporters were really disgusted with me
they didn't conclude I was a whore
they concluded I was an idiot :)
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:36:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#781. To: nooz (#770)
If you have time, what does Birther, Truther and Jewy mean?

That's Birthier, Truthier and Jewier.
Their meaning should be quite obvious. Read this thread again except for the on-topic posts about how the S.S. LibertyPost sunk after hitting that nasty iceberg.
I should apply for a copyright to the phrase "Birthier, Truthier and Jewier." Obviously, you find it so memorable, you're even pestering meguro about it.
You may not have noticed but meguro didn't exactly greet me with joy. He and I aren't bosom buddies.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:38:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#782. To: meguro (#777)
Why are you asking me? I think those things are horrible. I don't share the opinions of many on LP.

I asked because you are both from LP, and well might be alter-ego's and can mind-meld and so forth. There is a strict policy of one-mindedness apparently. I figured you'd know, and TC wasn't answering, so on a whim, I asked.
::I am just kidding::
Anyway, TC just answered with a non-answer.
Lucky us.
I am quite curious about the Jewy part though. That seems to be a big damn deal and I need a certified Jewy Jewster to call the plays.
Seems TooConservative has the answers.
Let's get them!

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:38:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#783. To: palo verde, tommythemadartist (#780)
lol Rotara some of my fellow Ron Paul supporters were really disgusted with me
they didn't conclude I was a whore
they concluded I was an idiot :)
Love, Palo

Yeah, well..anyone that left Paul and went to Zbig-Kissingoy puppets obamalamadingdong / mcKein has, at the very least, significant c.d. You will never escape the matrix I'm sorry to say.
***
Tommy, I know you're lurking. Come out of the shadows !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:39:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#784. To: palo verde (#780)
they didn't conclude I was a whore they concluded I was an idiot :)

Not me. Plenty of others respected your choice too.
You just like whoever you want to.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:40:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#785. To: TooConservative (#781)
He and I aren't bosom buddies.

oh boy........very punny

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:41:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#786. To: Rotara (#779)
When you get a chance, ask the saracuda about Article 4, Section 4 if you would.

If I meet her I might do that. I just think it might be fun to meet people that like her. She was without a doubt the best candidate on either major party ticket last year. The media hates her so she can't be that bad.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-23 1:41:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#787. To: Rotara (#776)
anti-American votes for MCA and NDAA.

That covers the time period of between 2006 - 2008?
As I was practically living in a cave at the time, it shouldn't be surprising that I was unable to be kept abreast of things politic or Tancredo.
Did any politicians vote the right way concerning either of those acts?

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:42:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#788. To: RickyJ (#786)
uh oh

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:42:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#789. To: litus (#787)
Did any politicians vote the right way concerning either of those acts?

IIRC the number of critters that didn't go with the program could be added up on one hand and quite comfortably.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:44:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#790. To: TooConservative (#781)
That's Birthier, Truthier and Jewier.
Their meaning should be quite obvious. Read this thread again except for the on-topic posts about how the S.S. LibertyPost sunk after hitting that nasty iceberg.
I should apply for a copyright to the phrase "Birthier, Truthier and Jewier." Obviously, you find it so memorable, you're even pestering meguro about it.
You may not have noticed but meguro didn't exactly greet me with joy. He and I aren't bosom buddies.

It's not that catchy in the actual real world I guess. I'll try harder to meet you in yours.
You may not have noticed but meguro didn't exactly greet me with joy. He and I aren't bosom buddies.
Why would I care? You keep thinking I care about fluff. Stop that. I ask a simple question and get reams of crap I don't need to know.
LOL.
Fine. What is your favorite color?
Happy now? Now, what is too Jewy? And for Gods sake don't tell me about fonts and crap.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:44:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#791. To: litus (#787)
That link will be instructive for you.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:44:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#792. To: Rotara (#789)
the number of critters that didn't go with the program could be added up on one hand and quite comfortably.

figures

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:44:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#793. To: Rotara (#791)
ty; I'll post my thoughts concerning it after I've read it.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:46:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#794. To: palo verde, meguro (#769)
called Sarah Palin a caribou barbie in every post

You have to admit it was clever. I admired the phrase-coining. Memorable, short, chock full of quirky mouthy Americana.
All I could come up with was Yomama, Dark Messiah, First Negro, etc.
Of course, they were just recombining the words and phrases of pro comedy writers, all liberal Hollyweirdos so they don't get any points for being original. And I don't think their bitterness swayed anyone anyway.
Don't think they were more effective than you were, palo. Cynics spewing sarcasm may amuse but they don't convince.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:47:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#795. To: litus (#793)
LibertyForum went 'down' last year and now LibertyPost is down. How much time do we have left?

All but ONE post in forum is on this thread right now. LOL
Night and be well

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 1:48:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#796. To: TooConservative (#784)
Thank you very much for this post TC
I know Sarah Palin wasn't your cup of tea
I may be wrong because it was right before the election
and I was absolutely determined to keep Obama out
and the way to do that was to get Sarah Palin in
plus I adored her
so I am very fuzzy about your posts then, just that you did not join the Sarah Palin bandwagon as I did ?
but I absolutely appreciate the forbearance you showed,
and your absolute liberty you gave everyone to like who they did like
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:49:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#797. To: Rotara (#795)
All but ONE post in forum is on this thread right now. LOL

hehehe
Night.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 1:50:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#798. To: nooz, meguro (#790)
Why would I care? You keep thinking I care about fluff. Stop that.

Oh? I don't think I was the one quizzing someone else about a third person's earlier remarks, demanding explanations from them for someone else's comments.

Happy now? Now, what is too Jewy?

And in which post did I say "too Jewy"? I certainly don't recall that. Please point me toward any such post by me on this thread or any other here at 4um.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:51:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#799. To: TooConservative, meguro (#794)
(Palo) Meguro called Sarah Palin a caribou barbie in every post
(TC) You have to admit it was clever. I admired the phrase-coining.
Memorable, short, chock full of quirky mouthy Americana.

lol you are right, TC
now that I have back my sense of humor and balance
I give Meguro credit for creativity
Caribou Barbie is imaginative and colorful
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:54:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#800. To: All (#799)
Sweet dreams all
Thank you for making this thread so enjoyable and interesting to be on
Thank you again Christine for your hospitality to us
and thank you all 4um-ers for your gracious welcome
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 1:57:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#801. To: palo verde (#796)
I know Sarah Palin wasn't your cup of tea

Nah, I liked Sarah. I liked her grit, her ability to really take and come back with some good hits of her own, the fact she believed in some things strongly (I wasn't too fond of the pro-Iraq-war part). I wasn't so fond of McStain's handlers stabbing her in the back every five minutes.
She wasn't ready for 2008. We'll see if she's up for it in 2012. And I do recall that she gave Ron Paul a very very warm welcome in Alaska that time. She's also not CFR, not part of some creepy batch of trust fund babies in the Senate, not some mangled war hero brandishing his medals in our faces, not some two-bit mediocre Harvard race-hustler...ahem...well, I guess I find more merit in the things Sarah Palin is not than in the things I know she is. And she did far better on short notice than McStain had any right to expect. She outperformed expectations considerably. The truth is, Sarah Palin was never free to be her own candidate. We still don't really know her.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:57:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#802. To: nooz (#782)
Seems TooConservative has the answers.
Let's get them!

Good luck.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 1:58:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#803. To: TooConservative (#798)
Oh? I don't think I was the one quizzing someone else about a third person's earlier remarks, demanding explanations from them for someone else's comments.

I explained that before, or don't you remember? I didn't demand, I asked if they might know what you meant. F o l l o w T h e D o t s.
And in which post did I say "too Jewy"? I certainly don't recall that. Please point me toward any such post by me on this thread or any other here at 4um.

It was the third thing mentioned in the snappy phrase you wanted to patent or something.
You are having an awful time at answering a simple question.
Would you like to forget it and let it be for now? Because I guarantee that I will continue to ask people from LP what TOO JEWY means over there. It upset you, and I need to understand why.
Its not that I'm being generous and actually care who this offends, it's that I am curious where such statements find their roots.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 1:58:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#804. To: Rotara (#785)
oh boy........very punny

You have no idea. ;)

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 1:59:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#805. To: meguro (#802)
Good luck.

Well thanks.
Sorry to have bothered you over that one.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 2:00:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#806. To: palo verde (#800)
sweet dreams, palo

litus posted on 2009-03-23 2:04:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#807. To: nooz (#805)
Well thanks.
Sorry to have bothered you over that one.

No problem. Just bear in mind I'm in the minority on LP! :-)

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 2:33:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#808. To: palo verde (#769)
LOL you tortured me on my Sarah Palin threads, Meguro but that is water under the bridge now too (and some of the pics were cute!)

I'm so sorry, Palo. I didn't mean to hurt you... honest.
you and Fred Mertz and War were the trio who worked against Sarah Palin as hard as I worked for her :)
Sorry again to have to say it, but I'm glad we succeeded. I never questioned your support of Ron Paul, who I acknowledge raised some very valid points about our foreign policy, but Sarah Palin, forget it. :-)
I still love you dearly, despite our differences.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 2:38:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#809. To: nooz, meguro (#803)
It was the third thing mentioned in the snappy phrase you wanted to patent or something.
You are having an awful time at answering a simple question.

Actually, I loaded the full text of this thread to clarify this matter.
I originally posted:
I've only been here today but so far it seems Birthier, Truthier, and Jewier than LP was. And all of that just on a thread about LP being offline. ;)

The first mention of "Jewy" was your own post:
"You think there should be a birther, Truther, Jewy test?"

The first mention of "Too Jewy" was your own post:
"Too Jewy, Too Truthy, Too Birther. Pretty much your words."

Note again, I used these terms in comparison of LP to 4um. I never once said "too Jewy" (since I would not use such an inartful phrase). You are the one who said "Jewy" and "too Jewy" throughout this thread, pretending it was me who said it. You also falsely attributed "Too Truthy" and "Too Birther" as phrases I wrote when you are, in fact, the only one who wrote them. So "Jewy" and "Too Jewy" were not, in fact, my words. They are your words which you wish for some reason to pretend were my words. Then you want to conduct some pointless little witch hunt over why I said those words (which were actually your words) to begin with. Go back and check my posts. You'll find I didn't edit them ex post facto.
Senile? Drunk? Confused with your own bullcrap? What, like I should care so much to even want to find out?
If you want to ask me what I mean, you'll have to actually read what I wrote and then stop interrogating yourself.
And you should stop pestering meguro, not that I'm his White Knight or anything. He had nothing to do with your blatant attempt to put your words in my mouth.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 2:41:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#810. To: meguro (#807)
No problem. Just bear in mind I'm in the minority on LP! :-)

I always thought you were in the majority.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 2:42:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#811. To: palo verde, Fred Mertz, war (#769)
someone whose name I will not mention called Sarah Palin a caribou barbie in every post and posted pics to illustrate it LOL you tortured me on my Sarah Palin threads, Meguro but that is water under the bridge now too (and some of the pics were cute!) Love, Palo
you and Fred Mertz and War were the trio who worked against Sarah Palin as hard as I worked for her :)

Moi? LOL! Not quite every thread... only 90% or so of them. :-)

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 2:42:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#812. To: TooConservative (#810)
I always thought you were in the majority.

How do you figure?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 2:43:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#813. To: TooConservative (#809)
And you should stop pestering meguro, not that I'm his White Knight or anything. He had nothing to do with your blatant attempt to put your words in my mouth.

You should also stop pestering me. :-)

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 2:44:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#814. To: TooConservative (#809)
Okay, SEEMS jewier. Not a big difference. But I really like the graphics and boxes and stuff.
So, what did you mean by SEEMS JEWIER.
It's not a hard question.
And for the record, I did apologize to merguro, if you followed the thread and so forth.

Again with the dramatics. Blatent attempt to put words in your mouth? I asked a simple question that you just won't answer and still won't.
Why?
What seems JEWIER??

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 2:48:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#815. To: meguro (#813)
You should also stop pestering me. :-)

You're not allowed to speak to the White Knight that way.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 2:54:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#816. To: nooz (#814)
And for the record, I did apologize to merguro, if you followed the thread and so forth

Name's meguro, dude. :-)
It's the neighborhood of Tokyo in which I live. Literally means, "black eye."

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 3:07:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#817. To: nooz (#814)
Okay, SEEMS jewier. Not a big difference. But I really like the graphics and boxes and stuff.

Macro insertions. I just type '>>lptable' and it instantly creates a formatted bordered HTML table for me and places my cursor at the correct insertion point. I have a couple blockquote styles too. Just something to create a little visual interest beyond bolding/italics. Since Neil wrote both forums' software, the same stuff works both places.

What seems JEWIER??

4um seems Jewier than LP. 4um also seems Birthier than LP. Not to mention Truthier than LP.
Is that really so difficult to understand? You're the only one who seems to have a problem grasping it. You do understand comparative sentences?
You do realize you missed the actual point of my original remark?

I've only been here today but so far it seems Birthier, Truthier, and Jewier than LP was. And all of that just on a thread about LP being offline. ;)

It was intended to point out how a thread about LP being down was full of Truther/Birther/Jew material which was completely off-topic. The little smiley was intended to convey light humor, well, obviously not too successfully, at least judging by your reaction.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 3:08:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#818. To: sneakypete (#708)
My vague recollection is one or two RP supporters were banned for continually filling up the breaking news box with RP campaign press releases,and not stopping when asked.

Well your recollection is faulty. 99.9% of the Ron Paul related posts were made by ANTI Ron Paul posters, whose posts WERE allowed to stand while the few PRO Ron Paul threads were quickly deleted by Goldi.
Goldi would use the ANTI Ron Paul posts as an example of "spam" yet allow those obvious spam posts to stand, right up till the electon.
If it came from a blog and was nothing but pure bullshit, it stayed on LP. If it was a legitimate news article about Ron Paul, it was deleted and the poster would be banned and/or chastised.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 5:31:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#819. To: palo verde, TooConservative (#717)
There weren't any articles about Ron Paul in the mainstream press the only articles which could be posted about him were those press releases I don't think we went overboard for Ron Paul the candidate with the most energy behind him wins

Palo,it is true that the mainstream media treated him like he was a social disease,but the truth is he was never going to win to start with,and even if he had of won he would have gotten zero support from the professional pols in either branch of the ruling party. Helping him be successful would have ended their own political careers,and there is no way they would have done this.
Putting a 3rd Party candidate into the White House is a waste of time until there are enough members of congress from the same party as him to provide him with a little support.
I still voted for him,but he had about as much chance of winning the presidency as I did.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 7:29:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#820. To: nooz (#722)
Really? Who have I ever had banned?
Pete, play dumb if you like. It's doubtful you are fooling anyone that posted at LP before.

Then it should be easy for you to post a few screen names,right?
Put up or shut up.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 7:31:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#821. To: palo verde (#741)
I eventually returned to LP despite the banning of Ron Paul articles, I like the forum and posters disobeyed the banning anyway, we always had Ron Paul threads going on

I know. I even posted a couple myself.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 7:44:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#822. To: litus, palo verde, TooConservative (#743)
RP was a genuine threat to Tancredo at the time.

That's true,but it's laughable to call either one of them a serious threat to an annointed RINO like McLunatic. Romney had some solid RINO credentials AND presidential hair,so there was a chance he could have beaten McLunatic. The Huckster did a really good job of hiding his true politics by saying all the right things in speeches and interviews,but he never really had a chance with anybody other than those waiting for him to tell them to touch their teebee sets and be healed.
It was obvious early on that only a RINO would get any party support or serious treatment in the press.
It was a fixed game from the very start.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 7:50:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#823. To: palo verde (#759)
Yes after Tancredo dropped out Goldi went for that other guy, Hunter

And Hunter was a guy that made Tancredo seem sincere and the Kennedy family against nepotism by comparison.
I got flamed all over the place for outing Hunter as a liar and a poser on his military record. Even had people calling me a phony vet who knew nothing about the army.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 7:56:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#824. To: litus (#763)
I liked Palin, but I hate McRino and would have never voted for him for anything or anybody in the world.

We are in agreement on this one. I hate McLunatic so much I would have voted for Soetoro if it had looked like McLunatic was going to win.
BTW,I haven't seen anybody scare the RINO's and their twin brothers the Dims as much as Palin has scared them since Newt first became Speaker of the House. This was back before they got blackmail material on him. The Dims and RINO's get absolutely hysterical every time the name "Palin" is mentioned.
IMHO,she couldn't receive higher praise.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 8:00:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#825. To: litus (#771)
By the time he endorsed him, maybe not....but you must admit there was lots of anger or outrage over that...why? Because...it was "unbelievable" IF he was being true to how he had presented himself for years before; he betrayed others' belief and trust in him. That's why.

NEVER underestimate the power of the FBI and the IRS to dig up blackmail,and the US Justice Department to spin it into criminal charges. If not on the candidate directly,on a close family member. People will do a lot of things to keep themselves or a close relative away from bankruptcy AND criminal court. Even if they charges fail you lose because your reputation is destroyed and you are bankrupt by the time they get done with you.
Yeah,Tancredo switched overnight,and there has to be a reason for it. I have no insider information,I'm just saying blackmail and extortion were the most likely reasons.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 8:05:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#826. To: sneakypete (#825)
Yeah,Tancredo switched overnight,and there has to be a reason for it. I have no insider information,I'm just saying blackmail and extortion were the most likely reasons.

Caught in the men's room getting his noodle wet?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 8:12:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#827. To: TooConservative (#801)
, I guess I find more merit in the things Sarah Palin is not than in the things I know she is

Sometimes that's all you have.
And she did far better on short notice than McStain had any right to expect. She outperformed expectations considerably.
She became more popular with the public virtually overnight than McLunatic was,scaring the hell out of both the RINO's and their twin brothers the Dims.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 8:13:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#828. To: litus (#696)
I didn't say you have posted comments on it; but you haven't been the only poster posting statutes and laws concerning this subject.

Can you please link me to others who have posted statutes? Or at least give me the thread?

war posted on 2009-03-23 8:16:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#829. To: FormerLurker (#818)
Well your recollection is faulty. 99.9% of the Ron Paul related posts were made by ANTI Ron Paul posters, whose posts WERE allowed to stand while the few PRO Ron Paul threads were quickly deleted by Goldi.

I didn't post many,but the few pro-Ron Paul threads I posted were not deleted.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 8:17:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#830. To: christine, Goldi-Lox, Bill Mayer, trixie (#734)
Thanks...I had read the Home Page but not the other. I had looked for "rules" and just assumed there were few if any.

As I said, I have no issue with rules as long as they are enforced uniformly and not at the whim of the moderator. Lucy the Bat destroyed stolybreath.com and learned a quick lesson in libel back when she started her purges. Bill at Pipebomb destroyed his site - which was very free wheeling - when he decided to innoculate the forum with his political orthodoxy and then began to suffer the same fate as Lucy the Bat in selective enforcement and then totally killed his site when he banned us anti-Booosh's as agit-props. I had a great time there right up until the day I was banned.
LP was a good place until it got ignored which was increasing steadily over the last couple of years. Personally, I ***think*** Goldi had a lot of things happen personally over the last couple of years and that took a lot out of her. Frankly, I like her and I hope all turns out well for her.

war posted on 2009-03-23 8:26:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#831. To: meguro (#826)
Caught in the men's room getting his noodle wet?

Not likely. It could have been anything from getting a questionable zoning exemption to having a child arrested on drug charges.
I have no idea what it was,but look at what they did to Newt based SOLELY on what was supposed to have been nothing more than a minor tax mistake. Even you and I wouldn't have faced criminal charges for something like that,yet it resulted in Newt losing his Speaker position and even his congressional seat. Not only that,but for a couple of years nobody saw or heard from him on any of the tv political talk shows.
Now he is suddenly all over the airwaves again,which tells us that the people who worked so hard to silence him now need him for a PR front effort. Too many conservatives have left the RINO Party after two Boy Jorge terms and an attempted McLunatic term. They need Newt to speak in order to fool people into voting R once again.
IMHO,he has been reduced to nothing more than a puppet on a string.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 8:29:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#832. To: James Deffenbach (#595)
No, you stupid Obamabot, I didn't lie.

You can post all the links that you want to Douchenbag and you can bozo me to the 4th coming...HOSPITALS MAY NOT RELEASE VITAL RECORDS. PERIOD.

war posted on 2009-03-23 8:31:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#833. To: sneakypete (#831)
Now he is suddenly all over the airwaves again,which tells us that the people who worked so hard to silence him now need him for a PR front effort. Too many conservatives have left the RINO Party after two Boy Jorge terms and an attempted McLunatic term. They need Newt to speak in order to fool people into voting R once again.

You mean there aren't enough GOP-firsters like packbot, mudbot, boteye, beyond the sea, yukon. etc.?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 8:32:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#834. To: meguro (#826)
Caught in the men's room getting his noodle wet?

Or wetting someone else's noodle...both par for the GOP pol course...

war posted on 2009-03-23 8:32:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#835. To: FormerLurker (#591)
The idiotic report you linked gave a minimum collapse speed LESS than the time it would take for a free fall through air, and the chart simply reflected the actual times of the collapse vs an object dropping through thin air.

Wha...chuckle...huh? Go back and rrada it again moron...a point further OUT the the right on an X-axis is a GREATER number, doof.

war posted on 2009-03-23 8:34:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#836. To: FormerLurker (#591)
BTW. Have you ever REALLY looked at any of the collapse photos? It's obvious that MUCH of the top structure's mass disintegrated into dust and was blown out sideways. That being the case, how was there enough mass left over to cause the structure below to collapse?

You really are a tool...er fool...er what the hell...both...
The steel did NOT disintegrate dickweed...

war posted on 2009-03-23 8:38:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#837. To: war, sneakypete (#834)
Or wetting someone else's noodle...both par for the GOP pol course...

Yup, and then an hour later they're publicly demonizing gays.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 8:39:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#838. To: sneakypete (#827)
, I guess I find more merit in the things Sarah Palin is not than in the things I know she is
Sometimes that's all you have.

Well, at least she's not trolling men's rooms for sex. I'll give her that much. :-)

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 8:40:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#839. To: meguro (#838) (Edited)
Well, at least she's not trolling men's rooms for sex.

How do you know?
Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-23 8:44:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#840. To: Critter (#839)
How do you know?

Just a guess, but you're right, I can't be sure.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 8:45:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#841. To: sneakypete (#283) (Edited)
EDIT: I replied to the wrong poster.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 9:20:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#842. To: meguro (#811)
Calling her caribou barbie wasn't nice. Her real name is Bible Spice.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 9:22:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#843. To: sneakypete (#829)
I didn't post many,but the few pro-Ron Paul threads I posted were not deleted.

I posted quite a few, trying to keep it at no more than a few per day.
Mine didn't get pulled. Neither did palo's.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 9:43:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#844. To: meguro (#833)
You mean there aren't enough GOP-firsters like packbot, mudbot, boteye, beyond the sea, yukon. etc.?

I have never meant that. Like with the Dim-Firsters,there are too damn many of them.
What we need are more America-Firsters.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 9:45:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#845. To: nooz (#590)
You're just being fowl.

Ouch...

war posted on 2009-03-23 9:54:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#846. To: FormerLurker (#592)
What, are you cruising for a dinner companion?

Nope...and as it seems that you have the menu set...he's all your's...

war posted on 2009-03-23 9:55:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#847. To: meguro (#816)
Name's meguro, dude. :-)
It's the neighborhood of Tokyo in which I live. Literally means, "black eye."

Well that's interesting.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 9:56:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#848. To: TooConservative (#817)
4um seems Jewier than LP. 4um also seems Birthier than LP. Not to mention Truthier than LP.
Is that really so difficult to understand? You're the only one who seems to have a problem grasping it. You do understand comparative sentences?

Apparently, answering it is impossible for you to explain. It SEEMS JEWIER, and I would like to know how you come to draw that conclusion. Simple.
An example, if I say, it seems cloudier today, the common conclusion might be that I think there were less clouds yesterday. Not that there ARE more, but it SEEMS like more.
So, if it seems Jewier, what is your frame of reference?
Smiley or not, the humor is lost unless we can share the presumed joke.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 10:03:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#849. To: sneakypete (#820)
Then it should be easy for you to post a few screen names,right?
Put up or shut up.

Ah, there's a bit of the pete I know.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 10:04:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#850. To: nooz (#849)
Put up or shut up.
Ah, there's a bit of the pete I know.

Ok,in other words,you can't come up with any names.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 10:15:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#851. To: sneakypete, nooz (#850)
Ok,in other words,you can't come up with any names.

Sneak...you and I agree almost all the never...this is the one time I will agree with you...you never called for anyone to be banned...

war posted on 2009-03-23 10:28:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#852. To: meguro, palo verde, war, sneakypete, Rhino369 (#811)
you and Fred Mertz and War were the trio who worked against Sarah Palin as hard as I worked for her :)

Palin is the female version of Dan Quayle. For some strange reason petey likes her.
Hi guys!

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-03-23 10:39:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#853. To: war, sneakypete, nooz (#851)
Sneak...you and I agree almost all the never...this is the one time I will agree with you...you never called for anyone to be banned...

I never saw it either. Nooz, you'll have to come up with specific instances.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 10:39:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#854. To: Fred Mertz (#852)
Hey dude...Win Willy!!!!

war posted on 2009-03-23 10:41:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#855. To: Fred Mertz (#852)
Palin is the female version of Dan Quayle. For some strange reason petey likes her.
Hi guys!

Hi Fred!

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 10:41:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#856. To: nooz (#849)
Ah, there's a bit of the pete I know.

You can tell it's petey with his comma[no space] typing style.

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-03-23 10:41:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#857. To: nooz (#848)
Apparently, answering it is impossible for you to explain. It SEEMS JEWIER, and I would like to know how you come to draw that conclusion. Simple.

Reading this thread about LP, glancing through some articles on the sidebar. I never read this site before yesterday.
How do you perceive the word "Jewier"? I think you are overreading given how you keep trying to shove your own garbled quotes into my mouth but then, I can't spend that much time worrying about your reading comprehension problems.

Smiley or not, the humor is lost unless we can share the presumed joke.

Well, your sense of humor is pretty impaired. If you don't see the humor, I can't help you much.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 10:44:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#858. To: nooz, TooConservative (#848)
4um seems Jewier than LP.

My observation thus far has been not ven close...in fact, anti-Jewier would be a more apt description.

war posted on 2009-03-23 10:46:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#859. To: war, nooz, TooConservative (#858) (Edited)
My observation thus far has been not ven close...in fact, anti- Jewier would be a more apt description.

Regardless of what people on LP claim, not everyone on F4um sees a jew hiding under their bed or blames them for every single bad thing that happens in the world.
Having said that, even the ones who are not like the above are not blind to the duplicitous nature of Israel, the neocons, and/or Israeli-firsters. Evil is as evil does.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-23 10:52:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#860. To: TooConservative (#857)
Apparently, answering it is impossible for you to explain. It SEEMS JEWIER, and I would like to know how you come to draw that conclusion. Simple. Reading this thread about LP, glancing through some articles on the sidebar. I never read this site before yesterday.
How do you perceive the word "Jewier"? I think you are overreading given how you keep trying to shove your own garbled quotes into my mouth but then, I can't spend that much time worrying about your reading comprehension problems.

Smiley or not, the humor is lost unless we can share the presumed joke. Well, your sense of humor is pretty impaired. If you don't see the humor, I can't help you much.

Paraphrasing isn't quoting, as is obvious, so you don't need to get all touchy over it. Did you want an apology or something?
I asked a simple question about your observation. I still don't know what you mean, and why you can't seem to offer up one thing to clarify how 4um seems Jewier than LP.
How about we go about this the other way, what makes LP 'less Jewie'? (or Jewy, or can we not quibble about how it's spelled, so we can bypass the hot button of those who spell Jews, Jooz. I think you can grasp that basic point.)
What is the average acceptable level of Jewie things and how would I spot it to measure it by your standards?

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 11:07:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#861. To: sneakypete (#22)
BTW,I was called a anti-Semite there the day before the site went down,and it wasn't the first time.

I saw that Mossad Magician threw that cheap shot at you. And I defended you.

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-03-23 11:08:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#862. To: Hayek Fan (#859)
bump

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 11:09:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#863. To: war (#858)
My observation thus far has been not ven close...in fact, anti-Jewier would be a more apt description.

Feel free to help clarify things, but if I ask you, I'll be accused of pestering you.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 11:12:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#864. To: nooz (#863)
Feel free to help clarify things, but if I ask you, I'll be accused of pestering you.

I answer all pings...
There is a very vocal anti-Israel/Zionist faction here and their ptotests are well fonded and reasoned. They are not, or don't appear to be, anti-Semetic.

war posted on 2009-03-23 11:16:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#865. To: Hayek Fan (#859)
Regardless of what people on LP claim, not everyone on F4um sees a jew hiding under their bed or blames them for every single bad thing that happens in the world.
Having said that, even the ones who are not like the above are not blind to the duplicitous nature of Isreal, the neocons, and/or Israeli-firsters. Evil is as evil does.

I would say that's how I have seen things so far as well.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 11:16:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#866. To: christine, Cynicom (#734)
...members can exercise free speech as long as they (1) do not make a specific threat against an identifiable person or target, (2) earnestly debate or discuss the relevant issues that are part and parcel of this forum's reason-to-be.

Seems reasonable, very close to my own standard for free speech. I'd say that someone repeatedly promising to bring other posters "grief" might skirt the line but it's no big issue.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 11:16:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#867. To: war (#864)
I answer all pings...
There is a very vocal anti-Israel/Zionist faction here and their ptotests are well fonded and reasoned. They are not, or don't appear to be, anti-Semetic.

Perhaps the fact that such posts are allowed is at the core of this question about 4um being 'Jewier'?

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 11:19:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#868. To: Rhino369 (#842)
Calling her caribou barbie wasn't nice. Her real name is Bible Spice.

The original Spice Girl! :-)

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 11:22:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#869. To: sneakypete (#844)
What we need are more America-Firsters.

I'm an Earth-firster, personally.

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 11:24:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#870. To: palo verde, meguro, Fred Mertz, war, rhino (#769)
someone whose name I will not mention called Sarah Palin a caribou barbie in every post

Hi Palo...
Yes, but comically and ironically ALL the above pinged LPers - including Princess Meguro - were the ones who worshiped at the altar of the immaculately-conceived clueless Kenyan-Indonesian Black-Separatist homosexual Marxist Muslim who can't pee with his teleprompter.
<< "LOL you tortured me on my Sarah Palin threads, Meguro ...">>
LP's resident Fruitus Cakus and hypocrite HATED Sarah Palin solely because she was a Christian and opposed gay marriage. NOT because of any intellectual shortcomings.
Hey Meg - isn't it true that you hated the fact that you weren't as pretty as Palin? AND hated that you lacked that one extra orifice?

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 11:27:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#871. To: Fred Mertz (#861)
I saw that Mossad Magician threw that cheap shot at you. And I defended you.

Is he really a doctor? Does he see patients?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 11:27:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#872. To: war, Cynicom (#858)
My observation thus far has been not even close...in fact, anti-Jewier would be a more apt description.

Not anti-Jewier. Or pro-Jewier.
Just Jewier.
Generically more focused on Jews and Israel, whether for or against.
I wouldn't have bothered to explain but I've observed you are generally a good reader. I didn't bother before since Cynicom is an obvious quote mangler.
I would think it would be obvious since this is a thread about LP's outage and in about 900 posts, only 60-70 were actually about LP and the rest were Jewy/Birthy/Truthy. Although LP certainly had Jewy and Birthy and even some Truthy threads over time, it was not quite to the extext I observed here in a single day of reading articles. Of course, I haven't seen anything here like a Biker Bar so certain articles don't migrate to a back room as you often see in other forums. From a forum management perspective, this can be a plus or a minus in terms of segregation of topics, how casual posters or lurkers perceive the forum, whether you make some lib group's hate site list, or just in having a variety of topics that are representative of the forum's variety of opinion in a limited sidebar space.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 11:28:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#873. To: F16Fighter (#870)
morning Liberator !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 11:28:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#874. To: Rhino369 (#842)
Calling her caribou barbie wasn't nice. Her real name is Bible Spice.

Calling you "Piehole Spice" isn't nice either; I apologize, kid.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 11:28:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#875. To: F16Fighter (#870)
Hey Meg - isn't it true that you hated the fact that you weren't as pretty as Palin? AND hated that you lacked that one extra orifice?

Isn't it true that you were lobotomized years ago, and that would explain your current wackiness?

meguro posted on 2009-03-23 11:29:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#876. To: Rotara (#873)
Mo'-nin', Roto-kill!
(hope you like that nick ;-)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 11:29:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#877. To: meguro (#875)
Isn't it true that you were lobotomized years ago, and that would explain your current wackiness?

Yes.
I blame Free Republic and Jim Robinson :-)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 11:30:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#878. To: F16Fighter (#876)
Roto-kill

Coming from you I'll receive it as an honor. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 11:31:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#879. To: nooz (#860)
(or Jewy, or can we not quibble about how it's spelled, so we can bypass the hot button of those who spell Jews, Jooz. I think you can grasp that basic point.)

Or those who might be somewhat sensitive because their screen name is homonymic for 'news' but is similarly spelled 'nooz'?

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 11:32:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#880. To: nooz (#867)
Before we continue can I ask what "Jewier" means? I assumed it to mean "more Jews and pro-Israel". IS that a poor assumption?

war posted on 2009-03-23 11:33:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#881. To: Rotara (#878)
Then "Roto-kill" it is! (knuckle-tap)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 11:34:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#882. To: war (#880)
Before we continue can I ask what "Jewier" means? I assumed it to mean "more Jews and pro-Israel". IS that a poor assumption?

I don't know what it means. I've been asking TooConservative to clarify it since he/she brought it up.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 11:35:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#883. To: TooConservative (#879)
(or Jewy, or can we not quibble about how it's spelled, so we can bypass the hot button of those who spell Jews, Jooz. I think you can grasp that basic point.) Or those who might be somewhat sensitive because their screen name is homonymic for 'news' but is similarly spelled 'nooz'?

You're changing the subject again.
I'm not sensitive about the name at all.
What is your problem?

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 11:37:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#884. To: F16Fighter (#881)
tap

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 11:41:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#885. To: F16Fighter (#874)
Calling you "Piehole Spice" isn't nice either; I apologize, kid.

It also isn't funny. Try again please. You can do better Liberator.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 11:41:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#886. To: sneakypete (#823)
(Palo) after Tancredo dropped out Goldi went for that other guy, Hunter
(sneakypete) And Hunter was a guy that made Tancredo seem sincere and the Kennedy family against nepotism by comparison.
I got flamed all over the place for outing Hunter as a liar and a poser on his military record. Even had people calling me a phony vet who knew nothing about the army.

If we are all letting our hair down here
I respected and applauded you for doing that, Pete
I didn't come out publicly and support you, because I wasn't willing to take the heat you were taking
but I admired you for doing it
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 11:44:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#887. To: nooz (#883)
I'm not sensitive about the name at all.

Of course you're not.

What is your problem?

My problem? You and Cynicom are obsessed with a mildly humorous toss-off remark and continue to drag this thread off-topic but I have the problem?
LOL.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 11:46:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#888. To: sneakypete (#821)
(Palo) I eventually returned to LP despite the banning of Ron Paul articles,
I like the forum
and posters disobeyed the banning anyway,
we always had Ron Paul threads going on
(sneakypete) I know. I even posted a couple myself.

thank you very much for that, Pete
I appreciate it
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 11:46:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#889. To: TooConservative (#872)
I like it here. Us normal folk can feel comfortable any where. So thus should Moonbats...

war posted on 2009-03-23 11:49:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#890. To: Rotara (#884)
Love your in-distress upside-down flag and Adams' poignant words. People better start understanding. SOON.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 11:49:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#891. To: Rhino369 (#885)
It also isn't funny. Try again please. You can do better Liberator.

Ok. How about, '@sshole-Spice"?
Hey, how much of a moron does one have to be to actually get banned at LP?

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 11:52:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#892. To: F16Fighter (#890)
Love your in-distress upside-down flag and Adams' poignant words. People better start understanding. SOON.

It's too late for most things but it's not too late to decide to stand up to them and make THEM die for their evil cause vs just kicking back and enjoying the hell bound ride.
Thank you for noticing my friend. We're 'there' now.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 11:53:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#893. To: TooConservative (#887)
Are you kosher ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 11:53:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#894. To: war (#889)
I like it here. Us normal folk can feel comfortable any where.

Seems pleasant enough, a bit of difference in the forum software. LP had sub-forums though those weren't like the ones at FR. LP had no 'private' mail, FR and 4um do (I consider that to be a minus for many reasons). LP had no homepages/bookmarks and 4um and FR do.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 11:56:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#895. To: war (#889)
I like it here. Us normal folk can feel comfortable any where.

"Us normal folk"?? LOL, Who?? Where?? HUH??
(See war? It's just like olde times ;-)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 11:57:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#896. To: Rotara (#893)
Are you kosher ?

Ah, the inevitable question. At least you're direct.
Nope. Gentile.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 11:57:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#897. To: TooConservative (#887)
My problem? You and Cynicom are obsessed with a mildly humorous toss-off remark and continue to drag this thread off-topic but I have the problem?

I asked a simple question and you have turned yourself 8 ways to Sunday to avoid answering it. That's a curiousity. Not an obsession. If you don't want to answer the question just say so.
You, a new poster, in a day and half decides to judge the nature of the forum from a couple of threads against your fascist racist home turf. Then you "doubt" that there is as much freedom as is advertised.
Well, how has it measured up now? Have you been able to engage with anyone without being snapped at for 'pestering' another?
You have some issues and we no longer have to guess at what they are.
Oh, and :)

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 12:00:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#898. To: nooz (#860)
can we not quibble about how it's spelled, so we can bypass the hot button of those who spell Jews, Jooz.....

Button not bypassed.
Shalom.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:00:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#899. To: sneakypete (#824)
We are in agreement on this one. I hate McLunatic so much I would have voted for Soetoro if it had looked like McLunatic was going to win.
BTW,I haven't seen anybody scare the RINO's and their twin brothers the Dims as much as Palin has scared them since Newt first became Speaker of the House. This was back before they got blackmail material on him. The Dims and RINO's get absolutely hysterical every time the name "Palin" is mentioned.
IMHO,she couldn't receive higher praise.

Not a thing I can disagree with you about at all on this.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 12:02:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#900. To: sneakypete (#825)
Yeah,Tancredo switched overnight,and there has to be a reason for it. I have no insider information,I'm just saying blackmail and extortion were the most likely reasons.

I hadn't thought of that; that seems possible.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 12:03:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#901. To: bluegrass (#898)
Button not bypassed.
Shalom.

I gave it a shot. LOL!

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 12:05:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#902. To: TooConservative (#887)
http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/latestcomments.cgi
Tell robin Cyni sent you.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 12:06:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#903. To: sneakypete (#819)
(Palo) I don't think we went overboard for Ron Paul on LP
the candidate with the most energy behind him wins
(sneakypte) Palo,it is true that the mainstream media treated him like he was a social disease,but the truth is he was never going to win to start with,and even if he had of won he would have gotten zero support from the professional pols in either branch of the ruling party. Helping him be successful would have ended their own political careers,and there is no way they would have done this.
Putting a 3rd Party candidate into the White House is a waste of time until there are enough members of congress from the same party as him to provide him with a little support.
I still voted for him,but he had about as much chance of winning the presidency as I did.

I fully believed Ron Paul would win the Presidency which is why I campaigned so hard for him
If I had not believed he had realistic chance of winning, I would not have poured all my energy into making him our President
At that time Sarah Palin had not even entered the picture, look at the other GOP candidates for President!
not a single one of them came even anywhere near Ron Paul!
Ron Paul was the single great candidate, the others were mediocre
Pete, I turned out to be wrong, Ron Paul dd not win the GOP nomination
But I did the right thing for me to give it the good fight when I thought he would win
if you thought he had no chance, then you did the right thing for you
We both wanted to act realistically
we just saw reality differently then
I was wrong, you were right
but I am still glad I believed whole-heartedly he would win, and acted accordingly
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 12:08:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#904. To: Rotara (#892)
It's too late for most things but it's not too late to decide to stand up to them and make THEM die for their evil cause vs just kicking back and enjoying the hell bound ride.

Yeah, it's disturbing to say the least.
It is too late to change most of our subversive leadership, events, and massive wholesale Stockholm Syndrome inflicted upon the pods immediately, but either we stop the hemorrhaging soon and bandage this radically and hastened dismemberment of our Republic, or as many are predicting, THE sh*t WILL hit the fan. And why shouldn't America demand the indictment, arrest, and proper disposal of SEVERAL traitors who've done their best to destroy OUR Republic?
Quite frankly, it's probably a good thing that The Kenyan and his minions are accelerating their Marxist/NWO agenda so quickly - many seem to be snapping out of their respective complacent ideological comas, but will it be a case of too little, too late?

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 12:09:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#905. To: nooz (#897)
I asked a simple question and you have turned yourself 8 ways to Sunday to avoid answering it.

I thought my 872 was as plain as it could be.

You, a new poster, in a day and half decides to judge the nature of the forum from a couple of threads against your fascist racist home turf.

Mmmm...and of course no one else does this? You can't be that naive. As for LP or FR or other forums I've belonged to, I suppose fascist and racist are epithets you can hurl, much as the organized Left does when frustrated or when they lack arguments with any substance. The tactic is quite familiar.

Then you "doubt" that there is as much freedom as is advertised.

I still do. I think it's clear enough there are people who have been banned, probably for disruption.

You have some issues and we no longer have to guess at what they are.

But a poster who spells his handle 'nooz' couldn't possibly have some issues? LOL. Obviously, you're just a wee bit sensitive about anyone pointing it out.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 12:11:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#906. To: nooz (#901)
No harm, no foul.

; )
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:12:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#907. To: TooConservative, christine (#905)
I think it's clear enough there are people who have been banned, probably for disruption.

Ask the board's owner. She's a straight shooter.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:14:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#908. To: TooConservative, war (#894)
LP had no 'private' mail, FR and 4um do (I consider that to be a minus for many reasons). LP had no homepages/bookmarks and 4um and FR do.

These are nice features...
But at FR, the hyenas and jackals used Private Mail as a tool to gang-bang and cannibalize those who opposed The Cult-of-Bush, or those who had/have the "gall" to go against the grain of the consensus.
Personally, I prefer divergent views instead of an echo-chamber, but then again, the OCD-parrots can be annoying.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 12:15:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#909. To: bluegrass, TooConservative (#907)
probably for disruption

correct. there have been few, but in every case they were disrupters--people whose only purpose was to denigrate this forum and its members. i'm sure some were paid shills.

christine posted on 2009-03-23 12:20:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#910. To: bluegrass (#907)
Somewhere earlier on the thread, some of you exchanged remarks about a former poster, can't recall the name. I had the impression of a banning or a blocked IP address, i.e. not a voluntary departure.
Some of you appear to claim the radical free speech position. Given how the owner has couched her terms of service, clearly that is not the case.
Me, I go toward but stop short of the radical free speech position, just last week arguing that it wasn't illegal to shout fire in a crowded theater if there actually is a fire. Not surprisingly, the usual suspects tried to object to even that. It's not a bad argument and can be applied to other topics that are considered too 'hot' for free speech to handle. We do live in an era of political correctness, perhaps not yet at the Soviet level.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 12:20:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#911. To: christine (#909)
And we now have more of the same.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 12:22:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#912. To: christine (#909)
correct. there have been few, but in every case they were disrupters--people whose only purpose was to denigrate this forum and its members. i'm sure some were paid shills.

Doesn't surprise me at all. I just thought some posters here were claiming something you couldn't possibly deliver. Anyway, I've never seen such a forum of any size that had radical free speech.
Thanks for the clarification.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 12:23:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#913. To: F16Fighter (#908)
i don't know if you've noticed, but we also have an Ignore Thread filter and poster edit feature.

christine posted on 2009-03-23 12:23:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#914. To: christine (#909)
i'm sure some were paid shills.

Or they REALLY loved their hobby.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:25:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#915. To: F16Fighter (#908)
But at FR, the hyenas and jackals used Private Mail as a tool to gang-bang and cannibalize those who opposed The Cult-of-Bush, or those who had/have the "gall" to go against the grain of the consensus.

I think most of us can recognize how destructive that was at FR. At LP, there were times I might have liked to exchange a note with a likeminded person. But I thought private mail was so detrimental at FR that I liked LP better for not having the feature.
Like anything else, it's how people use it.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 12:26:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#916. To: TooConservative (#910)
radical free speech position

I suppose people speaking freely amongst themselves is a radical position for some.
As important as speech is the right to associate freely and those rights of property. If some knucklehead wanders onto your property, you have every right to tell them to scoot.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:29:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#917. To: F16Fighter, TooConservative (#908)
But at FR, the hyenas and jackals used Private Mail as a tool to gang-bang and cannibalize those who opposed The Cult-of-Bush, or those who had/have the "gall" to go against the grain of the consensus.

I registered at FR in 2000, I think it was, but did not post there very often. It seemed to me to be a venue in which all of the kids who through the years had been denied a place at the Kewel Kids table or had been pummelled in dodgeball decided to congregate to plot their revenge. Kind of an everted Lord of the Flies.
Oddly, enough, I wasn't banned there until a couple of years ago when some Dick tried to engage me in a cross forum war. And, fwiw, in my direct dealings with JR he was reasonable and a gentleman.

war posted on 2009-03-23 12:29:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#918. To: litus, sneakypete, TooConservative, all (#743)
(Palo) Goldi's candidate was Tancredo, she would have accepted LP becoming Tancredo all-the-time if he had not dropped out
(Litis) Very true; I forgot about that. She was all gungho behind Tancredo ... Ron Paul was a genuine threat to Tancredo at the time.

Litis, LP is a forum divided over the war on terror
half support it, believe it makes our country safe
half are against it, think it is war on the bogeyman
all of us on LP who do not support the war on terror in any way
supported Ron Paul to the hilt
the others chose a different candidate
don't forget Goldi supports the war on terror
there is no way she would support Ron Paul, who would have ended it
as owner of LP, Goldi was able to enforce her views during election
ban Ron Paul articles, support Tancredo and Hunter articles
some left because of this
I left and returned
as Pete said in an earlier post, and forgive me Pete if I got this wrong (I paraphrase)
"I could not do half a good a job as Goldi in moderating the forum"
I go further than Pete, I would be a disaster as forum moderator
whatever its up and downs, I think LP was a good forum for someone who wants to be on an all-viewpoints forum
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 12:31:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#919. To: TooConservative (#905)
I thought my 872 was as plain as it could be.

Apparently not.
Mmmm...and of course no one else does this? You can't be that naive. As for LP or FR or other forums I've belonged to, I suppose fascist and racist are epithets you can hurl, much as the organized Left does when frustrated or when they lack arguments with any substance. The tactic is quite familiar.
No frustration, just fact. You've been calling me names all throughout this thread and I just let them go and keep asking you to clarify one comment that you are now finding it's impossible to run from.

But a poster who spells his handle 'nooz' couldn't possibly have some issues? LOL. Obviously, you're just a wee bit sensitive about anyone pointing it out
If you must know, nooz is for news. I liked the way it looked. Happy now? Feel better? Got to the bottom of that one.
Now, to get to the bottom of JEWIER. Since you are hot for solving mysteries, solve this one for us.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 12:32:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#920. To: war (#917)
in my direct dealings with JR he was reasonable and a gentleman.

No wonder you're an asshole. You get along with Rimjob.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:32:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#921. To: F16Fighter (#908)
Personally, I prefer divergent views instead of an echo-chamber, but then again, the OCD-parrots can be annoying.

I too like divergent views on a forum
for me it enriches the experience
I think because I discover I can see some things differently, and some things the same with many posters
plus I get some idea where others are coming from, it helps my understanding
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 12:37:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#922. To: war, bluegrass (#917)
And, fwiw, in my direct dealings with JR he was reasonable and a gentleman.

I have to agree with blue, anyone that knew RimJob and paid attention could not but help coming away with the knowledge that he was a con artist at best.
Robinson conned hundreds of people, so you are not alone.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 12:38:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#923. To: nooz (#919)
JEWIER

This guy's Jewier:

Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:39:19 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#924. To: palo verde (#903)
Ron Paul was indeed as principled and as intellectually honest a politician as possible...
Not right on all the issues (but who is?), but no one could accuse him of conspired against We-The-People as 90% in Congress and in the Executive Branch have.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 12:39:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#925. To: bluegrass (#920)
No wonder you're an asshole. You get along with Rimjob.

No...I was an asshole loooong before that...it probably just facilitated it...
{:^p

war posted on 2009-03-23 12:39:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#926. To: christine, Cynicom, bluegrass (#913)
I was kind of surprised that none of you noted something rather remarkable yesterday.
From the LRC blog: What is a "Known Maybe Possible Terrorist?"
Look at the source for deCoster's last link. I'll be surprised if that doesn't draw the attention of certain self-appointed guardians of politically correct speech.
Anyway, I thought it notable since the linked site normally can't get such link traffic from a site as big as LRC is. Certainly, I've never seen such a link there before. It's a bit of a risk for them.
I was a little surprised you guys missed it.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 12:40:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#927. To: Cynicom, bluegrass (#922)
To be fair to JR, my dealing with him was to a) have personal information and libel about me removed from a profile and b) to avoid a cross forum war.

war posted on 2009-03-23 12:41:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#928. To: Cynicom, war (#922)
I joined FR in 1997 or so. I was banned after 9/11 for daring to question Der Leader in Wartime.
The Israelis with handles like 'Retired Navy Officer' always cracked me up.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:41:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#929. To: christine (#913)
i don't know if you've noticed, but we also have an Ignore Thread filter and poster edit feature.

"Ignore" as in "Bozo"? And a poster-edit as well?
Hmmm...Where is the "Burger and Fries" feature?
;-)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 12:41:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#930. To: palo verde (#646)
if he is still on 4um at football season you can take him off then

The arrival of football season shall not make him any less of a moron.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 12:41:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#931. To: bluegrass (#923)
This guy's Jewier:

I just posted about the...ahem...gentleman.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 12:42:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#932. To: IndieTX (#647)
One may respect people's right to believe (fill in the blank)...but one does not have to respect what they believe

Well said.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 12:42:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#933. To: TooConservative, christine, Cynicom (#926)
I didn't look at LRC yesterday. Thanks for pointing that out.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:44:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#934. To: IndieTX (#653)
We know posters here like that. The kind that duck dodge hide by saying things like "Both parties are corrupt but republicans are evil.." It's the "BUT" that exposes their true colors. My patience...tolerance if you will...is gone for those who participate in this mad display of cognitive dissonance.

Yeah, the R's ARE evil (most of them anyway) but so are most of the D's. Almost all of them are just bought-and-paid-for whores doing the bidding of the real powers behind the scenes (the bankers).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 12:45:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#935. To: nooz (#919)
Happy now? Feel better? Got to the bottom of that one.

I already had. You just didn't like it. :)

Now, to get to the bottom of JEWIER.

My stars, with all caps now. I'm starting to get a real kick out of this. As an aside, I'll point out that it is a rare word in that it rhymes with 'chewier'.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 12:46:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#936. To: war, Cynicom (#927)
To be fair to JR, my dealing with him was to a) have personal information and libel about me removed from a profile and b) to avoid a cross forum war.

Rather my point. JR is selective in who he helps. It makes me distrust you even more that you claim friendly relations with the bastard.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:47:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#937. To: TooConservative (#915)
I think most of us can recognize how destructive that [Private mail] was at FR...I thought private mail was so detrimental at FR that I liked LP better for not having the feature.

Aye...
Before you knew it, suddenly a half-dozen zombified Freepers would descend on their "victim" like Night 0f the Living Dead - and it's still occurring. The predictable punctuation would be the appearance of Der Fuhrer himself, Jim Robinson to deliver the Final ZOT.
True, the lack of the mail-feature made an organized lynch-mob far less likely."At LP, there were times I might have liked to exchange a note with a likeminded person."
THAT much is true, and on the plus-side of the ledger for having a inter-forum mail feature.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 12:47:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#938. To: bluegrass (#928)
I joined FR in 1997 or so. I was banned after 9/11 for daring to question Der Leader in Wartime.

My opinion about FR, aside from what I have already posted here, is that once Clinton's cock was out of the mix, it was doomed to go the way of stolybreath.com. I'm surprised that there is any interaction there. I may go check it out today because we've kind of put it in the cage but, as a site, I found most of the threads to be echo chambers bereft of any real exchanges and it's ben years since I've lurked and months since I've even looked at it..

war posted on 2009-03-23 12:49:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#939. To: war, sneakypete (#851)
Sneak...you and I agree almost all the never...this is the one time I will agree with you...you never called for anyone to be banned...

Hi war
I agree with you
I never saw Pete ask for anyone to be banned
and while we are at it, I compliment you on this too
it seems to me you never wanted anynoe banned
and you always wanted the banned to be unbanned
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 12:50:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#940. To: bluegrass (#936)
We had a one day exchange over a specific non political situation and, trust me when I tell you this, I am trustworthy.

war posted on 2009-03-23 12:50:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#941. To: palo verde (#939)
Speaking of banned, I know that trixie banned you, but I don't know the reason...did Bill ban you as well and if so why?

war posted on 2009-03-23 12:51:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#942. To: Rotara (#672)
She took repeated dumps on Ron Paul and his supporters

She even threatened to ban people for posting articles about Ron. Do you remember that? She said something to the effect that she didn't want to see any more articles about him unless he had died or something. Real class, eh?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 12:52:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#943. To: James Deffenbach (#934)
Yeah, the R's ARE evil (most of them anyway) but so are most of the D's. Almost all of them are just bought-and-paid-for whores doing the bidding of the real powers behind the scenes (the bankers).

I agree with you, Jim
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 12:52:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#944. To: James Deffenbach, Rotara (#942)
She said something to the effect that she didn't want to see any more articles about him unless he had died or something. Real class, eh?

That was it; that was exactly what she said.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 12:53:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#945. To: war, TooConservative (#917)
It seemed to me to be a venue in which all of the kids who through the years had been denied a place at the Kewel Kids table or had been pummelled in dodgeball decided to congregate to plot their revenge. Kind of an everted Lord of the Flies.

LOL - well put.
" Oddly, enough, I wasn't banned there until a couple of years ago when some Dick tried to engage me in a cross forum war. And, fwiw, in my direct dealings with JR he was reasonable and a gentleman."
IF you happened to engage a Brownshirt Mod directly while he/she was in their poster-mode (and began wiping the floor with that poster), you became a candidate for banning.
As to JR reacting "reasonable and gentlemanly," THAT must have been a looong time ago in another galaxie - before he became a "celebrity" pr*ck and Stalinist tool of the GOP/Bush/NWO machine.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 12:54:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#946. To: war (#940)
Your bootlicking tendencies are what fuel my initial distrust.
I now have to go retrieve my property (car) from thieves (cops-government-towing yard). They claim I can have it back if I give them many FRNs.
Fascism is indeed the merging of the state and the incorporated entity.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 12:54:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#947. To: all (#946)
For those that care, LP is back online.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-23 12:56:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#948. To: bluegrass (#946)
Your bootlicking tendencies are what fuel my initial distrust.

ROFLMAO...
Bootlicking...Batlicking...we're products of the same environment...

war posted on 2009-03-23 12:57:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#949. To: bluegrass (#928)
I joined FR in 1997 or so. I was banned after 9/11 for daring to question Der Leader in Wartime.

THAT would have sealed your fate after about TWO posts....The silly 'Viking Kitties' would have licked their chops.
These days it only takes about 4-5 posts of questioning 9/11 and the Iraq War before you become a target.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 12:57:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#950. To: F16Fighter (#891)
Ok. How about, '@sshole-Spice"?

Bzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong.

Hey, how much of a moron does one have to be to actually get banned at LP?

Goldi is a capricious moderator. You can call people niggers and threaten ethnic cleansing but call her a liar when everyone can clearly see she is lying and you get banned.
She is a fairly stupid, illogical woman. I find it hard to believe she kept it going so long. It started coming apart at the seems when she started banning Ron Paul supporters for the crimes of a few trolls who spammed the board with anti-paul topics, then sided with them. And now she is using the same rhetoric many paul supporters used. She doesn't know what she believes, and is inconsistent.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 12:58:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#951. To: Hayek Fan (#947)
For those that care, LP is back online.

It's up there in interest with having root canal...

war posted on 2009-03-23 12:59:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#952. To: war (#948)
we're products of the same environment...

Obviously not. You still put faith and trust in various governing schemes and scams.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-23 13:04:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#953. To: war (#951)
It's up there in interest with having root canal...

While I no longer post at LP, there is a heck of a lot more traffic (although not as much as in earlier days) so I go there to read threads and to get articles to post here. That is, when I am able to post at all. Most days I'm lucky if even get to look at LP or f4um. I'm usually too busy with school, but it's spring break, so I've allowed myself the luxury. Sigh. Being back in school at 43 is a hell of a lot harder than it was back in my 20's.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-23 13:05:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#954. To: bluegrass, all (#952)
"15. To: Goldi (#14)
Goldi
Would you come over to 4um and pick up your LP trash that have been over there bad mouthing you???? I have a list if you like? Cyni...
Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 13:07:17 ET Reply Trace

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 13:08:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#955. To: bluegrass (#923)
Well, that makes sense.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 13:10:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#956. To: Cynicom (#954)
Who is on the list!

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 13:10:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#957. To: Hayek Fan, nooz (#947)
For those that care, LP is back online.

Mmmm...back to padlock and yukon and Magician...you make it sound so attractive. :)
I do like this version of the forum software a bit better, despite the inclusion of the mail feature.
Of course, all these political forums need to finally move past Perl/Php stuff and go to Web 2.0 and AJAX. At least, if you ever want to grow and draw the energetic younger crowd. Ron Paul did well that way, something the political forums should look at more closely.
Bandwidth doesn't have to go up just because you get AJAXy. Or even just AJAXier than some other site.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 13:11:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#958. To: bluegrass (#952)
You still put faith and trust in various governing schemes and scams.

You mistake what trust is.
The law is what it is. And just because a legislative body CAN legislate it does not mean that we should trust what comes out of them. By the same token, we can't immediately call all legislation unconstitutional just bcauise we do not like it.

war posted on 2009-03-23 13:11:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#959. To: TooConservative (#935)
My stars, with all caps now. I'm starting to get a real kick out of this. As an aside, I'll point out that it is a rare word in that it rhymes with 'chewier'.

Still dodging.
Oh well.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 13:12:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#960. To: Cynicom (#954)
Goldi...Would you come over to 4um and pick up your LP trash that have been over there bad mouthing you???? I have a list if you like? Cyni...

LOL.
And you're the one who has been fuming over forum tattlers?
I've been trying to hold out but you are getting closer to scoring one of my coveted Princess Of Irony wall plaques.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 13:17:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#961. To: F16Fighter (#945)
As to JR reacting "reasonable and gentlemanly," THAT must have been a looong time ago in another galaxie - before he became a "celebrity" pr*ck and Stalinist tool of the GOP/Bush/NWO machine.

Well...my definition of "reasonable" is that he did what I requested that he do and when I told him thank-you he responded with "you're welcome" then banned my account as a "Troll".

war posted on 2009-03-23 13:17:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#962. To: James Deffenbach, ALL (#942)
She even threatened to ban people for posting articles about Ron. Do you remember that? She said something to the effect that she didn't want to see any more articles about him unless he had died or something. Real class, eh?

the funny thing is I was at DIGG at the time
I had left LP in protest of the banning of Ron Paul articles
I was posting on Ron Paul threads at DIGG
(it was a Sunday morning)
when Breaking News article in the Ron Paul section on DIGG went up
with title something like Liberty Post owner calls for Ron Paul asassination
obviously I misread it
I thought "O no Goldi has lost her marbles"
I immediately clicked the link to it on DIGG
and there were about 1000 posts on thread
the actual title was different -- it was something like no articles about RP allowed unless he is assassinated
which is very bad!
I had not been lurking on LP after I left
so I was fascinated to read that long thread
and I have to tell you after all my struggles and ups and downs trying to be on DIGG
plus I did not know anyone there
I found that 1000 post thread, it later became 2000 posts
totally thrilling reading
I spent 2 whole days reading it
there were so many interesting posts, perceptive posts, the discussion was so hot and heavy, and vivid
I had never lurked on LP (only been a poster)
I hadn't appreciated how much intelligence there was on that forum, until I lurked on that long long thread
then I clicked on 4um, which had an extraordinary Ron Paul article posted, by Jacob Hornberger
I was so grateful to 4um for discovering it and posting it
and I took it right over to LP and posted it in Breaking News
another poster (Pern) had defied Goldi's ban that day too, I give him so much credit
he inspired me to defy it
it was like a revolution on LP
Pern went right on defying her ban and posting Ron Paul articles in Breaking News
but I only did 3 altogether, when they were great articles
and I stayed on LP ever since
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 13:18:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#963. To: bluegrass (#946)
I now have to go retrieve my property (car) from thieves (cops-government-towing yard).

Makes you want to pay better attention to those "NO PARKING" signs, tho, eh?

war posted on 2009-03-23 13:18:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#964. To: Rhino369, Cynicom (#956)
Who is on the list!

I demand to be put at the head of the list! ;)
Of course, if Cynicom gets us banned at LP, he'll obviously get stuck with having us here at 4um.
His reasoning skills may be getting a bit rusty when faced with such a dilemma. You can almost hear those creaking gears grinding away, metal fatigue in every sprocket tooth.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 13:20:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#965. To: Cynicom (#954)
Goldi
Would you come over to 4um and pick up your LP trash that have been over there bad mouthing you???? I have a list if you like? Cyni...

We haven't been bad mouthing Goldi
I only read one post by an LPer here which was all-critical
maybe I should just speak for myself
but I think all things considered she did a great job with her forum
because the proof must be in the pudding
it was a great forum (no matter what flaws it had)
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 13:23:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#966. To: TooConservative (#957)
Mmmm...back to padlock and yukon and Magician...you make it sound so attractive. :)
I do like this version of the forum software a bit better, despite the inclusion of the mail feature.
Of course, all these political forums need to finally move past Perl/Php stuff and go to Web 2.0 and AJAX. At least, if you ever want to grow and draw the energetic younger crowd. Ron Paul did well that way, something the political forums should look at more closely.
Bandwidth doesn't have to go up just because you get AJAXy. Or even just AJAXier than some other site.

How do you bold stuff? You're good at THAT sort of thing at least! ;)
But, I don't want to delay your departure a second longer.
Oops, I meant to use my inside voice.

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 13:45:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#967. To: TooConservative (#957)

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 13:47:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#968. To: war, christine (#941)
(war) Speaking of banned, I know that trixie banned you, but I don't know the reason...did Bill ban you as well and if so why?

Hi my sweet darling
Trixie did not ban me, I left Lucianne becuse of her rule posters are not allowed to speak to each other on her forum
I realized we posters on forums are there because we love to communicate with each other
a no-communication rule, would not work for me
the only forum I knew about then was FR, so I went over there
I had trouble at FR because I was critical of Bush
and those FR harpies came over and flamed me for 1000 posts for criticizing Bush
LOL and a lot of their flames were mentally disturbed :)
they weren't yelling at me about my politics
they claimed I was having cyber sex with some poster on FR I never even heard of
I forget his name now
he was a passionate idealist/libertarian
I had criticized Bush on that thread (it was about the DOJ) for not bringing the clinton corruption to justice
I posted Bush demonstrates there is one law for the rich and powerful
and another for schnooks like us
And this poster, very sweetly and gently
tried to get me to see there is no diff. between Pubs and Dems, they are both evil
you know how stubborn I am, War, I stuck to my guns
but I was gentle too, and signed the post "Love, Palo"
there were only 3 posts on that thread then
but I guess a lot of people on FR were bored
someone came on (I didn't know anyone at FR then) and pinged a bunch of people
and next thing I knew 1000 posts about how I am a slut and having cyber sex with this poster
LOL I wish I remember the name of my paramour :)
Love, Palo

I give Christine credit
we were on FR together then, she saw what was happening to me
and she pinged her friend Malador to come to my aid
which he did, he was great!
lol internet is a trip! I was a damsel in distress :)

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 13:54:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#969. To: war (#961)
Well...my definition of "reasonable" is that he did what I requested that he do and when I told him thank-you he responded with "you're welcome" then banned my account as a "Troll".

HEH! A Silent Execution - but done so "civilly". You couldn't have riled him up enough (I'm disappointed in you ;-)
During the last few years Robinson's MO has been to first entertain his fawning sycophants by taunting and playing with "trolls" like a cat with a mouse before stamping-out the offending poster's FR accounts.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 14:14:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#970. To: Rhino369 (#950)
There is always a way to get across your point without wielding a sledgehammer and swinging it at the owner.
Though nuance and finesse has never been any of your strong suits, it doesn't mean you can't start learning from others.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 14:19:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#971. To: nooz (#966)
How do you bold stuff? You're good at THAT sort of thing at least! ;)

Try here to get the little HTML tags needed.
But, I don't want to delay your departure a second longer.
I dunno, I've grown rather fond of some of you during my sojourn here...especially you and Cynicom who have tried so hard to make me feel welcome. I may stick around forever since I can tell that you'd really really miss me.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 14:20:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#972. To: TooConservative (#971)
I dunno, I've grown rather fond of some of you during my sojourn here...especially you and Cynicom who have tried so hard to make me feel welcome. I may stick around forever since I can tell that you'd really really miss me.

Not really, but thanks for the link! Byeeeeeee!

nooz posted on 2009-03-23 14:25:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#973. To: war (#941)
Speaking of banned, I know that trixie banned you, but I don't know the reason...did Bill ban you as well and if so why?

Who is Bill?
I have never been banned on any forum
(forbidden to post there)
but on Liberty Forum, which is self-governing
each time a poster posts, everyone can hit a button about the post
3 posters there hated me, so every time I posted
they hit button to say it was obscene and disruptive
because it is a machine, once it hit 500
(I was not aware of any of this while it was going on)
then I automatically became invisible on the forum
this meant if anyone wanted to see any of my posts
they had to register "I want to read obscene and disruptive posts"
and then my posts would show up for them
I didn't discover this till I posted and then it was invisible to me
someone explained it to me in private mail there
so naturally I quit Liberty Forum
and just went back to LP (I was on both forums then, I think ?)
on LP I posted in Biker Bar about my experience on Liberty Forum
someone from Liberty Forum
a true sweetheart
O War, I tell you, internet is a trip!
here was a guy from Liberty Forum, a main poster there
whose every single post damned Jews to hell
(and you know I am Jewish, and I had told them at Liberty Forum)
I don't know if you know that forum, but they really do not like Jews there
and this poster read (on LP Biker Bar) what happened to me
O what an angel that guy was!
went right back to Liberty Forum, posted an article about it
and got everyone to rate each one of my posts as "excellent"
because the machine automatically takes you off INVISIBLE
if you receive 500 "excellents"
I was so deeply touched
I went right back to Liberty Forum
but after that I was aware of my numbers for "obscene and disruptive"
and when I saw them adding up again
I thought "this is too nerve-wracking"
so I did not come back
I guess not everyone knew I was Jewish there, altho I had posted it several times
the ones who caused me all the trouble were not the anti-Jewish posters
in fact the nazis on the forum were very nice to me
and even invited me to join the BUND :)
LOL
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 14:25:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#974. To: F16Fighter (#969)
HEH! A Silent Execution - but done so "civilly". You couldn't have riled him up enough (I'm disappointed in you ;-)

ON the internet, anyone who can go through a few exchanges without flaming is civil.

war posted on 2009-03-23 14:43:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#975. To: palo verde, Christine (#968)
I had trouble at FR because I was critical of Bush and those FR harpies came over and flamed me for 1000 posts for criticizing Bush LOL and a lot of their flames were mentally disturbed :) they weren't yelling at me about my politics they claimed I was having cyber sex with some poster on FR I never even heard of...

Were you 'Palo Verde' during your FR life?
Wow - Having to fend off the usual blood-thirsty gaggles of cowardly Bush-Bot hyenas and jackals is tough enough - but then to have them slander you a la the Democrat Machine?
The names may have changed, but the same idiocy and hypocrisy still reigns, engaging in EXACTLY the same MO these days - AND for the same reason.
No Palo, nothing much has changed at FR.
I give Christine credit we were on FR together then, she saw what was happening to me and she pinged her friend Malador to come to my aid which he did, he was great!"
Good for both of them...Chivalry is NOT dead :-)
Btw, whatever happened to Malador? He was ok in my book.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 14:45:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#976. To: F16Fighter (#929)
Where is the "Burger and Fries" feature?

that's next. ;)

christine posted on 2009-03-23 14:45:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#977. To: FormerLurker (#818)
Goldi would use the ANTI Ron Paul posts as an example of "spam" yet allow those obvious spam posts to stand, right up till the electon.
If it came from a blog and was nothing but pure bullshit, it stayed on LP. If it was a legitimate news article about Ron Paul, it was deleted and the poster would be banned and/or chastised.

Yeah, that is the way I remember it too.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 14:47:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#978. To: TooConservative (#926)
i haven't read LRC in months. thanks for the headsup. i see deCoster's post links back to AmericanFreePress.

christine posted on 2009-03-23 14:50:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#979. To: sneakypete (#823)
And Hunter was a guy that made Tancredo seem sincere and the Kennedy family against nepotism by comparison.
I got flamed all over the place for outing Hunter as a liar and a poser on his military record. Even had people calling me a phony vet who knew nothing about the army.

Yeah, I noticed that. But you still "done good" to out him. He is sort of like that guy you nailed on FR that time, DITHF.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 14:50:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#980. To: war (#974)
ON the internet, anyone who can go through a few exchanges without flaming is civil.

Unfortunately, you're right.
I think that's because the poster is attacked instead of the argument; But then again, some assume if the point is "stupid" and "ignorant," then the poster is as well.
I admire those (and I freely admit I'm NOT one) who are able to stay the course on the issue...
Of course those who constant whine to mods, "ad hominem" while sticking the knife in on the other hand can't be respected.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-23 14:53:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#981. To: palo verde, TLBSHOW (#939)
you always wanted the banned to be unbanned

The Toddler was always posting to Jim Robber: "Unban the banned." Tickled me BUT GOOD.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 15:14:38 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#982. To: litus (#944)
That was it; that was exactly what she said.

I was one of Ron's early supporters (early as in I voted for him when he ran for President under the Libertarian banner in 1988). I didn't like Goldi's insane antics regarding Ron and his supporters. And I told her so.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 15:16:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#983. To: Cynicom (#954)
"15. To: Goldi (#14)
Goldi
Would you come over to 4um and pick up your LP trash that have been over there bad mouthing you???? I have a list if you like? Cyni...
Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 13:07:17 ET Reply Trace

LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 15:19:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#984. To: palo verde (#962)
I believe I was still posting on LP at the time you mentioned but left shortly afterward. I was not going to post on a political board that would not allow articles about someone who was running for President, thought it was ridiculous and heavy handed.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 15:22:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#985. To: F16Fighter (#980)
I admire those (and I freely admit I'm NOT one) who are able to stay the course on the issue...

My problem is that I can smell bullshit a mile away...and how I have survived in this business is in knowing when to expose it and when to ignore it and allow it's own stink to out it...
When it comes to these web boards, tho, I always feel the need to expose it.
I'm curious as to when you - and anyone else who may read this post - started posting on the web. I started in 1995 on MSN's Discuss and Debate which became Politics and Philosophy ...

war posted on 2009-03-23 15:41:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#986. To: TooConservative (#964)
I demand to be put at the head of the list! ;)

Bye loser.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 15:49:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#987. To: James Deffenbach (#982)
As did I.

litus posted on 2009-03-23 15:50:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#988. To: Fred Mertz (#852)
Palin is the female version of Dan Quayle.

As mcuh as it pains me to say this...I'd give the edge to her...she's got some ass while Quayle is just an ass...

war posted on 2009-03-23 15:56:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#989. To: sneakypete (#829)
I didn't post many,but the few pro-Ron Paul threads I posted were not deleted.

Towards the beginning Goldi didn't delete them. After the obvious spammers and/or professional operatives filled LP with their blog articles on RP, only the spam was allowed to remain. There was some character whose handle I can't remember, but was probably an earlier incarnation of McCain_Rocks. People would frequently point out to Goldi his violation of her rules, yet he would continue to merrily post all sorts of absurd BS concerning RP yet any valid article about RP posted by sincere posters would be cause for a banning.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 16:03:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#990. To: war (#835)
Wha...chuckle...huh? Go back and rrada it again moron...a point further OUT the the right on an X-axis is a GREATER number, doof.

The report you link stated that it would have been possible for the WTC to collapse by "pancaking" in 8 seconds, yet it would have taken an object 9.2 seconds to hit the ground if it had fallen through thin air when dropped from the top of the WTC. That is impossible, yet folks like you not only believe that it is possible, but you view it as scientific fact.
Then you have the gall to think you know more about physics than those who know better, and have the audacity to call them morons or worse...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 16:09:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#991. To: FormerLurker (#990)
Lets see the experiments ran by truther civil engineers to show a theoretical collapse time for the towers. That type of experiment should be fairly easy to run. So how long is long enough for the towers to fall?
And exactly why would demolitions cause the tower to fall faster?
Thanks.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 16:11:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#992. To: war (#836)
The steel did NOT disintegrate dickweed...

You have been a nasty mouthed little troll here war, I thought higher of you back on LP. Do you always resort to that sort of tactic when you are shown to be wrong?
Anyways, the collapse photos most certainly show the majority of the upper structure being pulverized and ejected sideways.
There was a HUGE loss of mass due to that, therefore there would be SUBSTANTIALLY less load on the lower portion of the structure. In fact, there was probably less loading force due to the kinetic energy of the upper part of the tower collapsing than the usual static loading force due to the potential energy of the upper part of the structure.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 16:20:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#993. To: Rhino369 (#956)
Who is on the list!

Sorry, not free to say, I passed the list via email.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 16:21:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#994. To: Rhino369 (#991)
And exactly why would demolitions cause the tower to fall faster?

The demolitions would cause the floors below the falling upper part of the structure to give way before the upper structure reached them, thus providing no resistance to the falling mass.
If those floors hadn't yet been destroyed, it would have taken additional time for the falling structure to break through each one.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 16:23:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#995. To: FormerLurker (#990)
I posted three vids that proved with actual physics formulas that even if conditions were ideal (they weren't even close to ideal) that it would have taken 44 seconds to collapse.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-23 16:39:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#996. To: FormerLurker (#994)

The demolitions would cause the floors below the falling upper part of the structure to give way before the upper structure reached them, thus providing no resistance to the falling mass.
If those floors hadn't yet been destroyed, it would have taken additional time for the falling structure to break through each one.

Video evidence shows no explosions on the lower floors while it is falling down.
So how long should it have taken for the towers to collapse?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 16:40:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#997. To: Cynicom (#993)

Sorry, not free to say, I passed the list via email.

Haha wow, you really are pissed at the LP refugees huh.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 16:41:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#998. To: IndieTX (#995)
I posted three vids that proved with actual physics formulas that even if conditions were ideal (they weren't even close to ideal) that it would have taken 44 seconds to collapse.

Unfortunately real engineers aren't going to use youtube videos to argue a claim like that. Do you have a paper on it?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 16:43:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#999. To: F16Fighter (#975)
Were you 'Palo Verde' during your FR life?
The names may have changed, but the same idiocy and hypocrisy still reigns, engaging in EXACTLY the same MO these days - AND for the same reason.
No Palo, nothing much has changed at FR.

Hi sweetie
yes I wss palo verde on FR
I did stay on FR after my drama with the harpies, but I never posted a political post there again
I had zero desire for them to come after me again after that
(it was a long 3 day weekend, thread ran to 4000 posts)
all of them flaming me until the very end when Malador came in to save me
lol it was one of those internet experiences of a lifetime :)
it was stressful for me while it was going on, but afterwards I felt liberated
LOL it gave me so much practice in "Don't attack, don't defend"
I came out unscathed because I never got mad
after that I went to a convivial thread on FR and just stayed on it, making jokes and having fun
and I did have a great deal of fun
I might have just stayed there (on that fun thread at FR)
but Christine emailed me that Goldi was starting LP
and I should join
which I did, and then I started to post politically again
it was while I was at LP that the Snow Bunny episode took place at FR
we had lots of threads about it on LP
it's funny now that I think about it, Malador was a Prince to Snow Bunny too
she emailed him, and he brought her to LP so we could all line up on her side
but I thought it was so mentally disturbed what FR posters had done to SnowBunny
that I never considered returning to FR again
For JimRob to have permitted (encouraged?) that is out of bounds
Love, Palo
it hits me now that there is less insanity on the net than there used to be
hahaha we are all becoming mentally sane

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 16:55:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1000. To: palo verde (#999)
1000
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 16:56:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1001. To: James Deffenbach (#1000)
1001
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 17:01:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1002. To: Rhino369, IndieTX (#998)
I posted three vids that proved with actual physics formulas that even if conditions were ideal (they weren't even close to ideal) that it would have taken 44 seconds to collapse.
Unfortunately real engineers aren't going to use youtube videos to argue a claim like that. Do you have a paper on it?

Physics formulas are physics formulas. What does it matter if they're on paper or on a video? Did you watch the videos?
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 17:03:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1003. To: Rhino369 (#996) (Edited)
Video evidence shows no explosions on the lower floors while it is falling down.

There are various videos showing material being ejected out of the windows of floors below the collapsing upper structure PRIOR to the upper floors falling on top of them, if you could even call it that as it appeared more like a progressive pulverization than a "fall".
So how long should it have taken for the towers to collapse?
From 87.9 to 96.7 seconds;

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 17:04:56 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1004. To: Rhino369 (#997)
Haha wow, you really are pissed at the LP refugees huh.

Good heavens no.
Been around many of them since 1998 or thereabouts.
Sometimes I like to tweak the noses of frauds, no matter if olde or new friends.
I go way back to being friends with Aplus+ Bert, if you recall those days??

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 17:06:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1005. To: wudidiz (#1002)

Physics formulas are physics formulas. What does it matter if they're on paper or on a video? Did you watch the videos?

I wasn't linked to the videos, but I will watch them. But yes it does matter that they are on video and not paper. Its very easy to fudge the numbers on a short video, and much harder to fudge numbers and use the wrong equations on a peer reviewed paper.
If you use the wrong equation for the wrong material you won't get anywhere near the correct answer.
Anyone with an engineering background can tell you this. If you start with garbage data, and use the wrong equations you can show anything.
So lets see the videos.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:07:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1006. To: Cynicom (#1004)
I go way back to being friends with Aplus+ Bert, if you recall those days??

Hahaha ! 1998

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 17:08:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1007. To: Rhino369, IndieTX (#1005)
So lets see the videos.

freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...rtNum=97175&Disp=469#C469
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 17:11:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1008. To: FormerLurker (#1003)
The floors being crushed below the fracture point are not in free fall, they are having what is basically a inelastic collision with the falling top part of the tower. That means that momentum will be conserved and the bottom part will accelerate faster than gravity. That graph assume that each floor starts free falling the moment is is impacted.
Either that graph is a joke, an intentional fraud to trick the uneducated, or done by someone who didn't even finish a decent high school.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:13:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1009. To: wudidiz (#1007)
Thanks let me watch them.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:14:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1010. To: Rotara (#1006)
Hahaha ! 1998

Dont tell me you go that far back????
Damn.
When Bert was overly liquid and disorderly, I could tell him to go to bed and he would.
Beyond that, a very interesting gentleman, a background few knew.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 17:14:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1011. To: Rhino369 (#1008) (Edited)
That graph assume that each floor starts free falling the moment is is impacted.
Either that graph is a joke, an intentional fraud to trick the uneducated, or done by someone who didn't even finish a decent high school.
That graph was created by Dr. Judy Wood, here's her bio;;

Brief Biographical Sketch for Judy D. Wood, Ph.D.
Website: http://drjudywood.com/email: lisajudy [at] nctv.com

Judy D. Wood is a former professor of mechanical engineering with research interests in experimental stress analysis, structural mechanics, optical methods, deformation analysis, and the materials characterization of biomaterials and composite materials. She is a member of the Society for Experimental Mechanics (SEM), co-founded SEM’s Biological Systems and Materials Division, and currently serves on the SEM Composite Materials Technical Division.
Dr. Wood received her
B.S. (Civil Engineering, 1981) (Structural Engineering),
M.S. (Engineering Mechanics (Applied Physics), 1983), and
Ph.D. (Materials Engineering Science, 1992) from the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia.
Her dissertation involved the development of an experimental method to measure thermal stresses in bimaterial joints. She has taught courses including Experimental Stress Analysis, Engineering Mechanics, Mechanics of Materials (Strength of Materials) Strength of Materials Testing

From 1999 to 2006 Dr. Wood has been an assistant professor in the Mechanical Engineering Department at Clemson University in Clemson, South Carolina. Before moving to Clemson she spent three years as a postdoctoral research associate in the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Tech. One of Dr. Wood's research interests is biomimicry, or applying the mechanical structures of biological materials to engineering design using engineering materials. Other recent research has investigated the deformation behavior of materials and structures with complex geometries and complex material properties, such as fiber-reinforced composite materials and biological materials. Dr. Wood is an expert in the use of moiré interferometry, a full- field optical method that is used in stress analysis, as well as materials characterization and other types of interference. In recent years, Dr. Wood and her students have developed optical systems with various wavelengths and waveguides. Dr. Wood has over 60 technical publications in refereed journals, conference proceedings, and edited monographs and special technical reports.
Dr. Wood started to question the events of 9/11 on that same day when what she saw and heard on television was contradictory and appeared to violate the laws of physics. Since that day she has used her knowledge of engineering mechanics to prove that the collapse of the World Trade Center twin towers could not have happened as the American public was told.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 17:55:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1012. To: wudidiz, IndieTX (#1007)
He is trying to model a collision with a freebody diagram. You cannot do that. He is assuming that the "resistance" force stays constant, when in fact the collision would shatter the top floors almost instantly, at which point the weight they could hold is no longer the weight they could hold before the impact. This is entirely bait and switch. The math they are doing is correct but they fail to properly model the situation.
Want to see what I'm saying. Turn a glass upside down, and place a ball on top of it. Of course the baseball will rest gently on the top of the glass. Using this guys phsyics that means the "resistance" force of the glass is at least 1 baseball*9.8m/s^2, or 1 baseball*g.
Now throw the baseball directly down at the glass. The glass shatters. After the impact is the glass providing 1 baseball*g resistance force? No, its providing almost none because it shattered.
In order to do the calculation this guy is attempting you'd have to run equations on a collision. This requires much more complicated equations. Basically you will have to calculate how much force the building experiences as the top collides with the bottom.
To find that force you'd find the momentum the top of the building had p=v*m; p=9.3m/s*massTopBuild
then the force = d(p)/dt. And since that bulding is made of steel that will not compress all that much that force is going to be >> than the resistance force he calculated since the collision happens over a very small period t.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:56:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1013. To: war (#851)
..you never called for anyone to be banned...

Thanks.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 17:59:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1014. To: FormerLurker (#1011)
Why that can't be! It looks like she did finish high school after all. LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 17:59:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1015. To: FormerLurker (#1011)
Did she write a paper, or only a picture with no explanation?
Because interestingly enough my material science engineering professor disagreed. He actually in class talked about how the towers fell. http://www.matse.illinois.edu/faculty/johnson/profile.html
If she wrote why should thinks the way she does her claims can be analyzed.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 17:59:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1016. To: meguro (#853)
I never saw it either.

Thanks to you,too.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:00:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1017. To: Fred Mertz (#861)
I saw that Mossad Magician threw that cheap shot at you. And I defended you.

Thanks,Fred. I guess the site was pulled down before I got to see that.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:02:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1018. To: Rhino369 (#1015)
He actually in class talked about how the towers fell.

FAST. Kinda like a controlled demolition fast.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 18:03:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1019. To: Rhino369 (#1012)
Believe what you want.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance... that principle is contempt prior to investigation" Herbert Spencer
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-23 18:04:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1020. To: palo verde (#886)
Thank you Palo. That was a very nice thing for you to say.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:05:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1021. To: sneakypete (#1020)
Nice to see you hanging around; considering the mother site is back up. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 18:07:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1022. To: litus (#900)
I hadn't thought of that; that seems possible.

I do believe that is the standard way high level business is conducted in DC now. Been that way ever since Poppy Bush took office.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:09:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1023. To: Rhino369 (#1008)
The floors being crushed below the fracture point are not in free fall, they are having what is basically a inelastic collision with the falling top part of the tower. That means that momentum will be conserved and the bottom part will accelerate faster than gravity. That graph assume that each floor starts free falling the moment is is impacted.

Your analysis is flawed in some key respects.
First off, the collision is in fact inelastic as although the upper structure is MERGING with the lower structure, there IS a huge amount of pulverization going on where a large amount of mass is being ejected in the form of dust.
The energy required to pulverize the floors needs to be subtracted from the kinetic energy required to accelerate the mass downwards, leaving less available energy to continue the collapse; there IS such a thing as conservation of energy in case you didn't hear about it in your studies.
As far as the graph, it assumes that the top floor is pulverized as it hits the floor below, yet leaving enough kinetic energy to break the lower floor causing it to fall, (ie. pancaking).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:10:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1024. To: James Deffenbach (#1014)
Why that can't be! It looks like she did finish high school after all. LOL!

Yeppers... :)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:11:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1025. To: Cynicom (#1010)
To be completely transparent here; I wouldn't have been surprised if you had said you were a sobered up version of A+. Good times inside the matrix. If that's possible. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 18:16:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1026. To: Rhino369 (#1015)
Did she write a paper, or only a picture with no explanation?

Well she does have a website that describes her thoughts, and she has given a presentation on her ideas at the 2006 Society for Experimental Mechanics Annual Conference.
But here's something from her site that you may wish to consider...
From A Refutation of the Official Collapse Theory

Appendix A: For those concerned about momentum.

Conservation of Momentum and Conservation of Energy
Conservation of Momentum:
The amount of momentum (p) that an object has depends on two physical quantities: the mass and the velocity of the moving object.

p = mv
where p is the momentum, m is the mass, and v the velocity.

If momentum is conserved it can be used to calculate unknown velocities following a collision.

(m_{1 *}v₁)_i + (m_{2 *}v₂)_i = (m_{1 *}v₁)_f + (m_{2 *}v₂)_f
where the subscript i signifies initial, before the collision, and f signifies final, after the collision.

If (m₁)_i = 0, and (v₂)_i = 0, then (v₂)_f must =0.
So, for conservation of momentum, there cannot be pulverization.

____________________________________
If we assume the second mass is initially at rest [(v₂) _i = 0], the equation reduces to
(m_{1 *}v₁)_i = (m_{1 *}v₁)_f + (m_{2 *}v₂)_f
As you can see, if mass m₁ = m₂ and they "stick" together after impact, the equation reduces to ,
(m_{1 *}v₁)_i = (2m_{1 *}v_new)_f
or v_new = (1/2) _*v₁
If two identical masses colliding and sticking together, they will travel at half the speed as the original single mass.

Conservation of Energy:
In elastic collisions, the sum of kinetic energy before a collision must equal the sum of kinetic energy after the collision. Conservation of kinetic energy is given by the following formula:
(1/2)(m_{1 *}v²₁) _i + (1/2)(m_{2 *}v²₂)_i = (1/2) (m_{1 *}v²₁)_f + (1/2)(m_{2 *}v²₂) _f + (Pulverize) + (Fail Floor Supports)

where (Pulverize) is the energy required to pulverize a floor and (Fail Floor Supports) is the energy required to fail the next floor.
If (1/2)(m_{1 *}v²₁) _i + (1/2)(m_{2 *}v²₂)_i = (Pulverize) + (Fail Floor Supports), there well be no momentum transfer.

In reality, (1/2)(m_{1 *}v²₁)_i + (1/2) (m_{2 *}v²₂)_i < (Pulverize) + (Fail Floor Supports),
So, for conservation of energy, we must assume there is some additional energy such that,
(1/2)(m_{1 *}v²₁) _i + (1/2)(m_{2 *}v²₂)_i + (Additional Energy) = (Pulverize) + (Fail Floor Supports),
where (Additional Energy) is the additional amount of energy needed to have the outcome we observed on 9/11/01.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:20:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1027. To: Rhino369 (#1008)
The floors being crushed below the fracture point are not in free fall, they are having what is basically a inelastic collision

BTW, the "official story" requires the collision to be elastic, and that is what has been depicted in TV shows showing the pancake theory in all its offical glory.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-23 18:28:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1028. To: F16Fighter (#904)
Quite frankly, it's probably a good thing that The Kenyan and his minions are accelerating their Marxist/NWO agenda so quickly - many seem to be snapping out of their respective complacent ideological comas,
I agree 100%,.
but will it be a case of too little, too late?
I don't know,but I do know it seems to be the only thing that might save the Republic other than a violent revolution,and violence should always be avoided if at all possible.
If one of the "usual suspects" is elected in 2012,we are out of options.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:45:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1029. To: christine (#909)
correct. there have been few, but in every case they were disrupters--people whose only purpose was to denigrate this forum and its members.

If that was the case, you did the right thing by banning them. People can't talk or debate with others constantly throwing bombs.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:47:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1030. To: palo verde (#918)
as Pete said in an earlier post, and forgive me Pete if I got this wrong (I paraphrase) "I could not do half a good a job as Goldi in moderating the forum"

Close enough.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:51:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1031. To: James Deffenbach, palo verde (#930)
The arrival of football season shall not make him any less of a moron.

Seems to me it makes people into BIGGER morons.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:54:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1032. To: palo verde (#939)
I never saw Pete ask for anyone to be banned

Thanks,Palo. You are the third one that has said this.
I wonder if it is sinking in yet?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 18:57:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1033. To: sneakypete (#1032)
I never did see you call for anyone to be banned either Pete.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 18:59:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1034. To: Rhino369 (#950)
And now she is using the same rhetoric many paul supporters used. She doesn't know what she believes, and is inconsistent.

Maybe she has grown and started to open her eyes?
I remember back in the 60's when I was a Dim. Jim-Mah Cawtur convinced me I wasn't.
After that I thought I was a Republican. The Bush Crime Family and FR convinced me I wasn't.
We are all subject to change our minds as we learn new information.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:01:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1035. To: war (#951)
For those that care, LP is back online.

It's up there in interest with having root canal...

I like it over there. Does this mean you won't be going back and I can't pick on you about Acting President Soetoro?
Can you send a couple of other yankees over to take your place?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:03:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1036. To: TooConservative, Cynicom (#960)
And you're the one who has been fuming over forum tattlers?

LOL! Some people just can't see the forest for the trees,can they?
G'wan! Give it to him! You know you want to.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:06:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1037. To: sneakypete (#1032)
I missed where this all started, but Calling for Banning and Pete, DON'T go into the same line.. Not Now, Not Never.. it's that clear..

Refinersfire posted on 2009-03-23 19:07:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1038. To: sneakypete (#1028)
but I do know it seems to be the only thing that might save the Republic other than a violent revolution,and violence should always be avoided if at all possible.

I agree SP, yet I feel this is the direction we're tumbling toward. And not to sound sanctimonious, but it isn't our side who is itching for a fight. All most want is to be left alone and to have a feeling that government is somewhat responsive to basic requests.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-23 19:07:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1039. To: palo verde (#939)
Palo,
I hope you stay over here.. as it has a lower level of "hate", if you know what I mean.. ;-)

Refinersfire posted on 2009-03-23 19:08:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1040. To: war (#985)
I'm curious as to when you - and anyone else who may read this post - started posting on the web. I started in 1995 on MSN's Discuss and Debate which became Politics and Philosophy ...

1995 on the AOL political discussion boards,and I think my first post was a serious rant about the IRS. Don't remember what I said now,but it must have been a good one because the AOL monitor sent me a email warning me about how there was no way to tell who was reading my words,and about how petty some government employees could be. He ended up by suggesting to me that I change my screen name.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:16:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1041. To: Cynicom (#1004)
I go way back to being friends with Aplus+ Bert, if you recall those days??

I still miss seeing A+'s posts. He was posting over on LF for a while. Have any idea if he is still alive?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:21:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1042. To: Rotara (#1021)
Nice to see you hanging around; considering the mother site is back up. ;-)

Thanks. I'll go back over there and continue to post,but I'm probably come over here more often now if I have the time.
I'm actually trying to cut back on my posting now that the weather is sometimes getting warmer. I have a lot of outside work to do.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:25:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1043. To: James Deffenbach (#1033)
I never did see you call for anyone to be banned either Pete.

Thanks.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:27:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1044. To: Refinersfire (#1037)
I missed where this all started, but Calling for Banning and Pete, DON'T go into the same line.. Not Now, Not Never.. it's that clear..

Thanks.
It started with someone who claimed he knew my posting history.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:28:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1045. To: Jethro Tull (#1038)
And not to sound sanctimonious, but it isn't our side who is itching for a fight.

I know I'm not,but if I ever do get started I will get serious about it.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 19:29:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1046. To: Cynicom, Rhino369 (#993)
Sorry, not free to say, I passed the list via email.

Ah, compiling lists of enemies, dossiers of damaging statements, sending them along to the "proper authorities"...
Why, it's a veritable Springtime For Nixon.
Would you care to take this opportunity to remind us all again of how 4um is a forum entirely free of thread-nannies and tattlers?

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 20:01:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1047. To: sneakypete (#1044)
It started with someone who claimed he knew my posting history.

I know your posting history very well.
When confronted with facts that challenge your emotion based world view , you often respond with emotional rants that include name calling and attacks against the character of the individuals you disagree with.

honway posted on 2009-03-23 20:10:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1048. To: TooConservative (#1046)
Would you care to take this opportunity to remind us all again of how 4um is a forum entirely free of thread-nannies and tattlers?

This one was until you arrived with your anti semetic flag waving.
You did serve a useful purpose of some value, those reading my words took heed.
Not you, your jewishessier or whatever is belied by your running to Goldie.
What a class act.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 20:22:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1049. To: wudidiz (#1019)
Believe what you want.

No, I know what is.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 20:29:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1050. To: sneakypete (#1031)
Seems to me it makes people into BIGGER morons.

LOL! I can't see where any number of football seasons or any other season for any sport will help the addled guy palo was talking about.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 20:31:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1051. To: FormerLurker (#1023)

Your analysis is flawed in some key respects.
First off, the collision is in fact inelastic as although the upper structure is MERGING with the lower structure, there IS a huge amount of pulverization going on where a large amount of mass is being ejected in the form of dust.
The energy required to pulverize the floors needs to be subtracted from the kinetic energy required to accelerate the mass downwards, leaving less available energy to continue the collapse; there IS such a thing as conservation of energy in case you didn't hear about it in your studies.

My analysis took into account the inelastic collision.

there IS such a thing as conservation of energy in case you didn't hear about it in your studies.

Actually in an elastic collision kinetic energy is NOT conserved. That is the defining characteristic of one.

As far as the graph, it assumes that the top floor is pulverized as it hits the floor below, yet leaving enough kinetic energy to break the lower floor causing it to fall, (ie. pancaking).

The video shows that the top floors stayed in tact at least most of the way down.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-23 20:39:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1052. To: Cynicom (#1048)
You did serve a useful purpose of some value, those reading my words took heed.

In your addled dreams.
I saw that a few hours without me posting, you turned on nooz.

your jewishessier

My what? LOL.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 20:59:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1053. To: TooConservative (#1052)
Too...
report some anti whatever to goldie like a good little boy...
By your own admission. what a sorry person you are indeed. It is fortunate for you that ELPee will tolerate you.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 21:00:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1054. To: Refinersfire (#1039)
Hi darling
I am so happy to see you
Gosh it's been a while
a whole election has come and gone
War joined this forum, he left LP
he posted "I can't take the insanity anymore"
I guess that is what you are referring to (I just overlook those posts)
And after Ron Paul dropped out, I campaigned on LP for Sarah Palin
I love that girl
and the result is posters who treated me like a sworn enemy before
are posting hugs and kisses to me
It is irresistible being friends with those who saw me as an enemy
so I guess for me LP has more love on it now
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 21:13:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1055. To: wudidiz (#1019)
Hey, wudi.
I recall last year, your posts at FR. You were the first 'martyr' on what became a long list of FReepers who bit the bullet for supporting Ron Paul.
Remember this little ping list graphic for the RP Horde at FR?

Ron's weekly message [5 minutes audio, every Monday]
Podcast Weekly archive Toll-free 888-322-1414
Free Republic Ron Paul Ping List: Join/Leave

Ah, the wrath that little banner could provoke among the freeper herd...
Anyway, I hadn't run into you but thought I'd tell you that you were only the first one banned. Dozens of us never backed down and ended up taking a bullet for RP, many of us having been there for 6-8 years. Of course, since it was FR that wasn't too huge a huge sacrifice.
I do hope a few of them survived the purge, just for next time.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 21:19:03 ET (13 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1056. To: sneakypete, F16Fighter (#1028)
(F16Fighter) Quite frankly, it's probably a good thing that The Kenyan and his minions are accelerating their Marxist/NWO agenda so quickly - many seem to be snapping out of their respective complacent ideological comas
(sneakypete) I agree 100%,.
(F16Fighter) but will it be a case of too little, too late?
(sneakypete) I don't know,but I do know it seems to be the only thing that might save the Republic other than a violent revolution,and violence should always be avoided if at all possible.
If one of the "usual suspects" is elected in 2012,we are out of options.

fascinating posts by both of you
thought provoking and true too
thank you
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 21:20:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1057. To: Cynicom (#1053)
report some anti whatever to goldie like a good little boy...

You mean when I flagged Goldi to notify her that the troll Mrs. Yukon was posting St*rmfr*nt threads? Of course I did. That was only one of the really offensive threads "she" posted. She was an obvious disruptor.
BTW, it was Mrs. Yukon who seemed to be luring us over to 4um with her remark, "Freedom4um is better than LP". Check that same thread and see for yourself.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 21:26:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1058. To: palo verde (#1054)
War joined this forum, he left LP
he posted "I can't take the insanity anymore"

Oh the irony! The men in the white coats may be able to help him when they catch up with him.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 21:27:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1059. To: TooConservative (#1057) (Edited)
I find it rather amusing that you have not a clue as to what a Jew is, a man that runs and tattles every time he senses anti semitism, yet he performs more like a programmed robot than a goy.
When you have time, do try to enlighten yourself as to what constitutes a present day Jew, until then nothing you say makes any sense.
as a starter ask goldie if she is Jew by race or culture or religion. I did long ago.
You might learn something. loser

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 21:31:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1060. To: Cynicom (#1059)
When you have time, do try to enlighten yourself as to what constitutes a present day Jew, ...

I thought you had already publicly declared me to be a Real Live Jew. On the basis of your recommendation, I'm on the fast track to join LP's ultra-elite Jew Club. Mad Dog says all I have to do is learn the secret handshakes.

... until then nothing you say makes any sense.

Uh...right.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 21:38:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1061. To: TooConservative (#1060)
Real Live Jew

You are, a cultural Jew that whines anti semitism at every turn of the wheel..
Recall YOU brought up the subject, no one here.
Doesnt it just chap your Kibbutz when there is no one to whine to???
Sniveling wont work either. Loser

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 21:41:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1062. To: James Deffenbach, war, christine (#930)
The arrival of football season shall not make him any less of a moron.

LP is back up and eventually I will have to go back and deal with the news again
I think the trick with War is not to take it personally because he doesn't mean it personally
he posts the same way and the same things to everyone, I think he has no animosity to anyone
I don't know how to explain it, think of thunder in the sky
it's not really directed at you, it is just thunder which likes to thunder
but he is a warm loving human being
it showed thru a lot recently on LP (before he left it because of "the insanity")
when stock market went crazy
War works on Wall Street and knows finance inside out
result is on stock market threads, some posters were buying and selling stocks
even tho some posters have been to war with War for years
when they asked for his suggestions or ideas
he couldn't have been more helpful and generous and kind
He really is a paper tiger, which doesn't mean that fighting with him is not like entering a bramble bush
unless you dig fighting I wouldn't advise it
but he really is a honey bun
Love, Palo

palo verde posted on 2009-03-23 21:44:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1063. To: TooConservative (#1057)
BTW, it was Mrs. Yukon who seemed to be luring us over to 4um with her remark, "Freedom4um is better than LP".

i only occasionally click on LP since i left 4 yrs ago and that's usually when a poster gets banned from there and comes here and posts links. i don't even know most of the screen names there anymore. i have no clue who Mrs Yukon is.

christine posted on 2009-03-23 21:47:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1064. To: Cynicom (#1061)
You are, a cultural Jew that...

But you just posted at LP that all Jews are cultural Jews, that race was somehow irrelevant.
I know consistency is a hobgoblin of small minds but you seem to be charting new horizons in hobgobling.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 21:48:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1065. To: christine (#1063)
i have no clue who Mrs Yukon is.

I certainly didn't mean to imply you did any such thing or that there was some concerted subterfuge from 4um.
As the other LP posters have stated, you have been welcoming and gracious to us.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 21:50:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1066. To: TooConservative (#1064)
Too...
Try to get up to the 21 Century.
It seems to be beyond your ability to understand that "jew" is currently different from the worn out tripe you espouse when you see anti semitism under your bed, in your soup and hear weird things in your head.
Did you ask goldie if she is Jew by race, religion or culture????? Bet you didnt.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 21:57:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1067. To: Cynicom (#1066)
Did you ask goldie if she is Jew by race, religion or culture????? Bet you didnt.

Why would I exactly? I'm not that curious about her personal life though I might read it if she wanted to write about it. Since she doesn't care to write about it, I don't think about it. As you so obviously do.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 22:02:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1068. To: palo verde (#1062)
I think the trick with War is not to take it personally because he doesn't mean it personally

I think the trick is to ignore him. Anyone who calls me a liar is not someone whose posts I care to read. I didn't lie, merely posted an excerpt from an article which posited that his hero, the "Magic Negro" wasn't born in Hawaii. And I included the links so that people could check it out for themselves. Still, he had the audacity to call me a liar. Screw him, I don't have the time or patience for morons like him.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 22:05:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1069. To: TooConservative (#1067)
See.
Give you a simple job that would expand your knowledge horizon and you blow it again.
Listen up dimbulb, goldie has spoken many times over the years about her life, she has never hidden anything, like some people I know.
Arent you glad you didnt move in the furniture now???
The cultural environment is so much better at LP, you have Yuk, Marge the Hag and Magic the two faced clown.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 22:09:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1070. To: James Deffenbach (#1068)
I think the trick is to ignore him.

I put him on ignore long ago as he has never produced or offered anything of value.
He reminds me of the whining child that wants attention all the time.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 22:10:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1071. To: christine (#1063)
Can I post a vanity informing the F.O.O.L.s (Friends Of Official LieS) that Liberty Post is back online?
Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-23 22:13:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1072. To: Critter (#1071)
This thread needs killing, any way possible.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 22:15:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1073. To: Critter (#1071)
wud beat you to it

christine posted on 2009-03-23 22:24:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1074. To: christine (#1073)
Yeah, but wud did it nicely. My title would have been way different. :)
Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-23 22:29:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1075. To: Cynicom (#1070)
I put him on ignore long ago as he has never produced or offered anything of value.
He reminds me of the whining child that wants attention all the time.

I think that is the best way to handle the pests. Just ignore them. They may not go away but then you don't have to read their foolishness.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 22:39:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1076. To: James Deffenbach (#1075)
James...
Well, is time I retire. I have been over at LP muddying up the water, insulting a lot of people, chapping their kibbutzs, just being a pain in general.
Tomorrow is another day and I leave you with this...
"
Catch This Con-Job
Obama is going to spend $1 trillion to buy bad loans from the banks. The Zio-Cons on Wall Street pumped up the DOW 500 points, and weary Americans are ecstatic. Obama says there will be private money involved.
So in reality the taxpayers will give a boxcar of gold coins to the Zionists, they will give Obama a sh*tload of bad paper, and he will sell it for five cents on the dollar to anxious investors.
In short - Weinberg's Savings and Loan forecloses on your home, then the federal government gives Weinberg S&L $400,000, and Obama gets the house deed. Now comes Jake Colonstein, a private investor, and he buys your deed for $25,000.
Just to show you, you have been bent over one more time.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 22:45:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1077. To: Cynicom (#1076)
Obama is going to spend $1 trillion to buy bad loans from the banks.

I wouldn't care if the politicians would spend their own money and whoever wanted to go in with them on the "great deal" they are "investing" in. But I hate to see people make "investments" at the point of a gun or threat of prison.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 22:53:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1078. To: Cynicom, James Deffenbach (#1076)
Just to show you, you have been bent over one more time.

You know what gets me even more hot under the collar, they won't even give me a kiss first!!!!!

Refinersfire posted on 2009-03-23 22:54:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1079. To: Refinersfire (#1078)
You know what gets me even more hot under the collar, they won't even give me a kiss first!!!!!

Or afterwards either. Nope, all they want to do is screw you. No romance whatsoever.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-23 22:55:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1080. To: Cynicom (#1069)
Listen up dimbulb, goldie has spoken many times over the years about her life, she has never hidden anything, like some people I know.

And why exactly am I supposed to care that much about Goldi's personal life?
You seem to despise her and her forum but you can't seem to avoid lapping up this shit as fast as you can.
And you like to fume about other people that you call 'losers'?
Here's a clue: look in the mirror, bub.
I'm sure not the one obsessing over forums I hate and their owner's personal life or background.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 23:22:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1081. To: TooConservative, Thread, Hahahahaha (#1080)
2. To: All (#1)

I dunno if we have a hardware issue or not, and I'm nearly out of money raised since last fundraiser. So I'm going to have to have a fundraiser (soon) starting in a couple days to make sure we have funds if something needs to be replaced or repaired.

Goldi-Lox posted on 2009-03-23 13:19:06 ET Reply Trace

Yup. It's fundraiser time !
LOL !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:34:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1082. To: Rotara (#1081) (Edited)
Yup. It's fundraiser time !
LOL !!

Didn't FR used to have outages right before the fundraisers? She needs a mysterious Texan to step in.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-23 23:38:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1083. To: All (#1081)
13. To: MrSpock (#12)
There's a 973 post thread over at freedumb4UM about the outage.

reaganisright posted on 2009-03-23 14:29:33 ET Reply Trace

yeah, reaganisright is sooooo freakin' brilliant that he posts at an israel-first website for a schizoid jewess. Brilliant !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:38:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1084. To: farmfriend (#1082)
Didn't FR used to have outages right before the fundraisers?

xoxoxo, ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:39:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1085. To: TooConservative (#1080)
14. To: reaganisright (#13)

There's a 973 post thread over at freedumb4UM about the outage.
They just love us over there. Especially me. LOL.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 14:35:50 ET Reply Trace

You should stick around.
Or hang tuff at the israel-first site. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:40:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1086. To: All (#1085)
23. To: DAnconia55 (#20)

I suspect the dumb dumbs.
Goldi has a target on her back because of our dislike of Obama.
Those on f4um that liked Obama were attacked so unmercifully that they left the site and created their own forum several months prior to the election.

Fibr Dog posted on 2009-03-23 15:20:55 ET Reply Trace

And we'd be glad to do it ALL over again !
When I want a really good LOL I drive by the people's place and whiz on the one or two posters that contributed that day.
;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:43:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1087. To: All (#1086)
24. To: reaganisright, MrSpock (#13)
There's a 973 post thread over at freedumb4UM about the outage.
Yes.. I read some of that last night... it quickly became a 9/11 CT thread...... LOL
IrishThatcherite posted on 2009-03-23 15:28:21 ET Reply Trace

911 Official Story® bump

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:44:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1088. To: All (#1087)
34. To: reaganisright, MrSpock, Goldi-Lox, TXBSAFH, Fred Mertz, fogarty, Murron, ironalek, beyond the sea, TooConservative, Sarajevo, liberator, DAnconia55, Fibr Dog, IrishThatcherite, NterTained Lurker, WhiteSands (#13)

There's a 973 post thread over at freedumb4UM about the outage.
Correction:
There's a thread over at FreedomForum about the outage that has 973 (now 987) posts; but there are probably only about 100 posts on that thread that are actually about LP.
The rest are about Jews, who loves Jews, who hates Jews; Obama, Obama's eligibility, his parents and their citizenship status; Bush, 9/11, Bush causing 9/11, Bush NOT causing 9/11, Bill Richardson's citizenship as an anchor baby; and, a dozen other things not having a damn thing to do with Liberty Post.
In addition, there's the inevitable post by Rhino of his twice-the-width-of-a-monitor-screen Obama's COLB that while adding no new or beneficial information, still effectively screws up the entire thread for everyone.
It appears that some things never change, regardless of what forum you're on... Though, thankfully, there was no glc1173 advertising there!
Having said that, LP is, has been, and always will be the best!
WELCOME BACK TO LIFE, LIBERTY POST!
PS: Goldi, I'm glad you're ok.

packrat1145 posted on 2009-03-23 16:19:50 ET Reply Trace

mims, you're a freakin' nut burger.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:46:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1089. To: Sarajevo (#1088)
43. To: packrat1145 (#34)

The rest are about Jews, who loves Jews, who hates Jews; Obama, Obama's eligibility, his parents and their citizenship status; Bush, 9/11, Bush causing 9/11, Bush NOT causing 9/11, Bill Richardson's citizenship as an anchor baby; and, a dozen other things not having a damn thing to do with Liberty Post.
You forgot the demolition of the Twin Towers

Sarajevo posted on 2009-03-23 17:02:28 ET Reply Trace

Dumb phuck,
Please explain why WTC 7 was demolished and why they lied about it in spite of eyewitnesses and the building owner's own words ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:49:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1090. To: All (#1089)

48. To: packrat1145 (#40)
As long as you keep focused on whatever it is that the Jews did it you can tolerate 4UM. No matter what it is it is about Israel and the Jews being behind it. I am not a Jew but it gets tiresome. That and the Twin Towers being demolished and oh yes the chemtrails.

JTIDSGUY posted on 2009-03-23 17:42:46 ET Reply Trace

Another israel-first genius.
He's so smart he shills on an israel-first site.
Brilliant !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:50:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1091. To: All (#1090)
49. To: packrat1145 (#34)

There's a 973 post thread over at freedumb4UM about the outage.
Correction:
There's a thread over at FreedomForum about the outage that has 973 (now 987) posts; but there are probably only about 100 posts on that thread that are actually about LP.
The rest are about Jews, who loves Jews, who hates Jews
I strongly doubt that any poster loves Jews at 4umdumdum :)
Hi , All
I've missed all the drama, being away :)

Marguerite posted on 2009-03-23 18:33:02 ET Reply Trace

You luciferian globalist world order golden calf jews can all dry up and blow away for all I care.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:51:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1092. To: All (#1091)
62. To: Goldi-Lox (#0)
Goldi?
The Joo trackers want to know; how come the ADL didn't have Mossad install a whole warehouse filled with redundant servers for LP?

WhiteSands posted on 2009-03-23 19:43:54 ET Reply Trace

That's actually a pretty good question.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:53:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1093. To: sneakypete, TooConservative (#1092)
66. To: TooConservative (#14)

They just love us over there. Especially me. LOL
I really do think you made a couple of friends. Just make sure you soak the presents in water for a little while before opening them.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-23 20:19:38 ET Reply Trace

LOL !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:54:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1094. To: All (#1093)
67. To: Goldi-Lox (#6)
You'll be getting my Paypal donation today. A weekend without this forum is a good reminder of how rare a commodity free speech is these days.

Loportyx posted on 2009-03-23 20:23:35 ET Reply Trace

sucker !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:55:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1095. To: Cynicom, TooConservative (#1094)
69. To: TooConservative (#68)

Put your little beanie on and twaddle off to the synagogue, LOSER.

Cynicom posted on 2009-03-23 20:35:14 ET Reply Trace

DOH !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-23 23:56:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1096. To: Rotara (#1085)
You should stick around. Or hang tuff at the israel-first site. ;-)

Why not both?
I just quite can't bear to leave Cynicom pining for me. That's just the kind of guy I am, always thinking of others.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-23 23:58:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1097. To: sneakypete (#1016)
I never saw it either.
Thanks to you,too.

You're welcome, but no need to thank me.
I'm just calling like I see it.

meguro posted on 2009-03-24 0:02:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1098. To: Rotara (#1093)
You didn't notice how excited I was over that lovely present Cynicom sent me?

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 0:06:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1099. To: TooConservative (#1096)
Why not both?

That seldom really works out.
Do you consider yourself an America first individual ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 0:07:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1100. To: TooConservative, Cynicom (#1098)
Can't speak for Cynicom.
He doesn't trust you.
I don't really know you. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 0:08:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1101. To: Rotara (#1099)
Do you consider yourself an America first individual ?

What else? I'm Midwestern.
Are you still seriously thinking I'm actually Jewish?
Let's see. I thought about it today and I have met only three Jewish persons (to my knowledge) in my entire life. I live hundreds of miles from a synagogue.
You guys are so wide of the mark, it's not even funny. Well, okay, kinda funny.
Jews rarely enter my thinking much. I get the feeling that some of you probably can't imagine that too well.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 0:17:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1102. To: TooConservative (#1101)
Don't take it personally.
*You* wandered in from an Israel-First web channel.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 0:18:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1103. To: destro (#1102)
Greek salad tossing fudge pirate ?

Did you just get yukoned ???

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 0:19:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1104. To: TooConservative (#1101)
If you get a chance, please relay to fudgepackerat1145jtmims that the CFR doesn't take applications - only referrals from members. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 0:23:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1105. To: Rotara (#1086)
When I want a really good LOL I drive by the people's place and whiz on the one or two posters that contributed that day.

LOL!
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 0:30:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1106. To: farmfriend (#1105)
hehehehe

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 0:35:45 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1107. To: Rotara (#1106)
I don't think I have ever been over there. Not that I would be welcome. Don't think I even have the url. Don't want it either.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 0:39:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1108. To: farmfriend (#1107)
I don't think I have ever been over there. Not that I would be welcome. Don't think I even have the url. Don't want it either.

I use a prophylactic Internets service for my drive by whizzes.
I'd hate to bring something nasty home ! ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 0:41:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1109. To: Rotara (#1108)
I'd hate to bring something nasty home ! ;-)

We thank you for your kind consideration.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 0:52:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1110. To: TooConservative (#1055)
I don't think I posted at FR last year. I think I've posted there only once and it was a Ron Paul banner too. I think it got deleted.
I was at Libertypost some.
When I was bored.
Silly.
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-24 0:52:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1111. To: Rotara (#1102)
*You* wandered in from an Israel-First web channel.

Hmmm...but to you, isn't that like 99.9% of all political or news/opinion websites? I'd conclude that the membership here is yet another exodus (heh-heh) from another site. For that reason, this site is reactionary toward LP in the same way that the LePers are reactionary toward FR. And I recognize a fair number here who have migrated FR->LP->4um. Ignoring their other faults, at least the freepers never spent their time obsessing over Luciane's old forum.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 0:53:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1112. To: TooConservative, rotara (#1111)
Ignoring their other faults, at least the freepers never spent their time obsessing over Luciane's old forum.

Oh yes they did. They also had fits over Clown Posse. I was booted off FR, as were many others, for posting over there. I was booted off LP for posting over here. Tell me exactly where the difference is again?
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 0:56:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1113. To: Critter (#1074)
Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Very funny stuff. :-)
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-24 0:59:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1114. To: TooConservative (#1111) (Edited)
Hmmm...but to you, isn't that like 99.9% of all political or news/opinion websites?

I'm totally convinced that FR and LP are *NOT* America first chat channels.
I speak from a decade of research and investigation on both sites, their owners, funding, traffic, tech contacts, etc.
In ameriKa, you could be right on your percentages.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 1:03:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1115. To: farmfriend (#1112)
Tell me exactly where the difference is again?

As long as they cling to lies they'll never experience the truth. :sigh:

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 1:04:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1116. To: Rotara (#1115)
Mostly due to structural failure.
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-24 1:06:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1117. To: farmfriend (#1112)
They also had fits over Clown Posse. I was booted off FR, as were many others, for posting over there.

I wasn't but used a different handle. Didn't post that much, there were some very odd posters there and they clearly didn't respect privacy.

I was booted off LP for posting over here.

Oh? I didn't know there was such a rule at LP. Seems strange so many of us were over here during the outage if that is uniform policy at LP.
You know, those Klowns could be wildly funny. I always think of the FR cruise thread. The posts. The pictures! Oh, Lordy.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 1:08:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1118. To: TooConservative (#1111)
you have 4mail

christine posted on 2009-03-24 1:14:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1119. To: TooConservative (#1117)
Oh? I didn't know there was such a rule at LP.

It was the reason Goldi gave when she was asked about it. She stated falsely that I had announced I was posting over here. I made no such announcement. Yukon was the one who made an issue of my last post at LP. It was deleted. His betrayal will never be forgiven!
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 1:14:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1120. To: wudidiz (#1116)
Mostly due to structural failure.

Take a viagra and log on later. LOL ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 1:20:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1121. To: Rotara (#1091)
I strongly doubt that any poster loves Jews at 4umdumdum :)
Hi , All
I've missed all the drama, being away :)

Marguerite

Such a kind hearted soul she is, eh?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-24 1:47:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1122. To: war (#958)
The law is what it is.

The "law" is just legal plunder now. You're no more than another mere asskisser of the "law".
If you're happy and you know it, clank your chains.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-24 2:28:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1123. To: war (#963)
I paid attention to the signs. I got ticketed anyway.
When paying the extortion money to the city today, the slave behind the city's collection desk was an acquaintance I hadn't seen in a number of years. The number kept changing from $140 to $170 and then he settled on $185. In a civil and polite voice, I asked, "Jim, you seem like a nice guy. Why do you work for an extortion outfit like this?"
He got a little testy and said, "We can't discuss this" and then refused to talk to me any further. I wrote down Frederic Bastiat's name and the title of his book, "The Law" and asked him if he'd ever heard the term 'legal plunder' before. He took the slip of paper. I hope the poor little slave reads the book.
Name one thing that the government does that improves our lives. I bet you can't come up with even one.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-24 2:39:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1124. To: TooConservative (#1101)
Jews rarely enter my thinking much.

Excellent. Your conditioning was a resounding success. They sure had you thinking about Muslims for while.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-24 2:43:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1125. To: IndieTX (#1121)
I strongly doubt that any poster loves Jews at 4umdumdum :)

My best online friend is BluesDuke and guess what, he is Jewish.. so I guess she is all wet..
Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies
Refinersfire posted on 2009-03-24 3:23:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1126. To: farmfriend, TooConservative, rotara (#1112)
Ignoring their other faults, at least the freepers never spent their time obsessing over Luciane's old forum.

And I was booted from Trixies Site, for being a Friend of Pat Buchanan and working for Pat/against Bush's Election.. Guess I called that one right :-()
Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies
Refinersfire posted on 2009-03-24 3:26:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1127. To: Rhino369 (#1051)
Actually in an elastic collision kinetic energy is NOT conserved. That is the defining characteristic of one.
You have it reversed. It is an INELASTIC collision that the kinetic energy is NOT conserved.
In an elastic collision kinetic energy IS conserved. The equation for kinetic energy in an elastic collision is as follows;

It wouldn't make any sense for an inelastic collision to conserve kinetic energy, as by definition an inelastic collision is one which kinetic energy is transferred to other forms. Since it took energy to pulverize the structure, the collision was inelastic as the energy was transferred to the pulverization process, and also in the way of heat.
The video shows that the top floors stayed in tact at least most of the way down.
You are kidding yourself. The top part of the structure started to pulverize even BEFORE it fell past the damaged section. Post a video that shows anything other than what I just said.
Additionally, since the loss of a large amount of the structure caused by the pulverization presented a lower mass in terms of momentum, and the lower UNDAMAGED structure was not a free standing object in a closed system but a rigid structure resting upon an immovable surface (hence being acted upon by an external force), the idea of momentum goes out the door as well.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 4:44:39 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1128. To: IndieTX (#1121)
Such a kind hearted soul she is, eh?

I wonder how many Palestinian children she's murdered, and whether or not she had a smile on her face while pulling the trigger.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 4:47:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1129. To: honway (#1047)
When confronted with facts that challenge your emotion based world view , you often respond with emotional rants that include name calling and attacks against the character of the individuals you disagree with.

it's true that I have a low tolerance for fools. Guess I stepped on your toes at one time or another,huh?
Did I call for you to be banned?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 6:05:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1130. To: TooConservative, Cynicom (#1060)
I thought you had already publicly declared me to be a Real Live Jew.

Well,one thing I think everybody will agree on is that it is MUCH better to be a real live Jew than to be a real dead Jew.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 6:10:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1131. To: TooConservative, Cynicom, farmfriend (#1117)
I was booted off LP for posting over here. Oh? I didn't know there was such a rule at LP.

There isn't and never has been. I've been registered and have posted at both sites ever since they started up and have never been banned from either.
In fact,Cynicom was posting on LP last night. Since he openly hates Goldi AND LP he would have been banned on LP long ago if there were such a policy.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 6:49:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1132. To: Rotara, wudidiz (#1120)
Mostly due to structural failure.
Take a viagra and log on later. LOL ;-)

"log" on??????
Are you flirting with him?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 6:55:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1133. To: sneakypete, TooConservative, Cynicom, rotara, twentytwelve (#1131)
There isn't and never has been.

Are you calling me a liar?
I saved Goldi's post!

FF was banned for trolling for members for another forum after announcing she was leaving to go there. (She likely only was another day or so here. Damage control.)

I made no such announcement!!! Nor was I "trolling for members!"
Here is the banning post from FR just for good measure.
And fuck you for insinuating I was lying!
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 7:49:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1134. To: farmfriend (#1119)
It was the reason Goldi gave when she was asked about it. She stated falsely that I had announced I was posting over here. I made no such announcement. Yukon was the one who made an issue of my last post at LP. It was deleted. His betrayal will never be forgiven!

Wow. I didn't realize quite the extent these forums are private clubs.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 8:12:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1135. To: FormerLurker (#990)
The report you link stated that it would have been possible for the WTC to collapse by "pancaking" in 8 seconds

WRONG MORON he wrote that he had read that the free fall speeds VARIED from 8- 18 seconds. He said that the MINIMUM TIME would have been 9.1 seconds.
2.0 WTC COLLAPSE TIMES
The collapse times of each of the two WTC towers are very important parameters in the estimation of the energy transfer involved in these events. In this report we define the collapse time, tc, as the observed time interval for more than 95 % of the mass of the WTC tower (WTC 1 or 2) to fall to “ground zero”. This, of course, requires a definition of the start of the collapse. Because of uncertainties in the timing of the WTC collapseinitiating and terminating events, many different values of tc have been reported; however, the published values (I have seen) all fall in the range 8 – 18 seconds. In addition, Newtonian mechanics dictates a minimum value for the collapse time, tc, which is calculated, (allowing for the thickness of each floor), as followsf82;:tc = h54;(2h/g) = h54;{2(416 f85;10)/9.81} = 9.1 seconds f82; The calculations included in this report are based on well-documented values for the WTC height, weight and other building specifications as listed in Appendix 1.
~snip~
You've displayed a stupidity that is rapidly becoming BOUNDLESS.

war posted on 2009-03-24 8:16:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1136. To: FormerLurker (#992)
Anyways, the collapse photos most certainly show the majority of the upper structure being pulverized and ejected sideways.

Post an analysis of the WTC dust as I did.
Thanks...

war posted on 2009-03-24 8:22:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1137. To: FormerLurker (#992)
You have been a nasty mouthed little troll here war, I thought higher of you back on LP. Do you always resort to that sort of tactic when you are shown to be wrong?

You have yet to show me anything other than how stupid people ***think***. IN point of fact, none of you have. You are ALL, to a man [and possibly woman[ Moonbats.
At every turn with every aspect of yout "theory" you have been show that all of what you believe, think and promote has 0 basis in fact. Yet, two posts later, you are promoting the same corrupt nonsense.
Let's cut to the chase here. What do YOU believe happened that day and there had better be links to HARD evidence not smoke and mirrors?

war posted on 2009-03-24 8:27:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1138. To: TooConservative (#1134)
Wow. I didn't realize quite the extent these forums are private clubs.

They all seem to have their rivals. I've always posted on several forums at a time. I currently post on 4 or 5.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 8:29:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1139. To: sneakypete (#1035)
I like it over there. Does this mean you won't be going back and I can't pick on you about Acting President Soetoro?

Until Goldi either enforces her rules or eliminates them my contributions will be next to nothing. This isn't a gun to her head. This is me standing by my principles.

war posted on 2009-03-24 8:30:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1140. To: palo verde, James Deffenbach (#1062)
I think the trick with War is not to take it personally because he doesn't mean it personally

I appreciate you "explaining" me sweetie; however, in this case I am 199% standing by my claim that this guy is a liar.

war posted on 2009-03-24 8:34:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1141. To: bluegrass (#1123)
Name one thing that the government does that improves our lives.

Roads.

war posted on 2009-03-24 8:35:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1142. To: war (#1137)
At every turn with every aspect of yout "theory" you have been show that all of what you believe, think and promote has 0 basis in fact. Yet, two posts later, you are promoting the same corrupt nonsense.
And you are a fucking liar. I HAD thought you to be an ok person in my earlier days on LP, but I think your little rivalry with Badeye was just for show. For all I know, you are him, and posted back and forth to yourself in order to earn your paycheck.
You are a clueless idiot who DOES NOT understand simple facts and obvious impossiblities, you rely on magical thinking to form your worldview and spit out whatever bullshit you feel like if you think it will help your cause.
Let's cut to the chase here. What do YOU believe happened that day and there had better be links to HARD evidence not smoke and mirrors?
It is a physical impossibility for the towers to have collapsed the way they did without help from some type of explosive. It is impossible that people who are still alive piloted the planes into those buildings. And there is NO evidence that those people boarded the planes. Hell, you can't even find a real flight manifest, yet you are acting as if you've presented factual data and solid scientific proof. You have posted NOTHING of relevence, and have resorted to ad hominem to "make your case".
You are a fucking shill.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 9:25:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1143. To: sneakypete, farmfriend, TooConservative, Cynicom (#1131)
There isn't and never has been.

At the time, Goldi was having a bad hair day apparently and had banned several old time posters for daring to speak about Ron Paul. She banned anyone who "was recruiting for another forum", farmfriend mentioned 4um, and was banned shortly afterwards.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 9:28:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1144. To: war (#1135)
WRONG MORON he wrote that he had read that the free fall speeds VARIED from 8- 18 seconds. He said that the MINIMUM TIME would have been 9.1 seconds.

Well asswipe, I didn't have time to do anything other than quickly glance at the report, saw what I thought it said, and gave my opinion.
At least I'll admit I was wrong. I've yet to fully read it, I'll get back to you when I do.
So when will you ever admit YOU ARE wrong, eh war?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 9:30:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1145. To: war (#1136)
Post an analysis of the WTC dust as I did.

Here's one for you to ponder;
The North Tower's Dust Cloud
Now explain to everyone how a dust cloud can cause an intact floor to collapse, as the upper structure was pulverized into dust as it collapsed, leaving very little mass to actualy impact the lower floors.
BTW, do you have calculations as to how much energy would be required to cause an entire floor to fail instantaneously by impact? There would be VERY little energy left over after the pulverization of an upper floor as it impacts a lower floor, and the lower floor must be caused to fail by the remaining energy if the "pancake" theory can be taken seriously.
So go ahead, give us the equations and the details.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 9:38:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1146. To: FormerLurker (#1144)
So when will you ever admit YOU ARE wrong, eh war?

I do whan I am. There are two instances on this board so far.
Well asswipe, I didn't have time to do anything other than quickly glance at the report, saw what I thought it said, and gave my opinion.
So, by your own admission, you "quickly glanced" but decided to rant away anyway.
That speakes volumes, dude.

war posted on 2009-03-24 9:44:56 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1147. To: FormerLurker, christine (#1143)
I don't like it if I feel I'm the resident of some plantation.
OTOH, I do grasp that disruptors will sometimes try to ruin another forum or poach posters from another forum. So if I were a mod or forum owner and saw that happening, I would warn them and then ban them.
People act as though only forum owners are ever sneaky and snarky or underhanded or operating from false motives. It's the posters that are by far the worst. The forum owners generally have a fairly moderate attitude until some disruptors or persons with bad motives start trolling or poaching their forum.
For instance, if I came over here and said nasty stuff about Goldi, I wouldn't expect to be welcome any more at LP. Same for FR and for Freedom4um. Free speech isn't the right to bite the hand that feeds you. And donations to these forums are not the purchase of a service which grants you any rights unless that is what they state explicitly.
There's always a tug-of-war over moderation, wannabe mods, trolls, poachers, Klownish types, donors who think someone owes someone something, those who play tricks with private messaging, etc.
Being a forum owner or mod isn't quite so easy as some people think. It's like herding cats. Real sneaky bloodthirsty cats. :)

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 9:45:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1148. To: FormerLurker (#1145)
Now explain to everyone how a dust cloud can cause an intact floor to collapse, as the upper structure was pulverized into dust as it collapsed, leaving very little mass to actualy impact the lower floors.

Geezus fucking Crickets...
The "top structure" was NOT "pulverized"...what WAS pulverized was concrete, glass, people and drywall...
BTW, do you have calculations as to how much energy would be required to cause an entire floor to fail instantaneously by impact?
dude...did you even GLANCE atthat report?

war posted on 2009-03-24 9:47:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1149. To: war (#1146)
So, by your own admission, you "quickly glanced" but decided to rant away anyway.

I admitted that I was wrong on that ONE point concerning the statement I thought had been made in the report you linked.
That's infinitely more than anything you do, you simply ignore any facts posted and toss out ad hominem comments since you can't refute those facts.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 10:04:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1150. To: war (#1148)
The "top structure" was NOT "pulverized"...what WAS pulverized was concrete, glass, people and drywall...

The "top structure" was NOT "pulverized"...what WAS pulverized was concrete, glass, people and drywall...
Are you retarded? You contradict yourself within the same sentence. That "concrete, glass, and drywall..." along with furniture and office equipment had WEIGHT, in fact, MOST of the weight of any particular floor. The steel columns are a mystery as they should have remained standing even WITH a "pancake" collapse. In fact, the core could not collapse per se, it would have needed to have been shredded and torn apart for it to totally fail.
Anyways, what kinetic energy there was due to the momentum of the upper structure was largely expended in pulverizing the upper structure to dust, where there could have been very little kinetic energy left to break all the trusses and supports of the floor below
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 10:12:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1151. To: TooConservative, F16Fighter (#1147) (Edited)
The forum owners generally have a fairly moderate attitude until some disruptors or persons with bad motives start trolling or poaching their forum.

Goldi got rid of pretty much anyone that didn't tow the pro-zionist line and who actively refuted it. I was initially banned for not cheering the bloodlust celebrations over the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, and the deaths of several UN observers due to an Israeli attack on their position.
She used a BS excuse where I had told liberator to be careful what he was saying, as he had called for the assassination of the UN Secretary General. She claimed that I was threatening to turn him in where I hadn't, as was obvious to anyone who was reading that thread.
In regards to Ron Paul supporters, she was banning them as quickly as Robinson and his mods "ZOT" new members who don't kiss the ass of the RNC.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 10:20:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1152. To: FormerLurker (#1150)
How do you propose the government faked the collapse? Planting explosives on every floor and blowing them up one by one in perfect order as the towers fell?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-24 10:20:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1153. To: war (#1146)
Damn, that's mean. Turning it all the way to eleven...you're a bastard, war.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 10:24:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1154. To: Rhino369 (#1152)
How do you propose the government faked the collapse? Planting explosives on every floor and blowing them up one by one in perfect order as the towers fell?

The collapse certainly wasn't faked, the buildings WERE destroyed. However, the impact of the airliners was just for show, the REAL cause of the demolition was something else.
That explosives were never even CONSIDERED by the government indicates they have something to hide, as terrorists are no strangers to explosives and had in fact tried to plant explosives in the WTC back in 1993. Oddly, the person who planted that explosive was an FBI informant.
Any reasonable analysis would HAVE to include explosives, yet from the very start people who suggested that area be investigated were called "conspiracy nuts".
That strikes me as a coverup, and then you need to ask yourself, why would they cover that up? Of course, only those with something to hide need to coverup anything...
As far as your question concerning how it was done, and your theory of planting explosives in every floor, it would only need to be done every 10 floors, but every floor isn't impossible either.
And since the core disappeared where it should have remained standing, it's not impossible for some classified weapon to have vaporized it, AND for high explosives planted in critical areas to cause the rest of the structure to collapse as it did.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 10:33:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1155. To: TooConservative (#1153)
Damn, that's mean. Turning it all the way to eleven...you're a bastard, war.

The new ones go up to 12...

war posted on 2009-03-24 10:36:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1156. To: FormerLurker (#1154)
In other words, despite the voluminous evidence that you have been shown that your beliefs have no basis in fact, you cling to them like a baby to a blankey...
And since the core disappeared
The core was cement...

war posted on 2009-03-24 10:38:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1157. To: FormerLurker (#1142) (Edited)
And you are a fucking liar. I HAD thought you to be an ok person in my earlier days on LP, but I think your little rivalry with Badeye was just for show. For all I know, you are him, and posted back and forth to yourself in order to earn your paycheck.

He very well could be Badeye--he was bragging one day about all the money he made. As if I gave a $#it. But it made him sound just like Badeye. You know how he was always bragging about all his "stuff" and how much money he made.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 10:41:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1158. To: FormerLurker (#1142)
It is a physical impossibility for the towers to have collapsed the way they did without help from some type of explosive.

A plane exploded on impact. Let's cut to that chase. You DENY that it did. I challenge you to cite one other instance in which a plane carrying fuel impacted a solid object and did not explode.

war posted on 2009-03-24 10:44:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1159. To: James Deffenbach, FormerLurker (#1157)
He very well could be Badeye--

You two are certifiable.

war posted on 2009-03-24 10:46:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1160. To: James Deffenbach (#1157)
he was bragging one day about all the money he made.

Challenge.

war posted on 2009-03-24 10:46:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1161. To: FormerLurker (#1151)
Goldi got rid of pretty much anyone that didn't tow the pro-zionist line and who actively refuted it. I was initially banned for not cheering the bloodlust celebrations over the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, and the deaths of several UN observers due to an Israeli attack on their position.

If that is a forum owner's policy, it's fine with me as long as they make it clear that a policy preference is the official one for that forum. I don't like it if they pretend to be all free speechy but actually aren't. I take no position on your characterization of Goldi's banning of you since I wasn't watching that at the time.

In regards to Ron Paul supporters, she was banning them as quickly as Robinson and his mods "ZOT" new members who don't kiss the ass of the RNC.

I doubt she could have banned RP folk faster or more capriciously than FR did.
You should understand that a lot of the RP folk hung out at RonPaulForums and kind of griefed a bunch of forums, trying to 'bomb' them with RP material. I don't think any forum owner is obligated to let their forum be used as someone's press release site. Left to themselves, they would have used every forum to be all-Ron-all-the-time. Hell, even I'm not that into Ron Paul. I warned those kids from RPF that their tactics wouldn't be tolerated on these old established conservative boards but they had that wild-eyed True Believer™ fever, a real bad case of it, something only complete political neophytes come down with.
Any forum owner has to decide their focus somewhat, how much they want to allow certain topics and certain posters to dominate their front pages, like the all-important sidebars on these forum sites. I think there is probably a limit to how many Birthy/Truthy/Jewy articles you can have in your sidebar if you intend to appeal to a wide audience. (How compatible those interests are fundamentally and in the demographics of those who hold those views, we'll leave aside.) If a wide audience isn't your objective, you can focus much more on particular topics and look to recruit new members based on their interest in those topics.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 10:46:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1162. To: FormerLurker (#1149)
I admitted that I was wrong on that ONE point concerning the statement I thought had been made in the report you linked.

You used that "point" to impeach the ENTIRE report that by your own further admission YOU HAD FAILED TO READ.
So, let's deal with your tacit admission that you were wrong. Does that mena that you ACCEPT the report?
That's infinitely more than anything you do, you simply ignore any facts posted and toss out ad hominem comments since you can't refute those facts.
You've yet to present any facts.

war posted on 2009-03-24 10:49:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1163. To: TooConservative (#1161)
a lot of the RP folk hung out at RonPaulForums and kind of griefed a bunch of forums, trying to 'bomb' them with RP material.

There was very little posted on LP in the way of legitimate Ron Paul articles, it was largely ANTI Ron Paul material that was being splattered all over LP, and there were only a handful of individuals doing so, yet THEY weren't banned, it was the sincere posters who were banned instead.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 10:52:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1164. To: war (#1162)
You used that "point" to impeach the ENTIRE report that by your own further admission YOU HAD FAILED TO READ
You have failed to answer any question I've asked you, yet you try to posture yourself as morally just and that I somehow have committed some morally unjust deed. I WORK FOR A LIVING ASSHOLE, and I don't have time to spend on an idiot who refuses to get past the most basic facts.
I've posted a multitude of items that you CAN NOT refute, and you've largely ignored those yet dance all around the fact I misread ONE FUCKING sentence.
Eat shit war, go harrass people over at FR or something. Oh that's right, you AGREE with most of them there, so you'd fit right in...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 10:56:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1165. To: FormerLurker (#1154)
That explosives were never even CONSIDERED by the government indicates they have something to hide, as terrorists are no strangers to explosives and had in fact tried to plant explosives in the WTC back in 1993. Oddly, the person who planted that explosive was an FBI informant.

This is silly. A jetplane crashed into the building, and the building fractured at the point of impact. Of course explosives where never seriously considered. Its like considering poisoning for the cause of death of JFK. There is no evidence to suggest explosives. The only evidence you even attempt to give is, its impossible the way the government claims therefore its explosives.

As far as your question concerning how it was done, and your theory of planting explosives in every floor, it would only need to be done every 10 floors, but every floor isn't impossible either.

Why are there no explosions seen every tenth floor? Who planted these explosives and when? Those buildings were some of the most used in the world. And again where is your evidence for this?

And since the core disappeared where it should have remained standing, it's not impossible for some classified weapon to have vaporized it, AND for high explosives planted in critical areas to cause the rest of the structure to collapse as it did.

And what they knew exactly where the point of impact would be? How silly. The core fell because it heated to the point where the steels tensile strength was lowered below the pressure applied to it.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-24 11:00:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1166. To: FormerLurker (#1164)
Eat shit war, go harrass people over at FR or something.

Most excellent suggestions.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 11:00:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1167. To: Rhino369 (#1165)
And what they knew exactly where the point of impact would be? How silly. The core fell because it heated to the point where the steels tensile strength was lowered below the pressure applied to it.

LOL! Magickal Jet Fuel™. One time and one time only caused three skyscrapers to fall. Never before or since 9/11. Amazing.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 11:03:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1168. To: FormerLurker, TooConservative (#1163)
There was very little posted on LP in the way of legitimate Ron Paul articles, it was largely ANTI Ron Paul material that was being splattered all over LP, and there were only a handful of individuals doing so, yet THEY weren't banned, it was the sincere posters who were banned instead.

Not that I was asked, but I would have to disagree with that statement. By the time Goldi began banning people, the forum had turned into a Ron Paul tit-for- tat forum, with the anti-Paul people posting anti-Paul threads and the pro-Paul people posting pro-Paul threads. It became all-Ron, all the time. I will agree that it was instigated by the big government loving anti-Paulies like padlock, domer, yukon, Aunt Bee, etc.
Of course Goldi once again showed her true big government loving colors by banning pro-Paul articles and pro-Paul people while allowing anti-Paul articles and encouraging anti-Paul people. Hell, she even jumped on the anti-Paul bandwagon and participated on the anti-Paul threads.
She proved that all of her small government rhetoric was pure bullshit. Hell she even had a couple of meltdowns when McCain lost the election and threatened to ban people who didn't vote for McCain.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-24 11:08:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1169. To: Rhino369 (#1165)
This is silly. A jetplane crashed into the building, and the building fractured at the point of impact.

It wasn't "fractured", it was pierced. The buildings were designed to withstand impacts by jet airliners.
Why are there no explosions seen every tenth floor? Who planted these explosives and when? Those buildings were some of the most used in the world. And again where is your evidence for this?
You tossed out a possible scenario, and so did I. We aren't FBI agents with the power to interrogate people nor do we have access to their data banks, so neither you nor I can possibly find out exactly "who, or when". However, there were MANY opportunities for such explosives to be placed, especially the weekend prior to the attacks where the buildings were powered down for "upgrades". There was maintenance performed on the elevator shafts the weeks and months before the attacks.
Additionally, there ARE more than a few videos which show material being ejected from floors BELOW the collapse, and there ARE bright flashes seen in windows in lower floors below the collapse as well.
And what they knew exactly where the point of impact would be? How silly. The core fell because it heated to the point where the steels tensile strength was lowered below the pressure applied to it.
If the planes were remote controlled they'd know. If the building was completely rigged it wouldn't matter. And steel takes more than a fraction of a second to heat to a point it fails. The lower 100 floors were undamaged and were at their maximum strength.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 11:09:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1170. To: Hayek Fan (#1168)
Not that I was asked, but I would have to disagree with that statement. By the time Goldi began banning people, the forum had turned into a Ron Paul tit-for- tat forum, with the anti-Paul people posting anti-Paul threads and the pro-Paul people posting pro-Paul threads.

The ratio between valid Ron Paul articles and the crap from blogs which anti- Paul folks would post was substantial. I was speaking in relative terms. In fact, many of the "what Paul ate for lunch" articles WERE posted by the likes of padlock and such.
I agree with the rest of what you said though.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 11:12:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1171. To: James Deffenbach (#1167)
LOL! Magickal Jet Fuel™. One time and one time only caused three skyscrapers to fall. Never before or since 9/11. Amazing.

Listen this shit is extremely easy to test. How hot can jet fuel accelerated fire get? At this temperature what is the fracture stress level of the steel used in the building? If you know the temperature, and the tensile strength, you can calculate what loan causes failure.
This is how normal scientists and engineers would test the claims. Instead you guys create bullshit youtube videos trying to only use netwons third law to analyze and extremely complicated event.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-24 11:30:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1172. To: FormerLurker (#1169)

It wasn't "fractured", it was pierced. The buildings were designed to withstand impacts by jet airliners.

The building were designed to withstand smaller jet impacts. And it did survive the impact. It was the high temperature fire that took the towers down.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-24 11:36:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1173. To: FormerLurker, TooConservative, all (#1151)
She [Goldi-Lox] used a BS excuse where I had told liberator to be careful what he was saying, as he had called for the assassination of the UN Secretary General. She claimed that I was threatening to turn him in where I hadn't, as was obvious to anyone who was reading that thread.

Well - I didn't call for your expulsion in the first place despite your sloppiness, but let's all go back (for those who actually care) and re-play the tape (your quotes are italicized) and let whomever decide exactly what transpired. In fact here is the entire thread:
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=151958&Disp=All&#C108
23. To: FormerLurker (#15)
Why don't you just to New York and blow up the UN?
Do WHAT?
This??? (picture unavailable)
Gee, I'd be...(sob, sniffle) sooo saddening.
Afterall, your man Kofi and the rest of the UN's crime syndicate have been so effective is maintaining world peace...
(Sigh) What WOULD we do without them?
liberator posted on 2006-07-27 03:43:24 ET (1 image) Reply Trace
24. To: liberator (#23)
Did you help destroy the WTC towers as well?
FormerLurker posted on 2006-07-27 03:44:07 ET Reply Trace
25. To: FormerLurker (#16)
Hmmm. Secret Service might be interested in talking with you. Don't be surprised when then come visit...
Don't you wish, NWO troll.
liberator posted on 2006-07-27 03:44:22 ET Reply Trace

Liberator posted on 2009-03-24 11:36:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1174. To: Rhino369 (#1171)
Listen this shit is extremely easy to test. How hot can jet fuel accelerated fire get? At this temperature what is the fracture stress level of the steel used in the building? If you know the temperature, and the tensile strength, you can calculate what loan causes failure.
This is how normal scientists and engineers would test the claims. Instead you guys create bullshit youtube videos trying to only use netwons third law to analyze and extremely complicated event.

I have never created any youtube videos. If I could find out the formula for that Magickal Jet Fuel™ I would probably be tempted to make one. But then, knowing how powerful it is I doubt I would because I wouldn't want to be the cause of more skyscrapers falling.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 11:40:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1175. To: Rhino369 (#1172)
The building were designed to withstand smaller jet impacts. And it did survive the impact. It was the high temperature fire that took the towers down.

LOL! The Magickal Jet Fuel™. I knew you would get back to that. Aren't you glad they only made one batch of it? Your argument about how they were designed to withstand the impact of "smaller jets" is bs. They were designed to withstand the impacts of the biggest jets in commercial use at the time they were built.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 11:43:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1176. To: F16Fighter (#1173)
Do WHAT?
This??? (picture unavailable)
Gee, I'd be...(sob, sniffle) sooo saddening.
Afterall, your man Kofi and the rest of the UN's crime syndicate have been so effective is maintaining world peace...
(Sigh) What WOULD we do without them?
liberator posted on 2006-07-27 03:43:24 ET (1 image) Reply Trace

Well that missing picture certainly said a lot without words. Anyways, I wasn't blaming you, I was blaming Goldi as just using it as an excuse. I could go back and find the thread, but I do recall you had suggested the UN Secretary General be killed. In fact, wasn't your picture one of a plane crashing into the UN?
I think that's why I asked if you helped in the WTC attacks.
Anyways, it was a dumb thing for you to say (or suggest) since the forum IS monitored, just like any other forum is monitored. I thought you realized that afterwards when I spoke to you on LP, where Goldi had apparently felt bad about banning me and lifted the ban, just to reinstate it at Marguerite's request since I wouldn't back down and bend over for her boyfriend Byteshredder.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 11:50:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1177. To: Rhino369 (#1172)
The building were designed to withstand smaller jet impacts.

Wrong. The 707 has about the same weight and fuel capacity, and actually flies faster than the 767. The 767 was only carrying a bit less than half its fuel capacity BTW...
And it did survive the impact. It was the high temperature fire that took the towers down.
First off, the majority of the jet fuel burnt up in the first few minutes after impact, and most of it went up in the huge fireballs outside the buildings.
The fires were ordinary office fires, nothing magical about them.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 11:53:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1178. To: James Deffenbach (#1174)
So you don't understand the physics behind it but you just know its wrong? You have an irrational belief about 9-11.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-24 11:54:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1179. To: F16Fighter, TooConservative (#1173)
Oh and BTW liberator, our little spat over at LP started over you and others cheering the deaths of the UN observers, who besides being from allied countries such as Canada, could very well have been American (although they weren't in this particular instance). Remember, Reagan sent US Marines to Lebanon to keep the Isrealis from massacring women and children in refugee camps.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 11:56:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1180. To: F16Fighter (#1173)
Don't you wish, NWO troll.

I find that sort of ironic where I thought YOU were a NWO troll at the time.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 12:00:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1181. To: FormerLurker (#1176)
I could go back and find the thread, but I do recall you had suggested the UN Secretary General be killed... Anyways, it was a dumb thing for you to say (or suggest) since the forum IS monitored, just like any other forum is monitored.

Sure - everyone realizes forums are monitored; For the record, I suggested Kofi be "eliminated." That could be construed as "removed from his SG post," but I couldn't have cared less what happened to that corrupt, lying SOB.
As to what transpired afterwards, I wouldn't presume to know what or who an owner of any forum deems to be a liability since I (or you for that matter) aren't privy to whatever warnings are or aren't given. Sh*t happens - you know that.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-24 12:03:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1182. To: FormerLurker (#1177)
First off, the majority of the jet fuel burnt up in the first few minutes after impact

The heat would still be absorbed by the building.

The fires were ordinary office fires, nothing magical about them.

I hardly call an accelerated office fire ordinary.
Look if the answer is so simple, why would they use this method to attack the towers? You are saying its so impossible that you don't even have to be an expert to know so.
Why do you think the government would use a cover story so absurd? There are hundreds of thousands of people who are qualified, and knowledgeable to recognize this. How is the government keeping all of them silent, and more importantly why use such an easily discarded cover?
You seem to believe they came up with a needlessly complicated, absurd unbelievable plan, and only a bunch of conspiracy theorists are smart enough to see it?
This requires our government to be:
malicious enough to murder thousands
smart enough to flawlessly pull it off with witnesses
dumb enough to create a stupid
able to keep it secrete, except for you guys
Come on.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-24 12:04:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1183. To: FormerLurker (#1179)
Oh and BTW liberator, our little spat over at LP started over you and others cheering the deaths of the UN observers, who besides being from allied countries such as Canada, could very well have been American (although they weren't in this particular instance).

Yes, they COULD have been Americans...
I've never made it a secret; I consider the UN to be corrupt subversives and a proxy armed force of the NWO.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-24 12:07:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1184. To: FormerLurker (#1180)
I find that sort of ironic where I thought YOU were a NWO troll at the time.

LOL, that IS/WAS "irony."

Liberator posted on 2009-03-24 12:08:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1185. To: Rhino369 (#1182)
The heat would still be absorbed by the building.
Not if it burnt up OUTSIDE in the air. Besides, the fuel was spent in several minutes, the fires that raged inside were OFFICE fires that were ignited by the burning jet fuel.
They were nowhere hot enough to cause any structural failure within the time they burned prior to collapse, in fact, they were almost out towards the end.

Why do you think the government would use a cover story so absurd?
Because most people are stupid and they believe everything they're told, just as we witness to this day.
There are hundreds of thousands of people who are qualified, and knowledgeable to recognize this. How is the government keeping all of them silent, and more importantly why use such an easily discarded cover?
Many HAVE tried to come forward, only to be ignored or ridiculed.
Ever hear of these folks?
CREDIBLE CRITICS OF THE OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF 9/11
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 12:15:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1186. To: Rhino369 (#1182)
This requires our government to be: malicious enough to murder thousands

Not the ENTIRE government, just those in key positions who could facilitate such an event. There were more than likely OTHER governments involved as well.
There is a degree of evil which exists that you appear to be oblivious to.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 12:18:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1187. To: F16Fighter (#1183)
I consider the UN to be corrupt subversives and a proxy armed force of the NWO.

Most of the time, it is the US that bore the brunt of any UN action. Look at Korea for instance. I view the UN itself as a corrupt organization, but I don't cheer the deaths of soldiers of any nation who are simply doing their duty when their mission is just, such as protecting the lives of innocent people.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 12:22:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1188. To: Rhino369, FormerLurker (#1182)
You seem to believe they came up with a needlessly complicated, absurd unbelievable plan, and only a bunch of conspiracy theorists are smart enough to see it?
This requires our government to be: malicious enough to murder thousands smart enough to flawlessly pull it off with witnesses dumb enough to create a stupid able to keep it secrete, except for you guys... ...Come on.

No Rhino - YOU "come on."
You can't really be naive enough to believe the gubmint would NOT, nor does not sacrifice Americans' health and lives in exchange for mere money and power? As though the Kenyan sitting in the Oval Office isn't further evidence of A Fix?
9/11?? Exhibit "A" of absolute nonsensical baloney and contrived run-up to more BS - "Nation Building" in Iraq.
The most expensive "hit" in history? The one on Saddam.

But nope, you're right. They CARE about us; They reeeealy, REEEALLY care about us.
Bwaahaa!!Oh and btw - the days of the gubmint contriving "needlessly complicated, absurd unbelievable plans" is over. They now screw us out in the open and royally without such contrived wag-the-dog scripts; Witness the multi-trillion dollar thievery of the American people by the Congress and Presidents simply by referring to them as "crises."

Liberator posted on 2009-03-24 12:28:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1189. To: FormerLurker (#1187)
I don't cheer the deaths of soldiers of any nation who are simply doing their duty when their mission is just, such as protecting the lives of innocent people.

Whereas even you aren't totally comfortable with the UN, we disagree on both UN "missions" and the definition of "innocent people." They unnecessarily stuck their big nose in Bosnia as well and murdered innocent people, but wouldn't protect Christians in the Sudan were they are still being slaughtered every day?? the UN is nothing but a front for the NWO and FOS "peace-keeping" organization.
In that particular case of the Lebanese, we aren't going to agree on the dynamics; The Terrorists were hiding behind the skirts of their own people and the UN, while I deemed the UN complicit and/or running interference.
Individually I may feel bad for the many innocents, but running interference for terrorists (who received NO flack for their cowardice) is/was a dangerous proposition.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-24 12:39:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1190. To: FormerLurker, Rhino369 (#1186)
Not the ENTIRE government, just those in key positions who could facilitate such an event. There were more than likely OTHER governments involved as well.
There is a degree of evil which exists that you appear to be oblivious to.

I concur.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-24 12:40:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1191. To: F16Fighter (#1189)
Individually I may feel bad for the many innocents, but running interference for terrorists (who received NO flack for their cowardice) is/was a dangerous proposition.

Thing is, Israel wasn't restricting their attacks to what could be called terrorists, they were attacking ANY Lebanese that happened to be in their way.
Hell, they were bombing Beirut as if they had declared war against Lebanon. The reasons given for the invasion were sketchy at best.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 12:48:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1192. To: FormerLurker (#1185)

Because most people are stupid and they believe everything they're told, just as we witness to this day.

It doesn't take most people. It takes one well respected civil engineer to blow it wide open.

Many HAVE tried to come forward, only to be ignored or ridiculed.

Ever hear of these folks?

They are ridiculed for good reason, they aren't bringing evidence.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-24 13:05:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1193. To: F16Fighter (#1188)
I don't believe the government cares for us, but I also don't believe it would risk murdering thousands of Americans.
I do believe it will exploit the murder of thousands of Americans. That much is clear.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-24 13:08:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1194. To: Rhino369 (#1192)
They are ridiculed for good reason, they aren't bringing evidence.

Have you even LOOKED at the list of people on that site? They are all HIGHLY respected individuals, and you can't bring evidence if it's been destroyed or classified.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 13:15:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1195. To: Rhino369 (#1193)
I don't believe the government cares for us, but I also don't believe it would risk murdering thousands of Americans.

There have been more US troops killed in Iraq than the number of Americans killed in the 9/11 attacks. There have been MANY times that who were injured.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 13:16:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1196. To: Rhino369 (#1192)
It doesn't take most people. It takes one well respected civil engineer to blow it wide open.

That one respected engineer would be ignored by the media, thus you would never hear anything about it, or would ridicule him if someone were to post an article about it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 13:18:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1197. To: FormerLurker, palo verde, sneakypete (#1163)
There was very little posted on LP in the way of legitimate Ron Paul articles, it was largely ANTI Ron Paul material that was being splattered all over LP, and there were only a handful of individuals doing so, yet THEY weren't banned, it was the sincere posters who were banned instead.

I watched it closely and didn't have that impression. At that time, I was still at FR, being pro-Ron until I got banned and followed the Yellow Brick Road to Goldi's place.
There was a period at LP and many other sites when the RPF kids just absolutely bombed the sidebar with RP articles. You'd see half a dozen in a row in Breaking News. No site should put up with that unless that is what the forum owner wants the site to be. Forum-jacking is not really an exercise in free speech.
Then Goldi kicked them off and tried to forbid RP articles, in part because she was getting lots of complaints from her established posters who had been there for years, among whom were a some neocon troll types.
For established posters who didn't troll the sidebars posting RP articles 24/7, we could post RP threads in reasonable number and Goldi didn't care. We'd still take flack from the neocon elements, mostly those who claim to be ex-military or from posters with heavy pro-Israel tendencies.
But you did have a constant stream of anti-RP stuff, from blog sites created just to libel Ron Paul, pretty much one of these every day. This continued long after RP's campaign ended, seeming to attempt to smother any ongoing RP movement like Campaign For Liberty in its crib. This was very deliberate, suspected by many to be an Eric Dondero operation, probably paid a hundred bucks a week by some RNC weenie to do it from his mom's basement. Why those obvious Paul-hater threads were tolerated is beyond me. Of course, the usual neocon elements jumped on every one of them to drive their post counts up. So it wasn't exactly consistent to allow Paul-hater spam threads after Goldi dumped most of the Paul-lover spam threads. OTOH, Goldi obviously did not spend that much time moderating her forum and she is not a web geek so some of this stuff that would get flushed rapidly from a site like FR where they have more technical sophistication and time to detect and block trolling isn't something Goldi could be expected to do as a sole moderator of limited technical means and expertise. I assume she does try to have a real life along with a real job.
If you wanted to see real hypocrisy and bizarre operations of a forum against RP and his supporters, FR absolutely took the prize. They'd find the most libelous crap they could, bump it to the top of Breaking News and glue it there for a week manually in code just to libel him. Lots of longtime freepers, most of them not RP supporters, were just kind of in jaw-dropped amazement when they saw this kind of venom. That was only one example of their little tricks, the operation of the neocon harpy element against RP supporters, etc. And we RP folk were determined to proceed. It was all quite strange to see FR, the officially designated message forum for the Republican Liberty Caucus (rlc.org) actually persecuting Ron Paul, the candidate it was founded to support and to help elect others like him to public office. Those kids over at RPF used to watch this stuff and just go nuts but of course they were all locked out of FR since a single pro-RP post at FR by a newbie would draw an immediate ban.
FR broke new ground in forum dishonesty and character assassination on RP's candidacy. They also really mistreated the Romney folk though I can grasp not trusting the Mittster but to allow any thread about him to turn into a Mormon-bash? FR had a religion forum for that but all the rules against Mormon-bashing were suspended apparently because JimRob hated him so much. The same JimRob that was an Alan Keyes true believer back when and a big Fred supporter (they actually registered FredRepublic.com and pointed it at FR), well, given JimRob's background as a registered Dim, you do have to wonder "Pied Piper" when you observe some of this crap.
At any rate, I have no idea of Goldi's exact motives and thinking on all of these things. It is a little too easy to sit out here with our little favorite causes or hated causes and judge everything a mod or forum owner does through that prism and demand that the mods dedicate their lives to delivering some kind of perfect consistency by a standard we probably wouldn't be able to apply ourselves to our buddies' satisfaction. The trolls and disruptor types are quite clever and very persistent.
A major part of the problems you see with all this stuff is the lack of a persistent and verifiable online ID system, a relatively unhackable one with proper encrypted security certificates. These forums would be far easier to control if that were the case. It would help eliminate trolls and poseurs and cheap tricks to hold multiple IDs on the same forum, etc. OTOH, you might think twice about joining these forums or posting on them if you knew that your real identity was known and could be traced, by the forum owner or by various government entities.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 13:21:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1198. To: Rhino369 (#1152)
Have you seen 911 Mysteries: Demolitions?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=- 8172271955308136871

christine posted on 2009-03-24 13:21:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1199. To: F16Fighter (#1173)
old LP post: Hmmm. Secret Service might be interested in talking with you. Don't be surprised when then come visit...

You'll recall credible reports in the old days back at FR where several people did get such visits. Generally, it was for direct threats against Xlinton and those were the kinds of threats that were pretty blatant.
I always avoid those who make such blatant threats. Even if they are sober (often not) and capable (rarely), their attempts to organize or take any action would immediately be infiltrated and they have already opened themselves to the usual FBI blackmailing and would be easily turned to work as informants or provocateurs or leader elements that would introduce actual agents into the organization. It's not as though the operations and methods of federal agents in this regard are unknown (civil rights organizations, radicals like Black Panthers, the Klan, the Birchers, the Commies, the labor unions, Mafia, etc.).
Of course, merely knowing that someone from a forum you're on has been visited by officials has quite a chilling effect on speech and association, perhaps the intended result. Certainly, not every person making wild remarks received a visit but you noticed quite a decline in such threats once posters grasped that they might hear the knock of the S.S. on their door.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 13:31:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1200. To: FormerLurker (#1164)
I've posted a multitude of items that you CAN NOT refute

Christine deleted those posts because the remaining record here PROVES that you have been rebutted on each and everyone of your "items".

war posted on 2009-03-24 13:33:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1201. To: christine (#1198)
Christine...the WTC was not steel framed. What "gave way" were the floor suspension trusses between the two support structures. Any theory that holds at its core that the WTC was steel framed is fatally flawed from the onset.

war posted on 2009-03-24 13:38:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1202. To: TooConservative, Fred Mertz (#1199)
Of course, merely knowing that someone from a forum you're on has been visited by officials has quite a chilling effect on speech and association, perhaps the intended result.

IIRC, Fred was paid a visit over some nonsense that went nowhere. The further along this ball of socialism rolls down hill the more likely the asshats will try and silence people. Pure Nazi scare tactics, but they will chill some no doubt.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-24 13:40:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1203. To: christine (#1198)
Barry Jennings stepped forward, shared the truth and now he's dead.
And these fucking 'tards can't even accept the fact their government is illegal and murderous.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 13:48:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1204. To: Jethro Tull (#1202)
IIRC, Fred was paid a visit over some nonsense that went nowhere.

My recollection was someone made remarks about a high-powered rifle and being ready for a visit by Xlinton to his area. They got a visit from the S.S. the day of or the day before Xlinton got there. They reported it on FR.
People who say or write such things get a S.S. dossier and are routinely watched by the S.S. when the president is visiting within a few hundred miles of their location.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 14:11:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1205. To: F16Fighter (#1173)
You're actually liberator? Like I'm a Jew?
4um is fun little spot.
I've seen you online for years at various forums. I thought you were consistent in your handle. I also saw this liberator, never thought the two of you were the same person. No telltale speech patterns, you're also more polite to people when you're arguing your points in a heated discussion.
Of course, if I am a Real Life Secret Jew, then maybe I'm just providing cover for you with this post. LOL.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 14:17:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1206. To: Rhino369 (#1178)
So you don't understand the physics behind it but you just know its wrong? You have an irrational belief about 9-11.

Well, if it is "irrational" not to believe the government's stupid, outlandish "conspiracy theory" I guess I would have to say I am guilty of that.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 14:21:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1207. To: FormerLurker (#1185)
Because most people are stupid and they believe everything they're told, just as we witness to this day.

Exactly. Some folks will believe anything so long as "de gubmint" told 'em.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 14:31:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1208. To: F16Fighter (#1189)
Whereas even you aren't totally comfortable with the UN, we disagree on both UN "missions" and the definition of "innocent people." They unnecessarily stuck their big nose in Bosnia as well and murdered innocent people, but wouldn't protect Christians in the Sudan were they are still being slaughtered every day?? the UN is nothing but a front for the NWO and FOS "peace-keeping" organization.

I hate the UN with a burning passion and have never made a secret of it on any board I have ever posted on. I wouldn't care if it blew up and broke up into so many parts that the largest one would fit comfortably in a matchbox--a SMALL matchbox.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 14:34:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1209. To: Rhino369 (#1193)
I also don't believe it would risk murdering thousands of Americans.

D#mn! Never heard of Vietnam?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 14:35:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1210. To: FormerLurker, sneakypete, farmfriend, TooConservative, Cynicom (#1143)
She banned anyone who "was recruiting for another forum", farmfriend mentioned 4um, and was banned shortly afterwards.

Wow, thanks. You are correct, she was doing a purge at the time.
For what it's worth, I believe the real reason I was banned was my association at the time with Brer Rabbit. He was banned a day or two before I was.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 14:36:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1211. To: James Deffenbach (#1206)
What I know for sure is enough to figger out the rest. Of course, I don't worship big government and I'm not a world socialist anti-christ lover either. ;-)
1) The intercept mission was corrupted at precisely the most in-opportune time - but never mind the fact they were off training to stop..wait for it..PLANES FLYING INTO BUIDINGS !
2) There is eyewitness confirmation that explosives were present and used simultaneous with the planes attacking - including ONE whose eyewitness testimony INSIDE WTC 7 was SO damaging that he's now dead. (try to spin this, please)
3) A half dozen or MORE foreign government officials have gone on record stating they KNEW the attack was coming and in turn our goobermint KNEW it was coming.
4) Osama bin Laden has been used as a CIA / ameriKan asset for almost 3 decades !
5) The massacre was clearly used to complete the NWO through UNdeclared wars based on the 911 lie !
6) The 911 Commission completely whitewashed numerous damning facts which incriminated elected members of the federal government, the armed forces and our intelligence community !
I don't even have to go further - like the targets inside the buildings themselves that were 'purged' from any further scrutiny, Ted Olson lying point blank about his wife Barbara and an inflight phone call, bush-cheney-bin laden connections, etc.
There are so many dots to connect that only a damned liar or fool would deny the truth of 911.
NWO false flag event

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 14:41:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1212. To: James Deffenbach (#1208)
I hate the UN with a burning passion and have never made a secret of it on any board I have ever posted on. I wouldn't care if it blew up and broke up into so many parts that the largest one would fit comfortably in a matchbox--a SMALL matchbox.

bottom of a thimble

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 14:41:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1213. To: James Deffenbach (#1207)
Exactly. Some folks will believe anything so long as "de gubmint" told 'em.

Their delusion is very strong.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 14:42:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1214. To: TooConservative, FormerLurker, christine (#1147)
OTOH, I do grasp that disruptors will sometimes try to ruin another forum or poach posters from another forum. So if I were a mod or forum owner and saw that happening, I would warn them and then ban them.

But that is not what I was doing and even said so on the forum. Remember she claimed I made an announcement I never made.
The reality was that I was posting on at least 5 forums at the time including LF. I even had two of my own! Still do. I always talked about other forums I was posting on.
I had caught ByteShredder plagerizing my friends work. He started posting death threats to me. Though I didn't take them serious something needed to be done about it. I had complained to Goldi in email. She said on the forum she was having email problems and hadn't seen the email. I told her that I would give her time to deal with it. Mean while I would post elsewhere.
The purging of memebers at LP, mind you I signed up within the first two months it was up, was resulting in a lot of people moving over here. Many I considered friends. I signed up here and started posting. I had told someone on LP, I don't remember who, that I was posting here until Goldi had time to deal with my complaint. This is what she twisted into an announcement I was leaving. The posts are archived on this forum somewhere. Yukon twisted one of my posts into recruiting for 4um. It was removed and I was banned.
Byteshredder still posts at LP with immunity.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 14:49:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1215. To: Rotara (#1211)
There are so many dots to connect that only a damned liar or fool would deny the truth of 911.

Now that is a fine summation.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 14:58:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1216. To: Rotara (#1212)
bottom of a thimble

A Thumbelina (sp?) thimble.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 14:59:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1217. To: Rotara (#1213)
Their delusion is very strong.

And their alleged minds very weak.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-24 15:00:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1218. To: farmfriend (#1214)
I had caught ByteShredder plagerizing my friends work. He started posting death threats to me.

That should be a permanent auto-ban on any forum, no matter who posts it, no matter how drunk they are. Death threats aren't free speech, they're speech intended to stop free speech.

The purging of memebers at LP, mind you I signed up within the first two months it was up, was resulting in a lot of people moving over here. Many I considered friends. I signed up here and started posting. I had told someone on LP, I don't remember who, that I was posting here until Goldi had time to deal with my complaint. This is what she twisted into an announcement I was leaving. The posts are archived on this forum somewhere. Yukon twisted one of my posts into recruiting for 4um. It was removed and I was banned.

Bans can be arbitrary and often are.

Byteshredder still posts at LP with immunity.

I've hardly noticed him, maybe we don't have the same interests.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 15:14:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1219. To: FormerLurker, farmfriend, Brian S (#1143)
FWIW< I don't believe that farmfriend was banned unless she did so via email.
I do know that Brian S was banned.

war posted on 2009-03-24 15:39:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1220. To: FormerLurker (#1150)
The steel columns are a mystery as they should have remained standing

What steel columns?

war posted on 2009-03-24 15:41:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1221. To: war, FormerLurker, Brian S (#1219)
FWIW< I don't believe that farmfriend was banned unless she did so via email.

So now you as well as sneakypete are calling me a liar?
Goldi herself said I was banned on the open forum!
FF was banned for trolling for members for another forum after announcing she was leaving to go there. (She likely only was another day or so here. Damage control.)
As I said before, I made no such announcement.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 15:56:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1222. To: war (#1220)
What steel columns?

Those which were part of the steel core.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 16:15:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1223. To: farmfriend (#1221)
I was banned by the raving bagel for indirectly referencing Ron Paul when she was on one of her little crying jags. I consider it a badge-of-honor to be banned from El-Pee for choosing Ron Paul over McStain.
_________________________________________________________________________
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
X-15 posted on 2009-03-24 16:16:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1224. To: farmfriend (#1221)
As I said before, I made no such announcement.

Stupid question: Did you ever try to log back in?
The last exchange over there between you and Goldi was her pulling a comment of yours.
And, trust me, I was not calling you a liar...just seeking clarification based upon my own. I apologize if you believed that was my intent.

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:18:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1225. To: FormerLurker (#1222)
Those which were part of the steel core.

What makes you believ that they should have been left standing? You do know that they were sectional? You do know that they were tapered?

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:19:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1226. To: war (#1200)
Christine deleted those posts because the remaining record here PROVES that you have been rebutted on each and everyone of your "items".

You're a liar war, and I think most rational people can see that.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 16:19:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1227. To: FormerLurker (#1226)
You're a liar war, and I think most rational people can see that.

Which "items" do you believe have not been rebutted?

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:23:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1228. To: X-15 (#1223)
I was banned by the raving bagel for indirectly referencing Ron Paul

Didn't you advocate spamming Ron Paul articles onto the forum?

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:26:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1229. To: war (#1225)
What makes you believ that they should have been left standing?

For one, it is highly unlikely the supporting bolts and rods holding the trusses onto the core would have been strong enough to rip the core apart. If the floors pancaked then the floors should have slid over the core. However, there wasn't much left to slide since the upper floors pulverized as they collapsed, so there was not enough energy to cause a collapse of the lower floors in the first place.
Thus, not only should the core have remained standing, but the 100 or so UNDAMAGED floors of both towers should have survived the collapse of the upper structure of both buildings, except for perhaps the top section of the remaining undamaged structures.
And sure, the top was tapered, BUT strong enough to hold most of the weight of the WTC structure at that level. In fact, it was highly improbable for a total collapse even at the damaged section to occur at all.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 16:28:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1230. To: war (#1224)
Stupid question: Did you ever try to log back in?

Yes I tried to log back in. It was days later that she made the post about why she banned me. And it wasn't an exchange between Goldi and I about pulling the comment. She pulled it when she banned me. I had an exchange with Yukon about the nature of the comment.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 16:33:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1231. To: FormerLurker (#1229)
For one, it is highly unlikely the supporting bolts and rods holding the trusses onto the core would have been strong enough to rip the core apart.

You are basing this upon what? The inane belief that the only force being exerted was DOWNWARD? What was one of the functions of the outer support structure? LATERAL stability. When LATERAL support fails...what happens?

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:36:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1232. To: war (#1227)
Which "items" do you believe have not been rebutted?

Where's the flight manifests? I don't mean newspaper graphics, I mean a link to the actual flight manifests.
You haven't been able to show how there could possibly be enough energy to break the lower floors since much of the energy was expended by the pulverization process.
You haven't shown any proof that the hijackers actually boarded the aircraft.
I haven't had the time to dig through the "report" you linked, but I doubt it can honestly explain how two 110 story structures can collapse in 8-18 seconds, where the lower 100 floors were undamaged prior to the initial collapse of the top sections of each tower.
You haven't been able to explain the fact that war games taking place during the attacks simulated the very attacks themselves.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 16:36:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1233. To: war (#1231)
LATERAL stability. When LATERAL support fails...what happens?

Nothing unless there are high winds or a hurricane taking place. The towers didn't start swaying back and forth. Is that what you trying to say, the collapse was caused by SWAYING?
Besides, only a relatively tiny part of the exterior columns were damaged.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 16:38:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1234. To: X-15, war (#1223)
I was banned by the raving bagel for indirectly referencing Ron Paul when she was on one of her little crying jags. I consider it a badge-of-honor to be banned from El-Pee for choosing Ron Paul over McStain.

I was not a Ron Paul supporter at the time. Well let me clarify. I didn't know much about Ron Paul then and was advocating for a different candidate, no not McCain. The more I learned about Ron Paul, the more I liked him.
I do believe that my banning had more to do with my association with Brer Rabbit than anything else.
War - I think that is what you are remembering. You were right, Goldi had pulled one of my posts. It was a message to someone from Brer. She didn't want it up because she had banned him.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 16:39:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1235. To: farmfriend (#1230)
Okay...apparently Goldi did several stealth bannings which she made a good job of doing - if this email I just got is correct, and I have no doubt but to believe it, then she really went after Paul supporters over a number of months beginning in late '07. I was wholly unaware of this; otherwise, I would have protested.
Apology accepted?

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:40:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1236. To: FormerLurker (#1233)
Nothing

You're out of your mind...what happens when you try to stack too much of something on top of each other?

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:42:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1237. To: war (#1228)
I honestly don't remember. But, I was a fervent Ron Paul supporter. My last few posts were on the thread titled "Time for disobedience on LP: He Who Must Not Be Named". I and the thread were deleted after numerous posts and virtual shouting/posturing/bravado ;-)
_________________________________________________________________________
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
X-15 posted on 2009-03-24 16:42:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1238. To: war (#1235)
Apology accepted?

OH yes. No harm done.
FWIW, I was not a Paul supporter at the time. She was purging some of the anti Jewish posters as well. I'm hardly anti Jewish since I married into a Jewish family but it was my association with one that did it.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 16:43:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1239. To: war (#1220)
What steel columns?

You just had to ask, didn't you? LOL.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-24 16:44:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1240. To: war (#1235)
then she really went after Paul supporters over a number of months beginning in late '07.

I was banned in the beginning of June 07.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 16:45:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1241. To: farmfriend (#1234)
War - I think that is what you are remembering. You were right, Goldi had pulled one of my posts. It was a message to someone from Brer. She didn't want it up because she had banned him.

I do remember seeing that and I just searched your name over there..your last post called for "Civil disobedience". Cracked me up...
Anyway, I'm not all that comfoprtable talking about another forum here. I have nothing against Goldi and I enjoyed 99.44% of my time there...although, the stealth bannings trouble me. But it is also a symptom of why I left as a regular poster: Selevctive Enforcement.

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:46:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1242. To: farmfriend (#1238)
OH yes. No harm done.

Okay kewel...
AS for your other...as I mentioned, I know that she made Brian S gone for that reason.

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:49:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1243. To: TooConservative (#1239)
[wink]

war posted on 2009-03-24 16:50:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1244. To: war (#1156)
In other words, despite the voluminous evidence that you have been shown that your beliefs have no basis in fact, you cling to them like a baby to a blankey...
You've done a lot of bloviating, posturing, and name calling, but posted nothing in the way of real evidence.
The core was cement...
You are wrong. It was a steel column core reinforced with concrete. I already posted the image of the actual core under contruction for you, so you are flat out lying.
Here's a few more for you...

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 16:59:17 ET (4 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1245. To: war (#1236)
You're out of your mind...what happens when you try to stack too much of something on top of each other?

If you stack cans on top of each other, nothing happens unless you push them over. Are you retarded?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 17:00:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1246. To: James Deffenbach (#1216)
A Thumbelina (sp?) thimble.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 17:01:24 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1247. To: James Deffenbach (#1217)
And their alleged minds very weak.

ehehe

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 17:01:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1248. To: war (#1241)
I have nothing against Goldi and I enjoyed 99.44% of my time there...

Certainly not surprised to hear that.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 17:02:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1249. To: X-15 (#1223)
I was banned by the raving bagel for indirectly referencing Ron Paul when she was on one of her little crying jags.

LOL
bitch

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 17:02:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1250. To: X-15, pinguinite (#1237)
Neil McIver took a stand for Ron Paul there I believe. Then he drank the Obamessiah Kool Aid shortly thereafter iirc. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 17:04:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1251. To: war (#1236) (Edited)
what happens when you try to stack too much of something on top of each other?

Oh and BTW, the WTC towers were not just a bunch of stacked cans, they were rigid structures. There would have virtually no loss of lateral strength anyways due to the minimal damage to the exterior columns, yet it wouldn't have mattered if there WAS a total loss of lateral strength (which would be impossible due to the construction of the buildings themselves).
There were no hurricane force winds that day, and even if there had been, there was no overall loss of lateral strength as the purpose of the exterior walls was to DISTRIBUTE the lateral load across the entire building, and a missing section of column would not affect that.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 17:15:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1252. To: FormerLurker (#1251)
Oh and BTW, the WTC towers were not just a bunch of stacked cans, they were rigid structures.

Not when the links between the two support structures failed...

war posted on 2009-03-24 17:21:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1253. To: 911 Official Fairy Tale Believers (#1250)
I am sorry. You guys are right. It makes perfect sense that 3 concrete and steel buildings specifically designed to resist the impact of jet airliners came down after only 2 of them were hit by planes. My skepticism is really childish there.
And I am really silly for even questioning the convenient little fairy tale that they had ready to feed everyone, immediately after the event after having done absolutely no investigation.
And I am really nitpicking when I point out that the investigation wasn't even started until 8 months after the incident when all the evidence had been conveneniently destroyed. And during that investigation (the 9/11 Commission) not one firefighter, police officer or security personnell who was actually there was interviewed.
Oh yes, I am completely paranoid for even suggesting that the elite could possibly have envisioned such an operation, much less carry it out. Even though Project for a New American Centery published a document clearly outlining exactly what they were planning on doing and explained the need for a catalysing event such as a new pearl harbor to get the people to go along with it.
I really should wake up and realize that Muslim terrorists are the ones to blame here, and invading Afghanistan and Iraq was the only logical reaction to this event. I mean how else can we secure our safety and freedom?
Dropping bombs on innocent people is really the only way we can ensure the safety of the homeland.

~ David

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 17:25:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1254. To: ALL (#1253)
We have the corporate media if the fancy takes us to be spoon-fed absurdities - your parroting their blatant propaganda is tiresome and in no way reflects you in a positive light.
"I'm curious, what are firefighters and police, who either died in the collapse or never made it into the building, going to be able to tell you?"
How is it your curiosity doesn't encompass simply checking something before you unsuccessfully attempt to convince us there is a link between you opening your mouth and any brain activity whatsoever?
Let me assist you with your intellectual laziness, here is what they DID say:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html
[A rich vein of city records from Sept. 11, including more than 12,000 pages of oral histories rendered in the voices of 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians, were made public on Aug. 12, 2005. The New York Times has published all of them after having to go to court with the victim's families to have them released....]
Should you feel the desire at some point to actually deal with nasty little details such as facts, then by all means please read the following essay which is the absolute best challenge to the official version available:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=1846
Before you actually bother responding with empty rhetoric please consider that you are dealing with someone who has actually downloaded and read (more than once) both the 9/11 commission report and the NIST Final Report and found them lacking, which is something the proponents of the official version seem to not have bothered with.
Why bother with both sides of the story when you can simply repeat what Fox News or CNN have to say, and immediately blend in with millions of other idiots...
There is comfort in numbers obviously.
And please stop with the "nasty Muslims who hate us because they hate our freedoms" foolishness.

~ Darran

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-24 17:37:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1255. To: war (#1252) (Edited)
Not when the links between the two support structures failed...

Huh? There was a relative pinhole in the exterior wall, and the inner steel core was ALSO still there.
There are also apparently some huge inaccuracies concerning the makeup of the floors themselves, where rather than flimsy trusses it appears that there were steel girders bridging the gap between the core and the outer walls.
I need to read up on that before I post the actual article, but your post makes zero sense, there was no horizontal failure or movement, otherwise the top of the tower WOULD have toppled. As I posted on another thread, the top of one tower did in fact start to lean, but that was due to a loss of integrity in one corner of the supporting structure below it, it didn't begin to sway or lean as you are apparently trying to concoct. If it HAD begun to sway or lean due to horizontal forces, and there was a loss of horizontal integrity as you are trying to claim, it would have fallen over, not straight down.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 17:39:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1256. To: war (#1241)
Anyway, I'm not all that comfoprtable talking about another forum here.

LOL That was actually the only rule I had on my forum. No bad mouthing other forums. Leave it at the door. What can I say, CP left a bad taste. Even now you don't find me doing a bunch of bad mouthing. All I did here was relay what happened.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 17:51:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1257. To: farmfriend (#1133)
There isn't and never has been. (people banned at LP for doing nothing more than posting here)
Are you calling me a liar?
No,I was saying you were mistaken. I have posted at both places off and on for years,and have any number of other people. You are the only one I have ever heard of making a claim that they were banned for doing this.
I saved Goldi's post!
FF was banned for trolling for members for another forum after announcing she was leaving to go there. (She likely only was another day or so here. Damage control.)
Then you weren't banned for doing nothing more than posting at both sites.
I made no such announcement!!! Nor was I "trolling for members!"
Goldi thinks you did.
Here is the banning post from FR just for good measure.
And what does a post a FR have to do with being banned at LP? Seems to me you have a disconnect in your logic module.
And fuck you for insinuating I was lying!
And fuck you for leaping to wrong conclusions. Or do you somehow think I am so shy I won't outright accuse somebody of lying if I think they are lying?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 18:51:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1258. To: FormerLurker, farmfriend (#1143)
At the time, Goldi was having a bad hair day apparently and had banned several old time posters for daring to speak about Ron Paul. She banned anyone who "was recruiting for another forum", farmfriend mentioned 4um, and was banned shortly afterwards.

Thanks for clearing that up. It's not quite the same thing as "I was banned from LP for posting over here.", is it? Yes,it IS related to posting at both places,but there was more to it than that.
For example,both you and I post to both places,and we haven't been banned from LP. I even posted pro- Ron Paul articles at that time and wasn't banned and my articles weren't pulled. Granted,the threads I started were based on actual news reports,not stuff like "Ron Paul had a cheeseburger for lunch today!"

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 18:58:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1259. To: war (#1155)
Damn, that's mean. Turning it all the way to eleven...you're a bastard, war.

The new ones go up to 12...

Yeah,but they are made in China,and 12 really means 2.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 19:02:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1260. To: Hayek Fan (#1168)
Hell she even had a couple of meltdowns when McCain lost the election and threatened to ban people who didn't vote for McCain.

Then why wasn't I banned? I was actively trying to convince people to either vote for Ron Paul on a write in ballot or to not vote for the office of president at all.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 19:07:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1261. To: sneakypete, FormerLurker (#1258)
I wasn't recruiting for 4um. That is the excuse that Goldi used. I wasn't posting Ron Paul threads or bad mouthing LP. I broke no rules. I believe I was banned for my association with Brer Rabbit. You need to read my subsequent posts on this thread regarding what happened.
Calling me a liar doesn't change what happened it only makes me dislike you. I find it interesting that you were so quick to assume I was lying rather than finding out what happened before jumping to conclusions. You will never be trusted again.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 19:36:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1262. To: sneakypete (#1258)
For example,both you and I post to both places,and we haven't been banned from LP

I was banned shortly before farmfriend.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 19:47:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1263. To: FormerLurker, sneakypete (#1262) (Edited)
I was banned shortly before farmfriend.

You didn't happen to bookmark that thread did you? I may have it, I'll have to look. I can confirm FL's banning.
Here is Goldi's word on banning FL. He was banned twice!
FL was banned 7/27/06. Somehow I didn't push the right button and it didn't stick. I fixed it last week.

"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 19:49:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1264. To: FormerLurker, sneakypete, (#1262)
Goldi-Lox is a LIAR, and I can prove it
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 19:53:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1265. To: farmfriend, sneakypete (#1263)
FL was banned 7/27/06. Somehow I didn't push the right button and it didn't stick. I fixed it last week.

I believe her real reason was that Marguerite had boo-hooed to Goldi because I was being mean to Byteshredder by not bending over for him when he knocked the soap out of my hand.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 19:53:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1266. To: farmfriend (#1210)
For what it's worth, I believe the real reason I was banned was my association at the time with Brer Rabbit.

See? Even YOU don't think you were banned at LP for posting over here.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 19:54:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1267. To: sneakypete (#1266)
See? Even YOU don't think you were banned at LP for posting over here.

Yes but that was the reason Goldi said. I have proof of the one and only supposition of the other.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 19:56:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1268. To: farmfriend (#1261)
I wasn't recruiting for 4um. That is the excuse that Goldi used.

Ok. I don't remember what happened if I even saw it,but I have no doubt that is the way you remember it.
I believe I was banned for my association with Brer Rabbit.
Then even YOU don't believe you were banned for posting at both forums. Yet you continue to give me shit over this. Calling me a liar doesn't change what happened it only makes me dislike you. I find it interesting that you were so quick to assume I was lying rather than finding out what happened before jumping to conclusions. You will never be trusted again.
What *I* find interesting is that I didn't call you a liar,yet you keep insisting that I did.
As far as you trusting me in the future goes,I really don't give a rabid rats ass. I am only responsible for what I say and do,not for what you think,say,or do.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 20:10:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1269. To: FormerLurker (#1262)
For example,both you and I post to both places,and we haven't been banned from LP I was banned shortly before farmfriend.

OOOPS! Sorry.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 20:10:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1270. To: FormerLurker (#1265)
I believe her real reason was that Marguerite had boo-hooed to Goldi

Was this back when Marguerite/Victoria was trying to run her scam to make Goldi feel guilty about being a Jew for not banning anti-Zionist posters?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 20:12:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1271. To: sneakypete (#1268)
Ok. I don't remember what happened if I even saw it,but I have no doubt that is the way you remember it.

It is a matter of record! I have the posts saved. It has nothing to do with how I remember it. And yes you insinuated I was lying since what I said couldn't possibly be true in your mind.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
farmfriend posted on 2009-03-24 20:21:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1272. To: sneakypete (#1270)
Was this back when Marguerite/Victoria was trying to run her scam to make Goldi feel guilty about being a Jew for not banning anti-Zionist posters?

From what I've seen by dropping by LP on occasion, when ISN'T Margurite trying to get people banned by appealing to Goldi's self doubt and desire to fit in as a born again Jewess?
What is especially noticable is her drama queen performance whenever someone stands up to Byteshredder, citing LP rules in terms of civility, insinuating that poor ole Byteshredder was attacked and treated unfairly without provocation, where she of course totally ignores any amount of profane slander HE feels like dishing out to his victims. He is given free reign to target and slander ANYONE he wishes, and his personal attacks are relentless and over the top, yet he has never been sanctioned for his behavior and total lack of civility. I was fairly effective in neutralizing his attacks, and I think that's what truly got me banned.
Just do a search for comments from Marguerite to Goldi and filter out her group pings to see what I mean. She's recently expanded her maternal passion apparently and has been protecting the likes of yukon and other neobots from what I've noticed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-24 20:45:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1273. To: farmfriend (#1271)
And yes you insinuated I was lying since what I said couldn't possibly be true in your mind.

I insinuated nothing. I flat out stated you were wrong,and you were. You later admitted this by saying you think you were banned for belng close to Brer Rabbit.
It is only in your mind that I called you a liar,but if you continue to insist that I did I WILL call you a liar.
I thought you were mistaken,and you were. It's that simple. Don't make it out to be something it wasn't.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 21:01:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1274. To: FormerLurker (#1272)
From what I've seen by dropping by LP on occasion, when ISN'T Margurite trying to get people banned by appealing to Goldi's self doubt and desire to fit in as a born again Jewess?

You would be surprised at how Marguerite/Victoria has changed since Goldi banner her as Victoria.
Yeah,she is still firmly pro-Israel but she isn't screaming anti-Semite! in every post. I know it's hard to believe,but it's true. I'd have a hard time believing it myself if I hadn't seen it.
insinuating that poor ole Byteshredder was attacked and treated unfairly without provocation, where she of course totally ignores any amount of profane slander HE feels like dishing out to his victims. He is given free reign to target and slander ANYONE he wishes, and his personal attacks are relentless and over the top, yet he has never been sanctioned for his behavior and total lack of civility.
To be honest I came to the conclusion a long time ago that reading his posts is a waste of time,so I have no idea what he does or says. I just skip over them.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 21:06:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1275. To: sneakypete (#1260)
Hell she even had a couple of meltdowns when McCain lost the election and threatened to ban people who didn't vote for McCain.
Then why wasn't I banned? I was actively trying to convince people to either vote for Ron Paul on a write in ballot or to not vote for the office of president at all.

I don't know if she actually banned anyone. I just remember the meltdowns and threats. I can't believe you don't remember it. It was right after the elections. She blamed Paul and Baldwin voters for McStain's loss and went on a couple of different rampages within as many days. I believe the threads were even posted here.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-24 21:55:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1276. To: Hayek Fan (#1275)
It was right after the elections. She blamed Paul and Baldwin voters for McStain's loss and went on a couple of different rampages within as many days.

Yes,I do remember that. She was pretty hysterical for a few days over that. I don't remember anybody getting banned over it,though. I know I wasn't.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-24 22:30:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1277. To: sneakypete, palo verde (#1274)
You would be surprised at how Marguerite/Victoria has changed since Goldi banner her as Victoria.

Don't forget JappFan and Liquid while you're at it.
http://www.freedomunderground.org/view.php?v=3&t=3&aid=4520
Same old same old. Goldi still sides with her, always will, and you know it. She got backed into a corner when she banned her as Jazz fan, that's the only reason she banned her and you know that I think. You keep bringing up Goldi's banning her that one time like it means something and it doesn't. I think you know that too.
Palo can tell us about it, but for some strange reason she always leaves Merc out of the story, very odd really, if you go back and read the threads. I did.

kUSS posted on 2009-03-25 0:04:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1278. To: Hayek Fan, sneakypete (#1275)
She blamed Paul and Baldwin voters for McStain's loss and went on a couple of different rampages within as many days

If anything, Goldi can thank herself for helping Obama getting elected as she trashed the only Republican who stood a chance against Obama, while villifying and banning his supporters along with any positive mention of him. Of course that candidate's name is Ron Paul.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 1:50:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1279. To: kUSS (#1277)
Palo can tell us about it, but for some strange reason she always leaves Merc out of the story,

What did Merc have to do with it? Was she banned,too? I know she hasn't posted there in a long time.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-25 3:54:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1280. To: FormerLurker (#1278)
If anything, Goldi can thank herself for helping Obama getting elected as she trashed the only Republican who stood a chance against Obama, while villifying and banning his supporters along with any positive mention of him. Of course that candidate's name is Ron Paul.

Ron Paul stood less chance of being elected than I did,and I wasn't running. The alleged Republicans hated him more than the Dims did.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-25 3:58:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1281. To: Dakmar (#128)
"Slim's fault"

I plead "Not Guilty"...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-03-25 8:17:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1282. To: FormerLurker (#1255)
There was a relative pinhole in the exterior wall

Relative pinHOLE?

Relative pinHOLE?

Relative pinhole?

Relative pinhole?

war posted on 2009-03-25 8:23:28 ET (4 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1283. To: FormerLurker (#1255)
, and the inner steel core

The core was cement around steel girders and elevator shafts.
How many tims havve I correct you on the above?
there was no horizontal failure or movement,
Bzzzt...the outer walls clearly bowed inward...

war posted on 2009-03-25 8:27:09 ET (2 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1284. To: FormerLurker (#1255)
otherwise the top of the tower WOULD have toppled

Still not getting the whole inertia/gravity relationship?

war posted on 2009-03-25 8:28:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1285. To: FormerLurker (#1255)
, and there was a loss of horizontal integrity as you are trying to claim, it would have fallen over, not straight down.

You're assuming that the WHOLE structure would have to move...it wouldn't....all it would take would be continuing stress on the building to keep its center of gravity moving enough to compromise its support structure.

war posted on 2009-03-25 8:32:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1286. To: sneakypete (#1279)
Palo can tell us about it, but for some strange reason she always leaves Merc out of the story,
What did Merc have to do with it?

Well having read the threads after all this took place, it sure did seem to me that the person (Cote Blanc I think is was) Palo credits with exposing (as if she isn't as obvious as could be) jazzfan was actually in fact echoing what Merc had said already earlier in the same thread. I wasn't at LP at the time so I might well have missed some other things, but in looking it up that's what I found.

Was she banned,too? I know she hasn't posted there in a long time.

What happened? She was driven off. You missed the Mommy Dearest thread? And the ones before it? You were pinged to it I see, but no replies from you there. It has over 12 hundred replies, and was linked and talked about on all these sites for a while. This was after Merc gave her the ass whipping she had coming (restored here ) and got an apology of sorts, and Goldi deleted it for no reason.

There were others but they were deleted too. You missed them all? Amazing.

kUSS posted on 2009-03-25 10:43:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1287. To: kUSS, sneakypete (#1286)
I was angelspawn, the other poster banned when jazzfan/veronica was banned some years ago. jazzfan was let back on and I was always booted when Moldy Lox figured out who I was.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-25 10:48:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1288. To: kUSS (#1286)
This was after Merc gave her the ass whipping she had coming

well deserved one.

litus posted on 2009-03-25 10:51:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1289. To: All (#1286)
I see that second link is broken, here's a good one I think.

kUSS posted on 2009-03-25 10:53:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1290. To: kUSS (#1286)
What happened? She was driven off. You missed the Mommy Dearest thread? And the ones before it? You were pinged to it I see, but no replies from you there. It has over 12 hundred replies, and was linked and talked about on all these sites for a while.
Yes,I missed them all. I rarely bother to click on those personal vendetta links. If I am pinged to one and it has nothing to do with me I figure I was just a part of a gang ping and never bother to read it.
Also,Merc seemed to dislike me from our days at FR,and almost never responded to any ping I threw her way. Another reason for me to not get involved in a long thread where she was the focus.
This was after Merc gave her the ass whipping she had coming (restored here ) and got an apology of sorts, and Goldi deleted it for no reason.
Merc was/is sharp as a tack,and you had better be prepared when you take her on,regardless of who you are.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-25 11:41:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1291. To: war (#1282)
Relative pinhole?

Yep, a relative pinhole in terms of lateral loads. The vertical load was largely supported by the inner core, whereas the exterior wall was designed to distribute lateral loads caused by the wind. As you can see from the smoke, there was no wind that day.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 11:41:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1292. To: war (#1283)
The core was cement around steel girders and elevator shafts.
How many tims havve I correct you on the above?

The steel box columns and girders were massive, as can be seen from the images I posted. You make it sound like it was steel rod reinforced concrete, where that is not the case.
How many times have I corrected YOU on that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 11:44:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1293. To: bluegrass (#1287)
I was angelspawn, the other poster banned when jazzfan/veronica was banned some years ago.
I think I remember your screen name even if i don't remember why you were banned.
jazzfan was let back on and I was always booted when Moldy Lox figured out who I was.
I have called Marguerite "Veronica" dozens of times while pinging Goldi,but Marguerite always denies being Veronica/Jazzfan and for some reason Goldi lets her slide on it.
Maybe she has figured out how people manage to post under different screen names without being exposed? I know there is a way,but have never been curious enough about it to try to figure out how they were doing it.

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-25 11:45:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1294. To: war (#1285)
You're assuming that the WHOLE structure would have to move...it wouldn't....all it would take would be continuing stress on the building to keep its center of gravity moving enough to compromise its support structure.

You are grasping at straws. You are trying to make it sound as if it was an inherently unstable structure and was performing a balancing act. It was not a disjointed unbalanced structure, it was a ridid structure supported by a steel core, so there was no shifting of center of gravity taking place.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 11:46:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1295. To: sneakypete, pinguinite, christine (#1293)
I think I remember your screen name even if i don't remember why you were banned.

"AngelSpawn: Your account is the one I hesitate most to ban as a review of your recent posting history shows no specific comment that I see violating our policy. However, you did in at least one recent instance participate in transforming a thread having nothing to do with Jews/Israel into a thread about Jews/Israel. I'm satisfied that constitutes disruption, and I don't think it likely that that is the only time it's happened. If you don't think so, email me." link, 2004-01-02
To pinguinite: Has your opinion re: Zionism changed in the intervening 5 years?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-25 11:55:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1296. To: FormerLurker (#1291)
Yep, a relative pinhole in terms of lateral loads.

You're out of your mind...
The buildings entire center of gravity shifted when those supports were cut.

The vertical load was largely supported by the inner core,
Nope.
whereas the exterior wall was designed to distribute lateral loads caused by the wind.
That was one of it's functions.
We're not charting any new ground here. You've raised all of this before and you were shown each time to be incorrect. First by the design architect...

war posted on 2009-03-25 12:06:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1297. To: FormerLurker (#1292)
The steel box columns and girders were massive, as can be seen from the images I posted. You make it sound like it was steel rod reinforced concrete, where that is not the case.

The steel box columns were at the base in the bathtub and did not run the hight of the structure as they transistioned into I-beams near the top. Those same steel columns actually tapered in thickness as they reeached the top.

Those strcutures on the perimter of the core, btw, are not columns but supports for the crane.

war posted on 2009-03-25 12:18:07 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1298. To: FormerLurker (#1294)
You are grasping at straws.

Wha...huh?
Dude...firmly anchor a 10 foot pole in the ground 2 feet and shake the bottom and then shake the top...this is BASIC stuff you're arguing against...
A whip's TAIL breaks the sound barrier but where you are holding it, it does not...

war posted on 2009-03-25 12:20:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1299. To: FormerLurker (#1292)
How many times have I corrected YOU on that?

Correctly?
0

war posted on 2009-03-25 12:20:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1300. To: FormerLurker (#1291)
whereas the exterior wall was designed to distribute lateral loads caused by the wind. As you can see from the smoke, there was no wind that day.

Final answer?

Bzzzzttt....

war posted on 2009-03-25 12:25:24 ET (2 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1301. To: war, FormerLurker (#1300)
This Truther debate has been handy. I added a whole bunch more of these Truther sites to my AdBlock list so I never have see their photo content again.
Thanks for your contributions.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-25 13:14:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1302. To: TooConservative, FormerLurker (#1301)
Your Humble Servant...
Funny that he has yet to realize that I an using material that comes from Moonbat sites. I keep that in mind as he tries to impeach my info.
Then I laugh...

war posted on 2009-03-25 13:21:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1303. To: palo verde (#135)
Howdy palo, good to see you over here...hope all is well with you...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-03-25 16:44:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1304. To: war, TooConservative (#1302) (Edited)
Funny that he has yet to realize that I an using material that comes from Moonbat sites. I keep that in mind as he tries to impeach my info.

You're posting images that contradict your own claims. Boy what a genius you are.
And BTW, I didn't know the images came from FreeRepublic, home of the moonbats.
And to you "TooConservative", why don't you just stick your head back in the toilet if you don't like to know what's going on...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 17:02:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1305. To: war (#1296)
The buildings entire center of gravity shifted when those supports were cut.
Did you ever finish elementary school? The center of gravity doesn't change until the load shifts or there is a change in it's relative angle to the center of the earth.
Those weren't supports by the way, the exterior wall provided a net like casing for the WTC and only stablized the building against wind loads. You posted an image as "proof" that there was wind that day. It was more of a breeze, and that was only at an elevation higher than the WTC itself. The smoke coming from the windows went straight upwards.
Besides, even moderate winds wouldn't have stressed the building. Hurricane force winds MIGHT have posed a problem, although the exterior structure was more than likely not compromised enough to make a difference either way.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 17:08:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1306. To: war (#1298)
Dude...firmly anchor a 10 foot pole in the ground 2 feet and shake the bottom and then shake the top...this is BASIC stuff you're arguing against...
A whip's TAIL breaks the sound barrier but where you are holding it, it does not...

Huh? Are you trying to say that someone at the bottom of the WTC picked it up and tried snapping it like a whip? I always knew you were a whackjob, but I wasn't aware that you were a stark raving lunatic.
In reference to your analogy of a pole, are you trying to say that the towers were swaying all over the place? You are a jackass.
The towers were solidly in place and NOT experiencing ANY abnormal sway, if they swayed at all from the VERY slight wind that morning.
You are acting like a cartoon character that even little children would see as an idiot.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 17:13:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1307. To: war (#1297)
Those strcutures on the perimter of the core, btw, are not columns but supports for the crane.

So? The core is still not a flimsy set of rods as you make it out to be. In fact that part of the core is not even complete.

Here's a better image that shows a near complete section of the core...

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 17:18:10 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1308. To: war (#1296)
The vertical load was largely supported by the inner core,

Nope.

You fool, you can see from the image you posted how the exterior wall was supported at the bottom of the structure, and it is NOT built to be a vertical load bearing part of the structure. It was built to flex and distribute any lateral wind forces across as much of the structure as possible, dampened by arched legs at the bottom of the structure.
You are either blind or stupid, or paid to act that way.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 17:28:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1309. To: All (#1308) (Edited)

Look at the bottom of the exterior wall. Those are not vertical load bearing columns, they are dampeners for the exterior wall to absorb lateral wind forces.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-25 17:30:16 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1310. To: bluegrass (#1295)
You're right. Your banning seems to be entirely arbitrary.
Did you email her to state your case,or did you just say "screw it!" and accept it?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-25 19:05:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1311. To: sneakypete (#1310)
(Incredibly freaky!)

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-25 19:24:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1312. To: bluegrass (#1295)
"AngelSpawn: Your account is the one I hesitate most to ban as a review of your recent posting history shows no specific comment that I see violating our policy. However, you did in at least one recent instance participate in transforming a thread having nothing to do with Jews/Israel into a thread about Jews/Israel. I'm satisfied that constitutes disruption, and I don't think it likely that that is the only time it's happened. If you don't think so, email me." link, 2004-01-02

mcIver did that ????

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-25 19:28:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1313. To: TooConservative (#1301)
You really believe the Official Story®, don't you ! ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-25 19:29:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1314. To: pinguinite (#1295)
Having decided that I'm sufficiently fed-up with all the threads dedicated to Jews & anti-semitism (alleged or more) and some of the related incivility, a few hours ago I suspended the following accounts (in no particular order):
AngelSpawn, Ben Herbivore, Jazzfan, WhiteFlame (WF since reregistering as MrAnderson, also banned).
These accounts are banned for the following reasons:
AngelSpawn: Your account is the one I hesitate most to ban as a review of your recent posting history shows no specific comment that I see violating our policy. However, you did in at least one recent instance participate in transforming a thread having nothing to do with Jews/Israel into a thread about Jews/Israel. I'm satisfied that constitutes disruption, and I don't think it likely that that is the only time it's happened. If you don't think so, email me.
Ben Herbivore: You've been very uncivil on numerous occasions (which I find quite out of character for someone who professed to be a Christian -- if you're are then you and God certainly know something I don't) too eager and quick to accuse people of anti-semitism among other things. Thanks again for the funny cartoon, though.
Jazzfan: Well..... see what I said about BH above (minus the Christian part, I suppose) and all the other nasty things I've said about you in my last 30 posts or so. Not particularly flattering, if I do say so myself.
WhiteFlame: Your last post to me (under than screen name) makes very plain accusations against Jews in taking over everything. If I were as patient as I used to be, I'd ask you *why* it is Jews supposedly do these things to put you into the position of having no real answer that would pass site policy. But I'm not going to do that. I've no time. I've no patience. I'm not getting paid enough to bother and I have better things to do. Your alter ego "MrAnderson" is also banned, and the thread you started and posted on deleted.
To all: I regret the situation deteriorated here as long as it did. Pretty much since we opened up, more than a few of you have expressed some appreciation/amazement at my patience with people. Perhaps this time it has served as a liability for the site. It has always been my goal to have LP be a "level playing field" site where "the truth can stand on its own" and where I'd be content just letting the arguments stand or fall where they may. Honestly, if everyone were like me, it would work well. Particularly since we have a bozo filter that would have served many people to keep the threads free of a lot of the crap. *Some* of you are like me that way but not all. That's okay, though, since it's a "the customer is always right" type of thing.
Still, one reason I have to be patient about these things is because I know that I can kick anyone off this site anytime I so much as feel like it. I'm not a perfect judge and my timing may be worse than my judging, but recovering from obnoxious posters is something that we can always do at any time.
There may be more bannings than the above. I'll probably be less patient with people in the future. I'll probably get more criticisms for not respecting "free speech" or for compromising my principles or the original mission of LP.... maybe. I don't know. Maybe not. On the other hand, I will be less fed up, and I will have more time to do stuff that actually pays my own bills, one of which I could be doing instead of writing this post.
But I do appreciate the vast majority of you that participate on LP and have offered so much time, effort, concern, financial support -- and now I'll add "patience" to that list -- for the benefit of LP. LP is about growing, learning and becoming better than we were, even if just a little bit. My lesson in all this is not to be as patient when I see people like Jazzfan on-line. Hopefully that makes me a better guy than I was before, and if it does, it just goes to prove that LP does indeed work, and that all the effort IS paying off. ;^)
My best to all well-intended LPers! I hope you had a happy and safe New Year's in spite of what was transpiring here. Let's hope 2004 brings us better tidings on LP, and that we'll have more virtue and integrity in all regions of the world.
Thank you,
Neil McIver Manager, Liberty Post

ACK !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-25 19:37:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1315. To: sneakypete (#1314)
19. To: Neil McIver, Goldi-Lox (#0)
This couldn't have been easy for either of you,but it had to be done.

sneakypete posted on 2004-01-02 22:53:28 ET Reply Trace

LOL !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-25 19:42:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1316. To: FormerLurker (#1309)
Look at the bottom of the exterior wall. Those are not vertical load bearing columns, they are dampeners for the exterior wall to absorb lateral wind forces.

They weren't the main support for the vertical load, but they did provide some support. However even without them the core would have been able to hold the floors up but the trusses might not have been able to. But only a small fraction of the exterior columns in each tower was damaged so that had virtually no effect on any floor falling.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-25 19:44:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1317. To: pinguinite (#1314)
LP is about growing, learning and becoming better than we were, even if just a little bit. My lesson in all this is not to be as patient when I see people like Jazzfan on-line. Hopefully that makes me a better guy than I was before, and if it does, it just goes to prove that LP does indeed work, and that all the effort IS paying off. ;^)

So this past year really hasn't been anything new for you ?? LOL

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-25 19:46:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1318. To: dakmar (#1317)
4. To: Neil McIver, palo verde, christine, lucky (#0)
You did good Neil, Angel Spawn was starting to look kind of obsessive to even me, and I'm a kooky uberdeutscher what plays Beethoven's 9th at least twice a year, usually real loud like.

Dakmar posted on 2004-01-02 22:24:52 ET Reply Trace

Har har !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-25 19:48:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1319. To: Rotara (#1318)
The millicents have nothing on me, brother.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-25 20:23:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1320. To: bluegrass (#1319)
#1318. No hard feelings, oh my brother? :)
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-25 20:25:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1321. To: Rotara (#1313)
You really believe the Official Story®, don't you ! ?

I doubt we'll ever know.
The government conducted a whitewash investigation. The Truthers, many of them flakes and self-promoters, jumped into the fray. Some of them are real nutjobs.
Now, I don't think you ever manage to prove it unless you get lucky, like someone directly involved confessing to it, providing credible evidence.
You know, this will drag on the rest of our lives, like the JFK thing. Or Waco. If someone gets too close to some actual truth and proof, you might see the gooberment hatch another tragedy, just to distract people.
I don't think the Truthers ever met the burden of proof.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-25 21:10:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1322. To: Rotara, christine (#1250)
Neil McIver took a stand for Ron Paul there I believe. Then he drank the Obamessiah Kool Aid shortly thereafter iirc. ;-)

No, you do not rc.
I really don't want to waste my time going down this road again. Frankly, I don't participate as much here as I used to because of the damned stupidity and accusations I have endured here during election season, all by people that are too quick to judge and too slow to listen, and in fact blinded by some defect in their own biased minds.
I have a life to live, and I'm living it and enjoying it. Enjoy yours.
Neil

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-25 21:48:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1323. To: Pinguinite (#1322)
I have a life to live, and I'm living it and enjoying it. Enjoy yours.

Enjoy it in the jungle, sans a gun.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-25 21:51:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1324. To: Jethro Tull (#1323)
I was in the jungle yesterday, as a matter of fact. Today it's back home in the mountains, and tomorrow, it's off to the beach.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-25 21:53:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1325. To: Pinguinite (#1324)
I was in the jungle yesterday, as a matter of fact.

What part?
It's the second mouse that gets the cheese
Flintlock posted on 2009-03-25 21:56:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1326. To: Flintlock (#1325)
I was in the jungle yesterday, as a matter of fact.
What part?

Lets me go first.
The Amazon.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-25 22:08:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1327. To: Pinguinite (#1324)
Sounds lovely as long as the natives tolerate you.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-25 22:09:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1328. To: Flintlock (#1325)
Hey Flint. Long time. I was in Tena.
Where abouts are you these days?

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-25 22:13:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1329. To: Jethro Tull (#1327)
Sounds lovely as long as the natives tolerate you.

Much more than you ever have.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-25 22:15:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1330. To: Pinguinite (#1329)
Much more than you ever have.

First, you haven't a clue how freely I live, and second, the absurd lifestyle you lived here put a big fat target on your back, and for what? You never had a dime, so taxes wasn't an issue. And as far as driving? People need licenses, as you found out, ya' silly thing.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-25 22:22:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1331. To: Pinguinite (#1328)
I was in Tena.

Panning for gold? Tena is a little too civilized for me. I preferred it a little further east.
Let's just say I'm living on my ~~yacht~~ boat in a tropical climate
It's the second mouse that gets the cheese
Flintlock posted on 2009-03-25 22:23:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1332. To: Jethro Tull (#1330)
First, you haven't a clue how freely I live,

Did I ever say that I cared about how you live?

and second, the absurd lifestyle you lived here put a big fat target on your back, and for what? You never had a dime, so taxes wasn't an issue. And as far as driving? People need licenses, as you found out, ya' silly thing.

I don't believe that you care about me either, so I'm not inclined to discuss my life with you either.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-25 22:59:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1333. To: Pinguinite (#1332)
I'm not inclined to discuss my life with you either.

You discussed your life on your goofy life w/o a number blog. I tried not to read it but it was a personal train wreck, so I couldn't help myself.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-25 23:06:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1334. To: Flintlock (#1331)
We did do some recreational panning. Found an old sluicing dredge on a creek, but only found a little gold. But it was a good time.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-25 23:19:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1335. To: Jethro Tull (#1333)
Well ain't that just wonderful. Good for you.
Now for all I care, you can go screw yourself.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-25 23:23:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1336. To: Pinguinite (#1335)
I like the old Neil better; the one who pimped for Obingo and was willing to trade our 2nd for global peace. Pleeeeeeeeeze........

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-25 23:26:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1337. To: Jethro Tull (#1336)
I like the old Neil better; the one who pimped for Obingo and was willing to trade our 2nd for global peace. Pleeeeeeeeeze........

I don't see how any intelligent person could have fallen for Obama. It makes no sense at all.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-25 23:32:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1338. To: Jethro Tull, Christine (#1336)
I really don't know how Christine tolerates you. You are simply an ass, and nothing more.
I'm sorry, Christine, but it's simply true.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-25 23:41:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1339. To: Pinguinite (#1338)
Jizzzzzzzzzzzzz
It's the second mouse that gets the cheese
Flintlock posted on 2009-03-25 23:46:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1340. To: Pinguinite (#1338)
I really don't know how Christine tolerates you. You are simply an ass, and nothing more.
I'm sorry, Christine, but it's simply true.

You yellow bellied lily livered son of a bitch !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 0:12:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1341. To: Rotara (#1340)
You yellow bellied lily livered son of a bitch !!

Meaning what, exactly? Was that sarcasm?
It's redundant, I know, but I guess I need to point out that I came on this thread to defend myself against your resurrected slander of my person, after which JT decided to restart an old war. I did not ping him. I did not have any desire to communicate with him. But he decided it would be a good idea to start it all back up.
Ergo, he is an ass. Pure and simple.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-26 0:19:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1342. To: Pinguinite (#1341)
YOU are the ass, America-hater !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 0:22:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1343. To: Pinguinite (#1328)
Hey Flint. Long time. I was in Tena.

I really am quite sure I was in Tena, twenty years ago. A small city as I recall.
PG Ecuador seems to me like a great place.
Sue and I just got back from three weeks in Mexico, and it was just a great experience. I remember Ecuador, from 1985, to be a a tremendous place to travel.
I am geared up for all of Latin America.
I bet your Spanish is very good at this point.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-26 0:33:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1344. To: Rotara (#1342)
YOU are the ass, America-hater !

America-hater.....?
Wow. That insult used to be tossed around on LP against a lot of people here. How ironic the cycle starts again on a thread speculating about LP's demise.
Amazing how we become what we hate most, isn't it Rotara?

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-26 0:42:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1345. To: Pinguinite (#1344)
Amazing how we become what we hate most, isn't it Rotara?

Speak for yourself.
I'm carrying open just like always, Obamalamadingdong lover.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 0:44:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1346. To: Pinguinite (#1328)
I was in Tena.

PG,
It has been a while, but Tena was a (from what I recall) a terribly muddy bus stop on the way to Muswhie(a lousy spelling) and the initial departure for a long canoue trip down the Rio Napo to the great named town of Coca, maybe about twenty miles from the Puervian Border.
This was one of the greatest trips I have ever had in my life.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-26 0:45:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1347. To: Rotara (#1342) (Edited)
YOU are the ass, America-hater !

You have a way with words. You assume I am up to no good by announcing that I don't care for Alex Jones and have reason to think he is not what he portrays himself to be. On that lone bit of info alone you hurl insults. Did Alex teach you to act that way?
I don't know why Neil thought Obama would be any different than the rest. I hope he realizes he was wrong about that now. But even if he doesn't, insulting someone for something they sincerely believe, even if they are wrong, is childish and counterproductive to a mutual understanding of the issues.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-26 0:50:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1348. To: All (#1346)
I was in a bus with a Portugause girl, who on the trip to Musiane, (sp) was energic and interested in men.
Well my cousin and my self had a world class wonderful time playing guitar and singing ballads while the Rio Napo flowed behind us with the locals.
A wonderful memory, really.
One of the locals was Juan, and he was a great drinker, good guitar player and had some fine weed which he was generous to share in this remote star splayed skies of the Southern Hemisphere
The skies that night were beyound description..
Well all of this has a good ending.

Prolly about two AYM Juan comes rolling into our "hotel" room and grabs a matteress, and hauls it out-, my cousin and I are are hardly awake, and off goes Juan and a matteress.
Well what do we care.
So the next day,as we have tickets (haha)on the boat run to Coca, here appears Juan and his new girl friend, dragging our mattress back to out room.
Turns out that Juan was the Captian of our longboat the next day, and he did am admirable job (really) of dealin with all the serous rapids of the Rio Napo.
Was a frekking wonderful trip.
Spent the night in Coco, and some how caught a military plane to Quito, and the pilot was king enough to fly around the massive mountins there.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-26 1:15:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1349. To: Pinguinite (#1338)
i'm sorry for the animosity between you and JT, Neil, but it has nothing to do with me. this should be between the two of you. i don't appreciate being included in your insult to him as i'm sure he won't, but since you did, i will say that i strongly disagree with your assessment.

christine posted on 2009-03-26 1:18:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1350. To: christine (#1349)
I was in Tena.

I really think a three week trip to Melaque Mexico is what, Christine, is called for here.
I can highly recommend a hotel for $14.50 a day with some just wonderful people running it.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-26 1:28:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1351. To: tom007, christine (#1350)
Just don't drink the water.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 1:32:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1352. To: christine (#1349)
Did I mention That you are a wonderful person that my family would like to be aquainted with?
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-26 1:35:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1353. To: Original_Intent (#1351)
Just don't drink the water.

I followed your advice,
The beer was excellent.
Sol,$.44 a bottle.
Mexico was Hell.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2009-03-26 1:37:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1354. To: RickyJ (#1347)
I don't know why Neil thought Obama would be any different than the rest. I hope he realizes he was wrong about that now. But even if he doesn't, insulting someone for something they sincerely believe, even if they are wrong, is childish and counterproductive to a mutual understanding of the issues.

I never suggested anyone vote for Obama. I've always suggested voting for either Ron Paul, as a write-in if/when necessary, or Barr, the LP candidate. Yet my casual observations about what might be different between Obama and McCain was apparently successfully exploited by a shill or two here to damage my reputation. And a few here were apparently (at best) careless enough to fall for it, and too close minded to see that they were successfully duped. And they continue to carry on the work of those shills.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-26 1:58:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1355. To: christine, All (#1349)
I understand we have differing opinions on JT, and that's fine.
But I think the record on this thread of his completely unsolicited attacks on me on this evening speaks for itself, and supports my assessment quite strongly. I believe that any unbiased person reviewing it would agree.
And if I feel 4um is a place where it's open season for unwarranted attacks on my reputation, I'll close my account and go for good.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-26 2:10:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1356. To: Pinguinite (#1354)
OK, I kind of thought you were for Obama over McCain but I guess I was wrong.
When the establishment controls who are the choices for President then it is a safe bet they differ very slightly on the issues to the point of being insignificant.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-26 2:42:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1357. To: Rotara (#1342)
YOU are the ass, America-hater !

Hey shit for brains, Neil is the person that made this forum you're spewing shit on possible. He partnered with Goldi-Lox to create LP, and gave us 4um with the hostess (and owner) being christine.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you shit for brains. You should get on your knees and apologize for being such a major asshole.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 2:48:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1358. To: Pinguinite (#1355)
Hey Neil, don't disappear off into the sunset. You've got some people here that look up to you and appreciate what you've done, and that includes me.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 3:01:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1359. To: Pinguinite, TwentyTwelve, christine, Rotara, all (#1355)
I understand we have differing opinions on JT, and that's fine.
But I think the record on this thread of his completely unsolicited attacks on me on this evening speaks for itself, and supports my assessment quite strongly. I believe that any unbiased person reviewing it would agree.
And if I feel 4um is a place where it's open season for unwarranted attacks on my reputation, I'll close my account and go for good.

Let it be water off of a Duck's back. If I allowed all the attacks and name calling I've taken bother me I would have slit my wrists a long time ago. I'm sure that would have made a few shills happy.
I still recall your stand on the thread that got TwentyTwelve and I banned for pointing out that Goldi-Pox was a stinking lying hypocritical Israel Firster. Of course I was a bit more decorous before the banning. ;-)
You need not be bothered by the misapprehensions of others. Seek first and only your own approval. Of course it doesn't hurt to have God on your side either.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 3:12:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1360. To: Itistoolate (#1311)
LOL! Maybe Calypso Louie Farakhan is behind all this?

sneakypete posted on 2009-03-26 7:29:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1361. To: FormerLurker (#1304)
You're posting images that contradict your own claims.

You keep posting that but, oddly, the details of those contradictions never seem to be made. Why is that?

war posted on 2009-03-26 7:33:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1362. To: FormerLurker (#1306)
In reference to your analogy of a pole, are you trying to say that the towers were swaying all over the place?

Had you ever been in the towers? You could feel the sway in the upper floors. This one is the easiest of your rantings to bitch slap. The towers swayed...it 's why lateral support was so important. And, uh, the design engineers after they had tested their prototypes that determined how much sway both the building and the occupants could take, they then developed a MASSIVE system of viscoelastic dampers that mitigated the sway. Guess where they put these dampers....BETWEEN THE TRUSSES AND THE PERIMETER COLUMNS.
Your problem is that you've assumed a conclusion, i.e. "BOOOSH BRUNG DOWN THE TOWERS!!!" and are trying to construct a fairy tale based upon Moonbatism Your further problem is, there are several REALITIES that stand in the way of your paranoiac fanrasy. So to cut to the chase here and answer your question...yes, Alice IN Wonderland, the towers did sway and the lost of perimeter support exacerbated that sway.

war posted on 2009-03-26 7:44:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1363. To: FormerLurker (#1307)
Doof...that is a) the lower structure of the tower and that has has been pointed out to you more than once and b) you are mistaking 1) crane supports and 2) concrete forms for support beams.

war posted on 2009-03-26 7:54:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1364. To: FormerLurker (#1308)
the exterior wall ...[was] NOT built to be a vertical load bearing part of the structure

Nope. That is just plain incorrect.
In terms of structural system the twin towers departed completely from other high-rise buildings. Conventional skyscrapers since the 19th century have been built with a skeleton of interior supporting columns that supports the structure. Exterior walls of glass steel or synthetic material do not carry any load. The Twin towers are radically different in structural design as the exterior wall is used as the load-bearing wall. (A load bearing wall supports the weight of the floors.) The only interior columns are located in the core area, which contains the elevators. The outer wall carries the building vertical loads and provides the entire resistance to wind. The wall consists of closely spaced vertical columns (21 columns 10 feet apart) tied together by horizontal spandrel beams that girdle the tower at every floor. On the inside of the structure the floor sections consist of trusses spanning from the core to the outer wall.

war posted on 2009-03-26 8:08:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1365. To: FormerLurker (#1305)
The center of gravity doesn't change until the load shifts

Doh...
You're flying by the seat of your pants and they need mending, dude...

war posted on 2009-03-26 8:20:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1366. To: Pinguinite (#1338)
Nobody who was present during your Obama, gun-grabbing wish list presentation last Fall will ever forget your words, so stop trying to play the martyr. You're a gold plated fraud, nothing more, nothing less.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-26 9:47:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1367. To: sneakypete, pinguinite (#1310)
Did you email her to state your case,or did you just say "screw it!" and accept it?

Trying to reason with Moldy Lox is like trying to reason with a bagel. I just moved on, though I did revive the screen name here just to spite the kikes.
As for Neil, it seems that he has caught up somewhat. The conditioning to avoid discussion of the Jewish power structures runs deep and it takes some longer than others to catch on. Nothing will change until the political discussion encompasses all of the power structures involved. I think it's turning in that direction now.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 10:08:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1368. To: Rotara (#1312)
Yes. It was some years ago so I believe he's gotten an education since then.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 10:11:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1369. To: Dakmar (#1320)
No hard feelings, oh my brother? :)

Not a one. You appear to have caught on.
It's not easy being on the cutting edge, day in, day out. ; )
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 10:12:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1370. To: war, FormerLurker (#1365)
The center of gravity doesn't change until the load shifts
Doh...
You're flying by the seat of your pants and they need mending, dude...

The center of gravity does not move, however the forces on the remaining supports change. Center of gravity isn't the correct term. Increasing in magnitude and changing in direction. This creates a torque on the supports where there were none before. This creates a shear stress in the steel supports, in addition to increasing the regular stress from just holding up the tower with fewer supports.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-26 10:19:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1371. To: Rhino369 (#1370)
I sent several of the links from my home computer to my work computer but I just copied and pasted them so I am not sure what I have here but I based that upon an analysis I had read that was complied by an engineer who said that the force of impact and resulting damage and which caused a weight shift implied that the center o gravity of actually shifted outside of the buildings' footptint. Now, I am not an engineer so I may have misunderstood his statement. It is that statement upon which I based my statement.

war posted on 2009-03-26 10:28:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1372. To: Jethro Tull (#1366)
I'll amend my assessment of you. You're an absolutely clueless ass.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-26 10:36:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1373. To: war (#1371)
I sent several of the links from my home computer to my work computer but I just copied and pasted them so I am not sure what I have here but I based that upon an analysis I had read that was complied by an engineer who said that the force of impact and resulting damage and which caused a weight shift implied that the center o gravity of actually shifted outside of the buildings' footptint. Now, I am not an engineer so I may have misunderstood his statement. It is that statement upon which I based my statement.

The center of gravity could have moved, if, the tower was actually bent in the impact. Otherwise not really. But the point you are making still stands, you are just using the wrong, or inaccurate term.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-26 10:37:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1374. To: Pinguinite (#1355)
I understand we have differing opinions on JT, and that's fine.
But I think the record on this thread of his completely unsolicited attacks on me on this evening speaks for itself, and supports my assessment quite strongly. I believe that any unbiased person reviewing it would agree.
And if I feel 4um is a place where it's open season for unwarranted attacks on my reputation, I'll close my account and go for good

Not that it matters, but I would hate to see you go Neil. You have more friends than enemies here.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2009-03-26 10:40:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1375. To: Original_Intent (#1359)
Let it be water off of a Duck's back. If I allowed all the attacks and name calling I've taken bother me I would have slit my wrists a long time ago. I'm sure that would have made a few shills happy.
I still recall your stand on the thread that got TwentyTwelve and I banned for pointing out that Goldi-Pox was a stinking lying hypocritical Israel Firster. Of course I was a bit more decorous before the banning. ;-)
You need not be bothered by the misapprehensions of others. Seek first and only your own approval. Of course it doesn't hurt to have God on your side either.

Good advice.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-26 11:05:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1376. To: Rhino369 (#1373)
Thanks...IIRC my physics correctly, C/G was simple geometry in basic structures - such as rectangles - as to where the average location of weight of an object was. IN a rectangle, again IIRC, it's height/2.

war posted on 2009-03-26 11:14:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1377. To: Pinguinite (#1372)
You're a disgrace, Neal. You always have been.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-26 11:21:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1378. To: Pinguinite (#1372)
I'll amend my assessment of you. You're an absolutely clueless ass.

Your attempts at revisionism might fool the suckers - the fact is that you flat out shilled for the black Mussolini like a bleeding heart world socialist and it will never be forgotten, gun grabber.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 11:25:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1379. To: Jethro Tull, pinguinite (#1377)
#34. To: Critter (#31)
Does thinking that Obama is nothing but another NWO stooge of a slightly different color making me an Obamaphobe?

There are 2 kinds of people on 4um. Those that like Obama because they are white guilters, and those who hate Obama because they are racists.
At least that seems to be the options put forth collectively by us 4umers.

Pinguinite posted on 2008-05-04 21:16:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

LOL
what a joke

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 11:26:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1380. To: bluegrass (#1368)
I believe he flows whichever way the world socialist hippie wind is blowing.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 11:34:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1381. To: Original_Intent (#1359)
I'm not falling for it, he's full of shit and he doesn't fool me for one nano.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 11:35:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1382. To: war (#1371)
Now, I am not an engineer so I may have misunderstood his statement.

In other words you have no idea of what you're talking about, and are simply cutting and pasting some terms you've read that were written by some guy who calls himself an engineer.
Guess what, I'M AN ENGINEER, so believe what I say.
Idiot.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 11:42:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1383. To: FormerLurker, war (#1382)
Guess what, I'M AN ENGINEER, so believe what I say.

LOL!
Ain't it sad that some (like our friend war) NEED the voice of authority so that they can override their own common sense?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 11:45:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1384. To: palo verde (#921)
I too like divergent views on a forum for me it enriches the experience I think because I discover I can see some things differently, and some things the same with many posters plus I get some idea where others are coming from, it helps my understanding

Hear ya, Palo...It's like an interactive school of all sorts.
Anyone who is intellectual honest is going to admit they've had their respective perspectives changed here and there - as well they should. We (and I) have learned something from most everyone...EXCEPT those posters who engage a forum strictly and solely for bloodsport like Klowns. Or even some of Jim Rob's SS Brownshirts. These are the anti-social jackals and parasites who should be called out, derided and ostracized.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 11:49:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1385. To: Cynicom, war, palo verde (#922)
I have to agree with blue, anyone that knew RimJob and paid attention could not but help coming away with the knowledge that he was a con artist at best.
Robinson conned hundreds of people, so you are not alone.

You see Palo?
I even concur with Cynicom on this matter with whom I disagree 90% of the time.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 11:52:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1386. To: war (#1362)
Your problem is that you've assumed a conclusion, i.e. "BOOOSH BRUNG DOWN THE TOWERS!!!" and are trying to construct a fairy tale based upon Moonbatism

You stupid assed dork, NOWHERE have I EVER said ""BOOOSH BRUNG DOWN THE TOWERS!!!", only drooling retards such as yourself have ever thought ANYONE has ever honestly said that.
What is clear is that there are MANY lies and distortions being given as the "official truth" that are simply improbable or impossible, and not only is that reason to investigate what really DID happen, but to wonder why those in the US government and the media would try to coverup what DID happen.
Might Bush have known about the plan? More than likely he was kept in the dark in terms of operational details but knew SOMETHING was going to happen, and didn't blink an eyelash when it did. More than likely Cheney was fully aware and in fact part of the operation, along with a few other high ranking members of the administration.
That is simply an observation of what they did AFTER the attacks to stifle any sort of real investigation of what happened.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 11:55:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1387. To: F16Fighter (#1385)
rimjob is a $chameleon$

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 11:55:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1388. To: bluegrass (#923)
This guy's [Rahm] Jewier:

Well, the guy's an Israel-Firster, America-Laster, a statist Commie, an anti-Capitalist, an anti-socialist, and anti-Christian....AND Enemy of the People.
IOW, Rahm possesses ZERO redeeming qualities.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 11:55:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1389. To: F16Fighter (#1388)
Rahm possesses ZERO redeeming qualities

Target practice and fertilizer?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 11:57:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1390. To: bluegrass (#1383)
Ain't it sad that some (like our friend war) NEED the voice of authority so that they can override their own common sense?

It's like trying to tell a Creationist that the world has been around a LOT longer than just 6000 years. No matter what you say or what information you give them, they call YOU a nut and assume a self-rightheous attitude.
In regards to 9/11 the authority is the television set, in terms of Creationism the authority is the pastor at the pulpit. Scientific principles and logical analysis are tossed out the window in either case.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:04:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1391. To: FormerLurker (#1382)
In other words you have no idea of what you're talking about,

It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure.

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:06:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1392. To: FormerLurker (#1382)
In other words you have no idea of what you're talking about,

It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure.
--Thomas W. Eagar, the Thomas Lord Professor of Materials Engineering and Engineering Systems, and Christopher Musso, graduate research student, are at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:07:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1393. To: bluegrass (#1383)
Ain't it sad that some (like our friend war) NEED the voice of authority so that they can override their own common sense?

I posted my source of the statement.

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:08:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1394. To: Rotara (#1387)
rimjob is a $chameleon$

Yep. The guy called Dubya Bush a coke-snortin' disaster for America back in 1999 (anybody got that exact quote by chance?), while swearing he'd NEVER back NcStain.
IOW, he's a two-faced BSer and tool with NO principles who bends over and instantly becomes what his overlords tell him to be.
Jim Robinson has proven to be nothing more than an opportunist GOP-Whore, Stalinist POS, Delusional Grand Wizard, and Olive Garden Junkie.
;-)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 12:09:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1395. To: FormerLurker (#1390)
...they call YOU a nut and assume a self-rightheous attitude.

The two marks of an irrational thought pattern trying to defend itself.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 12:10:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1396. To: FormerLurker (#1386)
What is clear is that there are MANY lies

Ye4t, oddly, you;ve been unable to pinpoint those lies and have told several of your own, e.g, no explosion INSIDE the building...the damage was pinholes...outer wall did not have vertical load responsibilities...the building had no sway...

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:10:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1397. To: bluegrass (#1395)
The two marks of an irrational thought pattern trying to defend itself.

Both of you are named Mark?

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:11:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1398. To: bluegrass (#1389)
VERY ripe fertilizer.
See? EVERYONE has their use. Even Rahmmy-Dummy-Ding-Dong.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 12:11:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1399. To: war (#1362)
Had you ever been in the towers? You could feel the sway in the upper floors. This one is the easiest of your rantings to bitch slap. The towers swayed...it 's why lateral support was so important.

You are trying to say that they swayed so much they fell. That is a lie.
You are trying to say by swaying, their center of gravity shifted and they collapsed. That is a lie.
I said that they didn't sway any more so than usual, and since there was only a slight wind that morning, any swaying was minimal. That is a factual observation.
Grow up.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:13:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1400. To: war, bluegrass (#958)
The law is what it is.

OR, rather how it's interpreted by activist (i.e. Leftist) judges.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 12:16:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1401. To: F16Fighter (#1394)
Jim Robinson has proven to be nothing more than an opportunist GOP-Whore, Stalinist POS, Delusional Grand Wizard, and Olive Garden Junkie.

You just summed-up Freeperland and it's entire existence up to this very moment.
_________________________________________________________________________
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
X-15 posted on 2009-03-26 12:16:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1402. To: F16Fighter (#1388)
Well, the guy's an Israel-Firster, America-Laster, a statist Commie, an anti-Capitalist, an anti-socialist, and anti-Christian....AND Enemy of the People.
IOW, Rahm possesses ZERO redeeming qualities.

He's the cabal's favorite mensch me thinks.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:18:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1403. To: FormerLurker (#1382)
Guess what, I'M AN ENGINEER, so believe what I say.

What field and where did you get your degree?

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-26 12:19:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1404. To: FormerLurker (#1399)
You are trying to say that they swayed so much they fell.

Nope. That is NOT what I am "saying". What I am "saying" has been documented. That the loss of lateral stability that was designed to specifically to mitigate "sway" played a role along heat et al and helped to weaken the trusses.

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:22:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1405. To: FormerLurker (#1399)
and since there was only a slight wind that morning,

Before you said that there was no wind.
Have you neen convnced otherwise?

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:23:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1406. To: F16Fighter (#1394)
He once called George Bush a 'cokehead' and then embraced him.

1999 = Jorge Boooosh bad
2000 = All Hail the Decider !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:23:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1407. To: war (#985)
My problem is that I can smell bullshit a mile away...and how I have survived in this business is in knowing when to expose it and when to ignore it and allow it's own stink to out it...

Sometimes we may not realize and admit it, but that cloud of methane is occasionally reeking from behind our own hind-quarters.
" I'm curious as to when you - and anyone else who may read this post - started posting on the web. I started in 1995 on MSN's Discuss and Debate which became Politics and Philosophy ..."
I first began posting to various forums back in 1996...and finally landed at Free Republic in 1999.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 12:23:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1408. To: F16Fighter (#1394)
Jim Robinson has proven to be nothing more than an opportunist GOP-Whore, Stalinist POS, Delusional Grand Wizard, and Olive Garden Junkie.

I asked for a refund but he ignored me. I could share rimjob stories for a straight week and not slow down.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:25:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1409. To: F16Fighter (#1400)
OR, rather how it's interpreted by activist (i.e. Leftist) judges.

That cuts both ways...and it's right wing judges who are more likey to grant legitimacy to an exercise of power by the government and leftsist judges the broadening of a right to the people.
Which would you rather have?

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:25:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1410. To: war (#1396)
Ye4t, oddly, you;ve been unable to pinpoint those lies and have told several of your own, e.g, no explosion INSIDE the building...the damage was pinholes...outer wall did not have vertical load responsibilities...the building had no sway...

You love to misrepresent my words and make some up for added effect.
Of course there was an explosion in the building, caused by explosives. Of course the was an initial fireball of jet fuel when the planes struck the towers, the wings carry the fuel and when the wings hit the tanks burst causing MOST of the fuel to ignite OUTSIDE the building. That is obvious from the photos and videos of the impacts.
The exterior walls had relatively minor damage in relation to the overall structure, and would not cause the structure to lose it's ability to support itself.
The outer wall didn't carry the brunt of the vertical load, the core supported MOST of the vertical load of the structure. The outer wall was chiefly to provide lateral support, to stabalize the vertical load, and to allow the building to distribute its load evenly across the entire structure.
If the BOTTOM of the outer wall had been demolished that might have posed a problem, but the relativly minor damage at the upper levels of the building could not and would not cause a collapse.
As far as sway, I've never said it didn't have a slight sway to it. It DID have a slight sway on very windy days, and was designed to do so. YOU however are trying to say it was swaying all over the place on 9/11 and that's what caused it to fall. There was very little wind that day for one, and any sway was minimal.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:25:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1411. To: F16Fighter (#1407)
Sometimes we may not realize and admit it, but that cloud of methane is occasionally reeking from behind our own hind-quarters.

LOL
You've got yourself a world socialist big government statist on the line there.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:25:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1412. To: FormerLurker (#1410)
You love to misrepresent my words and make some up for added effect.

Did the planes explode in inside the building?

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:26:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1413. To: war (#1405)
Before you said that there was no wind.
Have you neen convnced otherwise?

Any wind was minimal, and there are images that show instances where there was no wind.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:26:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1414. To: Rotara (#1378)

Your attempts at revisionism might fool the suckers - the fact is that you flat out shilled for the black Mussolini like a bleeding heart world socialist and it will never be forgotten, gun grabber.

Never happened. You're coming off as an even bigger lemming than JT.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-26 12:28:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1415. To: war (#1412)
Did the planes explode in inside the building?

The jet fuel ignited but didn't really explode. For there to be an explosion there has to be a confined space, so a fuel tank could explode, but the tanks had burst outside the building so no, the fuel didn't explode inside the building.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:28:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1416. To: Rotara (#1402)
He's [Rahm] the cabal's favorite mensch me thinks.

That Rahhhhhm weaseled his way into both the Klinton & Kenyan administrations as an anti-American commie subversive and Israeli citizen firster, and gotten away with as much crap as he's gotten away with (NOTHING sticks to this guy) demonstrates that he's got some major juice backing him up.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 12:29:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1417. To: Pinguinite (#1414)
Liar

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:29:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1418. To: FormerLurker (#1410)
The exterior walls had relatively minor damage in relation to the overall structure

This picture shows severance across the entire facade:

This one shows severance across most of another facade and wholly across the face of another:

Minor damage my ass...

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:31:00 ET (3 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1419. To: F16Fighter (#1416)
I can't tell if Israel runs ameriKa, if ameriKa runs Israel or if they're both taking orders from the banksters in coordinated fashion.
Hmmm

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:31:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1420. To: Rotara (#1379)
There are 2 kinds of people on 4um. Those that like Obama because they are white guilters, and those who hate Obama because they are racists.

At least that seems to be the options put forth collectively by us 4umers.

what a joke

It was a joke. 4um was pretty much a zoo then. And now it seems the animals are coming back out of their cages.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-26 12:33:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1421. To: Rotara (#1417)
Okay, prove it.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-26 12:34:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1422. To: Rotara (#1379)
For reasons that fly past me, Mr. Neil forgot to add that many here knew Obama was a socialist who would perform as advertised. Time has proven us right. It's very hard to have it both ways with people who have core principles and refuse to be suckered into the political system.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-26 12:35:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1423. To: Rotara (#1408)
I asked for a refund but he ignored me. I could share rimjob stories for a straight week and not slow down.

Huh?? JimRob IGNORED your refund request?? SHOCKING! LOL...To think - some Freepers gave him auto-access to PayPal and Debit/Credit Card accounts is scary.
Oh, we could share some stories alright - I pulled off TWO major Opuses under TWO names - both of which Rimmy finally had to shut down after he and his Mods were exposed as jerks and hypocrites.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 12:37:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1424. To: Pinguinite (#1372)
You're an absolutely clueless ass.

Neil, I'm sure some would agree that I'm an ass, but classless? You live in a freaking jungle for crying out loud.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-26 12:38:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1425. To: war (#1418)
Minor damage my ass...

RELATIVELY minor damage you idiot. Certainly nothing that could cause the tower to collapse.
BTW, you never addressed the amount of kinetic energy required to break all the undamaged floors below the damaged part of the structure. Being that you don't understand college level physics or engineering, I guess you have no clue.
SO you really should just go read some books on freshman year physics and THEN maybe you'd have an idea of how impossible it would be for the building to collapse as it did.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:38:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1426. To: Pinguinite (#1420)
And now it seems the animals are coming back out of their cages.

Yeah you're back.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:38:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1427. To: Pinguinite (#1421)
Okay, prove it.

How many times ?
It's in your posting history for anyone that wants to research it.
You and I both know the truth already, however you're a fucking L-I-A-R that would like to waste more of my time.
You made it clear that you're a gun grabbing world socialist, that didn't work and you left.
Now you're back. You still won't admit the truth.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:40:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1428. To: F16Fighter (#1423)
I haven't forgotten mi amigo.
Remember when he went all North American Union on people ?
All the while his brother is running a sweat shop in messico..

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:41:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1429. To: FormerLurker (#1415)
The jet fuel ignited but didn't really explode. For there to be an explosion there has to be a confined space, so a fuel tank could explode, but the tanks had burst outside the building so no, the fuel didn't explode inside the building.

Say "Good Night Gracie"...
Anyone who believes that there was no explosion inside that building on impact is CERTIFIABLY CALL THE TWINKIE WAGON ON THE BATPHONE nuts.
I will tell you right here and now that the LOUDEST sounds that I have ever heard in my life were the two planes exploding ON IMPACT. I was on the 27th floor of 1 Liiberty and we were pelted with all sort of materials that was blasted out of WTC 2.
There aren't even any Moonbat sites which support your contention that nothing exploded INSIDE the buildings. Then you have the problem of those inside the buildings describing the explosion INSIDE the building on impact.

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:42:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1430. To: Rotara (#1419)
I can't tell if Israel runs ameriKa, if ameriKa runs Israel or if they're both taking orders from the banksters in coordinated fashion.
Hmmm

Legit questions on certain levels...
However, I would have to go with your suggestion that it's the International Bankers pulling ALL the strings behind the curtain - especially in light of the Grandest-Larceny-Ever that we've just witnessed as trillions in (cough, bullsh*t) unspecified "bail-outs" were doled out like M&Ms.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 12:43:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1431. To: FormerLurker (#1425)
RELATIVELY minor damage you idiot.

Why I suddenly feel as if I am discussing this with:

I SEE NOSSING....NOSSING...

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:45:00 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1432. To: FormerLurker (#1425)
BTW, you never addressed the amount of kinetic energy required to break all the undamaged floors below the damaged part of the structure. Being that you don't understand college level physics or engineering, I guess you have no clue.

Uh yea, I did...and thanks for proving my suspicion that you do not read my links yet argue against them any way...

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:46:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1433. To: Rotara (#1427)

How many times ?

One time would be plenty.

It's in your posting history for anyone that wants to research it.

Indeed. Unfortunately that doesn't include you and JT. You two just want someone for target practice and I was conveniently present.

You and I both know the truth already, however you're a fucking L-I-A-R that would like to waste more of my time.

That which has no value cannot be wasted.

You made it clear that you're a gun grabbing world socialist, that didn't work and you left.

The record to the contrary is there for all to see.

Pinguinite posted on 2009-03-26 12:47:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1434. To: F16Fighter (#1430)
I would have to go with your suggestion that it's the International Bankers pulling ALL the strings behind the curtain

That's what I'm thinking.
We provide the $ and men though.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:47:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1435. To: war (#1432)
Uh yea, I did...and thanks for proving my suspicion that you do not read my links yet argue against them any way...

No you didn't. You DID admit that you don't understand basic physics and have no clue about anything written that uses big words like "center of gravity", so why don't you just shut up and give up.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:48:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1436. To: Pinguinite (#1433)
You'd make a great politician.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:48:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1437. To: F16Fighter (#1407)
Sometimes we may not realize and admit it, but that cloud of methane is occasionally reeking from behind our own hind-quarters.

NOwhere in my statement did I mean to exclude mine, mon frer...
Did you hear about the F-22 yesterday, dude?

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:49:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1438. To: war (#1429)
I will tell you right here and now that the LOUDEST sounds that I have ever heard in my life were the two planes exploding ON IMPACT.

You drooling retard, you heard them because they hit OUTSIDE the buildings and that is what you heard.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:49:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1439. To: FormerLurker (#1435)
No you didn't. You DID admit that you don't understand basic physics

Christine deleted that post.
Physics I understand, The interplay of engineering and physics I will admit is not part of the general database but I am a quick learner and when it comes to the dynamis of physics and engineering vis-a-vis the WTC, I've got a pretty good grasp on how they hver been melded in form, function and, ultimately, destruction.

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:52:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1440. To: FormerLurker (#1438)
You drooling retard, you heard them because they hit OUTSIDE the buildings and that is what you heard.

Explain all the materials that ejected from both towers.
Thanks.

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:53:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1441. To: war (#1429)
And BTW, there has to be something to explode for it to explode. The majority of the planes sliced through the buildings and were shredded as they passed through it.
THEY DIDN'T EXPLODE, and ANY EXPLOSION WAS OUTSIDE AS THE FUEL TANKS BURST. Sure there was an initial fuel fire on the impacted floors, but it's not as if C4 had been detonated, it was a FUEL FIRE that lasted several minutes.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:53:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1442. To: Rotara (#1428)
I haven't forgotten mi amigo.
Remember when he went all North American Union on people ?
All the while his brother is running a sweat shop in messico..

LOL...Aaah...YOU were one of the Freepers who had my back? Thanks bro :-)
Yep, remember JR backing the Meh-hee-cans and Jorge vs. the Minutemen...THEN banning pro-American Freepers with NO warning?? THAT was when he really jumped the shark and we KNEW he was a tool and complete phony.
His brother was exposed as exploiting Illegal labor - all the while fronting for the NAU/RINO/NWO? Geez - and this guy sill fancies himself as some kind of pro-America "conservative hero"?? Ugggh...
Jim Robinson:
BIGGEST.
FRAUD.
EVER.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 12:54:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1443. To: FormerLurker (#1441)
And BTW, there has to be something to explode for it to explode. The majority of the planes sliced through the buildings and were shredded as they passed through it.

Did you mean to shoot yourself in the foot?

war posted on 2009-03-26 12:54:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1444. To: F16Fighter (#1442)
I dare say you and I were "best friends" for years and years. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:55:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1445. To: war (#1371)
I sent several of the links from my home computer to my work computer but I just copied and pasted them so I am not sure what I have here but I based that upon an analysis I had read that was complied by an engineer who said that the force of impact and resulting damage and which caused a weight shift implied that the center o gravity of actually shifted outside of the buildings' footptint. Now, I am not an engineer so I may have misunderstood his statement. It is that statement upon which I based my statement.

So now you're denying you posted what you posted. How not surprising...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:56:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1446. To: F16Fighter (#1442)
vigilante bump

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 12:56:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1447. To: Rotara (#1434)
Yeah - Now that we're totally hijacked, America is merely NWO muscle and a printing press. UNTIL the Sheeple get a clue (if ever, and before it's TOO too late.)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 12:58:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1448. To: war (#1443)
I don't have time to waste on trolls. I've already wasted WAY too much time on you, as you are NOT trying to debate anything, you're just clinging to the "muzzies hate us for our freedom" bullshit and twist yourself into a pretzel trying to concoct versions of the events that will satisfy your concept of what happened.
I have more important things to do than to argue with an idiot.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-26 12:58:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1449. To: F16Fighter (#1447)
I don't see how those with their hands out will ever turn on their master.
That means not only is the vote fixed, it's not even viable because of self interest.
Mob Rule
The only way out is going to require bloodshed.
Wish I were wrong.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 13:01:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1450. To: war (#1437)
NOwhere in my statement did I mean to exclude mine, mon frer...
Did you hear about the F-22 yesterday, dude?

Lol, I realize we're ALL guilty of methane emissions now and then...
No, I did not hear about the F-22...Did it mistakenly drop a bomb anywhere near DC? ;-)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 13:01:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1451. To: Rotara (#1444)
I dare say you and I were "best friends" for years and years. ;-)

Really? This is like "What's My Line"!

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 13:02:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1452. To: F16Fighter (#1451)
LOL

yup

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 13:03:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1453. To: F16Fighter (#1450)
No, I did not hear about the F-22...

One augered in near Edwards...

war posted on 2009-03-26 13:03:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1454. To: Rotara (#1446)
vigilante bump

AYE!

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 13:06:07 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1455. To: war (#1453)
The F-22 test pilot went down...too bad...
It's also too bad he was about 3,000 miles from making a "statement" ;-)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 13:08:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1456. To: FormerLurker (#1445)
So now you're denying you posted what you posted. How not surprising...

That is not saying that I do not understand PHYSICS, doof.
I understand the concept of C/G and I understand how structural engineers use engineering to counter the affects of gravity which would explicate the need for a fixed center of gravity...from the way that ststement reads, it appeared to me to imply that the shifting weight loads of the impact implied that the form of the structure became IRREGULAR to its design and thus the center of gravity shifted away from its fixed point. If that is incorrect then it is incorrect. It is an observation that affects NOTHING.
It's not as if I claimed that the planes waited until after they were shred to bits as they passed through the structure and then passed outside of the structure to explode.

war posted on 2009-03-26 13:10:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1457. To: F16Fighter (#1450)
Lol, I realize we're ALL guilty of methane emissions now and then...

Dude...it powers the internet!!!!

war posted on 2009-03-26 13:11:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1458. To: F16Fighter (#1455)
It did not release any details of the accident, including whether Cooley attempted to eject.

I am fascinated with piloting aircraft and my childhood dream was to be an astronaut [in fact, some people INSIST that I am a real spaceman.]
Anyway, I've read in several places that test pilots are loathe to eject and go through a process of "I'll try 'A'...I'll try 'B'..." etc etc etc trying to define the equipment to the envelope.

war posted on 2009-03-26 13:15:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1459. To: Rotara (#1449)
I don't see how those with their hands out will ever turn on their master.
That means not only is the vote fixed, it's not even viable because of self interest.
Mob Rule
The only way out is going to require bloodshed.
Wish I were wrong.

Spot on assessment of the situation...
(and I wish you were wrong as well)

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 13:16:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1460. To: war (#1457)
Dude...it powers the internet!!!!

D@am...We could even power CITIES!! And dump (pun intended) OPEC!!
Oh...and no wonder my laptop battery NEVER runs out while I'm posting!

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 13:18:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1461. To: FormerLurker (#1413)
Any wind was minimal, and there are images that show instances where there was no wind.

Post it...

war posted on 2009-03-26 13:19:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1462. To: war (#1439)
Christine deleted that post

what post are you referring to? i don't recall deleting any posts.

christine posted on 2009-03-26 13:21:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1463. To: F16Fighter (#1459)
you have email

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 13:27:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1464. To: war (#1458)
Either the pilot's ejection system malfunctioned, OR the guy too low to eject. OR even many of the F-22's components were made in China, ergo a piece of crap.
You an space-nut? I'd have never guessed ;-) Ever hand-glide?
Nope, and who can blame test pilots for shying away from hitting the buffet table of what may or may not be safe equipment.

Liberator posted on 2009-03-26 13:27:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1465. To: F16Fighter (#1464)
Ever hand-glide?

FOFLOL !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 13:29:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1466. To: FormerLurker, war, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, all (#1386)
What is clear is that there are MANY lies and distortions being given as the "official truth" that are simply improbable or impossible, and not only is that reason to investigate what really DID happen, but to wonder why those in the US government and the media would try to coverup what DID happen.

Exactly. We do not have to have a complete solution to know that the Official Fairy Tale is contradicted by multiple documented datums and is thus not the correct solution. Without even getting heated about it we can point out the contradictions in the players who were trained at U.S. Fedgov installations, the known incompetence of the pilots, the stand down of NORAD and their inability to intercept (or so they say) ANY of the 4 aircraft, the failure of even one of the 4 aircraft to transmit the 4 digit hijack code (which takes about 2 to 3 seconds),the transfer of monies from the CIA connected Pakistani ISI to Mohammed Atta, the presence of Thermate residue on girders from the towers, the fact that the structural steel was protected from examination by ARMED GUARDS, and the list goes on to several hundred to several thousand anomalies all of which contradict the Official Fairy Tale.
This is even before we get to the government obstructionism and prevention of an honest review and analysis of the data:
A Fema Report which has had to be revised and re-explained because it has been shredded and is little better than a laughingstock.
NIST, which has several top experts on nano-thermates, which has refused to consider and has steadfastly avoided examining the residue. They had to invent an entirely new physics to try to explain away Building 7's collapse - which is laughed at everywhere but the controlled U.S. Media.
The firing of an environmental scientist at Underwriter Laboratories for pointing out that the structural steel in the towers had been certified for higher temperatures, by UL, than were known to have occurred in the towers.
Professor Stephen Jones' work on the physics of the collapses and chemical analysis of thermate residues. (Which resulted in massive heat on BYU, where he was a well respected Professor of Physics, and he was forced out with a Golden Handshake). His work was repudiated by Administrators but not the faculty who turned out in his support. (BYU has a lot of programs dependent on FEDGOV funding.)
The Popular Mechanics Hit Piece which has been shredded, shown to be false, and which used doctored photographs, misrepresented as Bldg. 7 but were actually of Bldg. 6 but had been reoriented, to try to push the cover legend.
I could go on for several pages on the anomalies surrounding 911. Take for example the famous Dancing Troupe from Israel - "The Dancing Israelis" who were set up and photographing the towers BEFORE their collapse. In fact the reports seem to indicate they were setting up BEFORE the first plane hit.
Then their was the e-mail warning to employees of Odigo, an Israeli owned company, warning them to stay away from the towers that morning.
The more layers of the cover story you peel back the more that onion disappears as the chimera it is.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 13:30:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1467. To: Rotara, christine, war (#1465)
Ping to my above. Lets see how war tries to explain this one away. He will, that is absolutely predictable, or ignore it as too hot to touch.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 13:33:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1468. To: Original_Intent (#1466)
They had to invent an entirely new physics to try to explain away Building 7's collapse - which is laughed at everywhere but the controlled U.S. Media.

The suspension of belief is required to accept any of it, but especially building 7.
*ESPECIALLY* 7.
The fairy tale believers won't even touch it no matter how many times the evidence is put before them.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 13:34:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1469. To: Original_Intent (#1466)
The firing of an environmental scientist at Underwriter Laboratories for pointing out that the structural steel in the towers had been certified for higher temperatures, by UL, than were known to have occurred in the towers.

Does he have a website by chance ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 13:35:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1470. To: Original_Intent (#1466)
(BYU has a lot of programs dependent on FEDGOV funding.)

To hell with the truth - SHOW ME DAH DOLLAHS !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 13:36:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1471. To: Original_Intent (#1466)
the transfer of monies from the CIA connected Pakistani ISI to Mohammed Atta

They won't touch that one either.
It's not pride that causes these tools to carry on with the fairy tale - it's an agenda.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 13:37:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1472. To: Original_Intent (#1466)
The Popular Mechanics Hit Piece which has been shredded, shown to be false, and which used doctored photographs, misrepresented as Bldg. 7 but were actually of Bldg. 6 but had been reoriented, to try to push the cover legend.

grrr

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 13:39:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1473. To: Original_Intent (#1466)
the stand down of NORAD and their inability to intercept (or so they say) ANY of the 4 aircraft, the failure of even one of the 4 aircraft to transmit the 4 digit hijack code (which takes about 2 to 3 seconds),

that's enough for me right there not to believe the Official Story.

christine posted on 2009-03-26 13:49:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1474. To: Rotara, war, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, FormerLurker, all (#1468)
No matter how they try Building 7 is the one element for which no Official Fairy Tale has ever come close to explaining and they won't touch the obvious conclusion observable in the physical data i.e., it was "pulled". Explosive demolition is the only hypothesis that accounts for ALL of the data known about the collapse of Building 7.
One need only look at it objectively:
The building's collapse was symmetrical i.e., it collapsed at all points in 360 degrees simultaneously.
Viewing the films you can slow it down and watch it in slow motion and note that the first cracks appear simultaneously along two lines along the reinforced central core and then the building proceeds to collapse in on itself and neatly into its own footprint.
The building's collapse from initiation to completion took 6.6 seconds. A pure freefall from the buildings top, say if you dropped a Bowling Ball, is 6 seconds. So, the obvious conclusion is that the structure offered little or no resistance to the collapse of the structure. The only way that occurs is if the underlying structure is removed and the only way you do that is with explosives.
So you have the following signature items:
Symmetrical Collapse in 360 degrees.
It fell at an effectively freefall rate.
The rubble accumulated in the footprint of the structure.
These are all signatures of an explosive demolition not of a catastrophic collapse. If one studies the history of catastrophic collapse one finds that there is always a first failure point and that the failure is not uniform throughout the structure. Having a first failure point the structure fails, collapses, in the direction of the weak point not uniformly in 360 degrees nor symmetrically.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 13:50:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1475. To: Rotara (#1469)
Does he have a website by chance ?

Don't know. I forget his name but you could use this search string an likely pull it up:
UL 911 Scientist Fired steel.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 13:53:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1476. To: Original_Intent (#1466)
Professor Stephen Jones' work on the physics of the collapses and chemical analysis of thermate residues. (Which resulted in massive heat on BYU

Where did Jones get his samples, Moonie?

war posted on 2009-03-26 13:55:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1477. To: christine (#1473)
the stand down of NORAD and their inability to intercept (or so they say) ANY of the 4 aircraft, the failure of even one of the 4 aircraft to transmit the 4 digit hijack code (which takes about 2 to 3 seconds),
that's enough for me right there not to believe the Official Story.

That was what first alerted me that all was not as represented. I was in the military and I know how stuff like this operates. NORAD does not Stand Down like this during an emergency. If they were as incompetent as misrepresented the Officers in charge should have been Courts Martialed. However, they were not. That in and of itself is an interesting datum. In fact NO ONE INDIVIDUAL has ever been Courts Martialed or Fired for 911. "But Holmes the dog did not bark in the night" "Exactly Watson, and that is what is curious."
As well one could assume that the "hijackers" were able to get into the cockpit fast enough on one aircraft to prevent the transmission of the hijack code, but in all 4? Give me a break. The only way that happens is by tampering with the Avionics system which requires both skills and access the "hijackers" did not have.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 13:59:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1478. To: Original_Intent (#1466)
The firing of an environmental scientist at Underwriter Laboratories for pointing out that the structural steel in the towers had been certified for higher temperatures, by UL, than were known to have occurred in the towers.

U:L does not certify structural steel.
UL does not certify structural steel, such as the beams, columns and trusses used in World Trade Center," said Paul M. Baker, the company's spokesman.

war posted on 2009-03-26 14:12:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1479. To: war, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, tom007, litus, christine, all (#1476)
Professor Stephen Jones' work on the physics of the collapses and chemical analysis of thermate residues. (Which resulted in massive heat on BYU
Where did Jones get his samples, Moonie?

You have learned your lessons well young Sith. When all else fails - lie by implication and attack the messenger while avoiding any substance.
Uh, war old buddy? Your schtick is wearing pretty thin. At this point you are pretty well outed as a paid disinfo shill. You exhibit all the hallmarks and use all the tactics of a professional disinformationist.
The only question remaining is: Who do you work for?
Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation
3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact.
5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 14:12:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1480. To: Original_Intent (#1479)
Where did Jones get his samples, Moonie?

war posted on 2009-03-26 14:14:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1481. To: Original_Intent (#1477)
As well one could assume that the "hijackers" were able to get into the cockpit fast enough on one aircraft to prevent the transmission of the hijack code, but in all 4? Give me a break. The only way that happens is by tampering with the Avionics system which requires both skills and access the "hijackers" did not have.

good information. thank you.

christine posted on 2009-03-26 14:14:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1482. To: war (#1478)
The firing of an environmental scientist at Underwriter Laboratories for pointing out that the structural steel in the towers had been certified for higher temperatures, by UL, than were known to have occurred in the towers.
U:L does not certify structural steel.
UL does not certify structural steel, such as the beams, columns and trusses used in World Trade Center," said Paul M. Baker, the company's spokesman.

Nice bit of weasel wording that.
UL tested the steel to insure that it met the represented ASTM standard.
So, while you can play with semantics the underlying datum is true and correct. The steel was tested which is the point you carefully avoided.
4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
Example: When trying to defeat reports by the Times of London that spy-sat images reveal an object racing towards and striking flight 800, a straw man is used. The disinformationalist, later identified as having worked for Naval Intelligence, simply stated: 'If these images exist, the public has not seen them. Why? They don't exist, and never did. You have no evidence and thus, your entire case falls flat.'
Proper response: 'You are avoiding the issue with disinformation tactics. You imply deceit and deliberately establish an impossible and unwarranted test. It is perfectly natural that the public has not seen them, nor will they for some considerable time, if ever. To produce them would violate national security with respect to intelligence gathering capabilities and limitations, and you should know this. Why do you refuse to address the issues with such disinformation tactics (rule 4 - use a straw man)?'
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 14:21:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1483. To: christine (#1481)
You are most welcome.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 14:22:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1484. To: Original_Intent (#1477)
As well one could assume that the "hijackers" were able to get into the cockpit fast enough on one aircraft to prevent the transmission of the hijack code, but in all 4?

In all four, the flight decks were taken by force and the crew immediately attacked...feel free to wax eloquently as to how they could defend themsleves AND type in the hikjack code.
Thanks.

war posted on 2009-03-26 14:25:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1485. To: Original_Intent (#1482)
UL tested the steel to insure that it met the represented ASTM standard.

Then you should hve no problem posting a primary source.
Thanks.
ON the oth rhand, there is this:
UL did not certify any steel as suggested. In fact, in U.S. practice, steel is not certified at all; rather structural assemblies are tested for their fire resistance rating in accordance with a standard procedure such as ASTM E 119 (see NCSTAR 1-6B). That the steel was “certified ... to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit for six hours” is simply not true.

war posted on 2009-03-26 14:28:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1486. To: Original_Intent (#1479)
Still waiting: Where did Jones get his samples, Moonie?

war posted on 2009-03-26 14:29:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1487. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#1474)
The building's collapse from initiation to completion took 6.6 seconds.

You need to phone home for new instructions, ET.
(BNN - May 19, 2007 - New York, NY) - In the first candid admission on record by a 9/11 Truth Movement leader of being wrong, Steven Jones (above, left) admitted today that he and other 9/11 researchers "screwed up on the collapse time of WTC 7. We blew it."
For years, Jones and others have claimed that WTC 7 collapsed in 6.5 seconds, nearly free fall speed....
Responding to the overnight controversy, Steven Jones announced this morning that WTC 7 did indeed take over 13 seconds to collapse.
"We screwed up. We had never seen the CBS video when we claimed that it took WTC 7 6.5 seconds to collapse. We only relied on the street video that does not show the Penthouses. By the time we saw the CBS video, we had so much invested in the 6.5-second collapse time, we could not disappoint our supporters who were successfully using the 6.5 free fall time to push 9/11 Truth. We just ignored the evidence.

war posted on 2009-03-26 14:38:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1488. To: Original_Intent (#1466)
Then their was the e-mail warning to employees of Odigo, an Israeli owned company, warning them to stay away from the towers that morning.

The Odiga Myth

war posted on 2009-03-26 14:43:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1489. To: Rotara (#1487)
Hey YipYap....read the above about 7 and weep.

war posted on 2009-03-26 14:57:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1490. To: christine (#1462)
what post are you referring to? i don't recall deleting any posts.

/sarcasm...
Sorry....

war posted on 2009-03-26 15:27:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1491. To: war (#1488)
www.haaretz.com/hasen/pag...mNo=77744&contrassID=/has
Odigo says workers were warned of attack
Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.
Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.
"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don't know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya.
As an instant messaging service, Odigo users are not limited to sending messages only to people on their "buddy" list, as is the case with ICQ, the other well-known Israeli instant messaging application.
Odigo usually zealously protects the privacy of its registered users, said Macover, but in this case the company took the initiative to provide the law enforcement services with the originating Internet Presence address of the message, so the FBI could track down the Internet Service Provider, and the actual sender of the original message.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 15:31:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1492. To: bluegrass (#1491)
Odigo Vice President of Sales and Marketing... Alex Diamandis today in a telephone interview also said the warning message did not identify the World Trade Center as the attack target.

war posted on 2009-03-26 15:37:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1493. To: All (#1491)
The CEO said differently:
"...Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.
"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right."
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 15:39:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1494. To: war (#1493)
Oops. See above.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 15:42:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1495. To: bluegrass (#1493)
Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting ~~the~~ an attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting ~~the~~ an attack.
~snip~
Amazing how you can be so easily manipulated by the very media you purport to loathe.

war posted on 2009-03-26 15:44:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1496. To: war (#1495)
So now you're Winston Smith?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-26 15:45:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1497. To: bluegrass (#1496)
So now you're Winston Smith?

As long as I'm not Parsons [that bloody fool]...

war posted on 2009-03-26 15:52:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1498. To: F16Fighter (#1455)
The F-22 test pilot went down...too bad...

Was he one of those military guys who signed the Birther protest documents, challenging the eligibility of our Negro-In-Chief?
Somebody better check. ;)

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-26 17:41:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1499. To: war (#1488) (Edited)
"The CBS video demonstrates that internal collapses were taking place in WTC 7 before the entire structure fell. The 9/11 Truth Movement could have argued that bombs were going off inside of WTC 7 to weaken the structure so structure collapse could take place, just like internal explosives are set off to cause a structure collapse in real controlled demolitions. Instead, they adamantly argue that no internal collapse took place before the building collapsed. Isn't that strange?"

I'm glad I lurked for awhile today, I usually just log in and miss you stupid fucking bozo fairy tale world socialist shills.
I don't subscribe to everything, only what I know. I know this guy told the truth (you can skip the truth by not watching his 'tube eyewitness account below because we both, you and I, know you're full of s#it), I know he was threatened to recant, and I know shortly thereafter his interview to the BBC he's dead at 53.
FUCK YOU you MURDERING LITTLE COCK SUCKING HIPPIE.
You can bet your ass there were internal explosions you little peckerwood.

And you're more on bozo than ever before, fukktard, so don't expect me to waste my time looking for your response = BOZO.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 19:28:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1500. To: All (#1499)
fit teen hunnerd

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 19:29:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1501. To: bluegrass, Rotara, christine, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, litus, war, all (#1493)
The CEO said differently:
"...Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.
"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right."

At this point it should be pretty obvious that "war" is a professional disinformation poster. He/she/it uses all the tricks of the disinformation poster:
Personal attacks i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem .
Selective response i.e., Strawman Argument
Red Herring i.e., demanding complete solutions, impossible proofs, and other diversionary tactics.
No, as Cardinal Spellman commented: "if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I call it a duck".
war uses most of the "tips and tricks" found listed in Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation . He really does quack me up.
One other that I've observed over time with 911 disinfo trolls: They will never, never, never, under any circumstances admit the validity of even the most minute fact in contradiction to the Official Fairy Tale. To do so of course would result in the complete destruction of their position by any able debater, because once they admit any one contrary fact they admit that the Official Fairy Tale has a hole in it, which in turn means that it is not a complete explanation, and thus an incomplete theory.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 20:07:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1502. To: Original_Intent (#1501) (Edited)
At this point it should be pretty obvious that "war" is a professional disinformation poster.

I'm batting 1.00 / it must be game time. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 20:10:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1503. To: Rotara (#1502)
And now entering the line-up ... ;-)
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 20:23:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1504. To: Original_Intent (#1503)
I'll take our starting lineup any day of the week and twice on Thursdays !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-26 20:37:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1505. To: Original_Intent (#1479)
When all else fails - lie by implication and attack the messenger while avoiding any substance....

I've noticed that modus operandi....

litus posted on 2009-03-26 20:38:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1506. To: Original_Intent (#1501)
"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right."

So, has there been confirmation that a text message was actually sent?

litus posted on 2009-03-26 20:41:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1507. To: litus (#1506)
While I don't have any links handy there have been multiple confirmations of the Odigo messages. If you're curious they should be able to easily be found using a good search engine. I reccomend Scroogle.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 21:07:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1508. To: Original_Intent (#1507)
multiple confirmations of the Odigo messages

Interesting; I never heard of that one before. Thanks for the scroogle link. I'll add that to my search engines bookmark.

litus posted on 2009-03-26 21:10:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1509. To: Original_Intent (#1501)
One other that I've observed over time with 911 disinfo trolls: They will never, never, never, under any circumstances admit the validity of even the most minute fact in contradiction to the Official Fairy Tale.

i've made that observation also.

christine posted on 2009-03-26 21:20:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1510. To: Original_Intent (#1507)
Of interest....by googling (not scroogling) "Internet Firm Received Message Predicting Terror Attacks in US" (allegedly the title of a Deutsche Presse-Agentur (Hamburg) headline on this), I come up with only 8 results. With scroogle, I get 9 results...That's more than unusually low.

It's like it's been scrubbed from the Internet...IF that was actually the headline (which I will believe it is unless someone proves otherwise).

litus posted on 2009-03-26 21:28:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1511. To: war, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, Rotara, Wudidiz, tom007, litus, bluegrass, all (#1487)
The building's collapse from initiation to completion took 6.6 seconds.
You need to phone home for new instructions, ET.
(BNN - May 19, 2007 - New York, NY) - In the first candid admission on record by a 9/11 Truth Movement leader of being wrong, Steven Jones (above, left) admitted today that he and other 9/11 researchers "screwed up on the collapse time of WTC 7. We blew it."
For years, Jones and others have claimed that WTC 7 collapsed in 6.5 seconds, nearly free fall speed....
Responding to the overnight controversy, Steven Jones announced this morning that WTC 7 did indeed take over 13 seconds to collapse.
"We screwed up. We had never seen the CBS video when we claimed that it took WTC 7 6.5 seconds to collapse. We only relied on the street video that does not show the Penthouses. By the time we saw the CBS video, we had so much invested in the 6.5-second collapse time, we could not disappoint our supporters who were successfully using the 6.5 free fall time to push 9/11 Truth. We just ignored the evidence.

Delightfully dishonest ploy there - which took all of about 2 seconds to spot. Conflating the collapse time of the twin towers with time to collapse of WTC 7 is a comparison of unlike items. Whatever time it took for the towers collapse is irrelevant to the time to collapse for WTC 7.
Anyone can take a stopwatch and measure it for themselves. The video is readily available (where it hasn't been scrubbed). It takes approximately 6.6 seconds (that is O.6 seconds greater than a pure freefall) for WTC 7 to collapse. From the time the cracks appear in the facade as shown in the street level video to the time the structure collapses, implodes, neatly, symmetrically, in 360 degrees, into its own footprint is about 6.6 seconds. Even if you add another second or two for the penthouse the rate of collapse is impossibly fast for a normal structural failure. You are clutching at straws to avoid the conclusion demonstrated to anyone with eyes, brains, and a stopwatch - WTC 7 was collapsed via explosive demolition. Even adding a second or two does not take away from the visible and obvious evidence i.e., that the structure collapsed uniformly, symmetrically, in 360 degrees into its own footprint.
This is without taking into consideration the fact that the core of the building, as in the towers, was a massive interlaced network of heavy steel girders which had been further hardened and reinforced by Rudy Ghouliani to be the NYC command center in the event of a major natural castrophe.
Adding further circumstantial data:
Rudy Ghouliani admitted in a press conference that they had evacuated at least 6 hours ahead of the collapse.
CNN reported the collapse was imminent an hour before it happened.
The BBC reported it had collapsed a half an hour before it did - the Reporterette giving the report was filmed with it still standing in the background. The BBC scrubbed the video and then tried to deny its existence but too many people had already downloaded copies and so they were forced to backtrack.
You could probably sell your Schlock on Freeptard Republic but it is no sale here.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 21:33:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1512. To: Original_Intent, war (#1511)
Whatever time it took for the towers collapse is irrelevant to the time to collapse for WTC 7.
This is without taking into consideration the fact that the core of the building, as in the towers, was a massive interlaced network of heavy steel girders which had been further hardened and reinforced by Rudy Ghouliani to be the NYC command center in the event of a major natural castrophe.
Adding further circumstantial data:
Rudy Ghouliani admitted in a press conference that they had evacuated at least 6 hours ahead of the collapse.
You could probably sell your Schlock on Freeptard Republic but it is no sale here.

Agreed.

litus posted on 2009-03-26 21:36:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1513. To: Original_Intent (#1511)
I recall, some time ago, reading about construction work, shutting down streets, adjacent to the WTC just the week prior to 9/11.
Can't find anything at the moment while searching for it.
Do you recall reading about this "coincidence"??

litus posted on 2009-03-26 21:43:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1514. To: Jethro Tull, PINGUINITE, freepatriot32 (#1330)
First, you haven't a clue how freely I live, and second, the absurd lifestyle you lived here put a big fat target on your back, and for what? You never had a dime, so taxes wasn't an issue. And as far as driving? People need licenses, as you found out, ya' silly thing.

I do believe that driving is a right and not a 'govt granted privilege' as the socialists always insist. However, given the current state of affairs the jackboots will impound your car if you don't comply with the states paper requirements. I admire anyone who fights for the right to drive without a 'license'. These are some notes from when I was on with Badnarik http://libertyfight.741.com/gcn.html -----------------------------------
RECOMMENDED READING:

Catherine Crier: The Case Against lawyers
Why Lawyers are the Scum of the Earth!
WOE UNTO YOU, LAWYERS!
BY FRED RODELL
Professor of Law, Yale University
Written in 1939
Also IN RTF FORMAT

HERE IS A A REVIEW OF PROFESSOR RODELL'S BOOK, BY JOHN RAKER

HelpIGotATicket.com: YOU GOT A TRAFFIC TICKET OUT OF CALIFORNIA
DRIVING AS A RIGHT
Is Driving a Right or a Privilege?
Aid & Abet Newsletter
"U.S. Courts affirm that Citizens have the right to travel freely on the public right of way".

Driving on American Roads is a Constitutional Right, not a State-Granted 'Privledge'
By Richard James McDonald

Driving is a Right - Not a Privilege
By Ed Haas. [GREAT ARTICLE, I highly recommend it. M.H.
March 31, 2004 -- If ever a judge understood the public's right to use the public roads, it was Justice Tolman of the Supreme Court of the State of Washington. Justice Tolman stated: "Complete freedom of the highways is so old and well established a blessing that we have forgotten the days of the Robber Barons and toll roads, and yet, under an act like this, arbitrarily administered, the highways may be completely monopolized, if, through lack of interest, the people submit, then they may look to see the most sacred of their liberties taken from them one by one, by more or less rapid encroachment." Robertson vs. Department of Public Works, 180 Wash 133, 147.

"Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them." Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491.
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. 486, 489.
"There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional Rights." Snerer vs. Cullen, 481 F. 946. XXStreets and highways are established and maintained for the purpose of travel and transportation by the public. Such travel may be for business or pleasure.
"The use of the highways for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common and fundamental Right of which the public and the individual cannot be rightfully deprived." [Emphasis added] Chicago Motor Coach vs. Chicago, 169 NE 22; Ligare vs. Chicago, 28 NE 934; Boon vs. Clark, 214 SSW 607; 25 Am.Jur. (1st) Highways Sect.163.

...

Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
Artisan posted on 2009-03-26 22:18:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1515. To: Original_Intent (#1511)
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm

Bush-Linked Company Handled Security for the WTC, Dulles and United by Margie Burns

George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.
The security company, formerly named Securacom and now named Stratesec, is in Sterling, Va.. Its CEO, Barry McDaniel, said the company had a ``completion contract" to handle some of the security at the World Trade Center ``up to the day the buildings fell down."

litus posted on 2009-03-26 23:15:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1516. To: litus (#1513)
There was a report, uncorroborated, by a Scott Forbes that the systems power had been taken down on the South Tower on the weekend of 9/8 - 9/9. I seem to recall something about the streets but I don't have any links.
Something that has surfaced recently is the sprayable nano-thermate. It seems that some re-fireproofing was done in 1999. Nano-thermate is nano-sized particles which could easily be mixed into a solution and sprayed on as "fire proofing". It not only burns at extremely hot temperatures it detonates i.e., explodes. One of the interesting curiosities is that the central girders of the towers were "sectioned" into approximately 40 foot lenghts. If you wanted to collapse a steel structure thermate - particularly nano-thermate sprayed on under the pretext of "fireproofing" provides a vehicle for installing the demolition charges right under the nose of people with neither them nor the people installing it knowing what was going on. I mention that last because one of the strawmen the shills frequently use is to say that "a conspiracy this big couldn't be kept quiet because too many people would know". Not if they were spraying explosives when they thought they were spraying fireproofing. The reality is that many large scale operations have been kept very quiet and when you have a controlled media they don't ask the key questions.
--------------------------------------------------------
The Top Ten Connections Between NIST and Nano-Thermites Kevin R. Ryan, 7-02-08 “Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? … NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.” NIST Responses to FAQs, August 2006
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has had considerable difficulty determining a politically correct sequence of events for the unprecedented destruction of three World Trade Center (WTC) buildings on 9/11 (Douglas 2006, Ryan 2006, Gourley 2007). But despite a number of variations in NIST’s story, it never considered explosives or pyrotechnic materials in any of its hypotheses. This omission is at odds with several other striking facts; first, the requirement of the national standard for fire investigation (NFPA 921), which calls for testing related to thermite and other pyrotechnics, and second, the extensive experience NIST investigators have with explosive and thermite materials. One of the most intriguing aspects of NIST’s diversionary posture has been their total lack of interest in explosive or pyrotechnic features in their explanations. Despite the substantial evidence for the use of explosives at the WTC (Jones 2006, Legge and Szamboti 2007), and the extensive expertise in explosives among NIST investigators (Ryan 2007), explosives were never considered in the NIST WTC investigation. Only after considerable criticism of this fact did NIST deign to add one small disclaimer to their final report on the towers, suggesting they found no evidence for explosives
These inexplicable fires are a reminder that the WTC buildings were not simply demolished, but were demolished in a deceptive way. That is, the buildings were brought down so as to make it look like the impact of the planes and the resulting fires might have caused their unprecedented, symmetrical destruction. Therefore, shaped charges and other typical explosive configurations were likely used, but there was more to it than that. Those committing the crimes needed to create fire where it would not have existed otherwise, and draw attention toward the part of the buildings where the planes impacted (or in the case of WTC 7, away from the building altogether).
This was most probably accomplished through the use of nano-thermites, which are hightech energetic materials made by mixing ultra fine grain (UFG) aluminum and UFG metal oxides; usually iron oxide, molybdenum oxide or copper oxide, although other compounds can be used (Prakash 2005, Rai 2005). The mixing is accomplished by adding these reactants to a liquid solution where they form what are called “sols”, and then adding a gelling agent that captures these tiny reactive combinations in their intimately mixed state (LLNL 2000). The resulting “sol-gel” is then dried to form a porous reactive material that can be ignited in a number of ways. The high surface area of the reactants within energetic sol-gels allows for the far higher rate of energy release than is seen in “macro” thermite mixtures, making nano-thermites “high explosives” as well as pyrotechnic materials (Tillitson et al 1999). Sol-gel nanothermites, are often called energetic nanocomposites, metastable intermolecular composites (MICs) or superthermite (COEM 2004, Son et al 2007), and silica is often used to create the porous, structural framework (Clapsaddle et al 2004, Zhao et al 2004). Nano-thermites have also been made with RDX (Pivkina et al 2004), and with thermoplastic elastomers (Diaz et al 2003). But it is important to remember that, despite the name, nano-thermites pack a much bigger punch than typical thermite materials. It turns out that explosive, sol-gel nano-thermites were developed by US government scientists, at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories (LLNL) (Tillitson et al 1998, Gash et al 2000, Gash et al 2002). These LLNL scientists reported that -- “The sol-gel process is very amenable to dip-, spin-, and spray-coating technologies to coat surfaces. We have utilized this property to dip-coat various substrates to make sol-gel Fe,O,/ Al / Viton coatings. The energetic coating dries to give a nice adherent film. Preliminary experiments indicate that films of the hybrid material are self-propagating when ignited by thermal stimulus” (Gash et al 2002). The amazing correlation between floors of impact and floors of apparent failure suggests
Regardless of how thermite materials were installed in the WTC, it is strange that NIST has been so blind to any such possibility. In fact, when reading NIST’s reports on the WTC, and its periodic responses to FAQs from the public, one might get the idea that no one in the NIST organization had ever heard of nano-thermites before. But the truth is, many of the scientists and organizations involved in the NIST WTC investigation were
not only well aware of nano-thermites, they actually had considerable connection to, and in some cases expertise in, this exact technology. Here are the top ten reasons why nano-thermites, and nano-thermite coatings, should have come to mind quickly for the NIST WTC investigators. Forman Williams, the lead engineer on NIST’s advisory committee, and the most prominent engineering expert for Popular Mechanics, is an expert on the deflagration of energetic materials and the “ignition of porous energetic materials”(Margolis and Williams 1996, Telengator et al 1998, Margolis and Williams 1999). Nano-thermites are porous energetic materials. Additionally, Williams’ research partner, Stephen Margolis, has presented at conferences where nano-energetics are the focus (Gordon 1999). Some of Williams’ other colleagues at the University of California San Diego, like David J. Benson, are also experts on nano-thermite materials (Choi et al 2005, Jordan et al 2007). 3. Science Applications International (SAIC) is the DOD and Homeland Security contractor that supplied the largest contingent of non-governmental investigators to the NIST WTC investigation. SAIC has extensive links to nano-thermites, developing and judging nano-thermite research proposals for the military and other military contractors, and developing and formulating nano-thermites directly (Army 2008, DOD 2007). SAIC’s subsidiary Applied Ordnance Technology has done research on the ignition of nanothermites with lasers (Howard et al 2005).
In any case, it is important for those seeking the truth about 9/11 to consider what organizations and people had access to the technologies that were used to accomplish the deceptive demolition of the WTC buildings. It is also important to recognize the links between those who had access to the technologies, those who had access to the buildings, and those who produced the clearly false official reports. To that end we should note that NIST had considerable connections to nano-thermites, both before and during the WTC investigation. It is therefore inexplicable why NIST did not consider such materials as an explanation for the fires that burned on 9/11, and long afterward at Ground Zero. This fact would not be inexplicable, of course, if those managing the NIST investigation knew to not look, or test, for such materials
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 23:35:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1517. To: Original_Intent (#1516)
It is also important to recognize the links between those who had access to the technologies, those who had access to the buildings, and those who produced the clearly false official reports. To that end we should note that NIST had considerable connections to nano-thermites, both before and during the WTC investigation. It is therefore inexplicable why NIST did not consider such materials as an explanation for the fires that burned on 9/11, and long afterward at Ground Zero. This fact would not be inexplicable, of course, if those managing the NIST investigation knew to not look, or test, for such materials

Yep, I remember reading about this, too.
It's a shame that the "investigators" decided not to thoroughly investigate this crime scene....they may have actually found some criminals.

litus posted on 2009-03-26 23:42:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1518. To: litus (#1515)
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm
Bush-Linked Company Handled Security for the WTC, Dulles and United by Margie Burns
George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.
The security company, formerly named Securacom and now named Stratesec, is in Sterling, Va.. Its CEO, Barry McDaniel, said the company had a ``completion contract" to handle some of the security at the World Trade Center ``up to the day the buildings fell down."

The "Coincidence Theorists" will of course pooh-pooh it. I was aware of the connection though. It is interesting though to look at all the coincidences:
Marvin Bush on the Board of Securacom.
Orrin Hatch telling the press on the Capital Steps, on the evening of 911, that it just had to be the work of the dastardly ~~Fu Manchu~~ Osama Ben Goldstein.
FEMA disaster people flying into town the day before.
An exercise involving multiple simultaneous hijackings is scheduled and run the morning of 911 - while the "hijackers" are in the air.
The chief NIST Investigator is an expert on Nano-Thermites but NIST will not examine the residue for Nano-Thermites.
Hundreds of millions in Stock and Options trading the week before 911 on the airlines involved.
Lots of coincidences.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 23:46:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1519. To: Original_Intent (#1518)
Lots of coincidences.

too many to be believed as coincidental.

the probability of this many coincidences is mathematically impossible prior to such a catastrophic event!

litus posted on 2009-03-26 23:49:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1520. To: litus (#1517)
It's a shame that the "investigators" decided not to thoroughly investigate this crime scene....they may have actually found some criminals.

When the investigation is controlled by the perpetrators of the crime one can be sure that they are not going to hang themselves.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 23:51:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1521. To: Original_Intent (#1520)
You're right; and that's about the only thing that makes sense with their investigation

litus posted on 2009-03-26 23:52:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1522. To: litus (#1519)
the probability of this many coincidences is mathematically impossible prior to such a catastrophic event!

Not to the believing mind of the "Coincidence Theorist". Everything bad in the whole wide world occurs "coincidentally".
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 23:52:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1523. To: Original_Intent (#1522)
the "Coincidence Theorist": Everything bad in the whole wide world occurs "coincidentally".

LOLOL!!!

litus posted on 2009-03-26 23:55:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1524. To: Original_Intent (#1511)
Even if you add another second or two for the penthouse the rate of collapse is impossibly fast for a normal structural failure.

duh!

christine posted on 2009-03-27 0:33:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1525. To: christine (#1524)
Pungent and to the point. ;-)
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-27 0:57:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1526. To: Original_Intent (#1525)
laughing....

christine posted on 2009-03-27 1:14:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1527. To: Original_Intent (#1511)
Rudy Ghouliani admitted in a press conference that they had evacuated at least 6 hours ahead of the collapse.

Hey Chucklenutz...lower Manhattan was a war zone...just about everyone who hadn't split by the time that the Towers collapsed and who wasn't a responder split when the Towers collapsed.
Delightfully dishonest ploy there - which took all of about 2 seconds to spot. Conflating the collapse time of the twin towers with time to collapse of WTC 7 is a comparison of unlike items. Whatever time it took for the towers collapse is irrelevant to the time to collapse for WTC 7.
What the fuck are you babbling about, Chuklenutz? Your boy admitted that his collapse time for WTC 7 was 1/2 of what it should be. The Twin Towers had NOTHING to do with that.

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:00:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1528. To: Original_Intent (#1511)
CNN reported the collapse was imminent an hour before it happened.
The BBC reported it had collapsed a half an hour before it did

And Fox News reported that the British had taken Basra a week before they did. Big fucking deal...you don't trust those media outlets for "normal" reporting... what leap of faith did you take to suddenly find MSM Religion during mass confusion?

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:02:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1529. To: Rotara (#1499)
Yip...yip...yip...

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:08:18 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1530. To: Original_Intent (#1479)
Still waiting: Where did Jones get his samples, Chuklenutz?

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:12:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1531. To: Original_Intent (#1479)
Still waiting for a primary source on the UL certification [myth], chucklnutz...

But it's me who cannot handle the most miunute contradictions, eh?
[snicker]

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:15:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1532. To: War (#1477)
the stand down of NORAD and their inability to intercept (or so they say) ANY of the 4 aircraft, the failure of even one of the 4 aircraft to transmit the 4 digit hijack code (which takes about 2 to 3 seconds),
that's enough for me right there not to believe the Official Story.
That was what first alerted me that all was not as represented. I was in the military and I know how stuff like this operates. NORAD does not Stand Down like this during an emergency. If they were as incompetent as misrepresented the Officers in charge should have been Courts Martialed. However, they were not. That in and of itself is an interesting datum. In fact NO ONE INDIVIDUAL has ever been Courts Martialed or Fired for 911. "But Holmes the dog did not bark in the night" "Exactly Watson, and that is what is curious."
As well one could assume that the "hijackers" were able to get into the cockpit fast enough on one aircraft to prevent the transmission of the hijack code, but in all 4? Give me a break. The only way that happens is by tampering with the Avionics system which requires both skills and access the "hijackers" did not have.

bttt

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 13:23:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1533. To: war (#1529)
Israeli Company Mum About Perfect Timing Of WTC Pullout
Investigators Should Follow The Money Trail
By Christopher Bollyn
Exclusive To American Free Press
9-5-2
WHILE an Israeli real estate magnate from Australia insured his 99-year lease on the retail space of the World Trade Center against terrorism, one of Israel's biggest companies pulled out of the north tower just days before Sept. 11. AFP has learned from a reliable source in the shipping industry that Zim American Israeli Shipping Co., Inc. broke the lease when it vacated the rented offices on the 16th and 17th floors of the north tower of the World Trade Center shortly before the Sept. 11 disaster. According to the source, Zim's WTC office space had been leased until the end of the year and the company lost $50,000 when it suddenly pulled out in the beginning of September. The parent company, Zim Israel Navigation Co., is nearly half-owned by the state of Israel, the other half held by Israel Corp. Zim is one of the world's largest container shipping companies, operating an international network of shipping lines.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 13:27:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1534. To: Original_Intent, war (#1522)
Helpful hint to war:
You'd come off as a better disinfo artist if you questioned one or two aspects of the 9/11 Official Story rather than acting as though everything on the matter that came out of DC was gospel.
O_I thinks you're a pro. That little ol' me has to point this out to you shows you to be an amateur.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-27 13:36:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1535. To: TwentyTwelve (#1532) (Edited)

I was in the military and I know how stuff like this operates. NORAD does not Stand Down like this during an emergency. If they were as incompetent as misrepresented the Officers in charge should have been Courts Martialed. However, they were not

Why do you think so many in the military believe and defend the official story, and the government in general? why would so many of them vote for boosh even 3+ years after 911?
Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
Artisan posted on 2009-03-27 13:37:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1536. To: TwentyTwelve (#1532)
American Airlines Flight 11 ? Boston enroute to Los Angeles
FAA Notification to NEADS 0840*
Fighter Scramble Order (Otis Air National Guard Base, Falmouth, Mass. Two F- 15s) 0846**
Fighters Airborne 0852
Airline Impact Time (World Trade Center 1) 0846 (estimated)***
Fighter Time/Distance from Airline Impact Location Aircraft not airborne/153 miles

United Airlines Flight 175 ? Boston enroute to Los Angeles
FAA Notification to NEADS 0843
Fighter Scramble Order (Otis ANGB, Falmouth, Mass.
Same 2 F-15s as Flight 11) 0846
Fighters Airborne 0852
Airline Impact Time (World Trade Center 2) 0902 (estimated)
Fighter Time/Distance from Airline Impact Location approx 8 min****/71 miles
American Flight 77 ?Dulles enroute to Los Angeles
FAA Notification to NEADS 0924
Fighter Scramble Order (Langley AFB, Hampton, Va.
2 F-16s) 0924
Fighters Airborne 0930
Airline Impact Time (Pentagon) 0937(estimated)
Fighter Time/Distance from Airline Impact Location approx 12 min/105 miles
United Flight 93 ? Newark to San Francisco
FAA Notification to NEADS N/A *****
Fighter Scramble Order (Langley F-16s already airborne for AA Flt 77)
Fighters Airborne (Langley F-16 CAP remains in place to protect DC)
Airline Impact Time (Pennsylvania) 1003 (estimated)
Fighter Time/Distance from Airline Impact Location approx 11 min/100 miles
(from DC F-16 CAP)

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:38:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1537. To: bluegrass (#1534)
I have...you folks would come off better if you did as well...

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:39:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1538. To: bluegrass (#1534)
bump

I'd demand a refund if he were my shill. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 13:40:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1539. To: original_intent (#1535)
I was in the military and I know how stuff like this operates. NORAD does not Stand Down like this during an emergency. If they were as incompetent as misrepresented the Officers in charge should have been Courts Martialed. However, they were not

Why do you think so many in the military believe and defend the official story, and the government in general? why would so many of them vote for boosh even 3+ years after 911?
Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
Artisan posted on 2009-03-27 13:40:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1540. To: war (#1537)
I've never seen you question one aspect of the Official 911 Story.
Hell, I've questioned more of the alternate theories than I've seen you question the 9/11 Gospel.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-27 13:41:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1541. To: bluegrass (#1534)
O_I thinks

I've seen no evidence of that...

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:42:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1542. To: war (#1536)
911review.org/Scholarsfor...GAMES-SEPTEMBER-11TH.html
WAR GAMES ON SEPTEMBER 11TH
On the very morning of 9/11/01, five war games and terror drills were being conducted by several U.S. defense agencies, including one "live fly" exercise using REAL planes. Then-Acting Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Air Force General Richard B. Myers, admitted to 4 of the war games in congressional testimony -- see transcript here or video here (6 minutes and 12 seconds into the video).
As stated above, NORAD ran drills for years of planes being used as weapons against the World Trade Center and other U.S. high-profile buildings, "numerous types of civilian and military aircraft were used as mock hijacked aircraft", and at least some of the drills used REAL AIRCRAFT simulating terrorist attacks crashing jets into buildings, including the twin towers.
Indeed, a former Los Angeles police department investigator, whose newsletter is read by 45 members of congress, both the house and senate intelligence committees, and professors at more than 40 universities around the world, claims that he obtained an on-the-record confirmation from NORAD that on the very morning of 9/11 itself, NORAD and the Joint Chiefs of Staff were conducting a joint, live-fly, hijack exercise which involved government-operated aircraft POSING AS HIJACKED AIRLINERS.
On September 11th, the government also happened to be running a simulation of a plane crashing into a building.
In addition, a December 9, 2001 Toronto Star article reprinted here, stated that "Operation Northern Vigilance is called off. Any simulated information, what's known as an 'inject,' is purged from the screens". This indicates that there were false radar blips inserted onto air traffic controllers' screens as part of the war game exercises.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 13:42:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1543. To: Artisan (#1535)
The whole mountain of lies comes crumbling down when they realize the truth of 09.11.01.
The 'global war on terror', empire, blind support for Traitors like clinton-bush-obama, patriot acts and other liberty usurping measures, et al.
To admit the truth means they have to acknowledge their sheepleness.
Then there are the wolves and unholy shepherds.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 13:43:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1544. To: Original_Intent, war (#1541)
At least flag the person you're deriding, you rude-ass backstabber.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-27 13:44:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1545. To: war (#1536)
www.oilempire.us/wargames.html
From 9/11 war games before and during the attacks
a few of the war games source description
CIA / National Reconnaissance Office "plane into building" exercise Associated Press, August 21, 2002 simulation of a plane crash into the NRO headquarters (near Dulles Airport, Virginia) - this was not a "terrorism" exercise but it did result in the evacuation of most NRO employees just as the "real" 9/11 was taking place, making it more difficult for the nation's spy satellites to be used to track the hijacked planes
Vigilant Guardian Aviation Week & Space Technology, June 3, 2002, Newhouse News, others (these articles are reproduced below) The publicly available mass media articles about these exercises state that they were similar enough to the actual events that top NORAD personnel were confused, not sure if 9/11 was "part of the drill" or a real world event.
Vigilant Warrior Richard Clark, "Against All Enemies" (March 2004) referenced by Richard Clark. Northern Vigilance Toronto Star, December 9, 2001 "Operation Northern Vigilance, planned months in advance, involves deploying fighter jets to locations in Alaska and northern Canada." This ensured that there would be fewer fighter planes available to protect the East Coast on 9/11. Simulated information was fed into radar screens - is this what confused the air defenses that morning?
Northern Guardian Toronto Star, December 9, 2001 only mention was in the early edition of this article, no details publicly available (probably related to Northern Vigilance)
Tripod II US Department of Justice and City of New York Rudolph Giuliani's testimony to the 9/11 Commission, May 2004 biowar exercise in New York City scheduled for September 12, 2001

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 13:45:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1546. To: TwentyTwelve (#1542)
at least some of the drills used REAL AIRCRAFT simulating terrorist attacks crashing jets into buildings, including the twin towers.

Coincidence. ;-)
These fairy tale Otards are short yellow bus people apparently.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 13:45:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1547. To: bluegrass (#1540)
I've never seen you question one aspect of the Official 911 Story.

I've stated here that I have a hard time believing that our NS structure had 0 inkling that an attack was imminent. I also believe that they engaged in a systemactic coverup of either their ennui or gross incompetence.
My problem with you moonbats is that it makes 0 sense to go through all of that crap and blame a guy in a cave when they had a convenient boogeyman in Saddam.

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:45:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1548. To: bluegrass (#1544)
Go soak yer head. This thread is a one long example of what you're barking at me about. Go bark at them too...

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:47:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1549. To: TwentyTwelve (#1545)
making it more difficult for the nation's spy satellites to be used to track the hijacked planes

Do you kinow how absurd that statement is?
Apparently not...

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:51:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1550. To: war (#1547)
Your desire to lick the boots of the Ruling Elite by swallowing their fairy tales doesn't make the rest of us crazy. If anything, it shows your ethical and intellectual shortcomings.
In my experience, stupid and corrupt people think that anyone not as stupid and corrupt as they are 'moonbats'. I saw it for years with Freepers.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-27 13:52:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1551. To: war (#1536)
Official Testimony by Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta
9-11 Commission self-appointed by Bush Jr. White House
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States 9-11Commission.gov
The Bush Administration claims the terrorists were successful because the U.S. had faulty intelligence, bad luck, and bureaucratic ineptitude, but that isn't true. Vice President Dick Cheney monitored the flight path of Flight 77, the commercial airliner that crashed into the Pentagon. Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as American Airlines Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. Secretary Norman Mineta testified to the 911 Commission on May 23, 2003:
"When I got to the White House, it was being evacuated. . . . Then the Secret Service escorted me down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, otherwise known as the PEOC. . . . We did not know how many more attacks might be in progress. . . . During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out."
And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?"
And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"
Reposted by Dr. Stan Monteith, RadioLiberty.com, Newsletter - February, 2004
Full Transcript at CooperativeResearch.org

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 13:52:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1552. To: war (#1548) (Edited)
This thread is a one long example...

This thread is one long example of your dedication to the art of disinformation. The rest of us are here because we don't believe the Feds. You're here because you do believe them.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-27 13:54:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1553. To: war (#1536)
Wargames Were Cover For the Operational Execution of 9/11
UPDATE: Alex Jones Discusses 9/11 Wargames in April 2004 Video ... In May of 2001, by presidential order, Cheney was handed direct control of all wargame ...
www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2004/080904wargamescover.htm - 44k - -

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 13:55:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1554. To: war (#1536)
Wargames Were Cover For the Operational Execution of 9/11
www.prisonplanet.com/arti...4/080904wargamescover.htm
Wargames Were Cover For the Operational Execution of 9/11
Alex Jones & Paul Joseph Watson | Updated September 20 2004
UPDATE: Alex Jones Discusses 9/11 Wargames in April 2004 Video
For almost three years since 9/11 independent researchers have stockpiled individual smoking guns which prove that the official version of events was not only a lie but operationally impossible.
However, no single smoking gun has yet been forwarded to explain why air defenses categorically reversed Standard Operating Procedure and failed to respond to hijacked jetliners.
Until now. More and more individuals are looking at the facts and highlighting exercise drills that took place on the morning of 9/11.
It is clear that at least five if not six training exercises were in operation in the days leading up to and on the morning of 9/11. This meant that NORAD radar screens showed as many as 22 hijacked airliners at the same time. NORAD had been briefed that this was part of the exercise drill and therefore normal reactive procedure was forestalled and delayed.
The large numbers of 'blips' on NORAD screens that displayed both real and 'drill' hijacked planes explain why confused press reports emerged hours after the attack stating that up to eight planes had been hijacked. Click here for that article.
The drill scenario also explains a comment made by air traffic control personnel which was featured in a July 2004 BBC television report. Click here for that video clip and article. The controller is told that a hijacked airliner is heading for New York and responds by saying, "is this real world or an exercise?"
Alex Jones was one of the first to highlight the wargames in his documentary film 'Masters of Terror', which was released in August 2002. Click here to watch a video clip. Alex explains why the Associated Press later had to admit the fact that the CIA were running drills of crashing planes into buildings on the morning of 9/11.
What were the drills called and what was their nature?
1) OPERATION NORTHERN VIGILANCE: This was planned months in advance of 9/11 and ensured that on the morning of 9/11, jet fighters were removed from patrolling the US east coast and sent to Alaska and Canada, therefore reducing the amount of fighter planes available to protect the east coast.
2) BIOWARFARE EXERCISE TRIPOD II: Alex Jones first reported on this back in May when Rudolph Giuliani let the details of it slip in his testimony to the 9/11 Commission. FEMA arrived in New York on September 10th to set up a command post located at Pier 29 under the auspices of a 'biowarfare exercise scheduled for September 12. This explains why Tom Kenney of FEMA's National Urban Search and Rescue Team, told Dan Rather of CBS News that FEMA had arrived in New York on the night of September 10th. This was originally dismissed as a slip of the tongue. Giuliani was to use this post as a command post on 9/11 after he evacuated WTC Building 7. As we reported back in January, Giuliani knew when to leave WTC 7 because he got advanced warning that the Trade Towers were about to collapse. "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse," Rudolph Giuliani told Peter Jennings of ABC News. How did Giuliani know the towers were about to collapse when no steel building in history had previously collapsed from fire damage?
3) OPERATION VIGILANT GUARDIAN: This exercise simulated hijacked planes in the north eastern sector and started to coincide with 9/11. Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins, NORAD unit's airborne control and warning officer, was overseeing the exercise. At 8:40am she took a call from Boston Center which said it had a hijacked airliner. Her first words, as quoted by Newhouse News Service were, "It must be part of the exercise." This is another example of how the numerous drills on the morning of 9/11 deliberately distracted NORAD so that the real hijacked planes couldn't be intercepted in time.
4) OPERATION NORTHERN GUARDIAN: The details of this exercise are still scant but it is considered to be part of Vigilant Guardian, relating to simulating hijacked planes in the north eastern sector.
5) OPERATION VIGILANT WARRIOR: This was referenced in Richard Clarke's book 'Against All Enemies'. It is thought to have been the 'attack' component of the Vigilant Guardian exercise.
Another example of how air defenses were purposefully kept preoccupied so they couldn't protect New York was reported by this website in December of 2003. The Air National Guard's 177th Fighter Wing, based at Atlantic City International Airport in Pomona, were just eight minutes away from New York and could have intercepted both Flight 11 and Flight 175.
Under NORAD procedures that date to the Cold War, two F-16 fighters from the 177th were parked around the clock on the Atlantic City runway. Pilots waited in a nearby building, ready to scramble.
But on the morning of 9/11, the F-16's were performing bombing runs over an empty stretch of the Pine Barrens near Atlantic City after being decommissioned from their usual role of protecting the skies of the east coast.
It was only after both trade towers were hit that the two F-16s landed and were refitted with air-to-air missiles, then sent aloft.
Now that we have established how NORAD were confused, delayed and distracted by the numerous wargames, the next question to ask is who if anyone was aware of which planes were 'real world' and which planes were 'exercise'? The answer to this question will provide us with the name of the individual who ran the operatonal execution of the 9/11 attack.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 13:56:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1555. To: bluegrass, TwentyTwelve (#1550)
What do you expect from them?:

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 13:57:45 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1556. To: TwentyTwelve (#1554)
This has been effectively rebutted...reposting it won't make it suddenly true...

war posted on 2009-03-27 13:57:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1557. To: TwentyTwelve (#1554)
However, no single smoking gun has yet been forwarded to explain why air defenses categorically reversed Standard Operating Procedure and failed to respond to hijacked jetliners.

Coincidence ! /s

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 13:58:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1558. To: bluegrass (#1552)
Cite one link that is to the government report...in pooint of fact, this thread is testimony to me dealing with each and every one of the points that you Moonbats have raised while each and every one of you ignoring not only my points of rebuttal but my questions surrounding your blatherings.
So, you can also feel free to answer the questions that I have raised. You can begin with the fact that UL did not certify the steel and where Professor Jones got his samples as well as his admission that WTC 7 took twice as long to fall as he had been promoting.
Thanks.

war posted on 2009-03-27 14:01:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1559. To: war (#1558)
UL did not certify the steel

You're confused. You and I never discussed UL. The last time we discussed 9/11, you tried to rewrite the Odigo article I submitted.
Then again, that's what moonbats do - rewrite things to their liking.
This moonbat thing of yours...which Freeper cell did you train in?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-27 14:04:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1560. To: war (#1558)
[21] See here for pictures and comments in FEMA’s report mentioning the melted steel: www.911research.wtc7.net/...nce/metallurgy/index.html
“Although virtually all of the structural steel from the Twin Towers and Building 7 was removed and destroyed, preventing forensic analysis, FEMA's volunteer investigators did manage to perform "limited metallurgical examination" of some of the steel before it was recycled. Their observations, including numerous micrographs, are recorded in Appendix C of the WTC Building Performance Study. Prior to the release of FEMA's report, a fire protection engineer and two science professors published a brief report in JOM disclosing some of this evidence.” 1
“The results of the examination are striking. They reveal a phenomenon never before observed in building fires: eutectic reactions, which caused "intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese." The New York Times described this as "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation."2 WPI provides a graphic summary of the phenomenon.”
“The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified. The rate of corrosion is also unknown. It is possible that this is the result of long-term heating in the ground following the collapse of the buildings. It is also possible that the phenomenon started prior to collapse and accelerated the weakening of the steel structure. A detailed study into the mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed to determine what risk, if any, is presented to existing steel structures exposed to severe and long-burning fires.”
Evidence of evaporated steel as reported by the New York Times:
“Engineers have been trying to figure out exactly what happened… ‘Fire and the structural damage… would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated’” from:
Glanz, James (2001). “Engineers are baffled over the collapse of 7 WTC; Steel members have been partly evaporated,” New York Times, November 29. 2001.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 14:08:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1561. To: TwentyTwelve (#1560)
Engineers are baffled over the collapse of 7 WTC

More likely, they can't accept the reality of what happened.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 14:10:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1562. To: TwentyTwelve (#1560)
The FEMA Report is a non starter.

war posted on 2009-03-27 14:11:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1563. To: bluegrass, Original Intent (#1559)
ROFLMAO...I rewrote squat Moonie...you're tentmate here even admits that the story was never authenticated.

war posted on 2009-03-27 14:12:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1564. To: TwentyTwelve (#1560)
A detailed study into the mechanisms of this phenomenon is needed to determine what risk, if any, is presented to existing steel structures exposed to severe and long-burning fires.

They don't have to worry about that anymore. They only made one batch of the Magickal Jet Fuel™.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-27 14:13:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1565. To: James Deffenbach (#1564)
ehehe

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 14:14:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1566. To: war, Original Intent (#1563)
I rewrote squat...

Yeah, you did.
You're a rank amateur.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-27 14:19:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1567. To: Rotara (#1565)
Well, think about it. How many skyscrapers caught on fire and never fell into their own footprint before 9/11? How many after? And of course the answer is that it never happened before or since. Ergo, Magickal Jet Fuel™.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-27 14:23:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1568. To: James Deffenbach, Rotara (#1567)
Well, think about it. How many skyscrapers caught on fire and never fell into their own footprint before 9/11? How many after? And of course the answer is that it never happened before or since. Ergo, Magickal Jet Fuel™.

www.prisonplanet.com/arti...st2007/190807Building.htm
Ground Zero Building Catches Fire, Doesn't Collapse
Prison Planet
Sunday Aug 19, 2007
The 40 story Deutsche Bank building next to the ground zero site in New York, where the world trade center once stood, caught fire yesterday and burned intensely for seven hours without collapsing.
This represents another modern day miracle in light of the commonly accepted premise that since 9/11, all steel buildings that suffer limited fire damage implode within two hours. This building had even suffered structural damage on 9/11 and had been partially dismantled.
The raging fire, which killed two firefighters, was finally declared under control late saturday afternoon, a full seven hours after it had begun to burn.
On 9/11 the south tower of the WTC burned for just 56 minutes before collapsing, while the north tower lasted around an hour and 45 minutes. According to the official transcripts of the firefighter tapes, fires in both towers were almost out immediately before the collapses.
The saving grace that could have prevented Deutsche Bank from imploding may have been the fact that it was not hit by a plane, as the twin towers were on 9/11.
However, the absence of a jet strike wasn't enough to prevent WTC 7 from crumbling into its own footprint within 7 seconds later that fateful afternoon.
Hundreds of buildings worldwide suffered major fires that gutted the entire facade of their structure before 9/11 and did not collapse, but since the twin towers behaved differently, rather than consider an alternative explanation for the collapse of the towers, experts simply decided to reverse the fundamental precepts of all known physics to make it easier for everyone to understand.
Since that time, it has been commonly accepted that limited fires in tall buildings are 99% certain to cause an almost instantaneous collapse.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 14:28:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1569. To: bluegrass (#1566)
ROFLMAO...you folks are killing me today...it was an illustration to you as to how the story could be manipulated, doofette. WAY to miss the obvious point!!!

war posted on 2009-03-27 14:29:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1570. To: James Deffenbach (#1567)
BEIJING SKYSCRAPER FIRE & WTC 7
• Beijing Skyscraper Fire: The Silence Is Deafening
• Still Standing: The Building That Proves WTC 7 Was Imploded

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 14:31:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1571. To: TwentyTwelve (#1568)
1570

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 14:32:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1572. To: TwentyTwelve (#1568)
Hundreds of buildings worldwide suffered major fires that gutted the entire facade of their structure before 9/11 and did not collapse, but since the twin towers behaved differently

How many more times, to the nearest 10,000th, does it need to be pointed out to you that those buildings were of an entirely different framing construct than WTC? And don't ***think*** I didn't notice your use of the word "facade", weasle.

war posted on 2009-03-27 14:32:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1573. To: Rotara, James Deffenbach (#1570)
BEIJING SKYSCRAPER FIRE & WTC 7
• Beijing Skyscraper Fire: The Silence Is Deafening
• Still Standing: The Building That Proves WTC 7 Was Imploded

Five days after being continuously flooded with water, molten metal at the bases of WTC-2 and WTC-7 was measured approximately 1,3500F. Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, N.Y., told Christopher Bollyn that while removing debris from the site he had seen pools of “literally molten steel” at the World Trade Center.
Bollyn phoned Loizeaux. “Yes,” confirmed the man in charge of the WTC clean-up, “hot spots of molten steel in the basements.” Specifically, the hot areas were found “at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven levels,” Loizeaux said.
Loizeaux also confirmed that molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which suddenly collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon of September 11—apparently from a city-ordered demolition.
New York City firefighters remain under a tight government gag order to not discuss the explosions they heard, felt and saw. FAA radar personnel are also under a similar gag order.
Taken From: www.willthomas.net/Convergence/Weekly/WTC_Bombs.htm

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 14:32:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1574. To: war (#1569)
how the story could be manipulated

And you manipulated it, expecting a big ol' 'case closed'.
The original story still stands, amateur. Odigo said they were warned.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-27 14:32:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1575. To: war (#1572)
those buildings were of an entirely different framing construct than WTC?

WTC 7 wasn't.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-27 14:33:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1576. To: TwentyTwelve (#1568)
Since that time, it has been commonly accepted that limited fires in tall buildings are 99% certain to cause an almost instantaneous collapse.

Well yeah, if they made another batch of that fuel and splashed a few drops on one and lit it. It would most certainly be doomed. I hope they lost the formula for that $#it--it's way too dangerous.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-27 14:34:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1577. To: war (#1572)
www.newworldpeace.com/coverup5a.html
Professor of fire prevention engineering states the jet fuel could not have caused the collapse alone, and asks for a full investigation.
We must try to find out why the twin towers fell.
--------------------------------------------------------------
THE JET fuel fires in the World Trade Center towers did not bring down those two buildings. Indeed, the fuel burned up in minutes. Why, then, did the towers and their 44-story neighbor, WTC-7, which was not struck by a plane, collapse? It's a question that bears generally on fire safety, the safety of building occupants and firefighters and the vulnerability of our buildings to terror by fire.
I expected the National Response Team of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms would participate in an investigation that I surely thought would follow the Sept. 11 attacks. The ATF has the authority to investigate arson involving interstate commerce. Certainly, these horrendous attacks should be construed as arson. I later learned that the ATF was told it would not be needed.
I expected the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) to head the investigations. It's noted for its thoroughness, objectivity and know-how with respect to large-scale disasters. But it was relegated to flight issues dealing with the two hijacked aircraft and the aircraft debris. The buildings were not to be within the scope of their investigation.
There is an ad hoc investigative group, which is sponsored by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the American Society of Civil Engineers. But it does not have the full resources that might be made available, nor does it control the site.
I became increasingly concerned the more I learned about the investigative process, or lack of one. The site teams at the towers were focused on rescue, retrieval and cleanup, not investigation. The structural steel pieces, coded with chalk and stamped numbers to indicate their building location, were being sold as scrap metal.
The evidence needed to identify the cause of the collapse and intensity of the fire was being lost. Had the NTSB or ATF been involved, the site would have been secured, evidence documented and protected. Remember how the pieces of TWA Flight 800 were brought up from the ocean bottom off Long Island and restored to preserve structural evidence essential to identifying the cause of the 1996 crash?

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 14:34:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1578. To: TwentyTwelve (#1573)
Loizeaux also confirmed that molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which suddenly collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon of September 11—apparently from a city-ordered demolition.
New York City firefighters remain under a tight government gag order to not discuss the explosions they heard, felt and saw. FAA radar personnel are also under a similar gag order.

Gag a shill !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 14:37:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1579. To: bluegrass, war (#1575)
WTC 7 wasn't.

1993
“[Building designer] John Skilling recounts his people having carried out an analysis which found the twin towers could withstand the impact of a Boeing 707. Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed.” But, he says, “The building structure would still be there.”[4]
“The analysis Skilling is referring to is likely one done in early 1964, during the design phase of the towers. A three-page white paper, dated February 3, 1964, described its findings: “The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.”

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-27 14:38:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1580. To: bluegrass, war, all (#1534)
Helpful hint to war:
You'd come off as a better disinfo artist if you questioned one or two aspects of the 9/11 Official Story rather than acting as though everything on the matter that came out of DC was gospel.
O_I thinks you're a pro. That little ol' me has to point this out to you shows you to be an amateur.

It's hard to get good help at 9 bucks an hour.
Of course since CENTCOM runs its own disinfo operation it could be PFC war.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-27 14:49:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1581. To: Original_Intent (#1580)
Of course since CENTCOM runs its own disinfo operation it could be PFC war.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 14:52:08 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1582. To: Rotara, war, bluegrass, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, FormerLurker, all (#1578)
Loizeaux also confirmed that molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which suddenly collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon of September 11—apparently from a city-ordered demolition.
New York City firefighters remain under a tight government gag order to not discuss the explosions they heard, felt and saw. FAA radar personnel are also under a similar gag order.
Gag a shill !

The problem the poooooooooooor shills, such as war, run into is that the moment they try to spin away one piece of evidence, in isolation from all the others, is that another piece of evidence contradicting the Official Fairy Tale pops up and they then either have to avoid it or hope that they can use diversionary tactics to direct attention elsewhere. At this point I'm sure they have books of preprogrammed responses and all they have to do is quickly thumb through the "Playbook" and cut and paste the approved response. Problem is that too many of the anomalies are well enough documented at this point, along with rebuttals of their "talking points", that they actually have to try and think - not something they are terribly good at - particularly when debating people who are 20 or 30 IQ points above them.
Poooooooooooooor shills. Oy Vey!
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-27 14:59:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1583. To: Rotara (#1581)
LOL!
"Private! Your responses are FAILING PRIVATE!"
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-27 15:01:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1584. To: Original_Intent (#1582)
Oy Vey!

It just has to suck AND blow to be them.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 15:04:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1585. To: Original_Intent (#1583)
EHEHEEEEEEEE !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 15:04:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1586. To: bluegrass (#1574)
Odigo said they were warned. `

Warned yes...about the Towers...no...

war posted on 2009-03-27 20:18:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1587. To: TwentyTwelve (#1579)
Post a primary source to Skilling's quote...thanks...
You Moonbats are famous for making shit up...like NORAD 'standing down" and UL approviong the steel..and WTC 7 collapsing in 6.odd seconds until you're shown a video that it was actually 13 odd...

war posted on 2009-03-27 20:50:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1588. To: bluegrass, war (#1534)
Helpful hint to war: You'd come off as a better disinfo artist if you questioned one or two aspects...

Trutherism or anti-Trutherism as performance art with points awarded for technique, kind of like professional ice skating but not quite as gay.
You guys have passed through the looking glass.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-27 23:45:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1589. To: TooConservative (#1588)
Come on now, only a total ignoramus or paid shill believes the Official 911 Fairy Tale® at this point.
There's no 'tween ground left to stand on. Our government is run by a treacherous cabal and the butchers are way way way way out of control.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-27 23:50:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1590. To: war (#1587)
2001
“Leslie Robertson, one of the two original structural engineers for the World Trade Center, is asked at a conference in Frankfurt, Germany what he had done to protect the twin towers from terrorist attacks. He replies, ‘I designed it for a 707 to smash into it,’ though does not elaborate further.”[6]
[Leslie Robertson:] “The twin towers were in fact the first structures outside the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airplane.”[7]
[Frank A. Demartini:] “The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.” Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, spoke of the resilience of the towers in an interview recorded on January 25, 2001.[8]
[6] [Chicago Tribune, 9/12/2001; Knight Ridder, 9/12/2001]
[7] [Robertson, 3/2002; Federal Emergency Management Agency, 5/1/2002, pp. 1-17]
[8] http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/ 141104designedtotake.htm

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 0:43:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1591. To: war (#1587)
Post a primary source to Skilling's quote...thanks...

[4] [Seattle Times, 2/27/1993]

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 0:44:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1592. To: TwentyTwelve (#1591)
Don't expect me to lie...
Don't expect me to cry...
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-28 0:50:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1593. To: war (#1572)
Evidence of evaporated steel as reported by the New York Times:
“Engineers have been trying to figure out exactly what happened… ‘Fire and the structural damage… would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated’” from:
Glanz, James (2001). “Engineers are baffled over the collapse of 7 WTC; Steel members have been partly evaporated,” New York Times, November 29. 2001.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 0:53:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1594. To: war (#1572)
Do you know that those jet fuel fires only lasted a few minutes? They did not last long enough to significantly contribute to any temperature rise of the structure. Sorry, thats shear nonsense.
From Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
Page 52, E.8.2 Characteristics of the Fires
The dominant fuel for the fires in the towers was the office combustables. On the floors where the aircraft fuselage impacted, there was a significant, but secondary contribution from the combustables in the aircraft. Most of the jet fuel in the fire zones was consumed in the first few minutes after impact, although there may have been unburned pockets of jet fuel that led to flare-ups late in the morning.
Page 53, E.8.3 Capability for Large Fire Reconstruction
Jet fuel sprayed onto the surfaces of typical office workstations burned away within a few minutes. The jet fuel accelerated the burning of the workstation, but did not affect the overall heat released.
Page 104, 3.2.1 Nature of Combustables
While much of the public attention has been focused on the jet fuel, most of this was combusted in only a few minutes. By contrast, typical office furnishings can sustain intense fires of at least an hour's duration on a given floor (see, e.g. Nelson 1989)

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 0:55:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1595. To: war (#1572)
A far more extensive fire occurred in WTC-1 on February 13, 1975, which burned at much higher temperatures for three hours and spread over 65% of the 11th floor, including the core, yet caused no significant damage to the steel structure and no trusses had to be replaced.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 0:56:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1596. To: war (#1572)
www.wtc7.net/location.html
Building 7's Location
WTC 7's location Building 7 occupied a city block immediately north of the World Trade Center complex. WTC 1 through WTC 6 were on the superblock bounded by West, Church, Liberty, and Vesey Streets. Building 7 was wedged between the Verizon and U.S. Post Office buildings across Vesey Street from the WTC complex. It straddled an electrical substation that filled the first two stories of about half the block.
People who have heard of Building 7 tend to assume that 'ancillary damage' from the collapses of the Twin Towers had something to do with Building 7's collapse. It is important to note that Building 7 was no closer to the towers than any of several other large buildings outside of the WTC complex. The wall of Building 7 closest to the WTC complex was more than 300 feet from the nearest wall of the North Tower. It appears that nearly all of the heavy fallout from the disintegration of the North Tower landed short of Building 7. Building 6 stood between the North Tower and Building 7.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 0:58:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1597. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1596)
bzzzzzt

The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-28 1:03:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1598. To: TwentyTwelve (#1591)
Twin Towers Engineered To Withstand Jet Collision
By Eric Nalder
Engineers had to consider every peril they could imagine when they designed the World Trade Center three decades ago because, at the time, the twin towers were of unprecedented size for structures made of steel and glass.
"We looked at every possible thing we could think of that could happen to the buildings, even to the extent of an airplane hitting the side," said John Skilling, head structural engineer. "However, back in those days people didn't think about terrorists very much."
Skilling, based in Seattle, is among the world's top structural engineers. He is responsible for much of Seattle's downtown skyline and for several of the world's tallest structures, including the Trade Center.
Concerned because of a case where an airplane hit the Empire State Building, Skilling's people did an analysis that showed the towers would withstand the impact of a Boeing 707.
"Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed," he said. "The building structure would still be there."
Skilling - a recognized expert in tall buildings - doesn't think a single 200- pound car bomb would topple or do major structural damage to a Trade Center tower. The supporting columns are closely spaced and even if several were disabled, the others would carry the load.
"However," he added, "I'm not saying that properly applied explosives - shaped explosives - of that magnitude could not do a tremendous amount of damage."
He took note of the fact that smoke and fire spread throughout the building yesterday. He said that is possibly because the pressurizing system that stops the spread of smoke didn't work when the electric power went off. Skilling, 72, was not involved in the design of the building mechanics.
Although Skilling is not an explosives expert, he says there are people who do know enough about building demolition to bring a structure like the Trade Center down.
"I would imagine that if you took the top expert in that type of work and gave him the assignment of bringing these buildings down with explosives, I would bet that he could do it."
Copyright (c) 1993 Seattle Times Company, All Rights Reserved

war posted on 2009-03-28 7:18:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1599. To: TwentyTwelve (#1590)
Robertson admitted that they could not plan for how devistating the fires were. Skilling's article is posted above. Skilling's interview, posted above, doesn't seem to make his comment as cut and dry as you'd like. DeMartini was not a design engineer.

war posted on 2009-03-28 7:21:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1600. To: TwentyTwelve (#1593)
November? How much of the study into why the collpases happened had bene completed? People usually are baffled until they research imnto why something happened.
You still have yet to answer any of my questions. I am beginning to believe that your point here is to simply spam the thread hoping that I will go away. It's not going to happen.

war posted on 2009-03-28 7:23:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1601. To: war, TwentyTwelve, all (#1600)
People usually are baffled until they research imnto why something happened.

There's nothing baffling about it. One only has to watch the video of the disintegration of the towers to see that they were pulverized.
If the floors 'pancaked', then where is the stack of floors at the bottom?
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-28 8:17:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1602. To: war (#1587)
WTC 7 collapsing in 6.odd seconds until you're shown a video that it was actually 13 odd...

You can show a video that it was 13 seconds?
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-28 8:53:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1603. To: war, wudidiz (#1600)
I looked around YouTube a bit, couldn't find a 13 second clip of WTC 7's collapse.
It would seem to me that this is a fact that we should be able to establish from video.
6 seconds or 13 seconds. Pick one.
I think WTC 7 has always been the Truthers' strongest argument.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-28 9:39:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1604. To: TooConservative (#1603)
It doesn't matter if it was 6, 13 or 20 seconds. It was obviously a controlled demolition.

There's no room for argument.
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-28 10:03:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1605. To: wudidiz (#1604)
It doesn't matter if it was 6, 13 or 20 seconds.

Yes, it does.
In debate, if you can't establish facts that both sides will stipulate to, you have no grounds for any kind of debate.
You have to start with shared facts. This matter of how many seconds the collapse took should not even be a matter for debate, there should be plenty of evidence for any reasonable person, plenty of cameras you can time to determine the time for collapse.
Start with the facts you agree on. Then you can have a proper debate.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-28 10:21:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1606. To: TooConservative (#1605)
The sky's blue. Someone can say it's green. They can show me pictures of a green sky. It doesn't matter. The sky's still blue. There is no room for debate. People can argue about whether Bush or the CIA or the Mossad were responsible for 9/11, but not about Building 7 being a controlled demolition or not. Not in the real world.
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-28 10:26:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1607. To: TooConservative (#1605)
It doesn't matter if it was 6, 13 or 20 seconds.
Yes, it does.

Yeah maybe it does, but it was brought down by explosives anyway.
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-28 10:29:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1608. To: wudidiz (#1601)
Pancaked referred to the fact that they fell on top of each other....not how they ended up at the bottom. And posting a pic of a 6 story building which pancaked is a well over the top of disingenious.

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:01:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1609. To: wudidiz (#1607)
Yeah maybe it does, but it was brought down by explosives anyway.

The videos of the collapse are suggestive.
You get nowhere in debate if you don't establish the facts both sides will stipulate to.
For instance, none of us argues that WTC 7 never collapsed. If someone won't agree to that, then you can't argue with that person because they're not fact-based.
Similarly, you need to establish the whys and hows of WTC collapsing, how long it took, some of the similarities to a demolition. But you have to start with things like how long did it take to collapse.
The facts are the facts, no matter which side you're on. Without facts, there is no way to apply science or reason and you end up arguing something like a religion, a faith-based belief system. This applies to both Truthers and anti-Truthers.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-28 11:01:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1610. To: wudidiz (#1606)
The sky's blue. Someone can say it's green. They can show me pictures of a green sky.

Those would be fake pictures. That has nothing to do with 9/11.
Try to stop arguing things from analogy. It's always weak, always distorting. And if you want to convince science-based persons, they get suspicious the second you start arguing from analogy.
You don't need to argue from analogy if you have facts.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-28 11:03:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1611. To: TooConservative (#1603)
I still believe that their strongest argument is the reaction of the executive branch that day. I have yet to find that any of their other blatherings stand up to scrutiny. And while I will confess that some aspects take more research than other, I have yet to discover any aspect of their blatherings regarding the actual collapse of the towers to be truthful. IN point of fact, some of their blatherings are directly contradicted by visual records; yet, cling to them they do.

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:04:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1612. To: TwentyTwelve (#1594)
Do you know that those jet fuel fires only lasted a few minutes? They did not last long enough to significantly contribute to any temperature rise of the structure. Sorry, thats shear nonsense.

Yea so? Are you claiming that there was nothing inside the Towers that could catch fire after that fuel was consumed?
I have never claimed that jet fuel brought those Towers down...ever...nor have most of the analyses that I have read.

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:07:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1613. To: wudidiz (#1602)

CBS Video of the World Trade Center 7 Collapse -

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:08:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1614. To: war (#1611)
IN point of fact, some of their blatherings are directly contradicted by visual records; yet, cling to them they do.

Maybe you could post a video of the 13 second collapse and of the Truthers who repudiated their earlier position.
Facts are good for both sides, war. Unless a video has been faked, it is a neutral record. There should be enough videos of WTC 7's collapse to establish such a basic fact, something fundamental to the arguments offered by both sides.

TooConservative posted on 2009-03-28 11:11:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1615. To: TooConservative, Wudidiz, christine, Rotara, TwentyTwelve, bluegrass, HOUNDDAWG, all (#1605)
It doesn't matter if it was 6, 13 or 20 seconds.
Yes, it does.
In debate, if you can't establish facts that both sides will stipulate to, you have no grounds for any kind of debate.

Actually I would argue that you are both correct.
I am even willing to accept the stipulation that it was 13 seconds.
Of course that is because it does not materially affect the conclusion. The rate of the collapse has always been a secondary datum which supported the argument but was not essential to the argument.
The primary data to be observed, and which are not in dispute as they are recorded on the video is:
The collapse began symmetrically in 360 degrees meaning it was uniform completely around the perimiter of the building.
One can observe in the video that the building collapses in upon itself. Visible evidence of this fact is the two cracks that appear in the facade along lines approximating the physical presence in the building of the central core structure - the strongest part of the structure. The center of the building then begins to subside pulling the rest of the structure inward. This again supports the observation that the collapse was initiated simultaneously in 360 degrees and thus was thus symmetrical. This is directly at variance with known observations of catastrophic failure of a structure wherein there is always a weak point that gives way thus causing the failure to proceed in the direction of the point of initial failure. For it to collapse symmetrically means that it had to fail simultaneously in 360 degrees thus indicating a causal mechanism initiating a uniform collapse. In a normal catastrophic failure the failure occurs asymmetrically as their is a single point of initial failure which then compromises the structure thus resulting in failure proceeding in that direction. Simultaneous collapse is again buttressed by the appearance of the two cracks allong the core lines in the same unit of time. Were there only one point of failure the buildings collapse would have shown a definite slump in the direction of the point of failure. So, again we are brought back to the observable fact that the collapse was uniform and symmetrical in 360 degrees. This we can all observe without including the disputed datum of the rate of collapse which despite the disputation is measured in mere seconds from the time the first signature occurs until the structure collapses neatly into its own footprint - with the strongest part of the structure failing first.
If we compare the collapse of building 7 to known instances of explosive demolitions of buildings the observable similarity is one of the most striking aspects of the building 7 collapse.
I could build further on the argument but don't have the time at the moment, but I think this demonstrates clearly enough that the collapse of bldg. 7 does not conform to a normal engineering failure and there are elements unaccounted for which initiated the collapse above and beyond a normal structural failure.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-28 11:22:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1616. To: TooConservative, Original Intent (#1614)
Maybe you could post a video of the 13 second collapse and of the Truthers who repudiated their earlier position.

I had posted that previously...
That is what is frustrating...Troofers make a statement to which they are given either video or analytical evidence that stands in direct contradiction of their assertion but they simply ignore it.
OI posted an entire litany and I took the time to address each and everyone one of his points as well as to question some of his points. Ditto 2012...not one of my questions have ever been addressed.

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:24:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1617. To: Original_Intent (#1615)
The rate of the collapse has always been a secondary datum

That is total bullshit...the whole "free fall speed" has been the LYNCHPIN of your C/D nonsense.

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:26:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1618. To: war (#1616)
Your job is disinfo. Anyone with a brain knows 911 was an inside job.

Old Friend posted on 2009-03-28 11:31:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1619. To: war (#1617)
Not at all as illustrated in my argument above (#1615) in which I placed no reliance on it. The argument simply becomes a little longer since one has to develop a little more background and it requires a little more knowledge to put together. The rate of collapse was a convenient datum to shorten the argument but is not and was not an essential datum - as my argument proves.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-28 11:32:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1620. To: Original_Intent (#1619)
The rate of collapse was a convenient datum to shorten the argument but is not and was not an essential datum - as my argument proves.

BULLSHIT...the TIME it took to fall was your entire case...
You still have the problem of why, if it was a CD, did the top collapse before the building?
So, where did Jones get his samples and why are you ignoring that question?

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:38:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1621. To: Old Friend (#1618)
That would still disqualify you...

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:39:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1622. To: Original_Intent (#1615)
The collapse began symmetrically in 360 degrees meaning it was uniform completely around the perimiter of the building.

You need to go back and look at that video...one side of the top visibly sags before the other...

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:40:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1623. To: Original_Intent (#1619)

war posted on 2009-03-28 11:52:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1624. To: war, Wudidiz, TwentyTwelve, all (#1622)
Attaboy - keep clutching at those straws.
The cracks appear so close together as to be materially insignificant.
The structure observably collapsed symmetrically in 360 degrees with collapse being initiated uniformly in those 360 degrees.
The entire support structure then just ceases to exist, as one sees in a controlled demolition, and the building collapses neatly into its own footprint.
NIST to date has avoided the building 7 collapse and then finally came up with their thermal expansion "hypothesis" to explain away the observable data and thence became a laughingstock everywhere but in the controlled American Media.
At this point the most you do is quibble and throw up whatever hoping it will stick as you continue to try to defend the Official Fairy Tale.
How much DO they pay you?
Do you have to sneak up on the mirror to shave?
'bot on duuuuuuuuuude!
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-28 11:55:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1625. To: Original_Intent (#1624)
The structure observably collapsed symmetrically in 360 degrees with collapse being initiated uniformly in those 360 degrees.

My ass...you can "say" that all you want to as the we watch the left side sag visibly and collapse well prior to the building falling...we also see the top of the structure collapse well before the building does...link those to 13 seconds and that's STRIKE THREE...
Where did Jones get his samples?

war posted on 2009-03-28 12:34:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1626. To: war (#1625)
www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1152446814/911_WTC_Squibs
After watching this, it may be tough to see the fall of the buildings without ever noticing the squibs again. A squib is a demolition term for the unique plume of smoke seen immediately after an explosion.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 12:37:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1627. To: war (#1625)
911review.org/Wiki/King,Jeff.shtml
www.ifilm.com/video/2768593
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8533904938803031452
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jAS4Zk059w
9/11 Truth: MIT Engineer Jeff King Proves WTC Collapses Were Controlled Demolitions
Sep 3 '06 at 12:36 PM - 137 views - 0 comments
World - Jeff King, and Engineer at MIT, uses his expertise in the topic to prove that the only way the World Trade Center towers (and building 7) could have come down in the manner they did was if they were brought down by controlled demolitions.
Jeff King's been a critic of the official story for a lot longer than the Scholars group or any of that has been around.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 12:38:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1628. To: war (#1625)
HOW TOUGH WERE THE TOWERS?
A lead engineer who worked on the WTC expressed shock that the towers collapsed from plane crashes.
Lee Robertson, the tower's structural engineer, addressed the problem of terrorism in the plans for the building, claiming he "designed it for a (Boeing) 707 to hit it." Lets examine Mr. Robertsons handiwork a bit more and take a look at how these towers were made...
Those 4 cranes you see in the photo, are perched atop the central support core of the tower. This core is built of sheer concrete reinforced by 44 beams of construction grade steel , which, were sealed in asbestos. (1) As you can see, it takes up the majority of the towers footprint. Here is a more accurate sketch of the floorplan...
Compare it to the BBC version further above...Funny how millions of people will see this drawing with 4 steel beams and think it is accurate! Moving on, check out the approach angles of the planes in relation to the positioning of the cores...
Notice how the North Tower takes a direct hit, perpendicular to the core, while the South Tower takes more of an angular hit, almost parallel to the core structure.
Take at Look:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1540044.stm
(1) Source:
letsroll911.org/phpwebsit...NN_user_op=view&ANN_id=13

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 12:42:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1629. To: TwentyTwelve (#1628)
So, TT, what's gonna happen in 2012?

Bwahaha, you honky suckas...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-03-28 12:43:37 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1630. To: war (#1625)
Another particularly important part of this is to note that Towers one, two, and seven have all of the 10 characteristics of a controlled demolition, a building collapsing from fire and plane impact damage having one of the characteristics of controlled demolition is astronomically rare, the chances of this damage having all 10 characteristics of a controlled demolition and not being a controlled demolition is next to nil. These characteristics are.
1. Each collapse occurred at virtually free fall speed;
2. Each building collapsed straight down, for the most part onto its own footprint;
3. Virtually all the concrete was turned into very fine dust;
4. In the case of the Twin Towers, the dust was blown out horizontally for 200 feet or more;
5. The collapses were total, leaving no steel columns sticking up hundreds of feet into the air;
6. Videos of the collapses reveal "demolition waves", meaning "confluent rows of small explosions"
7. Most of the steel beams and columns came down in sections that were no more than 30 feet long;
8. According to many witnesses, explosions occurred within the buildings;
9. Each collapse was associated with detectable seismic vibrations (suggestive of underground explosions);
10. Each collapse produced molten steel (which would be produced by explosives), resulting in "hot spots" that remained for months.?

Source:
Professor David Ray Griffin

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 12:45:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1631. To: war (#1625)
The structures failed uniformly and symetrically which is a signature of a controlled demolition not a an asymetrical catastrophic failure.
The rate at which the buildings collapsed was at a near freefall rate. In the case of WTC 7 it was only 0.6 seconds greater that a pure freefall. The only way that can happen is if the opposition i.e., the structural support of the building, its steel and concrete reinforced core, is removed virtually all at once. If it pancaked the pancaking of the outer structure should have left a spire of the central core sticking up above the rubble and each floor would have offered enough resistance to slow the collapse if only for short time. Certainly the aggregate time would be more than 0.6 seconds, but without further experimentation and analysis, costing some millions of dollars I don't have, the exact amount of time is undetermined.
Further the buildings essentially collapsed into their own footprint, again we would not expect this in an asymetric catastrophic failure, but would expect it in a controlled demolition.
No. No matter how you slice and dice it the evidence points at controlled demolition over and over and over again.
That is without looking at, or taking into account, any of the other anomalies such as the tower struck second (WTC 2) failed first - in only 56 minutes, or that one of the towers did begin to topple (again WTC 2) but for some strange reason the structure under it collapsed under it allowing it to drop straight down. How lucky can you get!? Could it be someone hit the switch to set off the demolitions charges so that it would not tip?

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 12:48:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1632. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1631)
No matter how you slice and dice it the evidence points at controlled demolition over and over and over again.

Building 7 Controlled Demolition
9/11 Controlled Demolitions of September 11, 2001

Landmark Tower
Implosion March 18,2006, Fort Worth, Texas

litus posted on 2009-03-28 13:04:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1633. To: war, Original_Intent (#1632) (Edited)
The collapse began symmetrically in 360 degrees meaning it was uniform completely around the perimiter of the building.

hmmmmm
~ .24 seconds into implosion, bottom video (the Landmark Building controlled demolition) of post #1632...."look at that video...one side of the top visibly sags before the other..".
Does this "evidence" mean that, contrary to claims otherwise, the Landmark Building demolition wasn't in fact controlled...or does the fact that, it, too, showed similar "sagging" as in the WTC 7, where "one side of the top visibly sagg[ed] before the other", indicate that "sagging" itself cannot be used as evidence to negate the likelihood or fact that there was a controlled demolition?

litus posted on 2009-03-28 13:31:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1634. To: war (#1625)

postpunk posted on 2009-03-28 13:32:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1635. To: Original_Intent, TooConservative, Wudidiz, christine, Rotara, TwentyTwelve, bluegrass, HOUNDDAWG, war (#1615)
If we compare the collapse of building 7 to known instances of explosive demolitions of buildings the observable similarity is one of the most striking aspects of the building 7 collapse.

Every builder/tradesman to whom I've shown the WTC 7 collapse video immediately falls off the fence. It's funny how those who make their living building things can see the utter BS that is the Official Fairy Tale once they see the evidence that's been actively hidden from us hoi polloi.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-28 13:40:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1636. To: TooConservative (#1588)
Trutherism or anti-Trutherism

Odd how 9/11 turned truth into an "ism".
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-28 13:42:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1637. To: Original_Intent (#1624)
At this point the most you do is quibble and throw up whatever hoping it will stick as you continue to try to defend the Official Fairy Tale.
How much DO they pay you?

Seriously.
What's the going rate for a National Globalist Party shill these days ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 13:45:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1638. To: litus (#1632)
We have eyewitness accounts that tell us specifically that building 7 was demolished.
Anyone that is pushing anything else is the enemy within. What do we do with the enemy within ?
We better get to it.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 13:48:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1639. To: Rotara (#1638)
Anyone that is pushing anything else is the enemy within. What do we do with the enemy within ?
We better get to it.

There's so many now, I don't know if there's enough rope any longer!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 13:52:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1640. To: litus (#1639)
There's so many now, I don't know if there's enough rope any longer!

Top down and eliminate any tool that gets in the way.
When the military is deployed they're going to have to take sides.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 13:56:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1641. To: Rotara (#1640)
When the military is deployed they're going to have to take sides.

If you're talking about those in the military, some already have:
http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/

litus posted on 2009-03-28 13:58:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1642. To: litus (#1641)
Should be interesting.
If they decide to go with the globalists it's going to be bloody, short and THE END. imo
We can 'hunt deer' all day long but when entire neighborhoods get burnt down..I'm just sayin'.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 14:01:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1643. To: Rotara (#1642)
They're planning for that. Why else do you think there is this "new" GIVE Program...except to "take" the children/youth and indoctrinate them? Hitler's youth program also started out as voluntary, but eventually became mandatory. The brainwashing effects could be seen within as short a time period as three years...perhaps earlier, given the decayed state of American families, morals, values, and ethics.

litus posted on 2009-03-28 14:09:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1644. To: postpunk (#1634)
hehehe..in their own words...thanks for posting these, postpunk.

christine posted on 2009-03-28 14:22:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1645. To: war, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve (#1625)
What is also interesting is when the BBC stated WTC 7 had collapsed, while they were live on air, but it was visibly still standing in the background behind the reporter. Now, how could a reporter report the collapse of a particular building so "prophetically"?

litus posted on 2009-03-28 14:25:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1646. To: litus, James Deffenbach (#1645)
What is also interesting is when the BBC stated WTC 7 had collapsed, while they were live on air, but it was visibly still standing in the background behind the reporter. Now, how could a reporter report the collapse of a particular building so "prophetically"?

LOL !
It's as much fun as the Magickal Jet Fuel^TM !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 14:32:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1647. To: Rotara, James Deffenbach, Original_Intent (#1646)
It's as much fun as the Magickal Jet FuelTM !

That one's a knee slapper. The "Coincidence Theorists" belief that everything bad in the whole wide world occurs "coincidentally" is almost as funny.
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-28 14:37:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1648. To: litus (#1645)
Now, how could a reporter report the collapse of a particular building so "prophetically"?

They are psychic?

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 14:42:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1649. To: litus (#1647)
You really have to love big illegal shadow governance to deny the facts.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 14:43:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1650. To: TwentyTwelve (#1648)
That must be it! And from a continent away. Those vibes must have been quite strong!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 14:44:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1651. To: litus, war, Original_Intent (#1645)
What is also interesting is when the BBC stated WTC 7 had collapsed, while they were live on air, but it was visibly still standing in the background behind the reporter. Now, how could a reporter report the collapse of a particular building so "prophetically"?

www.prisonplanet.com/arti...y2007/260207building7.htm
BBC Reported WTC Building 7 Had Collapsed 20 Minutes Before It Fell
Video shows reporter talking about collapse with WTC 7 still standing in background
Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones Prison Planet Monday, February 26, 2007
An astounding video uncovered from the archives today shows the BBC reporting on the collapse of WTC Building 7 over twenty minutes before it fell at 5:20pm on the afternoon of 9/11. The incredible footage shows BBC reporter talking about the collapse of the Salomon Brothers Building while it remains standing in the live shot behind her head.
Minutes before the actual collapse of the building is due, the feed to the reporter mysteriously dies.
This amazing clip is currently carried on Google Video and you can watch it above but many expect it to be removed shortly. We are attempting to download an original copy from the source.

rattube.com/blog1/2007/02...-jumps-the-gun/trackback/
February 26, 2007 THE SMOKING GUN WTC7, BBC JUMPS THE GUN !!!
9/11 Building 7 Collapse - WTC7 23 Minute Warning - Salomon Brothers Building
BBC Error ! Huge smoking gun of pre-knowledge collapse of WTC7 *911blogger.com
“On September 11th 2001, BBC World reported at 4:57pm Eastern Time that the Salomon Brothers Building (more commonly known as WTC7 or World Trade Building 7) had collapsed.
This even made the 5pm EST headlines, what is bizarre is that the building did not actually collapse until 5:20pm EST.
9/11 was unusual enough, without BBC World being able to foretell the destiny of WTC 7.
What is even stranger, is that the women reporter is telling the world that the building had collapsed when you can see it in the background over her left shoulder.

www.prisonplanet.com/arti...y2007/260207building7.htm
BBC Reported Building 7 Had Collapsed 20 Minutes Before It Fell
Revealing, shocking video shows reporter talking about collapse with WTC 7 still standing in background, Google removes clip
Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones Prison Planet Monday, February 26, 2007 (UPDATED 7:58PM CST)
An astounding video uncovered from the archives today shows the BBC reporting on the collapse of WTC Building 7 over twenty minutes before it fell at 5:20pm on the afternoon of 9/11. The incredible footage shows BBC reporter Jane Standley talking about the collapse of the Salomon Brothers Building while it remains standing in the live shot behind her head.

www.prisonplanet.com/arti...007/270207bbcresponds.htm BBC Responds to Building 7 Controversy; Claim 9/11 Tapes Lost
Pathetic five paragraph blog rebuttal does not answer questions as to source of report that Salomon Building was coming down, BBC claims tapes lost due to "cock-up" not conspiracy
Paul Joseph Watson Prison Planet Tuesday, February 27, 2007
The BBC has been forced to respond to footage showing their correspondent reporting the collapse of WTC 7 before it fell on 9/11, claiming tapes from the day are somehow missing, and refusing to identify the source for their bizarre act of "clairvoyance" in accurately pre-empting the fall of Building 7.
Here is the BBC's response to the questions about the footage that was unearthed yesterday, with my comments after each statement.

www.prisonplanet.com/arti...2007/270207bbcslammed.htm
BBC Slammed Over Pathetic Response to Building 7 Controversy
Prison Planet Tuesday, February 27, 2007
The BBC are getting slammed by respondants to the head of BBC World News Richard Porter's pathetic attempt to dismiss questions about the Building 7 controversy, in which a BBC correspondent reported the collapse of WTC 7 before it happened on 9/11.

www.prisonplanet.com/arti...y2007/280207timestamp.htm
Time Stamp Confirms BBC Reported WTC 7 Collapse 26 Minutes In Advance
Debunkers' claims about blue screens, inconclusive time frame of Jane Standley footage eviscerated
Paul Joseph Watson Prison Planet Wednesday, February 28, 2007
If there was any remaining doubt that the BBC reported the collapse of Building 7 over 20 minutes before it fell then it has now evaporated with the discovery of footage from the BBC's News 24 channel that shows the time stamp at 21:54 (4:54PM EST) when news of the Salomon Brothers Building is first broadcast, a full 26 minutes in advance of its collapse.
Watch the clip below.
According to FEMA, WTC 7 collapsed at 5:20pm on the afternoon of 9/11. Since British Summer Time is five hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time, the BBC reported the collapse of Building 7 at 4:54PM EST, a full 26 minutes before it collapsed.

infowars.net/articles/february2007/280207BBC.htm
BBC Has Lost Tapes Of 21st Century's Defining Moment
9/11 coverage gone due to "cock up". Why is this not a world news headline?
Steve Watson Infowars.net Wednesday, February 28, 2007
It has come to light this week that the most pre-eminent broadcasting company in the world has lost the original recordings of its output for the entire day on September 11th 2001, just over five years on, yet no major news agency has even bothered to report the fact.
Despite being currently the biggest story on the internet and in the alternative media, the only place in the mainstream the story has appeared is on a small German news website.
This highlights the fact that the mainstream media is not free to report events. The information it disseminates is strictly controlled and regulated.

www.prisonplanet.com/arti...rch2007/010307santafe.htm
Santa Fe New Mexican Covers BBC Building 7 Controversy
Devin Green
Santa Fe New Mexican
Thursday, March 1, 2007
As today is my last day setting the homepage for The Santa Fe New Mexican I thought I would bid you all farewell. I resigned two weeks ago to better pursue my personal interests. It is to my great amusement however that this day coincides with an astonishing story to share in this blog. There is an uproar rising across the Internet over what is being called yet another blatant, 9/11 smoking gun.
Early this week an independent researcher, reviewing video archives of the BBC's 9/11 coverage, divulged the discovery of an earth shaking incongruence. BBC reporters announced the collapse of the 47 story Salomon Brothers Building 23 minutes BEFORE the actual sudden collapse. This building, also known as WTC 7, is clearly visible, standing tall, as a reporter gestures to the live view through the window behind her.

BBC Building 7 Controversy Reported on by Norweigan Newspaper
www.nettavisen.no/verden/article916614.ece

www.wtc7.net/foreknowledge.html
Foreknowledge of WTC 7's Collapse
More than a score of New York City Fire Department members have recounted receiving warnings of the collapse of Building 7 starting about an hour and a half before the 5:20 PM collapse. Many of these are described here.
The BBC Bombshell
Archived footage of television broadcasts from 9/11/2001 shows the BBC reporting the collapse of WTC 7 about 23 minutes before it actually occurred.
BBC News correspondent Jane Standley reports that the Salomon Brothers' Building (WTC 7) has collapsed, unaware that the intact building is clearly visible behind her.

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theed...rt_of_the_conspiracy.html
Part of the conspiracy?
* Richard Porter * 27 Feb 07, 05:12 PM
The 9/11 conspiracy theories are pretty well known by now. The BBC addressed them earlier this month with a documentary, The Conspiracy Files, shown within the UK.
BBC World logo Until now, I don't think we've been accused of being part of the conspiracy. But now some websites are using news footage from BBC World on September 11th 2001 to suggest we were actively participating in some sort of attempt to manipulate the audience. As a result, we're now getting lots of emails asking us to clarify our position. So here goes:

crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/
Thursday, March 01, 2007
BBC RESPONDS WITHOUT INVESTIGATING / SEND A COMPLAINT
FIRST INQUIRY:
Dear BBC,
The head of your division, Richard Porter has just given the world a disgraceful response to a matter of enormous importance and seriousness.
*******

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 14:46:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1652. To: TwentyTwelve, Rotara, litus, all (#1648)
They are psychic?

Probably had lessons from Dione Warwick.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 14:46:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1653. To: Rotara (#1649)
You really have to love big illegal shadow governance to deny the facts.

and believe everything .gov tells you, despite the fact that .gov has been proven corrupt liars, indifferent of the Constitution and will of the People, over and over and over again.

litus posted on 2009-03-28 14:46:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1654. To: litus, war, Original_Intent (#1645)
What is also interesting is when the BBC stated WTC 7 had collapsed, while they were live on air, but it was visibly still standing in the background behind the reporter. Now, how could a reporter report the collapse of a particular building so "prophetically"?

www.whatreallyhappened.com/bbc_wtc7_videos.html
The videos below show the BBC World broadcast.
[15.6 MB WMV full video]
[22 MB QuickTime file of relevent portions] [15 MB QuickTime file of relevent portions]

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 14:48:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1655. To: TwentyTwelve (#1651)
An astounding video uncovered from the archives today shows the BBC reporting on the collapse of WTC Building 7 over twenty minutes before it fell at 5:20pm on the afternoon of 9/11. The incredible footage shows BBC reporter talking about the collapse of the Salomon Brothers Building while it remains standing in the live shot behind her head.

Minutes before the actual collapse of the building is due, the feed to the reporter mysteriously dies.
[Just another one of those "coincidences" ya know]

bump!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 14:48:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1656. To: TwentyTwelve (#1654)
thanks for link. I've been wanting to resave the longer version of that BBC video but didn't know where to find it.
bookmarked.

litus posted on 2009-03-28 14:51:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1657. To: James Deffenbach (#1652)
lol

That was pretty funny, James.

litus posted on 2009-03-28 14:52:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1658. To: TwentyTwelve, litus, Original_Intent, christine, James Deffenbach, Jethro Tull, Axenolith, F16Fighter (#1651)
I wonder how the BBC could have known ??? -end searing sarcasm-

Business élitists' mission to take over the BBC (09Apr02 - BBC block staff access to this website - www.bilderberg.org)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 14:53:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1659. To: James Deffenbach (#1652)
LOL !!
"purnt 68"

How yuu dur'n ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 14:55:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1660. To: litus (#1657)
Glad you liked it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 14:55:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1661. To: Rotara (#1659)
LOL !!
"purnt 68"
How yuu dur'n ?

I reckon I am dur'n alright but would be doin' better if my blood was purnt 68. ahaha. Oh well, tell your mama and them I axed how they wuz dur'n, ok?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 14:57:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1662. To: litus (#1653)
indifferent of the Constitution and will of the People, over and over and over again.

I would not characterize it as 'indifference' myself. IMO, it's a direct assault from within and without. They're killing us.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 14:57:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1663. To: Rotara, TwentyTwelve, Original_Intent, christine, James Deffenbach, Jethro Tull, Axenolith, F16Fighter (#1658)
I wonder how the BBC could have known ???

litus posted on 2009-03-28 14:58:40 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1664. To: James Deffenbach (#1661)
ehehe

Isle axem alight

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 14:58:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1665. To: litus (#1663)
LOL

I miss Johnny and I miss that bit. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 14:59:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1666. To: Rotara (#1662)
I would not characterize it as 'indifference' myself. IMO, it's a direct assault from within and without. They're killing us.

I was just being nice. Some people have a hard enough time with stating that .gov is deliberately going against the American people, without adding the words "killing us" to it (though that appears to be true, in a variety of ways).

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:02:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1667. To: James Deffenbach (#1660)
Please feel free to sprinkle laughter about...without that, there'd be no other recourse but to cry. : )

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:04:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1668. To: Rotara (#1665)
I do as well. Especially his Great Carnac skit. A funny guy, and there'll never be another like him.

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:05:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1669. To: litus (#1666)
I was just being nice.

I like your 'nice', you're a prize indeed. I mean that sincerely. I hope you keep posting until you can't or are prohibited to do so.
***
I believe someone has to walk your side of the road your way and others on the same road going the same way have to be very blunt and wake people the eff up.
IMO

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:07:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1670. To: litus (#1667)
Please feel free to sprinkle laughter about...without that, there'd be no other recourse but to cry. : )

Fry Dat Chicken...You Hear Me?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:08:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1671. To: litus (#1668)
I do as well. Especially his Great Carnac skit. A funny guy, and there'll never be another like him.

We're getting really old amigo.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:08:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1672. To: Rotara (#1669)
ty, Rotara. I appreciate your comment.
As far as your take on the "methods": "I believe someone has to walk your side of the road your way and others on the same road going the same way have to be very blunt and wake people the eff up," I agree with that, too. There's all kinds of people who need to hear things different ways. Even one person likely needs to hear similar, not identical, information in a variety of ways and manners before they 'get it'. I think it's just how our brains are wired, or something.

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:12:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1673. To: litus (#1672)
I agree. Keep truckin' brother. Or sister. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:17:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1674. To: James Deffenbach (#1670)
OMG, fofl! That was too funny.
James, now don't take this personally, but I'm beginning to wonder about you...that you'd have even "found" that one in the first place. : )

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:19:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1675. To: Rotara (#1671)
We're getting really old amigo.

Yeah...but, as they say, "we're not getting older, just wiser."
I wish I knew what I know now and could go back to my youth and start over.
*sigh*

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:21:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1676. To: litus (#1674)
LOL! No need to wonder about me. I am straight as a razor and you can "ax" my girlfriend about that. Or you could if you knew her, ahaha.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:22:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1677. To: James Deffenbach (#1676)
I am straight as a razor and you can "ax" my girlfriend about that. Or you could if you knew her, ahaha.

LOLOL! (I wonder if I should feel sorry for your gf? j/k)
Thanks for the laughs today. : )

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:23:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1678. To: litus (#1675)
I wish I knew what I know now and could go back to my youth and start over.

Don't we all?! I can think of a good many things I would have done differently if I could do it over.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:23:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1679. To: Rotara (#1673)
Keep truckin' brother. Or sister. ;-)

Ditto.
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:24:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1680. To: litus (#1677)
You're welcome.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:24:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1681. To: James Deffenbach, litus (#1678)
I wish I knew what I know now and could go back to my youth and start over.
Don't we all?! I can think of a good many things I would have done differently if I could do it over.

What age would you go back to ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:26:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1682. To: James Deffenbach (#1678)
I can think of a good many things I would have done differently if I could do it over.

Too many. Maybe we'll wake up one day and just be perfect? : )

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:26:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1683. To: Rotara (#1681)
What age would you go back to ?

20 I think.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:27:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1684. To: Rotara, James Deffenbach (#1681)
19, if I were in the same circumstances. Likely older if they were different. You?

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:28:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1685. To: litus (#1682)
Too many. Maybe we'll wake up one day and just be perfect? : )

Yes, but I don't think it will happen in this life.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:28:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1686. To: James Deffenbach (#1685)
No. So that means our continued imperfections will just have to be put up with, lol!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:29:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1687. To: litus, James Deffenbach (#1684)
20 & 19

I'd go back to 15.
There was this older catholic girl that stole my...ah never mind. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:29:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1688. To: Rotara (#1687)
haaaaa!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:31:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1689. To: All (#1687)

People's Forum - People's Temple BTTT

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:32:48 ET (2 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1690. To: litus (#1686)
No. So that means our continued imperfections will just have to be put up with, lol!

Yeah, and in the meantime we can laugh a bit.
BBQ Rat with Cone Bread
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:33:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1691. To: Rotara (#1687)
I'd go back to 15.
There was this older catholic girl that stole my...ah never mind. ;-)

LOL! Your heart, no doubt.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:34:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1692. To: James Deffenbach (#1690)
GETTO BAR B Q??!!

"someone pass me the ribs before I cuss"
FOFL! What, does this guy have a whole repertoire of songs??? hehehe

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:35:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1693. To: litus (#1692)
He has several. I don't know how many, haven't watched them all.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:37:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1694. To: James Deffenbach (#1693)
haven't watched them all.

Okay, I'm feeling better about you now. lol!!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:39:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1695. To: litus (#1692)
"someone pass me the ribs before I cuss"
FOFL! What, does this guy have a whole repertoire of songs??? hehehe

You can find me in the tub, playin' with bubbles and washin' my booty
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-28 15:41:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1696. To: James Deffenbach (#1690)
BBQ Rat with Cone Bread

LOL !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:43:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1697. To: James Deffenbach (#1691)
LOL! Your heart, no doubt.

Yes, yes..my heart of course, of course !! ;-) ehehe

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:44:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1698. To: James Deffenbach (#1695)
This guy needs help, lol!! He needs a rubber ducky in the tub? : )

litus posted on 2009-03-28 15:44:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1699. To: James Deffenbach (#1695)
"I'm gonna wash my bootay for awhile.."

FOFLOL !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:46:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1700. To: All (#1699)
seventeenhunnerd

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:46:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1701. To: litus (#1698)
This guy needs help, lol!! He needs a rubber ducky in the tub? : )

I never eat on an empty stomach. DOH !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 15:47:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1702. To: Rotara (#1701)
Oh boy....I think I'll just let that one go, lol!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 16:05:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1703. To: litus (#1702)
I would !

....LOL !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-28 16:12:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1704. To: Rotara (#1703)
lol!
You're too quick, that's for sure.
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-28 16:14:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1705. To: litus (#1645)
So they misreported...so what? That's evidence of a conspiracy?
And I was accused of grasping at straws...

war posted on 2009-03-28 19:52:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1706. To: war (#1705)
Pretty good clairvoyance at their "misreporting".
Imagine that..."misreporting" on the very building that went down 25 minutes later.

litus posted on 2009-03-28 19:56:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1707. To: war, litus, Rotara, wudidiz, Original_Intent ALL (#1705)
...so what?

So what?
Duh.
The NWO media reported the collapse of WTC7 before it collapsed.
All you can say is so what?
You should be outraged!

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 19:57:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1708. To: TwentyTwelve, war, Rotara, wudidiz, Original_Intent (#1707)
So what?
Duh.
The NWO media reported the collapse of WTC7 before it collapsed.
All you can say is so what?

The sky is blue.
lololol!!!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 20:00:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1709. To: postpunk (#1634)
That guy is a moron...the left side of that building had CLEARLY begun to sag on the top left side in frame 30.
Also. in the NIST guy in Part II states that it was the time that 7 disappeared behind the two buildings...that is NOT when it was done falling.
More smoke and mirrors...

war posted on 2009-03-28 20:01:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1710. To: war, postpunk (#1709)
the left side of that building had CLEARLY begun to sag on the top

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 20:03:10 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1711. To: TwentyTwelve (#1707)
The day was one big ball of confusion, moonie. You accuse the media of getting it wrong on a good day...
That said, what in the fuck do you believe that this proves?
When are you going to answer my questions? What are you afraid of?

war posted on 2009-03-28 20:04:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1712. To: TwentyTwelve (#1710)
Thanks...so you agree with me for a change...

war posted on 2009-03-28 20:05:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1713. To: war (#1711)
The day was one big ball of confusion, moonie

Eight-years later and YOU are still confused!

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 20:05:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1714. To: TwentyTwelve (#1713)
Riiight...because we know that the media gets EVERYTHING right 100% of the time...especially during times of mass confusion...they are the Omnipotent and Omnipresent Beacon of All Things Right...

war posted on 2009-03-28 20:42:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1715. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#1714)
Riiight...because we know that the media gets EVERYTHING right 100% of the time...especially during times of mass confusion...they are the Omnipotent and Omnipresent Beacon of All Things Right...

No, we know the media gets everything wrong. In fact, the weathermen can't even accurately predict rain.
But "somehow" by some "miracle," the BBC clarevoyantly predicted the fall of WTC7, and went on and on discussing Solomon Brothers....all while the building remained standing, for over 25 minutes prior to it actually happening.
And not to be undone by this "feat", the feed "mysteriously" disconnected right at the very time that the WTC7 was falling

Nosiree....nothing smells there! It's all just another one of the 9/11 coinkydinks!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 20:54:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1716. To: litus (#1715)
9/11 Troofers: The Media Is ALL KNOWING...WE TRUST THE MEDIA...

war posted on 2009-03-28 20:55:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1717. To: war (#1716)
"somehow" by some "miracle," the BBC clarevoyantly predicted the fall of WTC7, and went on and on discussing Solomon Brothers....all while the building remained standing, for over 25 minutes prior to it actually happening.

Your responses to the above are beyond laughable; they're pathetic and lame.

litus posted on 2009-03-28 20:56:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1718. To: war (#1716)
How much do they pay your illiterate ass? Is it worth it?
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-28 21:01:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1719. To: litus (#1717)
If only because I am not a member of the media...which is never wrong and always correct and can always be counted on in a crisis for 100% accuracy.
WE LOVE THE MEDIA...

war posted on 2009-03-28 21:21:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1720. To: war (#1719)
not to be undone by this "feat", the feed "mysteriously" disconnected right at the very time that the WTC7 was falling

litus posted on 2009-03-28 21:22:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1721. To: RickyJ (#1718)
Chuckles...yea dude...I am just so OVERWHELMED by you fools.
These "Troofer" threads are the easiest pickings on the internet. None of you, to a person, realize how FUCKING stupid you sound.
That's En Oh En Ee of you...

war posted on 2009-03-28 21:26:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1722. To: litus (#1720)
***GASP***

war posted on 2009-03-28 21:27:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1723. To: war (#1722)
Two more lame posts from you.
"surprise, surprise"
lol!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 21:32:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1724. To: litus (#1723)
Yea...I have a long way to go to catch up to all of you...

war posted on 2009-03-28 21:40:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1725. To: war (#1724)
Keep telling yourself that.
lol!!

litus posted on 2009-03-28 21:45:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1726. To: war (#1721)
None of you, to a person, realize how FUCKING stupid you sound.

None of you, to a person, realize how OBVIOUS you look.
If it looks like a shill and smells like a shill......

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 21:50:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1727. To: war (#1721)
Chuckles...yea dude...I am just so OVERWHELMED by you fools.

Laugh now, cry later, you traitor.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-28 21:50:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1728. To: litus, war (#1723)
Two more lame posts from you.
"surprise, surprise"
lol!

At least he (war) is consistent.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-28 21:52:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1729. To: RickyJ (#1727) (Edited)
tHe traitor war has been on bozo for weeks so he's talking to himself as far as I'm concerned ..as hjas FERRET AND ALL THE OTHER TRAITORS
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-03-28 21:54:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1730. To: TwentyTwelve (#1728)
true dat.

litus posted on 2009-03-28 21:56:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1731. To: RickyJ (#1727)
eez...yet one more lame post I need to catch up to...

war posted on 2009-03-28 21:59:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1732. To: TwentyTwelve (#1728)
I strive to be more consistent than your answers to my questions, Moonie...
So far I haven't had to do anything...

war posted on 2009-03-28 22:00:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1733. To: TwentyTwelve, litus, RickyJ, FormerLurker, Original Intent (#1726)
When a Moonbat says "YOU CANNOT TRUST THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA!!!!" he really means: "Unless it supports some Moonbat blathering."
When a Moonbat says: "THE FACT THAT THE TOWERS FELL AT FREE FALL SPEED MEANS THAT THEY WERE BLOWED UP!!!" he can also say "THE FACT THAT THE TOWERS DID NOT FALL AT FREE FALL SPEED MEANS THAT THEY WERE BLOWED-UP!!!"
When a Moonbat says: "THE PLANES DID NOT EXPLODE INSIDE THE TOWERS!!!" He can also say: "THOSE PLANES WERE PULVERIZED AS THEY TORE THROUGH THE TOWERS!!!"
A Moonbat can say: "THEY CLAIMED THAT JET FUEL BROUGHT DOWN THOSE TOWERS!!!!" When no-one has said that jet fuel brought down the Towers. A Moonbat can say: THE GOOBERMINT CLAIMS THAT TOWERS PANCAKED!!!" when in fact the NIST states, unequivocally, that the Towers did not pancake.

war posted on 2009-03-29 9:16:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1734. To: war (#1733) (Edited)
When war says, "I AM NOT A TRAITOR", what he really means is, that HE is not a traitor to the NWO!
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-29 9:31:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1735. To: war, TwentyTwelve, RickyJ, FormerLurker, Original Intent (#1733)
And .gov can tell FAIRY STORIES and people like you believe them...all of them, regardless of the fact that .gov has shown itself to be duplicitous, acting contrary to the Rule of Law, trampling over the Constitution, acting as tyrants rather than servants to the People, whose will .gov ignores.

litus posted on 2009-03-29 11:03:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1736. To: RickyJ (#1734)
When war says, "I AM NOT A TRAITOR", what he really means is, that HE is not a traitor to the NWO!

The difference here is that your "argument" HAS to put words into my mouth when al I have done above is repeat what yinz have already said.

war posted on 2009-03-30 7:49:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1737. To: litus (#1735)
And .gov can tell FAIRY STORIES and people like you believe them...all of them, regardless of the fact that .gov has shown itself to be duplicitous, acting contrary to the Rule of Law, trampling over the Constitution, acting as tyrants rather than servants to the People, whose will .gov ignores.

Which doesn't mean that the NIST report is incorrect.

war posted on 2009-03-30 7:50:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1738. To: sneakypete (#28) (Edited)
"I think that unless the NWO does take over we will eventually end up nuking several Muslim countries."

Sheeesh, you gotta be kidding me, Pete. After the way we fought Iraq with kid gloves, how can you say we're gonna use nuclear weapons on Iran or Syria? If we go into either country--and I have my doubts that we will--we'll go in using conventional forces...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-03-30 9:42:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1739. To: Mudboy Slim (#1738)
If we go into either country--and I have my doubts that we will--we'll go in using conventional forces...MUD

Anyone dopey enough to obey an order by Obama to fight in one of these nations deserves to come home in a box.

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-30 9:50:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1740. To: Jethro Tull (#1739)
Depends upon what Iran does...regarding their nukes, I wouldn't be surprised to see some bunkerbusters dropped on Iran's production facilities...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-03-30 10:09:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1741. To: Mudboy Slim (#1740)
regarding their nukes

So Israel is the only nation in the ME who should be nuclear armed?

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-30 10:10:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1742. To: Jethro Tull (#1741)
I definitely believe Iran ought not be allowed to obtain nukes...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-03-30 10:30:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1743. To: Mudboy Slim (#1742)
I have a problem with the government telling other sovereign nations what they can and can't have. We have nukes and have used them. It isn't that I give a rat's @$$ about Iran and maybe we should have lit them up when they held our people hostage when Carter was president. But we didn't and so far as I know they have not committed further acts of aggression against us.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-30 10:38:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1744. To: Mudboy Slim (#1742)
I definitely believe Iran ought not be allowed to obtain nukes...MUD

But it's OK for Israel to have them?

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-30 11:05:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1745. To: war (#1737) (Edited)
Which doesn't mean that the NIST report is incorrect.

At this point, for me to believe anything that .gov says, they have to prove they're not lying. Short of that I don't trust it or believe it about anything, as far as I can spit.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 11:07:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1746. To: litus (#1745)
I don't base my opinions on misanthropy. I base them on facts...what is proveable...what is not...

war posted on 2009-03-30 11:18:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1747. To: war (#1746)
I base them on facts...what is proveable...what is not...

And how many more times does government and the politicians of the U.S. have to prove to you their level of lies, corruption, and willful disregard to the Rule of Law and the Constitution of the United States of America for you to begin to wonder about their motivations and statements?

litus posted on 2009-03-30 11:41:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1748. To: litus (#1747)
To war: And how many more times does government and the politicians of the U.S. have to prove to you their level of lies, corruption, and willful disregard to the Rule of Law and the Constitution of the United States of America for you to begin to wonder about their motivations and statements?

"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest."

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 11:44:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1749. To: litus (#1747)
And how many more times does government and the politicians of the U.S. have to prove to you their level of lies, corruption, and willful disregard to the Rule of Law and the Constitution of the United States of America for you to begin to wonder about their motivations and statements?

I don't have "to wonder" about them at all. It's all about money.
Which, of course, does not man that 9/11 was an "inside job".

war posted on 2009-03-30 11:52:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1750. To: TwentyTwelve (#1748)
Feel free to asnwer any of the questions that have been posed to you.
Thanks.

war posted on 2009-03-30 11:54:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1751. To: TwentyTwelve (#1748)
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest."

bump!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 12:13:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1752. To: litus (#1751)
He saw it and is sitting there considering the irpony of his statement.

war posted on 2009-03-30 12:24:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1753. To: war (#1752)
With your kind of "logic", General George Washington and those under his command, would have been in error to suspect and question the veracity of: 1) intelligence gathered, 2) data compiled, 3) evidence presented, 4) and statements made by Benedict Arnold, even after he was proved to be traitor.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 12:31:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1754. To: war (#1752)
Prince Faisal bin Salman issued a statement April 30 that said he wants to clear the name of his late brother, Prince Ahmed bin Salman, who in a book was tied to al-Qaeda and said to have knowledge of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. Prince Ahmed headed The Thoroughbred Corp., owner of War Emblem, winner of the 2002 Kentucky Derby (gr. I). He died later that year.
In the statement released from Riyadh in Saudi Arabia via the PRNewswire, Prince Faisal said he plans a "concerted effort" to clear his brother's name and reputation. The statement reads:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/22222/brother-looks-to-clear- name-of-prince-ahmed-salman?id=22222
Speaking of 9/11, I recently heard this Kentucky Derby connection/allegation with the owner of your big Derby horse winner. I'm just saying...
He died of a heart attack at age 43.

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-03-30 12:54:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1755. To: Fred Mertz (#1754)
What do you know anyway, baldy?
Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-30 13:00:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1756. To: TwentyTwelve (#1748)
And how many more times does government and the politicians of the U.S. have to prove to you their level of lies, corruption, and willful disregard to the Rule of Law and the Constitution of the United States of America for you to begin to wonder about their motivations and statements?

You MUST accept that the events and behavior of buildings on 911 were all anomalies, having never happened before and probably will never happen again. Too bad if they defied common sense. LIVE WITH IT.!!!!!!!!!!!!!/s
LOLOLOL
I KNOW I will never work or even enter another high rise if I can possibly help it since they seem to be able to collapse and pulverize themselves when there is a fire on one or two of the floors. And the "all knowing gov" doesn't seem the least bit concerned about it.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 13:03:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1757. To: war (#1752)
This report was carried at "about 4:15 eastern daylight time" (according to the anchor), over an hour before the building actually collapsed at 5:20. Who told them the WTC 7 building "has either collapsed or is collapsing."? Keep in mind he did not say it was going to collapse, he said it either had or was in the process of doing so. The anchor says is "we are getting information now", who is giving him this information? If you pay close attention you can see after the anchor announces this he turns around and sees the building as clear as day still standing, he then proceeds to backtrack on the initial information which informed him clearly the building "has either collapsed or is collapsing."

litus posted on 2009-03-30 13:06:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1758. To: war (#1752)
This is the BBC (it is edited to show you, with arrows and timestamps).

litus posted on 2009-03-30 13:08:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1759. To: litus, war (#1758)
This is the BBC (it is edited to show you, with arrows and timestamps).

How much easier can you make it for him (war)?

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 13:15:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1760. To: mininggold (#1756)
You MUST accept that the events and behavior of buildings on 911 were all anomalies, having never happened before and probably will never happen again.

I hope you are right.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 13:18:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1761. To: war (#1752)
He saw it and is sitting there considering the irpony of his statement.

Don't you work in a highrise? I believe I have heard you make this claim. Aren't you afraid it will collapse and pulverize you to smithereens if there is a fire?
Every high rise in the US needs to be red tagged for this potential threat if built before this trait could be engineered out of the plans.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 13:24:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1762. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1759)
How much easier can you make it for him (war)?

I have no idea! : )

litus posted on 2009-03-30 13:27:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1763. To: mininggold (#1761)
Don't you work in a highrise?

Nope...14 story building...
I LEFT my old job because a) it was a high rise and b) had a view directly into the gut of hell...
And, FWIW, and whatthe Moonbats won't mention is that my old building 1 Liberty Plaza, which stands directly across from where WTC1 was, was reported to be on the verge of collapse. For the record, it is still standing and fully occupied.

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:31:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1764. To: TwentyTwelve (#1760)
I hope you are right.

The problem is, is the government is acting like that is the scenario. Lots of anomalies all on one day but it's still just a slightly less than normal day in paradise. Play proper respects for the dead and then get back to shopping. Oh, and lets go to war again.
I really shouldn't have laughed.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 13:32:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1765. To: litus (#1753)
With your kind of "logic", General George Washington and those under his command, would have been in error to suspect and question the veracity of: 1) intelligence gathered, 2) data compiled, 3) evidence presented, 4) and statements made by Benedict Arnold, even after he was proved to be traitor.

Did you inhale some sort of noxious and toxic fumes over a long period of time at some point in your life?
That asked...let's cut to the chase here...detail your 9/11 scenario so that it may be subjected to testing...
Thanks...

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:34:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1766. To: Fred Mertz (#1754)
Interesting...

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:35:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1767. To: litus (#1762)
How much easier can you make it for him (war)?
I have no idea! : )

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 13:36:56 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1768. To: TwentyTwelve (#1767)
fofl!!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 13:39:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1769. To: mininggold (#1756)
You MUST accept that the events and behavior of buildings on 911 were all anomalies, having never happened before and probably will never happen again. Too bad if they defied common sense. LIVE WITH IT.!!!!!!!!!!!!!/s

Feel free to take the challenge. Find me a building in thw worls that wasof the same hollow tube external support wall/truss support/inner core construction that a) was crashed into causing masive damage...b) suffered a massive internal explosion which rsulted in c) fires that burned out of control.
Or maybe you don;t know what the word "anamoly" means.
when there is a fire on one or two of the floors
You're claiming that fires in the WTC were limited to one or two floors?

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:39:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1770. To: war (#1766)
A friend xeroxed the pages from the book for me about ten days ago. With Posner being the source then I have my doubts. The Prince's love for horses and all things American also leads me to doubt the allegations.
But the three men that Posner allegedly fingered all died within 8 days of each other. That made me go Mmmmm??

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-03-30 13:39:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1771. To: war (#1765)
You rely upon .gov "facts, evidence, testimony, hearings, reports, and statements" and make the faulty presumption that all "evidence" presented was factual and true, all statements were made without suspect motivations and/or intent on the part of individuals or groups, and no omissions of facts or evidence in the dog and pony show hearings was beyond suspicion.
In summation: The fox has investigated the hen house.
The foxes have found for the foxes.
Ergo, .gov, .gov entities, .gov hearing participants, and .gov "facts", are taken as gospel by .gov, and, if you don't believe 'em, just ask 'em: they've "proven" to you "they're innocent."

That's just not how any kind of honorable or believable investigation can ever be made.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 13:47:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1772. To: litus (#1757)
Which proves what Moonbat? That some people thought WTC7 was going to collapse? You have FDNY on the records as pulling their guys out ofthe buildiomng because they were afraid it was going collpse.
FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro:
"The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC 7] building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt."[
Fire Engineering magazine, 10/2002]
"The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was [that] the collapse [Of the WTC towers] had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7 World Trade Center collapsed completely. http://tinyurl.com/g8c6y
1. We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors. –FDNY Lieutenant Robert Larocco
2. ...Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down. – FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn
3. I walked out and I got to Vesey and West, where I reported to Frank [Cruthers]. He said, we’re moving the command post over this way, that building’s coming down. At this point, the fire was going virtually on every floor, heavy fire and smoke that really wasn’t bothering us when we were searching because it was being pushed southeast and we were a little bit west of that. I remember standing just where West and Vesey start to rise toward the entrance we were using in the World Financial Center. There were a couple of guys standing with me and a couple of guys right at the intersection, and we were trying to back them up – and here goes 7. It started to come down and now people were starting to run. –FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/visconti.html
4. All morning I was watching 7 World Trade burn, which we couldn't do anything about because it was so much chaos looking for missing members. –Firefighter Marcel Klaes
5. When the building came down it was completely involved in fire, all forty- seven stories. –FDNY Assistant Chief Harry Myers (Smith, Dennis, 2002. Report From Ground Zero: The Heroic Story of the Rescuers at the World Trade Center. New York: Penguin Putnam. p. 160)
6. The concern there again, it was later in the afternoon, 2, 2:30, like I said. The fear then was Seven. Seven was free burning. Search had been made of 7 already from what they said so they had us back up to that point where we were waiting for 7 to come down to operate from the north back down. –Captain Robert Sohmer http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110472. PDF
7. Then we had to move because the Duane Reade, they said, wasn't safe because building 7 was really roaring. –FDNY Chief Medical Officer Kerry Kelly.
8. At this point Seven World Trade was going heavy, and they weren't letting anybody get too close. Everybody was expecting that to come down. –Firefighter Vincent Massa
9. Chief Cruthers told me that they had formed another command post up on Chambers Street. At this point there were a couple of floors burning on Seven World Trade Center. Chief McNally wanted to try and put that fire out, and he was trying to coordinate with the command post up on Chambers Street. This is after searching for a while. He had me running back and forth trying to get companies to go into Seven World Trade Center. His radio didn't seem to be working right either because he had me relaying information back and forth and Chief Cruthers had me --
Q. So everything was face-to-face? Nothing was by radio?
A. Yeah, and it was really in disarray. It really was in complete disarray. We never really got an operation going at Seven World Trade Center. –FDNY Captain Michael Donovan
10. Building #7 was still actively burning and at that time we were advised by a NYFD Chief that building #7 was burning out of control and imminent collapse was probable. –PAPD P.O. Edward McQuade http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa- transcripts/pa-police-reports02.pdf page 48.
11. At Vesey St. and West St., I could see that 7 WTC was ablaze and damaged, along with other buildings. –M. DeFilippis, PAPD P.O. http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa-police-reports03.pdf page 49
[Note: the fires in 7 were probably not mainly due to damage from the south tower, but from the north.] 12. So yeah then we just stayed on Vesey until building Seven came down. There was nothing we could do. The flames were coming out of every window of that building from the explosion of the south tower. So then building Seven came down. When that started coming down you heard that pancaking sound again everyone jumped up and starts.
Q: Why was building Seven on fire? Was that flaming debris from tower two, from tower two that fell onto that building and lit it on fire?
A: Correct. Because it really got going, that building Seven, saw it late in the day and like the first Seven floors were on fire. It looked like heavy fire on seven floors. It was fully engulfed, that whole building. There were pieces of tower two [sic: he probably means tower one] in building Seven and the corners of the building missing and what-not. But just looking up at it from ground level however many stories -- it was 40 some odd -- you could see the flames going straight through from one side of the building to the other, that’s an entire block. –Firefighter Tiernach Cassidy
13. "We were down about a block from the base of the World Trade Center towers about an hour ago. And there was a great deal of concern at that time, the firemen said building number 7 was going to collapse, building number five was in danger of collapsing. And there's so little they can do to try to fight the fires in these buildings, because the fires are so massive. And so much of the buildings continues to fall into the street. When you're down there, Dan, you hear smaller secondary explosions going off every 15 or 20 minutes, and so it's an extremely dangerous place to be." –CBS-TV News Reporter Vince DeMentri http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.secondary.explosions.wmv
14. Well, they said that's (7) fully involved at this time. This was a fully involved building. I said, all right, they're not coming for us for a while. Now you're trapped in this rubble, and you're trying to get a grasp of an idea of what's going on there. I heard on the handy talky that we are now fighting a 40-story building fully involved.
Now you're trapped in the rubble and the guys who are there are fighting the worst high-rise fire in the history of New York or history of the world, probably, I don't know, 40, story building fully involved, I guess that was probably the worst.
I was, needless to say, scared to death that something else was going to fall on us, that this building was going to come down and we were all going to die, after surviving the worst of it. [Note: I deleted the link this account, and searching the net for the text doesn’t turn up anything. This sounds like an account from north tower stairwell B survivor. Anyone who knows for sure, let me know.]
15. And 7 World Trade was burning up at the time. We could see it. ... the fire at 7 World Trade was working its way from the front of the building northbound to the back of the building. There was no way there could be water put on it, because there was no water in the area. –Firefighter Eugene Kelty Jr.
16. The time was approximately 11a.m. Both of the WTC towers were collapsed and the streets were covered with debris. Building #7 was still standing but burning. ...We spoke to with a FDNY Chief who has his men holed up in the US Post Office building. He informed us that the fires in building 7 were uncontrollable and that its collapse was imminent. There were no fires inside the loading dock (of 7) at this time but we could hear explosions deep inside. – PAPD P.O. William Connors http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa- police-reports04.pdf page 69
17. "There's number Seven World Trade. That's the OEM bunker." We had a snicker about that. We looked over, and it's engulfed in flames and starting to collapse.
We're kind of caught in traffic and people and things, and everything's going on. We hear over the fire portable, "Everybody evacuate the site. It's going to collapse." Mark Steffens starts yelling, "Get out of here! Get out of here! Get out of here! We've got to go! We've got to go! It's going to collapse." I turned around, and I piped up real loud and said, "Stay in the frigging car. Roll the windows up. It's pancake collapsing. We'll be fine. The debris will quit and the cloud will come through. Just stay in the car." We pulled the car over, turned around and just watched it pancake. We had a dust cloud but nothing like it was before. –Paramedic Louis Cook
(Building 7 fire makes rescuer of NT stairwell victim’s route impassable, just before collapse): I remember it was bad and I'm going to get to a point where we came back that way on the way up. We couldn't even go that way, that's how bad the fire was, but by the time I was coming back it was rolling, more than a couple of floors, just fully involved, rolling.
...So now it's us 4 and we are walking towards it and I remember it would have at one point been an easier path to go towards our right, but being building 7 - - that must have been building 7 I'm guessing with that fire, we decided to stay away from that because things were just crackling, falling and whatnot. So as I’m going back, that fire that was on my right is now on my left. I’m backtracking and that fire is really going and on the hike towards there, we put down our masks, which at this point started to realize maybe it would have been good thing if we had this mask on the way back, but then again between the fire and about halfway when I was on the way back, I got a radio call from the guys that we left and it was Johnny Colon the chauffeur of 43, who was effecting a different rescue. He was carrying somebody out.
He had called me and said “Hey Jerry don’t try and get back out the way you went in which was big heads up move because he said that building was rolling on top of the building that we were passing. That building was on fire and likely to collapse more too.
Between Picciotto asking me are you sure we can get out this way because it really didn’t look good with that fire and my guy telling me that you better not because of the area we crawled in was unattainable now too. ...we started going back the other way.
Q: Would that be towards West Street?
A: That would have been back towards what I know is the Winter Garden....[west] –Firefighter Gerard Suden
18. I remember Chief Hayden saying to me, "We have a six-story building over there, a seven-story building, fully involved." At that time he said, "7 has got fire on several floors." He said, "We've got a ten-story over there, another ten-story over there, a six-story over there, a 13-story over there." He just looked at me and said, "Fuck 'em all. Let 'em burn." He said, "Just tell the guys to keep looking for guys. Just keep looking for the brothers. We've got people trapped. We've got to get them out." –Lieutenant William Ryan
19. I walked around the building to get back to the command post and that's when they were waiting for 7 World Trade Center to come down. ...They had three floors of fire on three separate floors, probably 10, 11 and 15 it looked like, just burning merrily. It was pretty amazing, you know, it's the afternoon in lower Manhattan, a major high-rise is burning, and they said 'we know.' –FDNY Chief Thomas McCarthy
20. We were champing at the bit," says WCBS-TV reporter Vince DeMentri of his decision to sneak behind police barricades and report from 7 World Trade Center a half-hour before it collapsed. "I knew the story was in there." But after he and his cameraman slipped past officers, they lost all sense of direction. "From outside this zone, you could figure out where everything was," he says. "But inside, it was all destruction and blown-out buildings, and we had no clue. I walked into one building, but I had no idea where I was. The windows were all blown out. Computers, desks, furniture, and people's possessions were strewn all over." He found a picture of a little girl lying in the rubble. Then he realized that No. 7, aflame, was about fifteen to twenty feet ahead of him. "I looked up Barclay Street," he says. "There was nobody out. No bodies, no injured. Nobody. There were mounds of burning debris. It was like opening a broiler." http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/features/5183/index.html
21. They are worried that number 7 is burning and they are talking about not ceasing operations. –Deputy Commissioner Frank Gribbon
22. There were hundreds of firefighters waiting to -- they were waiting for 7 World Trade Center to come down as it was on fire. It was too dangerous to go in and fight the fire. –Assistant Commissioner James Drury
23. We assisted some FDNY personnel who were beginning to attempt to fight the fire at 7 WTC. We assisted in dragging hose they needed to bring water into the building. –Kenneth Kohlmann PAPD P.O. http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa- transcripts/pa-police-reports04.pdf page 26
24. My first thoughts when I came down a little further into the site, south of Chambers Street, was, "Where am I?" I didn't recognize it. Obviously, the towers were gone. The only thing that remained standing was a section of the Vista Hotel. Building 7 was on fire. That was ready to come down. –Charlie Vitchers, Ground Zero Superintendent http://www.pbs.org/americarebuilds/profiles/profiles_vitchers_t.html
25. The whole south side of Seven World Trade had been hit by the collapse of the second Tower, and there was fire on every floor." – Fire Captain Brenda Berkman (Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba, Women at Ground Zero, 2002, p. 213)
26. At that point, Seven World Trade had 12 stories of fire in it. They were afraid it was going to collapse on us, so they pulled everybody out. We couldn't do anything. – Firefighter Maureen McArdle-Schulman (Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba, Women at Ground Zero, 2002, p. 17)
27. The 7 World Trade Center was roaring. All we could think is we were an Engine Company, we have got to get them some water. We need some water you know. With that, we positioned the rig, I don't know, 3 quarters of a block away maybe. A fire boat was going to relay water to us. I don't know if I have things in the right order, whatever, if we were getting water out of a hydrant first. Jesus Christ -- Q. Captain said you were getting water. You were draining a vacuum? A. It was draining away from us. Right. We had to be augmented. I think that's when the fire boat came. I think the fire boats supplied us. Of course you don't see that. You just see the (inaudible) way and you know, we are hooking up and we wound up supplying the Tower Ladder there. I just remember feeling like helpless, like everybody there was doomed and there is -- I just felt like there was absolutely nothing we could do. I want to just go back a little bit.– Firefighter Kevin Howe
28. "When I got out and onto a clear pile, I see that 7 World Trade Center and the customs house have serious fire. Almost every window has fire. It is an amazing site. –Captain Jay Jonas, Ladder 6. (Dennis Smith. Report From Ground Zero. New York: Viking Penguin, 2002. P. 103)
29. Firefighter TJ Mundy: "The other building, #7, was fully involved, and he was worried about the next collapse." (Dennis Smith. Report From Ground Zero. New York: Viking Penguin, 2002.)
30. 7 World Trade was burning from the ground to the ceiling fully involved. It was unbelievable. –Firefighter Steve Modica http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/modica.html
31. So I attempted to get in through the Barkley Street ramp which is on Barkley (sic) and West Broadway, but I was being held back by the fire department, because 7 World Trade, which is above the ramp, was now fully engulfed. –PAPD K-9 Sergeant David Lim http://www.911report.com/media/davidlim.pdf
32. We could hear fires crackling. We didn’t know it at the time, but No. 7 World Trade Center and No. 5 World Trade Center were immediately adjacent to us and they were roaring, they were on fire. Those were the sounds that we were hearing. ...At the same time, No. 5 World Trade Center, No. 6 World Trade Center and No. 7 World Trade Center were roaring. They were on fire. And they were right next to us. So we have all that smoke that we’re dealing with. –FDNY Capt. Jay Jonas http://archive.recordonline.com/adayinseptember/jonas.htm

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:47:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1773. To: litus (#1771)
You rely upon .gov "facts, evidence, testimony, hearings, reports, and statements"

Nope and I challenge you to point to any conclusion that I have drawn as not being supported by a record independent of NIST - which, btw, is a very independent organization in and of itself.

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:49:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1774. To: war (#1769)
Or maybe you don;t know what the word "anamoly" means.

I still will use my common sense and not venture into tall US buildings that appear to be able to collapse in such a total fashion. Especially when, for all the tax money I pay, the gov couldn't even take out planes being piloted by amateurs. Afterall how many others are built similiarly and as a result are ticking time bombs waiting for the right circumstances.
I guess the overseas architects must be better at designing buildings that can withstand some stress, since non appeared to have collapsed in the same manner.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 13:50:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1775. To: litus (#1771)
In summation: The fox has investigated the hen house.
The foxes have found for the foxes.
Ergo, .gov, .gov entities, .gov hearing participants, and .gov "facts", are taken as gospel by .gov, and, if you don't believe 'em, just ask 'em: they've "proven" to you "they're innocent."

Dude...stay away from logic..it's so ill served in your hands...

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:50:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1776. To: mininggold (#1774)
I guess the overseas architects must be better at designing buildings that can withstand some stress, since non appeared to have collapsed in the same manner.

I'm sorry...the part where you provided a building of like constructon to WTC was deleted. Can you repost that please?
Thanks...

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:53:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1777. To: mininggold (#1774)
I guess the overseas architects

The designer of WTC was Japanese, moron.

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:55:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1778. To: litus (#1757)
Captain Chris Boyle Engine 94 - 18 years
Boyle: ...on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.
Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?
Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.
Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?
Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day. h ttp://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/boyle.html

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:57:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1779. To: litus (#1757)
Deputy Chief Peter Hayden Division 1 - 33 years
...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html

war posted on 2009-03-30 13:58:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1780. To: litus, TwentyTwelve, mininggold, FormerLurker, Original Inttent (#1757)
The photo you Moonbats will never post:

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:05:50 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1781. To: war (#1772)
That some people thought WTC7 was going to collapse? You have FDNY on the records as pulling their guys out ofthe buildiomng [sic] because they were afraid it was going collpse. [sic]

I have heard the FDNY state, on video, they heard explosions.
That was ignored by .gov.

There was no reason to make bold claims that a building was going down one hour prior to it occurring, and acting AS IF, it had already happened.
They did not do this with the WTC 1 or 2. But did with WTC 7....a building that was shielded from WTC 1 and 2 by other buildings, which did not collapse on their feet.
Pulling people out of a building, "because they were afraid it was going to collapse", does also not negate .gov's complicity with causing that very building to become structurally unsound to begin with.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 14:09:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1782. To: litus (#1781)
I have heard the FDNY state, on video, they heard explosions.

Thermite doesn't explode, doof.
There was no reason to make bold claims that a building was going down one hour prior to it occurring,
There is NO WAY that you have read through what I have posted regardiong 7 otherwise you would have never psted that.

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:19:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1783. To: litus (#1781)
They did not do this with the WTC 1 or 2.

ACtually after 1 fell, they most certainly belived that 2 was in serious danger of doing so///

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:19:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1784. To: litus (#1781)
does also not negate .gov's complicity with causing that very building to become structurally unsound to begin with.

Way to go Mr. Circle...

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:24:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1785. To: litus (#1781)
I have heard the FDNY state, on video, they heard explosions.

Yea so? Any clue as to what "combustible" means?

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:27:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1786. To: war (#1777)
e designer of WTC was Japanese, moron.

Going by US/ NewYork structural and design standards? Or those from Japan? Really...... your name calling makes you look weak. Or are you saying the Japanese finally got back at us by being able to unload on us this obviously flawed designed? LOLOL

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 14:29:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1787. To: war (#1784)
By your "logic," if bank robbers, who plan their deeds well ahead of time (complete with explosive devices which they have others plant for them), set off the bombs at the appropriate timing, "announce" the building is going to collapse, the fact that they "suspected" the building was going to collapse exonerates them from being suspects themselves with either knowledge about or the planting of explosive devices in a building (which they had intent to rob).

litus posted on 2009-03-30 14:33:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1788. To: war (#1783) (Edited)
they most certainly belived that 2 was in serious danger of doing so///

Really. So that explains why they "called spot on" for a building to fall an hour prior to it falling....while calling for no other buildings to do so that were closer to and/or less-well shielded from WTC 1 and 2, this despite the fact that it was HQ for CIA ops, Guilliani, who had enforced it for his own protection (who, for some "strange" reason, left a few hours prior to the strike)....and no other buildings fell onto their own footprints...oh, except the other WTC 1 and 2.
Amazing!!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 14:35:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1789. To: war (#1786)
Or are you saying the Japanese finally got back at us by being able to unload on us this obviously flawed designed? LOLOL

The Japanese did 911 to us?
You are totally crazy!

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 14:36:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1790. To: litus, war (#1781)
Pulling people out of a building, "because they were afraid it was going to collapse", does also not negate .gov's complicity with causing that very building to become structurally unsound to begin with.

Come on, war personally inspected every structural member of all three of the collapsed and maybe more buildings. Nothing to see here. Who knows... they might have been designed to fall into their own footprint as a cost saving feature. /s

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 14:42:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1791. To: mininggold (#1786)
Going by US/ NewYork structural and design standards?

Wha...huh? The "design" standards of the WTC were new and radical. Or are you ***thinking*** that you are using some sort of "official" terminology here when all you are really doing is futther underscoring your anemic knowledge base.
on us this obviously flawed designed
Where did I claim that the design was "flawed"...

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:43:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1792. To: litus (#1787)
Did I not tell you to stay away from logic or are you claiming that every single one of those quoted FDNY are in on the conspiracy?

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:44:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1793. To: litus (#1788)
So that explains why they "called spot on" for a building to fall an hour prior to it falling....

Why do keep you admitting to me that you have not read what I have posted?

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:45:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1794. To: war (#1791)
Where did I claim that the design was "flawed"...

Oh... Okay.... a design that doesn't perform up to it's architect's claims is not flawed... And new and radical are your words. Evidently New York, the high rise capital of the world, let these slip by. This is not looking good.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 14:47:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1795. To: litus (#1788)
who, for some "strange" reason, left a few hours prior to the strike

Wha...huh? Guiliani was right next door to where I am when the planes hit.
and no other buildings fell onto their own footprints...oh, except the other WTC 1 and 2.
Where did you expect the buildings to fall? In Jersey? This is one of those statEments that you Moonbats make that you ***think*** underscores the nefarious conspiracy, when, in fact, that is how buildings collapse because ***GASP*** that is HOW THEY ARE DESIGNED TO COLLAPSE.

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:48:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1796. To: war (#1792)
By your "logic," if bank robbers, who plan their deeds well ahead of time (complete with explosive devices which they have others plant for them), set off the bombs at the appropriate timing, "announce" the building is going to collapse, the fact that they "suspected" the building was going to collapse exonerates them from being suspects themselves with either prior knowledge of or involved with the planting of explosive devices in a building (which they had intent to rob).

litus posted on 2009-03-30 14:50:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1797. To: mininggold (#1794)
Okay.... a design that doesn't perform up to it's architect's claims is not flawed

It did perform as designed...it took the hit and stood. What it was not designed for was the massive explosion and subsequent fires...they also did not anticipate that the impact of the plane would damage the core...

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:53:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1798. To: mininggold (#1794)
And new and radical are your words.

I am paraphrasing the words of the artchitects.
But feel free to continue to display yoiur Zero KNowledge Base...
A list of the innovations incorporated into the World Trade Center would be very long. In the following pages, I describe just a few of the ideas and innovations conceived and developed by our team. Most, if not all, of this technology is now a part of the standard vocabulary of structural engineers.
The tubular framing system for the perimeter walls resisted all of the lateral forces imposed by wind and earthquake, as well as the impact loads imposed on September 11. Although we had used closely spaced columns in an earlier building, it was Minoru Yamasaki who proposed that we use narrow windows in the WTC towers to give people a sense of security as they looked down from on high. Our contribution was to make the closely spaced columns the fundamental lateral- force-resisting system for the two towers. The tubular framing system also precluded the need for the customary 30-foot column spacing in interior areas, making column-free, rentable space structurally desirable.
In support of Yamasaki’s design, during the construction, before the windows were installed, I noticed that people felt comfortable walking up to the outside wall, placing their hands on the columns to either side, and enjoying the wonderful view. If the wind was blowing toward them, they would walk right up to the outside wall; however, if they felt even a trace of pressure from a breeze from behind, they would at least hesitate before walking to within five feet of the wall . . . and many would not approach the wall at all.
Another structural innovation was the outrigger space frame, which structurally linked the outside wall to the services core. This system performed several functions. First, gravity-induced vertical deformations between the columns of the services core and the columns of the outside wall were made equal at the top of the building; at other levels, the differential deformations were ameliorated. Second, wind-induced overturning moments were resisted in part by the columns of the services core, thus providing additional lateral stiffness. Finally, the weight of, and the wind-induced overturning moment from the rooftop antenna (440 feet tall) was distributed to all columns in the building . . . adding additional redundancy and toughness to the design.
A viscoelastic damping system was invented and patented to ameliorate the wind- induced dynamic component of building motion by dissipating much of the energy of that motion . . . acting more or less like shock absorbers in an automobile. With these dampers, we could control the swaying motion without having to use large quantities of structural steel. This was the first time engineered dampers were used to resist the wind-induced swaying motion of a building.
A theory was developed for integrating the statistical strength of glass with the dynamic forces of the wind to predict the breakage rate of the glass of the exterior wall. Coupled with a testing program of actual glass samples, we were able to determine rationally the necessary thickness and grade of the glass. Another theory was developed to predict stack action and temperature-induced and wind-induced airflow within a high-rise building; an understanding of these airflows is crucial to controlling fire-generated smoke and reducing the energy consumption of the building. A theory to predict appropriate “parking floors” for elevators was developed to minimize the oscillation of elevator cables, which oscillation is stimulated by the wind-induced, swaying motion of a building. Figure 2 is a comparison of the wind-induced dynamic components of the structure response of the two towers and of the Empire State Building.
The two towers were the first structures outside of the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airliner, the Boeing 707. It was assumed that the jetliner would be lost in the fog, seeking to land at JFK or at Newark. To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires.

--Leslie Roberston, structural engineer WTC

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:56:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1799. To: war (#1797)
It did perform as designed...it took the hit and stood. What it was not designed for was the massive explosion and subsequent fires...they also did not anticipate that the impact of the plane would damage the core...

All design flaws. If the pictures of these buildings collapsing were shown to the building commission or whatever you have in NYC, prior to their construction, do you think they would have been still allowed to build them without reengineering? I doubt it.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 14:57:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1800. To: litus (#1796)
Saying it twice only made it twice as stupid.

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:57:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1801. To: war (#1798)
I do not need a degree in structural engineering to see that those buildings did NOT perform up to expectations.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 14:59:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1802. To: mininggold (#1799)
All design flaws.

Your claim is that every building ever built had to pass the 9/11 test even though 9/11 had yet to happen?
You're in over your head...fwiw, that point was reached when you first hit "Reply"...

war posted on 2009-03-30 14:59:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1803. To: mininggold (#1801)
I do not need a degree in structural engineering to see that those buildings did NOT perform up to expectations.

They did not expecty an airliner to impact it with 10000 gallons of fuel @ speeds in excess of 400 and 500 MPH nor did they anticipate that the fires would NOT be contained.

war posted on 2009-03-30 15:01:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1804. To: war (#1802)
Your claim is that every building ever built had to pass the 9/11 test even though 9/11 had yet to happen?

You are saying they weren't engineered to take a direct hit from an airliner in a city crisscrossed by air lanes? Oh my.... the negligence is mounting.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 15:02:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1805. To: war (#1803)
They did not expecty an airliner to impact it with 10000 gallons of fuel @ speeds in excess of 400 and 500 MPH nor did they anticipate that the fires would NOT be contained.

So airplanes don't take off from NYC airports they only land. Oh... Okay....

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 15:04:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1806. To: mininggold (#1805)
So airplanes don't take off from NYC airports they only land.

check! Those "smart engineers" would never have accounted for this!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 15:05:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1807. To: mininggold (#1804)
The two towers were the first structures outside of the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airliner, the Boeing 707. It was assumed that the jetliner would be lost in the fog, seeking to land at JFK or at Newark. To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires.

--Leslie Roberston, structural engineer WTC
The landing speed for a 707 is ~115knots

war posted on 2009-03-30 15:07:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1808. To: mininggold (#1805)
So airplanes don't take off from NYC airports they only land. Oh... Okay....

Wha...huh?
Is it your claim that when planes take off in a heavy fog that they are routinely vectored directly toward a city full of skyscrapers?
That asked, the 707 scenario was based upon the fact of a B-25 crashing into the Empire State Building...

war posted on 2009-03-30 15:10:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1809. To: mininggold (#1804)
You are saying they weren't engineered to take a direct hit from an airliner in a city crisscrossed by air lanes?

What year was the building designed?

war posted on 2009-03-30 15:11:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1810. To: all (#1807)
If you guys want to make your theories believable you got to make them more realistic and less testable.
Instead of saying the US shot a cruise missile at the pentagon, and flew two airplanes into the towers and then used explosive to knock them down, then inexplicably blew up tower 7.
You should say, the Bush admin intentionally stopped the FBI from finding the terrorists, allowed them to take flying lessons, allowed them to pass through security, and purposely messed up the response to the hijackings.
That way you can use the natural incompetence of the government as false evidence of malevolence.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-30 15:11:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1811. To: war (#1807)
The two towers were the first structures outside of the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airliner, the Boeing 707. It was assumed that the jetliner would be lost in the fog, seeking to land at JFK or at Newark. To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires.

--Leslie Roberston, structural engineer WTC

Well assuming sure made an @ss of him. Not very creative that one. Hopefully other structural designers in your areas aren't as dull. Especially since hijacking airlines is not exactly a new sport.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 15:13:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1812. To: mininggold (#1811)
You're applying 21st century standards to a building designed in the early 60's.

war posted on 2009-03-30 15:15:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1813. To: mininggold (#1811)
Well assuming sure made an @ss of him

Being a charter member yourself, I'lltake your word for it...

war posted on 2009-03-30 15:16:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1814. To: mininggold (#1811)

Well assuming sure made an @ss of him. Not very creative that one. Hopefully other structural designers in your areas aren't as dull. Especially since hijacking airlines is not exactly a new sport.

Well there isn't much that can be done except better fire suppression systems, since the fuel burns so hot. The steel becomes tens time as weak. So you'd basically have to build the towers to be able to hold 12 times its minimum weight.

Rhino369 posted on 2009-03-30 15:18:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1815. To: war (#1812)
You're applying 21st century standards to a building designed in the early 60's.

Well like all designs that aren't up to standard it got "pulled" by it's designers own lack of foresight and it's own obsolescence. Too bad the cowardly owners didn't have the moxy to close it and do it right, before lots of people got killed. It's not like it was NOT a previous target.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-30 15:20:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1816. To: mininggold (#1815)
Do me a favor...ping me when you stop grasping for straws that are the length of the pubic hairs of a gant...thanks...

war posted on 2009-03-30 15:38:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1817. To: war (#1800) (Edited)
Saying it twice only made it twice as stupid.

Imagine how you come across, repeating your .gov propaganda multiple times over.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 16:06:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1818. To: Rhino369 (#1814)
Well there isn't much that can be done except better fire suppression systems, since the fuel burns so hot.

Kerosene? BWAHAHAHAHA, who do you think you're kidding? What a load of crap, you've done jumped the shark, boy.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-30 16:08:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1819. To: mininggold (#1805)
So airplanes don't take off from NYC airports they only land. Oh... Okay....

And it's never a clear day there, always foggy and the planes are almost stalling out because they're going so slow. LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-30 16:10:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1820. To: mininggold, war (#1790)
war personally inspected every structural member of all three of the collapsed and maybe more buildings....Who knows... they might have been designed to fall into their own footprint as a cost saving feature. /s

haaaaaaaaaa!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 16:14:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1821. To: mininggold (#1774)
I still will use my common sense and not venture into tall US buildings that appear to be able to collapse in such a total fashion. Especially when, for all the tax money I pay, the gov couldn't even take out planes being piloted by amateurs. Afterall how many others are built similiarly and as a result are ticking time bombs waiting for the right circumstances.
I guess the overseas architects must be better at designing buildings that can withstand some stress, since non appeared to have collapsed in the same manner.

Oh, you should be safe to go in them now. Apparently all the Magickal Jet Fuel™ was used up on 9/11. Several big high rises have caught fire since then and burned much longer but none of them fell. And none before 9/11 either.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-30 16:18:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1822. To: Rhino369 (#1814)
Well there isn't much that can be done except better fire suppression systems, since the fuel burns so hot. The steel becomes tens time as weak.

Are you just making this stuff up as you go? Check the NIST report, it states that the jet fuel burned up in the first few minutes. Kerosene doesn't burn that hot to begin with, and there was NOWHERE near enough of it to even warm the steel, never mind weaken it.
The fires that everyone saw were standard OFFICE fires, whereas the WTC had ALREADY survived one that lasted over three hours and was much more intense than those that occured on 9/11/2001.
The 1975 World Trade Center Fire
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-30 16:33:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1823. To: litus (#1817)
Yep...those firemen shills all...

war posted on 2009-03-30 21:34:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1824. To: litus (#1817)
Yep...that structural engineer...a shill

war posted on 2009-03-30 21:36:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1825. To: litus (#1817)
Yep...all those other engineers...shills...

war posted on 2009-03-30 21:36:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1826. To: litus (#1817)
Yep...all those pics...even though a lot of 'em came from Moonbate sites...FAKED...

war posted on 2009-03-30 21:36:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1827. To: FormerLurker (#1822)
The fires that everyone saw were standard OFFICE fires..,.

Standard office fires are started by a plane impacting and exploding inside of it?
Do you ever stop to ***think*** how stupid you sound when you post such nonsense?

OOoooo....Oooo....I KNOW I KNOW...
Apparently not...

war posted on 2009-03-30 21:39:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1828. To: litus (#1820)
< /em>
Monday, February 12, 2007

Clip from "9/11 Eyewitness"
If anyone has had the misfortune of sitting through NOVA's attempt and validating the official government myth about 9/11, here's a piece that debunks the "pancake theory" computer simulation NOVA's graphic artists came up with to make the Bush administration's 9/11 story seem plausible.
9/11 Truth: NOVA's WTC Pancake Collapse

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 21:49:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1829. To: litus (#1820)
Purdue Simulation Full of Hot Air
George Washington's Blog
Thursday June 21, 2007
The newest volley in the disinformation campaign regarding 9/11 is a simulation of the Twin Towers created by Purdue University. As summarized by Raw Story:
The simulation found jet engine shafts from airlines flown into the World Trade Center "flew through the building like bullets," according to an Associated Press vide report.
Flaming jet fuel cascaded through the tower stripping away fireproofing material and causing the building to collapse, the AP video reports.
"The weight of the aircraft's fuel, when ignited, acted like a flash flood of flaming liquid," according to the video.
However, Kevin Ryan has already demonstrated that there was not enough energy from the airplane impacts to have knocked much of the fireproofing off. See also this article.
And very few of the core columns were severed by the planes' impact. And tests by NIST showed that temperatures in the Twin Towers never got hot enough to significantly weaken the structural steel of the 47-column inner core.
Researchers have stated that the Purdue simulation contradicts the observed facts in other ways, and in the next couple of weeks, they will publish their findings.
Moreover, the Purdue simulation still does not address the flies in the ointment which NIST also ignored:
(1) The simulation either fails to include, or inaccurately represents, the 47 core columns holding up each of the Twin Towers.
(2) Most of the jet fuel burned outside the buildings, especially in the case of the South Tower - which produced a glowing orange fireball as the building was struck at an oblique angle. So the simulation could not hold true for the South Tower.
(3) The people who designed the Twin Towers did not think that an airplane plus fire from the jet fuel could bring the buildings down. Indeed, they assumed that "all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building", and yet assumed "The building structure would still be there." Since most of the fuel (especially with the South Tower) exploded outside of the buildings, shouldn't they "still be there"?
(4) Even if the planes and fire had initiated a collapse sequence, why did the towers totally collapse, when no modern steel-framed building has ever before completely collapsed due to fire?
(5) Why did they collapse at virtually free-fall speed? And why did WTC7 -- which wasn't even hit by a plane -- totally collapse at free-fall speed later that same day?
(6) How could the buildings have fallen at near free-fall speed, indicating very little resistance, and yet produce tremendous pulverization of concrete, which indicates great resistance?
(7) No one can explain why "steel columns in building 7 were "PARTLY EVAPORATED in extraordinarily high temperatures" (pay-per-view). Absent controlled demolition, how could such temperatures have been generated by jet fuel or diesel?
As if that's not enough, Kevin Ryan pointed out to me today by email that the Purdue simulation contradicts many aspects of NIST's findings:
"1. Were columns on the south face of WTC severed by aircraft impact? NIST says maybe one, but Purdue now suggests several. NCSTAR1, p. 22-23.
2. Was there any jet fuel in AA11's center fule tank? NIST says no, but Purdue now says yes, it was completely full. NCTSAR1-5A, p liii, lviii.
3. How did the fieproofing get "widely dislodged"? NIST suggests the aircraft debris turned into shotgun blasts to affect this. Purdue now suggests the jet fuel did it. Thanks to Purdue for invalidating NIST's work. NCSTAR1, p 119."
In other words, not only does the Purdue simulation contain many of the same errors as the NIST reports, but, as if that's not bad enough, it stretches the truth beyond even what NIST itself has done.
Moreover, as pointed out by the blog Truth Or Lies:
"The following statement was used in the Purdue simulation: 'The weight of the aircraft's fuel, when ignited, acted like a flash flood of flaming liquid.' This is a direct contradiction of the FEMA report (which can be viewed HERE) which stated: 'despite the huge fireballs caused by the two planes crashing into the WTC towers each with 10,000 gallons of jet fuel, the fireballs did not explode or create a shock wave that would have resulted in structural damage.'”
As Crockett L. Grabbe, PhD, research scientist and visiting scholar, department of physics and astronomy, university of Iowa 1980, and former researcher at Naval Research Laboratory put it:
“Many may conclude that the building structure of the World Trade Center twin towers was poorly designed with fire retardants that the heat from the airliner explosions within an hour caused catastrophic destruction of the south tower, and in less than 2 hours the north tower. However, the evidence overwhelmingly supports a different conclusion: this collapse was in fact caused by explosive devices planted well in advance."
Indeed, numerous scientists, engineers and demolition experts have said the official version of the destruction of the World Trade Centers is impossible.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 21:51:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1830. To: TwentyTwelve (#1828)
Another Moonbat lie.
NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.

war posted on 2009-03-30 21:51:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1831. To: Rhino369 (#1814)
Well there isn't much that can be done except better fire suppression systems, since the fuel burns so hot. The steel becomes tens time as weak. So you'd basically have to build the towers to be able to hold 12 times its minimum weight.

What kind of drugs are you taking?
You better get off of them quick.
Jet engines burn that fuel in a closed system at much higher temperatures than can be reached in an open air fire. Guess what jet engines are made of. STEEL. Guess what the towers support was made of, STEEL. But not just any steel, it exceeded all requirements of the time and even now concerning strength and melting point for steel in sky scrappers. Your car burns gas, it's engine is made of steel, how many times has your engine fell out because it melted? What about your outdoor grill. How many times has the thing melted before the steaks were done?

Like I said, please stop taking the drugs.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-30 21:52:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1832. To: TwentyTwelve (#1828)
This video has been removed due to terms of use violation (I believe that is what it said when I clicked on it).

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-30 21:52:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1833. To: TwentyTwelve (#1829)
And tests by NIST showed that temperatures in the Twin Towers never got hot enough to significantly weaken the structural steel of the 47-column inner core.

Another Moonbat lie.
Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers. Both photographic and video evidence—as well as accounts from the New York Police Department aviation unit during a half-hour period prior to collapse—support this sequence for each tower.

war posted on 2009-03-30 21:53:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1834. To: TwentyTwelve (#1829)
Why did they collapse at virtually free-fall speed?

Debunked.

war posted on 2009-03-30 21:54:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1835. To: James Deffenbach (#1832)
Try this:
9/11 Truth: NOVA's WTC Pancake Collapse

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 21:54:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1836. To: war (#1830) (Edited)
The sagging floors? It is more like your sagging brain. Do you think the mass of a floor changes even if it did sag? DO YOU? If not then how the HELL could it pull anything inward? No more force on the columns than before you DUMB ASS GOVERNMENT STOOGE!
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-30 21:55:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1837. To: war (#1833)
Indeed, numerous scientists, engineers and demolition experts have said the official version of the destruction of the World Trade Centers is impossible.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 21:55:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1838. To: TwentyTwelve (#1835)
That one worked, thanks.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-30 21:58:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1839. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#1834)
Debunked.

Oh, and how long DID it take each tower to collapse then?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-30 22:01:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1840. To: war (#1830)
NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse,

Right, the evidence indicates controlled demolition.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-30 22:03:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1841. To: war (#1827)
Standard office fires are started by a plane impacting and exploding inside of it?

Desks, paper, carpeting, various office equipment, those are all that could burn, and that is what burned. Are you trying to state that the cement was on fire or something?
BTW, all of the fuel was burnt up in the first few minutes. Most of it burnt outside the buildings in the huge fireballs as seen in live footage of the event. A plane itself can't explode, it's the fuel that catches on fire due to sparks, and it doesn't explode unless that spark occurs in a confined space such as a fuel tank.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-30 22:07:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1842. To: FormerLurker (#1841)
Aren't you getting tired of beating your head over that wall? You would come closer to getting through to a stump or fence post.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-30 22:09:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1843. To: war (#1825)
Yep...all those other engineers...shills.. Yep...that structural engineer...a shill Yep...those firemen shills all...

"Indeed, numerous scientists, engineers and demolition experts have said the official version of the destruction of the World Trade Centers is impossible."
Indeed, I have read that a gag order was imposed on the firemen. I wouldn't doubt, as well, that .GOV has, in whatever way it wished, threatened anyone who was a witness and dare to tell the truth. They would lose their job, or be demoted, or lose their retirement, etc.

I am aware, personally, of particular individuals during my lifetime, some fairly high up in the government (or, when I was younger, their father was), who were under DIRECT ORDERS not to tell what they know or witnessed surrounding particular events. They don't want the public to know things.
Fool!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 22:11:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1844. To: FormerLurker, war (#1841)
A plane itself can't explode, it's the fuel that catches on fire

Pay particular attention here, war, try to wrap your mind around an idea like that.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-30 22:14:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1845. To: litus (#1843)
They don't want the public to know things.

Neither does war, that is why he is here.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-30 22:14:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1846. To: litus, war (#1843)
infowars.net/articles/march2007/280307blueprints.htm
WTC Blueprints Leaked by Whistleblower
Unseen documents show official investigations used flawed construction details
Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Wednesday, March 28, 2007
A whistleblower that was on a team working for Silverstein Group in 2002 has made public an extensive set of detailed architectural drawings of the World Trade Center, that prove beyond any doubt that the official reports into the collapse of the towers misrepresented their construction.
The documents were passed to physics Professor Steven Jones, formerly of Brigham Young University, who has done extensive research into the collapse of the buildings and contends that explosives were used to bring them down.
Little is known about the identity of the whistleblower at this point, however the blueprints provided consist of 261 drawings included detailed plans for the North Tower (WTC 1), the World Trade Center foundation and basement, and the TV mast on top of the North Tower.
Most of the drawings can be viewed here.
The blueprints, unlike those of any other publicly funded building, have been withheld from public view since the 9/11 attacks without explanation and were even unavailable for viewing by the team of engineers from the American Society of Civil Engineers, who were assembled to investigate the collapses by FEMA, until they had signed legal documents which bound them to secrecy and demanded that they never use the information against the buildings' owners as part of a lawsuit.
The website 911research.wtc7.net, one of the sites at the forefront of independent investigation into 9/11 for years now, states:
The detailed architectural drawings make clear what official reports have apparently attempted to hide: that the Twin Towers had massive core columns, and those columns ran most of the height of each Tower before transitioning to columns with smaller cross-sections.
Both of the government-sponsored engineering studies of the Twin Towers' "collapses" -- FEMA's and NIST's -- are highly misleading about the core structures. Neither Report discloses dimensions for core columns -- dimensions that are clearly evident in the architectural drawings. Both Reports use a variety of techniques seemingly designed to minimize the strength of the cores or to conceal their structural role entirely.
FEMA, in its explanation of the collapses, stated:
As the floors collapsed, this left tall freestanding portions of the exterior wall and possibly central core columns. As the unsupported height of these freestanding exterior wall elements increased, they buckled at the bolted column splice connections, and also collapsed.
The blueprints show that FEMA's report was inaccurate in stating that core columns were "freestanding" when in fact large horizontal beams cross-connected the core columns in a three-dimensional matrix of steel.
The NIST report into the collapses has also been proven inaccurate by the blueprints as it has implied that the only the corner columns were "massive" and that the core columns decreased in size in the higher stories when, in fact, the sixteen columns on the long faces of the cores shared the same dimensions for most of each Tower's height.
These omitted and distorted facts serve to render the official reports extremely questionable. It seems that facts were being tweaked in order to get closer to an explanation for the collapses. Even then the reports both failed to provide adequate explanations of why the buildings fell.
The buildings more or less fell into their own footprints, which is something that normally takes weeks of expert planning when a building is intentionally demolished and there are only a few companies on the planet that can do it.
Within each trade tower there were 47 steel columns at the core and 240 perimeter steel beams. 287 steel-columns in total. According to the official story, random spread out fires on different floors caused all these columns to totally collapse at the same time and at a free fall speed, with no resistance from undamaged parts of the structure.
Professor Steven Jones points out that the total annihilation of the building, core columns and all, defies the laws of physics unless it was artificially exploded:
"Where is the delay that must be expected due to conservation of momentum – one of the foundational Laws of Physics? That is, as upper-falling floors strike lower floors – and intact steel support columns – the fall must be significantly impeded by the impacted mass. If the central support columns remained standing, then the effective resistive mass would be less, but this is not the case – somehow the enormous support columns failed/disintegrated along with the falling floor pans."
Below is an examination of the official reports in more detail.
The Official Explanation of the collapses of the Trade Towers and Building 7
The official explanation says that the towers collapsed because of the combined effect of the impact of the airplanes and the resulting fires. The report put out by FEMA said: “The structural damage sustained by each tower from the impact, combined with the ensuing fires, resulted in the total collapse of each building".
And building 7's collapse according to FEMA was also due to fire, however FEMA could not give specific details:
"The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse [“official theory”] remain unknown at this time. Although the total diesel fuel on the premises contained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis [fire/damage-caused collapse] has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue."
FEMA is not an investigative agency, but it was entrusted with the sole responsibility for investigating the collapses. It began to coordinate the destruction of the evidence almost immediately. The structural steel was quickly removed and loaded on ships for transport to blast furnaces in India and China. Meanwhile, FEMA's investigation of the collapses consisted of assembling a group of volunteer investigators from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), dubbed the Building Performance Assessment Team (BPAT). The group was headed by W. Gene Corley, a structural engineer from Chicago who led the investigation of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
FEMA's investigation of one of the worst and most pivotal events in history was farcical:
*No independent investigation was funded: FEMA allocated $600,000 for the BPAT's study, which included the cost of printing their report.
*Except for an early "tourist trip", The BPAT volunteers were barred from Ground Zero.
*They did not see a single piece of steel until almost a month after the disaster.
*They had to guess the original locations of the few pieces of steel they saw.
*They collected 150 pieces of steel for further study (out of millions of pieces).
*Their report, which called for "further investigation and analysis", was published after Ground Zero had been scrubbed.
A key facet of the FEMA report on the towers' collapse was the pancaking floors theory, whereby each floor successively gave way due to buckled columns and the weight from above. This theory has since been roundly dismissed as it totally ignores the fact that the building's central core columns even existed and also ignores the toppling effect witnessed during the collapse of the South Tower and the explosive pulverizing of all materials into fine powder.
NIST's Investigation
It was not until long after the Ground Zero clean-up was completed that an investigation with a multi-million dollar budget began: NIST's 'Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation' was funded with an initial budget of $16 million.
Where as the FEMA investigation in understanding the Collapse of the World Trade Center could be chalked up as a farce, the NIST's investigation cannot. NIST's results strongly indicate a cover-up. NIST's Final Report on the Twin Towers shows that:
*NIST avoids describing, let alone explaining, the "collapse" of each Tower after they were "poised for collapse." Thus, NIST avoids answering the question their investigation was tasked with answering: how did the Towers collapse?
*NIST describes the Twin Towers without reference to the engineering history of steel-framed buildings, and separates its analysis of WTC Building 7 into a separate report. By treating them in isolation, NIST hides just how anomalous the alleged collapses of the buildings are.
*NIST avoids disclosing the evidence sulfidation documented in Appendix C of the FEMA's Building Performance Study.This unexplained phenomenon was described by the New York Times as "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation."
*NIST has refused to publish the computer models that its report imply show how the fires in the Towers led to "collapse initiation".
The report explains the collapse of both towers with the following sentence:
"The change in potential energy due to downward movement of building mass above the buckled columns exceeded the strain energy that could have been absorbed by the structure. Global collapse then ensued."
So NIST promulgates a theory of "progressive collapse" - ie once the top started coming down, the whole lot came down with it, even the undamaged sections of the building.
NIST admits that it didn't even attempt to model the undamaged portions of the building and only modeled a portion of each tower in any detail -- its "global floor model" which consisted of "several stories below the impact area to the top of the structure." Thus the structurally intact floors 1-91 of WTC 1 and floors 1-77 of WTC 2 were excluded from the so called "global" models of the towers. NIST provides no evidence that its model even predicted "collapse initiation".
The excellent research website www.911review.com, which everyone should visit, succinctly sums up the cover up perpetrated by the NIST report:
In summary: The reports by NIST say nothing about how -- and if! -- the collapse was able to progress through dozens and dozens of structurally intact floors without being stopped. If no external energy was available e.g. in the form of explosives, this would have been the opportunity to show that no such energy was needed. On the other hand, if some unaccounted-for energy broke the supporting structures enabling the collapse to progress with the speed it did, there would have been many good reasons not to try to model the impossible, ie. a purely gravitation-driven collapse. Stopping the analysis early enough also saves NIST from trying to explain the symmetrically of the collapses (despite non-symmetrical impact damage and fires), the almost complete pulverization of non-metallic materials as well as the extremely hot spots in the rubble. These remain as inexplicable by the official story as they have ever been.
Despite calls from leading structural and fire engineers, and despite the fact that they published models of the plane impacts, NIST has refused to publish visual simulations from its computer models of the collapses.
In an even more startling admission in its own report, NIST reveals that it "adjusted the input" of variables in tests beyond the visual evidence of what actually happened in order to save its own hypothesis:
"The more severe case (which became Case B for WTC 1 and Case D for WTC 2) was used for the global analysis of each tower. Complete sets of simulations were then performed for Cases B and D. To the extent that the simulations deviated from the photographic evidence or eyewitness reports [e.g., complete collapse occurred], the investigators adjusted the input, but only within the range of physical reality. Thus, for instance,…the pulling forces on the perimeter columns by the sagging floors were adjusted..." (NIST, 2005, p. 142)
NIST simply "discarded" realistic tests based on the empirical data because they did not cause the buildings to collapse.
If this is not indicative of a cover up then what is? The investigation is the wrong way round, NIST has already decided what happened and is manufacturing data to prove it!
INFOWARS.net
Copyright © 2001-2007 Alex Jones
All rights reserved.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 22:16:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1847. To: RickyJ (#1845)
Neither does war, that is why he is here.

We know that, and he knows that we know that, yet his handlers continue to pay him to post his propaganda.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 22:20:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1848. To: TwentyTwelve (#1846)
Wednesday, March 28, 2007
A whistleblower that was on a team working for Silverstein Group in 2002 has made public an extensive set of detailed architectural drawings of the World Trade Center, that prove beyond any doubt that the official reports into the collapse of the towers misrepresented their construction. . . .

bttt!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 22:21:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1849. To: litus (#1848)
infowars.net/articles/march2007/200307building7.htm
Huge Amounts Of Smoke Came From WTC 5 & 6 NOT WTC 7
Photos aid debunking of WTC 7 "raging fires" claims
Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
Photographs taken on the afternoon of 9/11 have recently emerged on the web showing that huge amounts of smoke poured forth primarily from the buildings closest to the collapsed towers, not from the further away building 7 which mysteriously collapsed later the same afternoon.
Despite the fact that the official NIST report cannot officially explain how fire damage caused the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, debunkers of the controlled demolition theory continue to cite "raging infernos" inside the building.
The following set of images highlights the fact that the majority of smoke emanating from the complex was coming from the smaller buildings 5 and 6, which WERE engulfed by fire after suffering major structural damage from falling debris.
We can clearly see the fire crews dousing building 5 and putting out the fires, thus causing a great deal of smoke to be emitted as the flames are deprived of oxygen.
We have previously shown photos of WTC Building 7, provided to us by an anonymous rescue worker who was at ground zero on 9/11, in comparison with buildings closer to the towers that sustained significantly more fire and debris damage yet did not collapse. Here are those photos once more.
CLICK ANY OF THE FOLLOWING IMAGES FOR HIGH DEFINITION ENLARGEMENTS.
Building 7 to the right of the picture as Building 5 burns in the left background. From this image, which building seems the more likely to collapse? The 47 story behemoth with limited fire in a few floors - or a nine story shell completely engulfed by fire and flames from top to bottom? Yet it was Building 7 and not 5 that collapsed on the afternoon of September 11.
The burned out husk of Building 5 two days after 9/11. Building 5 sustained massive damage from flaming aircraft parts which ignited fires that burned for hours. In addition, the collapse of the north tower scraped down the side of 5 but its modest nine floors did not structurally collapse.
Here is a separate image revealing the extent of the fires in WTC 5. Despite raging infernos and debris gouging huge holes in the building, and in comparative size significantly more severe fires than the twin towers or Building 7 - the building stood while the other three all collapsed.
In addition, Building 6, which was even closer to the north tower (seen here moments before its subsequent planned demolition months later), suffered even more extreme fire and debris damage, but the building did not fall down implosion style like the towers and Building 7.
A wider perspective shot of the rubble of Building 7. The Fiterman Hall building and the U.S. Post Office building across the street show little damage. Building 5 in the background is completely charred but still stands.
The rubble of WTC Building 7 lies in front of the Fiterman Hall building. The building has fallen in its own footprint - another sign of controlled demolition.
As can be seen in the photo below (from Knoxville News Sentinel Sept. 11 photo gallery, this particular photo reportedly from the New York City Office of Emergency Management), WTC 6, which was immediately adjacent to WTC 1, has a large hole in the middle from falling debris, yet did not collapse.
Above is a map showing the relative position of the buildings in the WTC complex. Though Building 7 was hit by flying aircraft parts, it was not significantly effected by the collapse of the towers due to it being shielded by buildings 5 and 6 - which despite being closer to the towers and suffering far more extreme fires - did not collapse.
Remember that firefighters were at no point engaged in tackling the fires inside building 7. The official FEMA report stresses this in chapter five, stating "...the firefighters made the decision fairly early on not to attempt to fight the fires, due in part to the damage to WTC 7 from the collapsing towers. Hence, the fire progressed throughout the day fairly unimpeded by automatic or manual suppression activities."
Incidentally this is exactly the reason why Silverstein's explanation of his "pull it" remark doesn't hold water. He said late in the afternoon that the decision was made to "pull it", by which he then later explained that he meant evacuate the firefighting operation. The problem is, according to FEMA, there was no building 7 firefighting operation.
The photograph below (click for slightly bigger enlargement) was taken at around 3PM on 9/11, approximately 2 hours 20 minutes before the collapse of WTC 7 (or around 1 hour 54 minutes if you're the BBC). It shows small fires confined to just two floors of the building. Later images from news reports (such as the afore mentioned BBC one) show no signs that the fires had worsened significantly enough to collapse such a huge building.
Officially eight floors of the building were subject to sporadic fires before its collapse. The official NIST report concluded that it could not therefore comprehensively identify how the building could have collapsed symmetrically into its own footprint given the damage that it had sustained.
Remember also that experts stated about building 7:
"A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been PARTLY EVAPORATED in extraordinarily high temperatures" .
Note that evaporation means conversion from a liquid to a gas; so the steel beams in building 7 were subjected to temperatures high enough to melt and evaporate them. Do these fires look like they could do that?
In the most infamous debunking piece to date, Popular mechanics relied on a combination of all kinds of theories to explain away the collapse of building 7, realizing themselves that neither the fires nor the falling debris could explain the collapse of 7:
According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down.
However as we have previously reported, building 7 was specifically designed to have floors removed without collapsing. It was essentially a 'building within a building', as the New York Times put it. To suggest building 7 would have been weakened as an overall structure by damage to limited portions of it is TOTALLY untrue. Besides, who in their right mind would design a building with 47 columns, knowing that removing one column would cause the entire thing to collapse? This is total harebrain logic.
Building 7 has become the key to unlocking the fraud that is the official story behind 9/11.
INFOWARS.net
Copyright © 2001-2007 Alex Jones
All rights reserved.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 22:34:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1850. To: TwentyTwelve (#1846)
The detailed architectural drawings make clear what official reports have apparently attempted to hide: that the Twin Towers had massive core columns, and those columns ran most of the height of each Tower before transitioning to columns with smaller cross-sections.
Both of the government-sponsored engineering studies of the Twin Towers' "collapses" -- FEMA's and NIST's -- are highly misleading about the core structures. Neither Report discloses dimensions for core columns -- dimensions that are clearly evident in the architectural drawings. Both Reports use a variety of techniques seemingly designed to minimize the strength of the cores or to conceal their structural role entirely.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 22:35:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1851. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1846)
FEMA, in its explanation of the collapses, stated:
As the floors collapsed, this left tall freestanding portions of the exterior wall and possibly central core columns. As the unsupported height of these freestanding exterior wall elements increased, they buckled at the bolted column splice connections, and also collapsed.
The blueprints show that FEMA's report was inaccurate in stating that core columns were "freestanding" when in fact large horizontal beams cross-connected the core columns in a three-dimensional matrix of steel.
The NIST report into the collapses has also been proven inaccurate by the blueprints as it has implied that the only the corner columns were "massive" and that the core columns decreased in size in the higher stories when, in fact, the sixteen columns on the long faces of the cores shared the same dimensions for most of each Tower's height.
These omitted and distorted facts serve to render the official reports extremely questionable.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 22:36:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1852. To: litus (#1850)
"Besides, who in their right mind would design a building with 47 columns, knowing that removing one column would cause the entire thing to collapse? This is total harebrain logic."

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 22:37:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1853. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1846)
Even then the reports both failed to provide adequate explanations of why the buildings fell.
The buildings more or less fell into their own footprints, which is something that normally takes weeks of expert planning when a building is intentionally demolished and there are only a few companies on the planet that can do it.
Within each trade tower there were 47 steel columns at the core and 240 perimeter steel beams. 287 steel-columns in total. According to the official story, random spread out fires on different floors caused all these columns to totally collapse at the same time and at a free fall speed, with no resistance from undamaged parts of the structure.
Professor Steven Jones points out that the total annihilation of the building, core columns and all, defies the laws of physics unless it was artificially exploded:

litus posted on 2009-03-30 22:38:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1854. To: TwentyTwelve (#1852)
who in their right mind would design a building with 47 columns, knowing that removing one column would cause the entire thing to collapse? This is total harebrain logic."

One would think!!!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 22:39:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1855. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#1825)
Yep...all those other engineers...shills... Yep...that structural engineer...a shill

Maybe just shills who went along to go along?
Maybe just the type to sign their name to a document they knew was nothing but partial truth, partial fraud.
Maybe paid just enough to say anything .gov wanted about what .gov let them see.
Maybe just a quid pro quo

And building 7's collapse according to FEMA was also due to fire, however FEMA could not give specific details:
"The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse [“official theory”] remain unknown at this time. Although the total diesel fuel on the premises contained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis [fire/damage-caused collapse] has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue."
FEMA is not an investigative agency, but it was entrusted with the sole responsibility for investigating the collapses. It began to coordinate the destruction of the evidence almost immediately. The structural steel was quickly removed and loaded on ships for transport to blast furnaces in India and China. Meanwhile, FEMA's investigation of the collapses consisted of assembling a group of volunteer investigators from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), dubbed the Building Performance Assessment Team (BPAT). The group was headed by W. Gene Corley, a structural engineer from Chicago who led the investigation of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
FEMA's investigation of one of the worst and most pivotal events in history was farcical:
*No independent investigation was funded: FEMA allocated $600,000 for the BPAT's study, which included the cost of printing their report.
*Except for an early "tourist trip", The BPAT volunteers were barred from Ground Zero.
*They did not see a single piece of steel until almost a month after the disaster.
*They had to guess the original locations of the few pieces of steel they saw.
*They collected 150 pieces of steel for further study (out of millions of pieces).
*Their report, which called for "further investigation and analysis", was published after Ground Zero had been scrubbed.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 22:47:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1856. To: litus (#1855)
www.septembereleventh.org...e/2004-11-25-disgrace.php
A National Disgrace: A Review of the 9/11 Commission Report
by David Ray Griffin
Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 Link to Original
Many people have said that this Report "reads like a novel." It is indeed surprisingly good when judged in terms of criteria appropriate to works of fiction. But the 9/11 Commission was supposed to conduct a serious investigation into the question of who was responsible for the attacks of 9/11. Instead, it simply presupposed the official conspiracy theory, according to which the attacks were planned and carried out solely by al-Qaeda. The Commission entirely ignored all evidence for the alternative conspiracy theory, according to which the attacks succeeded only because of complicity by members of the US government.
Having written a book that summarizes much of the evidence supportive of this alternative theory ("The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9/11"), I read "The 9/11 Commission Report" to see how it handled this evidence. I found that it simply omitted most of it and distorted the rest.
For example, the Report simply repeats the official story about the 19 Arab hijackers, failing to mention that at least six of the named men have shown up alive. It even suggests that Waleed al-Shehri, who visited the US embassy in Morocco after 9/11, stabbed a flight attendant on AA 11 before it hit the North Tower (page 5). This sloppy scholarship proves to be no aberration.
With regard to why jet fighters failed to intercept any of the flights, the Report provides a radically revisionist account of 9/11. Claiming--in contradiction to the timeline provided by NORAD on September 18, 2001--that the FAA never notified the military about Flights 175, 77, and 93 until after they crashed, the Report fails to explain why NORAD had earlier said otherwise. This new timeline also changes the starting times of all the teleconferences, in order to claim that they could not have been the means for the military to have learned about the hijackings from the FAA. Also, to bolster the claim that the shootdown order was not given until after Flight 93 had crashed, the Report also contradicts by 45 minutes all prior testimony--including Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta's eyewitness testimony to the Commission itself--as to when Vice President Cheney descended to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center.
With regard to the World Trade Center, the Report fails to mention that fire had never caused steel-frame high-rise buildings to collapse. It also, by way of suggesting why the Twin Towers could have collapsed so easily, says that the core of each building consisted of "a hollow steel shaft" (541n1), whereas in reality the core of each consisted of 47 massive steel columns. While mentioning that the South Tower collapsed in 10 seconds (305), the Report otherwise fails to mention the fact that the collapses manifested 10 standard features of controlled demolitions. The Report handles the collapse of Building 7, which even FEMA admitted it could not explain, by simply failing to mention it.
With regard to the Pentagon, the Report fails to mention that the West Wing would have been the least likely target for terrorists, that its facade did not collapse until 30 minutes after the strike, and other facts in tension with the idea that the Pentagon was struck by Flight 77. And while claiming that al-Qaeda operatives did not strike a nuclear plant for fear that their plane would be shot down (245), the Report fails to point out that the Pentagon is even better protected, so that any aircraft without a military transponder would have been automatically shot down.
With regard to the FBI, the Report fails to mention many stories that are damaging to the official account of 9/11. These omitted stories include attorney David Schippers' report that several FBI agents told him of their advance knowledge of the New York attacks, the complaint by Coleen Rowley (Time magazine person of the year) that FBI headquarters sabotaged the Moussaoui investigation, and the damning allegations made by FBI translator Sibel Edmonds in her 3.5-hour testimony to the Commission.
What about the allegation by Craig Unger (popularized in Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11") that the White House authorized a private flight carrying Saudis on September 13, before private flights were otherwise allowed? The Report "refutes" this allegation by simply saying that US airspace had been reopened at 11 AM that day (329, 556n25), thereby ignoring the crucial distinction between commercial flights, which were then allowed, and private flights, which were not.
The Report also provides radically ahistorical accounts of the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq, ignoring all the evidence that these attacks were motivated by desires to establish military bases and to take over the oil (rather than by desires to protect human rights and promote democracy). In this and other ways, the Report omits all evidence that the Bush administration had plans of the sort that could have provided motives for allowing or even engineering the attacks of 9/11.
I have documented these and dozens of other problems in my book, The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions. These problems are so great that the Report, instead of being nominated for a National Book Award, should be designated a National Disgrace.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 22:52:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1857. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1846)
Where as the FEMA investigation in understanding the Collapse of the World Trade Center could be chalked up as a farce, the NIST's investigation cannot. NIST's results strongly indicate a cover-up. NIST's Final Report on the Twin Towers shows that:
*NIST avoids describing, let alone explaining, the "collapse" of each Tower after they were "poised for collapse." Thus, NIST avoids answering the question their investigation was tasked with answering: how did the Towers collapse?
*NIST describes the Twin Towers without reference to the engineering history of steel-framed buildings, and separates its analysis of WTC Building 7 into a separate report. By treating them in isolation, NIST hides just how anomalous the alleged collapses of the buildings are.
*NIST avoids disclosing the evidence sulfidation documented in Appendix C of the FEMA's Building Performance Study.This unexplained phenomenon was described by the New York Times as "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation."
*NIST has refused to publish the computer models that its report imply show how the fires in the Towers led to "collapse initiation".

litus posted on 2009-03-30 22:53:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1858. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1846)
succinctly sums up the cover up perpetrated by the NIST report:
In summary: The reports by NIST say nothing about how -- and if! -- the collapse was able to progress through dozens and dozens of structurally intact floors without being stopped. If no external energy was available e.g. in the form of explosives, this would have been the opportunity to show that no such energy was needed. On the other hand, if some unaccounted-for energy broke the supporting structures enabling the collapse to progress with the speed it did, there would have been many good reasons not to try to model the impossible, ie. a purely gravitation-driven collapse. Stopping the analysis early enough also saves NIST from trying to explain the symmetrically of the collapses (despite non-symmetrical impact damage and fires), the almost complete pulverization of non-metallic materials as well as the extremely hot spots in the rubble. These remain as inexplicable by the official story as they have ever been.
Despite calls from leading structural and fire engineers, and despite the fact that they published models of the plane impacts, NIST has refused to publish visual simulations from its computer models of the collapses.
In an even more startling admission in its own report, NIST reveals that it "adjusted the input" of variables in tests beyond the visual evidence of what actually happened in order to save its own hypothesis:
"The more severe case (which became Case B for WTC 1 and Case D for WTC 2) was used for the global analysis of each tower. Complete sets of simulations were then performed for Cases B and D. To the extent that the simulations deviated from the photographic evidence or eyewitness reports [e.g., complete collapse occurred], the investigators adjusted the input, but only within the range of physical reality. Thus, for instance,…the pulling forces on the perimeter columns by the sagging floors were adjusted..." (NIST, 2005, p. 142)
NIST simply "discarded" realistic tests based on the empirical data because they did not cause the buildings to collapse.

war, you call the above a "scientific" study based upon the scientific method? You think such kinds of "scientific" findings are credible?
It's just the opposite of the scientific method and completely incredible!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 23:02:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1859. To: TwentyTwelve (#1849)
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
Photographs taken on the afternoon of 9/11 have recently emerged on the web showing that huge amounts of smoke poured forth primarily from the buildings closest to the collapsed towers, not from the further away building 7 which mysteriously collapsed later the same afternoon.
Despite the fact that the official NIST report cannot officially explain how fire damage caused the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, debunkers of the controlled demolition theory continue to cite "raging infernos" inside the building.
The following set of images highlights the fact that the majority of smoke emanating from the complex was coming from the smaller buildings 5 and 6, which WERE engulfed by fire after suffering major structural damage from falling debris.

TT....everybody "knows" the pictures are FAKE!! /s endsarcasm!!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 23:11:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1860. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1849)
Building 7 to the right of the picture as Building 5 burns in the left background. From this image, which building seems the more likely to collapse? The 47 story behemoth with limited fire in a few floors - or a nine story shell completely engulfed by fire and flames from top to bottom? Yet it was Building 7 and not 5 that collapsed on the afternoon of September 11.
The burned out husk of Building 5 two days after 9/11. Building 5 sustained massive damage from flaming aircraft parts which ignited fires that burned for hours. In addition, the collapse of the north tower scraped down the side of 5 but its modest nine floors did not structurally collapse.

Images follow (not from above article)....these photos, separately described below....are all FAKE war?:

Building 7 to the right of the picture as Building 5 burns in the left background. From this image, which building seems the more likely to collapse? The 47 story behemoth with limited fire in a few floors - or a nine story shell completely engulfed by fire and flames from top to bottom? Yet it was Building 7 and not 5 that collapsed on the afternoon of September 11.

Here is a separate image revealing the extent of the fires in WTC 5. Despite raging infernos and debris gouging huge holes in the building, and in comparative size significantly more severe fires than the twin towers or Building 7 - the building stood while the other three all collapsed.

The burned out husk of Building 5 two days after 9/11. Building 5 sustained massive damage from flaming aircraft parts which ignited fires that burned for hours. In addition, the collapse of the north tower scraped down the side of 5 but its modest nine floors did not structurally collapse.

litus posted on 2009-03-30 23:33:35 ET (4 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1861. To: James Deffenbach (#1842)
Aren't you getting tired of beating your head over that wall? You would come closer to getting through to a stump or fence post.

Yes, that's why I stepped away from the "discussion" last week, I just got fed up trying to get through to someone who has no intention of trying to use their brain or allowing any bit of what they hold dear to be proven wrong.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-30 23:39:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1862. To: FormerLurker, litus, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve, James Deffenbach, all (#1861)

"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-30 23:44:38 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1863. To: litus, war (#1860)

Building 7 to the right of the picture as Building 5 burns in the left background. From this image, which building seems the more likely to collapse? The 47 story behemoth with limited fire in a few floors - or a nine story shell completely engulfed by fire and flames from top to bottom? Yet it was Building 7 and not 5 that collapsed on the afternoon of September 11.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-30 23:49:05 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1864. To: wudidiz (#1862)
My, what a big eye you have, lol!!

litus posted on 2009-03-30 23:50:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1865. To: wudidiz (#1862)
Keeping an eye on us wud? LOL...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-30 23:50:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1866. To: wudidiz (#1862)
Thanks for the warning.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 0:03:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1867. To: war, Litus (#1404)
I suppose the US government wants us to believe that 300,000 pounds of aircraft parts collided with over 13 million tons of steel (a weight estimate of 7 world trade center floors) and 14,000 cubic feet of concrete (estimate) and that a paper passport navigated it's way through all of that including an explosion that was at least 100 yards in diameter (estimate) to land safely on top of the rubble below?
Get real.
And if that were even possible, you would think the chances of it happening were once in a lifetime, right? Well how about twice?
You may remember that after the planes hit the World Trade Center towers--an epic disaster that melted structural steel designed to withstand a Hellish temperature of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, incinerated both planes? cockpit recorders and black-box recorders, and vaporized the flesh and bones of nearly 3,000 human beings--the passport of suspected hijacker Mohammed Atta was found intact, in pristine condition, lying on the sidewalk below.
Well, guess what. It happened again. I am not kidding. Both CBS News and the Associated Press are reporting that the passport of another hijacker, one Satam al-Sugami, floated down to Earth along with Mohammed Atta's passport. And not just a charred piece of a passport but , like the other passort, it was IN PRISTINE CONDITION.
Here's the original link (before it was removed:
www.11alive.com/news/usnews_article.aspx?storyid=42069
Taken from: www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=43653

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 0:07:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1868. To: war, Litus (#1404)
Amazing stuff! This is yet another "magic passport" found in the rubble in addition to "mastermind" Mohamed Atta's discovered passport at the WTC site.
Let's see if I can get this straight:
1. The fireballs of the WTC attacks melted structural steel that was designed to withstand heat of 2000 degrees F.
2. The fireballs of the WTC attacks completely destroyed both airplanes cockpit voice-recorders (situated at front)*and* the black-box data recorders (located in the rear of the aircraft). 3. The fireballs of the WTC attacks vaporized human bone and flesh.
4. And yet those same fireballs somehow weren't strong enough to do anything to a pair of surviving passportsfound in pristine condition. No surface scratches, scuffs, abrasions or burns. Perfect. My Question: Why doesn't Boeing design a new black-box data recorder manufactured from the same indestructible material used to produce magical Saudi passports?

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 0:09:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1869. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1867)
the passport of another hijacker, one Satam al-Sugami, floated down to Earth along with Mohammed Atta's passport. And not just a charred piece of a passport but , like the other passort, it was IN PRISTINE CONDITION.

Aw...just chock that up to "another 9/11 coincidence!"

litus posted on 2009-03-31 0:10:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1870. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#1868)
Why doesn't Boeing design a new black-box data recorder manufactured from the same indestructible material used to produce magical Saudi passports?

haaaaaaaaaa! They could make a mint on it!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 0:11:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1871. To: litus (#1869)
Aw...just chock that up to "another 9/11 coincidence!"

Make that coincidence #575.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 0:12:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1872. To: TwentyTwelve (#1867)
Well, guess what. It happened again. I am not kidding. Both CBS News and the Associated Press are reporting that the passport of another hijacker, one Satam al-Sugami, floated down to Earth along with Mohammed Atta's passport. And not just a charred piece of a passport but , like the other passort, it was IN PRISTINE CONDITION.

That's phenomenal. I really would like to know what kind of fireproof paper those passports are made of.
Gosh ....the anomalies just keep piling up. Maybe there was some kind of space warp on that date where materials interchanged their structural qualities for a few hours. Yes.... that must be it!!!!!!!!!

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 0:15:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1873. To: mininggold (#1872)
Gosh ....the anomalies just keep piling up. Maybe there was some kind of space warp on that date where materials interchanged their structural qualities for a few hours. Yes.... that must be it!!!!!!!!!

"Why doesn't Boeing design a new black-box data recorder manufactured from the same indestructible material used to produce magical Saudi passports?"

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 0:18:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1874. To: TwentyTwelve, mininggold (#1871)
Make that coincidence #575.

I would love it if someone would actually compile such a list of all the "coincidences" from that day.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 0:20:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1875. To: TwentyTwelve, mininggold, James Deffenbach (#1873)
magical Saudi passports?"

there's also that magical jet fuel.
Anything else magical that day?

litus posted on 2009-03-31 0:21:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1876. To: TwentyTwelve (#1873)
Why doesn't Boeing design a new black-box data recorder manufactured from the same indestructible material used to produce magical Saudi passports?"

Sounds good to me. Boeing should be jumping all over that, with the discovery of how well that passport material survived the conflagration. I'm sure some of the other passengers were carrying passports too, evidently made of the regular old fashioned easily burnable material.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 0:25:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1877. To: litus, TwentyTwelve, mininggold, FormerLurker, all (#1874)
...a list of all the "coincidences" from that day...

911 Top 500 Questions
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-03-31 0:25:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1878. To: litus (#1875)
Anything else magical that day?

The whole thing was only plausible to generations raised on TV.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 0:26:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1879. To: wudidiz (#1877)
tnx; bookmarked.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 0:28:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1880. To: mininggold (#1878)
Not so! There's so many more people older than that who believe everything, as least in my anecdotal experiences.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 0:29:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1881. To: mininggold (#1878) (Edited)
The whole thing was only plausible to generations raised on TV.

TV wasn't required to get people to believe aliens had invaded from Mars. A radio show worked quite well. Conning people use to be done face to face, now with broadcasting through electro-magnetic radio waves, cable and DSL phone lines it is done to the masses wherever they happen to be.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-31 0:36:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1882. To: litus (#1880)
I agree, I should have rephrased it to read differently.
I've always thought that the elderly were even more susceptible to TV's influences. My Grandmother swore that soap operas were truly real life. I would laugh when she said that and tell her. "Grandma... not one living person can have all those problems in their daily life".

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 0:43:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1883. To: RickyJ (#1881)
TV wasn't required to get people to believe aliens had invaded from Mars. A radio show worked quite well. Conning people use to be done face to face, now with broadcasting through elctro-magnetic radio waves, cable and DSL phone lines it is done to the masses wherever they happen to be.

Yeah.. radio could be even more dramatic, and some believed everything put in print too.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 0:46:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1884. To: mininggold (#1882)
hahaha!
That's right, and it's those older folks who fall for the scams, too...from Kumbayah town.
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-31 0:48:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1885. To: RickyJ, litus (#1881)
I think I will demand reams and reams of data and sources from both of you to back up your assertions. LOLOL

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 0:50:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1886. To: mininggold (#1885)
lol!!
Uh, sorry...I've got that data locked up in my lock box!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 0:51:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1887. To: litus (#1875)
there's also that magical jet fuel.
Anything else magical that day?

you bettcha the magical way the initial report of the pentagon "attack" being a truck bomb disappeared in a flash.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 0:53:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1888. To: IRTorqued (#1887)
you bettcha the magical way the initial report of the pentagon "attack" being a truck bomb disappeared in a flash.

Intensive structural remodeling was also being done in that area with a new electrical conduit system and water mains.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 0:59:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1889. To: IRTorqued (#1887)
the magical way the initial report of the pentagon "attack" being a truck bomb disappeared in a flash.

That's news to me!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 0:59:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1890. To: litus (#1889)
"As everyone knows, on 11 September, less than an hour after the attack on the World Trade Center, an airplane collided with the Pentagon. The Associated Press first reported that a booby-trapped truck had caused the explosion. The Pentagon quickly denied this. The official US government version of events still holds. Here's a little game for you: Take a look at these photographs and try to find evidence to corroborate the official version. It's up to you to Hunt the Boeing!"

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 1:13:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1891. To: IRTorqued (#1890)
Thanks for posting that. I remembered seeing those particular pictures some time ago, but I don't remember anything about any "truck" stories.
I'll have to re-read what you posted; bookmarked.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 1:17:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1892. To: mininggold (#1888)
my big boss had his office one ring in from the damage, on occasion while going through the course of my day I would connect into the pentagon live cam site on the secure terminal I worked at, funny thing for around three days prior all the cams were down and stayed down for about a week after.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 1:19:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1893. To: IRTorqued, mininggold (#1892)
funny thing for around three days prior all the cams were down and stayed down for about a week after.

what another coincidence!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 1:23:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1894. To: litus (#1891)
neither here or there but I was up for sailor of the quarter a bit after 9/11; during the oral board I was asked what I thought about baalzabush's talk about a war on terrorism, I said it's just like the war on drugs; all a bunch of bulldung. the guy who aked me the question already knew what I thought of it prior to asking as we'd talk about related issues daily. I was a white male up against a black male and two gals of mexican descent so I knew no matter how I answered it wasn't my quarter for a grab and grin.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 1:29:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1895. To: IRTorqued (#1894)
I knew no matter how I answered it wasn't my quarter for a grab and grin

That's pc BS.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 1:35:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1896. To: litus (#1893)
kinda like the floors of wtc one and two beneath those struck closed off for "renovation" with access limited to a very few select group of "workers" a few weeks prior to 9/11.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 1:37:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1897. To: IRTorqued (#1896)
the floors of wtc one and two beneath those struck closed off for "renovation" with access limited to a very few select group of "workers" a few weeks prior to 9/11.

Yeah, kinda like that, and that never gets "talked about" either.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 1:39:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1898. To: litus (#1895)
that's today's navy. well six years ago anyway, I retired in 2003, march 2003.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 1:40:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1899. To: IRTorqued (#1898)
sad how things have become.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 1:48:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1900. To: litus (#1899)
what's really sad is the number of third worlders the navy, heck the military et al enlisted.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 1:58:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1901. To: IRTorqued (#1900)
I've noticed that.
I wonder if it's because that way they have just that many more "expendables"?
I don't think that the powers that be care about our service men and women like they used to....

litus posted on 2009-03-31 2:06:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1902. To: litus (#1901)
I don't think that the powers that be care about our service men and women like they used to....

When did they use to care about them? 1776?
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-31 2:24:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1903. To: RickyJ (#1831)
Guess what jet engines are made of. STEEL.

Uh...no...
And besides which...putting aside the fact of controlled conbustion, both turbo fan jet engines and autos have a cooling system...

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:21:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1904. To: RickyJ (#1836)
Do you think the mass of a floor changes even if it did sag?

Uh no...but the load bearing capabilities of the structure holding up that mass certainly changed...the floor was ssuspended between two support structures...

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:23:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1905. To: TwentyTwelve (#1837)
Indeed, numerous scientists, engineers and demolition experts have said the official version of the destruction of the World Trade Centers is impossible.

Yea so...numerous scientists will tell you that a Sky Ghost waved his hand and we all appeared. BFD.
There are numerous scientists who believe that man has 0 affect on our environment.
That was a very unimprsive statement.

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:26:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1906. To: FormerLurker (#1839)
Oh, and how long DID it take each tower to collapse then?

Asked and answered many times. The last time you didn't even bother to read what I posted but you decided to argue against it any way...

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:27:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1907. To: FormerLurker (#1840)
Right, the evidence indicates controlled demolition.

Nope. Thee is 0 evidence of a controlled demolition.
NONE.

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:28:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1908. To: FormerLurker (#1841)
Desks, paper, carpeting, various office equipment, those are all that could burn, and that is what burned.

And it was contained mostly to one section of one floor...the 11th...and it did not burn out of control for very long if at all...
Hell it was onlyu 2 alarms and FDNY said that the fire wouldn't have even gotten that bad had their been a sprinler system.
There is 0 comparison between the two events...one was a fire...the other a catastrophy...

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:30:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1909. To: litus (#1843)
Indeed, I have read that a gag order was imposed on the firemen.

No such order exists.

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:32:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1910. To: Dakmar, FormerLurker (#1844)
Pay particular attention here, war, try to wrap your mind around an idea like that.

It's a moronic parsing...the tanks are part of the plane...it's like saying a car doesn't crash but its front end does.

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:33:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1911. To: war (#1909)
Indeed, I have read that a gag order was imposed on the firemen.
No such order exists.

Prove that the fireman were not threatened and did not receive calls at home to shut up.
How do you live with yourself?

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 10:34:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1912. To: RickyJ (#1845)
Neither does war, that is why he is here.

You're pretty fucking stupid aren't you?

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:34:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1913. To: war (#1907)
Nope. Thee is 0 evidence of a controlled demolition.
NONE.

OMG you are stupid.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 10:35:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1914. To: TwentyTwelve (#1846)
Professor Steven Jones

How many times does this guy have to be discredited before you get it that he's discredited?
Both of the government-sponsored engineering studies of the Twin Towers' "collapses" -- FEMA's and NIST's -- are highly misleading about the core structures.
Gee...here's a paper that debumks that very notion:
Excerpt:
NIST: “As stated above, the core columns were designed to support approximately 50% of the gravity loads” [4]. “The hat-truss tied the core to the perimeter walls of the towers, and thus allowed the building to withstand the effects of the aircraft impact and subsequent fires for a much longer time—enabling large numbers of building occupants to evacuate safely” [10]...
The fact is the Towers were constructed with a substantial load-supporting core structure as well as perimeter columns – and on this point we agree with NIST in dispelling false popular notions.
was co-authored by...wait for it...Professor Steven Jones
[snicker]

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:49:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1915. To: TwentyTwelve (#1846)
Working link

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:50:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1916. To: TwentyTwelve (#1913)
OMG you are stupid.

Given the fact that you've yet to answer the most basic questions that's a stupid statement in and of itself.
What are yo afraid of? REAL answers?

war posted on 2009-03-31 10:51:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1917. To: TwentyTwelve (#1849)
Debinked on this very thread Moonie...see post #1780

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:00:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1918. To: litus (#1851)
FEMA's report is not the official report.

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:00:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1919. To: TwentyTwelve (#1852)
a building with 47 columns

24

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:07:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1920. To: litus (#1855)
Maybe just shills who went along to go along?

OF COURSE!!!
That's it!!!
The Bilderberg's AND the Illumnati BOTH got to 'em.
BASTARDS!!!!

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:08:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1921. To: litus (#1855)
FEMA...was entrusted with the sole responsibility for investigating the collapses.

Bzzzzt...outright lie...

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:09:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1922. To: TwentyTwelve (#1856)
David Ray Griffin

Is a fucking PASTOR, dope.

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:11:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1923. To: litus (#1858)
war, you call the above a "scientific" study based upon the scientific method? You think such kinds of "scientific" findings are credible?

ROFLMAO..
No I call it you being so fucking stupid that it's amazing that you breathe unassisted. OF COURSE, "variables" were adjusted.
Maybe you, yourself, could use a primer in scientific method before you attack a group for using...wait for it...SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:14:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1924. To: war (#1922)
David Ray Griffin
Is a fucking PASTOR, dope.

Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
Rule Number Five
Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists", "religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 11:17:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1925. To: TwentyTwelve (#1863)
? The 47 story behemoth with limited fire in a few floors

Sucks for you that the fire in 7 was not limited to a few floors.

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:20:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1926. To: TwentyTwelve (#1924)
Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule

Something you Troofers haven't done.
/sarcasm

This is also known as the primary attack the messenger
Anotehr ploy eschewed by you Troofers...
/sarcasm
That said, the guy IS a fucking pastor.

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:22:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1927. To: TwentyTwelve (#1867)
I suppose the US government wants us to believe that 300,000 pounds of aircraft parts collided with over 13 million tons of steel

Nope. It collided with a part of that 300K LBS...

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:23:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1928. To: TwentyTwelve (#1867)
Oops...13MM tons...sorry...

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:24:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1929. To: TwentyTwelve (#1868)
The fireballs of the WTC attacks melted structural steel that was designed to withstand heat of 2000 degrees F.

The steel in the WTC could only withstand 600 degree F before starting to become compromised and no-one has claimed that the steel melted except you Moonbats.
We've been throught his before...and you have been corrected on this before.
And yet those same fireballs somehow weren't strong enough to do anything to a pair of surviving passportsfound in pristine condition.
Given the inaccuracies of your descriptions to date...I highly doubt that they were so found...

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:31:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1930. To: IRTorqued (#1896)
kinda like the floors of wtc one and two beneath those struck closed off for "renovation" with access limited to a very few select group of "workers" a few weeks prior to 9/11.

Absolutely false...

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:34:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1931. To: TwentyTwelve (#1911)
Prove that the fireman were not threatened and did not receive calls at home to shut up.

Wha...chuckle...huh?
Prove that something did NOT happen?
You folks just relish living in the realm of the mind numbing stupid.

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:36:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1932. To: war (#1931)
Prove that the fireman were not threatened and did not receive calls at home to shut up.
Wha...chuckle...huh?
Prove that something did NOT happen?

It DID happen.
And YOU know it.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 11:47:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1933. To: TwentyTwelve (#1932)
It DID happen.

Actually, I just called a good buddy of mine who happens to be my wife's cousin and who is a decorated FDNY LT who was on site 9/11 and he says unequivocally that you are...
FULL OF SHIT....

war posted on 2009-03-31 11:57:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1934. To: war (#1933)
It DID happen.
Actually, I just called a good buddy of mine who happens to be my wife's cousin and who is a decorated FDNY LT who was on site 9/11 and he says unequivocally that you are...
FULL OF SHIT....

And just how does your good buddy know that there were no threatening phone calls from the NWO to “shut up or else”?
Your good buddy might have been the one making the phone calls.
hmmmmmm.....

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 12:05:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1935. To: TwentyTwelve (#1934)
And just how does your good buddy know that there were no threatening phone calls from the NWO to “shut up or else”?

FDNY is a very close knit almost closed fraternity. Had anyone of them been intimidated over 9/11, it would be a) well known who was and b) why. Besides which...I am not the one who is making the claim.
FWIW, I lost several dozen friends and acquiantances that day. A good portion of my friends were FDNY. I went to more funerals over those two months than mostg wil in a lifetime.

war posted on 2009-03-31 12:08:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1936. To: TwentyTwelve (#1934)
Your good buddy might have been the one making the phone calls.

ROFLMAO...you really are a tool.

war posted on 2009-03-31 12:08:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1937. To: war (#1931)
You folks just relish living in the realm of the mind numbing stupid.

And yet here you are plodding through this like none of it reflects on you. And so far you haven't been able to specify just what qualifications makes you such an expert BUT you seem to hold that on a pedestal as a must have qualification for others.
You are taking published "data", filtering it and forming your own opinion from it just like everyone else here.
Too many qualified and respected in the industry disagree with you so are you emailing them with your infantile name calling too. I used to have some respect for your opinions even when I disagreed but egads you are sounding more and more like Yukon here.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 12:09:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1938. To: war (#1935)
FWIW, I lost several dozen friends and acquiantances that day. A good portion of my friends were FDNY. I went to more funerals over those two months than mostg wil in a lifetime.

You should be very upset that you were lied to by your own Government!
You should want to seek out the truth.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 12:12:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1939. To: mininggold (#1937)
You are taking published "data", filtering it and forming your own opinion from it just like everyone else here.

Nope. What I am taking is VERIFIABLE data and then processing it.
Most of what you Moonbats have been forthing on about is wholly UNverfiable and in some case are just outright lies...e.g. the final report blames jet fuel for melting steel and that the buildings pancaked.
If you read some of my responses today you will see that I responded to a post by 2012 containing an article by Steven Jones in which he accuses NIST of ignoring the vital role played by the core support in WTC.
My rebuttal was an article co-authored by that same Steven Jones [he got top billing, btw] in which he SPECIFICALLY LAUDED the NIST for identifying the vital role that the core played in WTC's support.

war posted on 2009-03-31 12:15:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1940. To: mininggold (#1937)
Too many qualified and respected in the industry

Like whom?

war posted on 2009-03-31 12:15:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1941. To: mininggold (#1937)
Too many qualified and respected in the industry

Like whom? My take on most of the Troofers is that they are in fact, NOT experts in what they are claining to be experts in. For the most part, if you aren;t a structural engineer, your opinion about the strcutural engineering is going to be fairly useless.

war posted on 2009-03-31 12:17:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1942. To: war, mininggold, Litus (#1940)
Too many qualified and respected in the industry
Like whom?

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 12:23:51 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1943. To: TwentyTwelve (#1942)
LOLOL at the doggy.
I still believe it's the government's job to make sense of their investigations and logically present them to the hard working tax paying citizens. If they don't know the answers then they should just say so and quite making up scenarios that often contradict each other.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 12:45:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1944. To: war (#1941)
Like whom? My take on most of the Troofers is that they are in fact, NOT experts in what they are claining to be experts in. For the most part, if you aren;t a structural engineer, your opinion about the strcutural engineering is going to be fairly useless.

So you are a structural engineer?

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 13:15:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1945. To: mininggold (#1944)
So you are a structural engineer?

Nope. I never claimed that I was but I do have a background in basic physics.
But, in re WTC, when I weigh engineering factors and I am given the opinion of some structural engineer and some by a pastor or a radio talk show host whom do you believe I am going to give more weight to? When I read the opinion of an engineer regarding what happened versus some Moonbat on the internet whose only retort is that I am a government shill, whom do you believe I will give more weight to?

war posted on 2009-03-31 13:29:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1946. To: TwentyTwelve (#1942)
Thinking of having polo's made?

war posted on 2009-03-31 13:30:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1947. To: mininggold, TwentyTwelve (#1943)
LOLOL at the doggy.

Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
Rule Number Five
Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists", "religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

war posted on 2009-03-31 13:32:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1948. To: war (#1933)
Actually, I just called a good buddy of mine who happens to be my wife's cousin and who is a decorated FDNY LT who was on site 9/11 and he says unequivocally that you are...
FULL OF SHIT....

Rule Number One
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 13:37:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1949. To: war (#1709)
That guy is a moron...the left side of that building had CLEARLY begun to sag on the top left side in frame 30.

and that's relevant how in regard to wtc7 collapsing at free fall speed?
who's the moron now, mooooarooon?

Also. in the NIST guy in Part II states that it was the time that 7 disappeared behind the two buildings...that is NOT when it was done falling.

see reply above

More smoke and mirrors...

as you wish, mr. 95%er...

Forensic Metallurgy Metallurgical Examination of WTC Steel Suggests Explosives
Although virtually all of the structural steel from the Twin Towers and Building 7 was removed and destroyed, preventing forensic analysis, FEMA's volunteer investigators did manage to perform "limited metallurgical examination" of some of the steel before it was recycled. Their observations, including numerous micrographs, are recorded in Appendix C of the WTC Building Performance Study. Prior to the release of FEMA's report, a fire protection engineer and two science professors published a brief report in JOM disclosing some of this evidence.
---------
The "Deep Mystery" of Melted Steel
Materials science professors Ronald R. Biederman and Richard D. Sisson Jr. confirmed the presence of eutectic formations by examining steel samples under optical and scanning electron microscopes. A preliminary report was published in JOM, the journal of the Minerals, Metals & Materials Society. A more detailed analysis comprises Appendix C of the FEMA report. The New York Times called these findings "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation." The significance of the work on a sample from Building 7 and a structural column from one of the twin towers becomes apparent only when one sees these heavy chunks of damaged metal.
...
"The important questions," says Biederman, "are how much sulfur do you need, and where did it come from? The answer could be as simple--and this is scary- as acid rain."

do you agree with hopeful-of NIST-funding-biederman that the presence of sulphur in that steel from wtc7 which FEMA volunteer investigators could have inferred that a "liquid eutectic mixture" formed during a "hot corrosion attack on the steel" resulting in "intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese" may have been introduced by exposure to scary, scary acid rain (hahaha)????
(around here, when it rains, water comes right through the roof and runs right down the walls, but i figured nycitiers were more sophisticated and had overcome the raining-inside-a-building problem with ingenious engineering)

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 13:42:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1950. To: TwentyTwelve (#1948)
Oddly missing is you supporting any of your Monnbat statements and theories when directly questioned.
Why is that?

war posted on 2009-03-31 13:42:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1951. To: war (#1950)
Oddly missing is you supporting any of your Monnbat statements and theories when directly questioned.
Why is that?

Don't blame me that you cannot comprehend what I have posted.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 13:44:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1952. To: war (#1950)
www.sportsnetwork.com/me rge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=horse/news/news.aspx?id=4223350
I'm not sure if you can bet the Derby Future Wager where you live; you might be able to do it online at TVG or somewhere. The morning line on Win Willy is 20- 1. The betting windows open at noon on Thursday through Sunday.

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-03-31 13:50:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1953. To: postpunk (#1949)
and that's relevant how in regard to wtc7 collapsing at free fall speed?

13odd seconds is not freefall speed. So, that's a non starter right there.

war posted on 2009-03-31 13:54:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1954. To: TwentyTwelve (#1951)
Don't blame me that you cannot comprehend what I have posted.

ROFLMAO...did...what you post, in the face of the overwhelming opinion of non- pastros and fat shortwave radio darlings, is INCOMPREHENSIBLE... But stil feel free to answer any of my questions. Start with why did STeven JOnes say that NIST got it right regarding core support and then turn around and accuse them of getting it wrong...

war posted on 2009-03-31 13:57:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1955. To: postpunk (#1949)
FEMA's report was a) interim and b) not official.

war posted on 2009-03-31 13:58:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1956. To: Fred Mertz (#1952)
Thanks...
WIN WILLY!!!!

war posted on 2009-03-31 14:00:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1957. To: war (#1956)
For the first time this year one can bet exactas in the Derby Future Wager. A friend of mine boxed two of his favorites in last month's Future Wager. I looked up the payout if he wins and it was $118 one way and $120 the other way; not bad on a $2 bet. Something to think about.

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-03-31 14:17:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1958. To: war, postpunk (#1953)
13odd seconds is not freefall speed.

It fell at 6.8 seconds, not 13....

litus posted on 2009-03-31 14:31:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1959. To: TwentyTwelve, mininggold (#1942)
Too many qualified and respected in the industry
Like whom?

The foxes are guarding the other foxes.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 14:33:00 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#1960. To: war (#1958)
It fell at 6.8 seconds, not 13....

Take note.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 14:34:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1961. To: christine (#1959)
The thread that's changed its focus from the original title. Carry on ;)

lol!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 14:36:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1962. To: litus (#1961)
;P

christine posted on 2009-03-31 14:38:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1963. To: christine (#1962)
This day in 1962

I'm not here if anyone asks. ;-)

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-03-31 14:41:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1964. To: litus (#1958)
It fell at 6.8 seconds, not 13....

Saturday, May 19, 2007
Steven Jones on WTC 7 Collapse: "We Really Screwed Up"
Admits WTC 7 collapse time was at least twice as long.
(BNN - May 19, 2007 - New York, NY) - In the first candid admission on record by a 9/11 Truth Movement leader of being wrong, Steven Jones (above, left) admitted today that he and other 9/11 researchers "screwed up on the collapse time of WTC 7. We blew it."
For years, Jones and others have claimed that WTC 7 collapsed in 6.5 seconds, nearly free fall speed.
Jones's admission comes on the heels of a debate on the Rob Bishop show last night when Jason Bermas (above, right), one of the amateur filmmakers responsible for the film, "Loose Change", became flustered when the question of the WTC 7 collapse time came up. Bermas was confronted with the CBS video of the collapse of WTC 7 clearly showing it took over 13 seconds to collapse from beginning to end.
"That is a fantasy! I've looked at all the videos. WTC 7 collpased in 6.5 seconds, period!", Jason declared in a nervous voice.
Pat Curley, who participated in the debate last night and co-wrote with James Bennett the debunking of the film, "Loose Change", demonstrated conclusively that WTC 7 collapsed in over 13 seconds.
"The CBS video clearly shows that the East Penthouse collapsed first, followed by the West Penthouse and the rest of the structure. Between the beginning of the East Penthouse collapse and the beginning of the structure collapse, 7 seconds went by. The structure collapse then took an additional 6 - 7 seconds," Pat explained.
Bermas, visibly shaken, responded by completely dismissing the video evidence.
Pat pointed out that the 9/11 Truth Movement has inexplicably argued against its own controlled demolition theory for years.
"The CBS video demonstrates that internal collapses were taking place in WTC 7 before the entire structure fell. The 9/11 Truth Movement could have argued that bombs were going off inside of WTC 7 to weaken the structure so structure collapse could take place, just like internal explosives are set off to cause a structure collapse in real controlled demolitions. Instead, they adamantly argue that no internal collapse took place before the building collapsed. Isn't that strange?"
Responding to the overnight controversy, Steven Jones announced this morning that WTC 7 did indeed take over 13 seconds to collapse.
"We screwed up. We had never seen the CBS video when we claimed that it took WTC 7 6.5 seconds to collapse. We only relied on the street video that does not show the Penthouses. By the time we saw the CBS video, we had so much invested in the 6.5-second collapse time, we could not disappoint our supporters who were successfully using the 6.5 free fall time to push 9/11 Truth. We just ignored the evidence.
Asked how his revelation would affect 9/11 Truth, Jones said it would enhance and strengthen it.
Jones said, "There is no question that bombs went off in WTC 7 to weaken the internal structure before the building came down. That is obvious from the video and why it took over 13 seconds for WTC 7 to collapse."

war posted on 2009-03-31 14:47:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1965. To: litus (#1958)
Architects and Engnieers for 9/11 Truth

I guess a lot of you have heard about the website ae911truth where a group of individuals claim that what happened to WTC 1, 2 and 7 could not have happened. This is just a claim, because they have nothing to show for their allegation that it could not have happened the way it did. You won't find any calculations that show how the NIST Report is wrong. On this site, you will find many structural engineers - those who actually know what they are talking about - explaining why the towers collapsed the way they did. So feel free to look at all the information I have gathered about the research done on the collapse on the towers. The research has been published in numerous engineering magazines and all over the internet on engineering sites (See the links on the right side of this site).
Only a handful of architects and engineers question the NIST Report, but they have never come up with an alternative. Although at first blush it may seem impressive that these people don't believe the NIST Report, remember that there are 123,000 members of ASCE(American Society of Civil Engineers) who do not question the NIST Report. There are also 80,000 members of AIA(American Institute of Architects) who do not question the NIST Report.
Although their field of expertise is not related to the construction of buildings - they don't seem to have a problem with that over at AE911truth - there are also 120,000 members of ASME(American Society of Mechanical Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 370,000 members of IEEE(Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 40,000 members of AIChE(American Institute of Chemical Engineers) who do not question the NIST Report. There are also 35,000 members of AIAA (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics) who do not question the NIST report. So who would you rather believe?

war posted on 2009-03-31 14:53:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1966. To: war (#1953)
13odd seconds is not freefall speed. So, that's a non starter right there.

true, "13odd seconds" is a duration, not a "freefall speed" which makes no sense because any instantaneous earth-bound velocity could be on some differential curve for free fall; more accurately free fall is an acceleration which the high school math teacher's presentation of wtc7's collapse made abundantly clear was achieved.
did it fly over your head like the glorious albatross taking flight, freeing you of your crushing ignorance?
how's that for a starter? if only in aid to relieve you of a feigned or real condition...

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 14:54:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1967. To: war (#1955)
FEMA's report was a) interim and b) not official.

thanks,
that doesn't answer the question

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 14:57:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1968. To: postpunk (#1966)
which makes no sense because any instantaneous earth-bound velocity could be on some differential curve for free fall

WHA...CHUCKLE....HUH?
"Free fall speed" is 32 feet per second per second or 10 meters per second squared FOR ANY OBJECT. There is no "differential curve" for free fall...

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:05:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1969. To: postpunk (#1967)
that doesn't answer the question

The question was why FEMA concluded something. They didn't conclude anything.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:06:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1970. To: war (#1968)
jokes are fun!
32 feet per second per second is acceleration due to gravity, i.e. speed increases (not fixed in respect to barreling toward mama earth)

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 15:11:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1971. To: postpunk (#1970)
32 feet per second per second is acceleration due to gravity, i.e. speed increases (not fixed in respect to barreling toward mama earth)

I just typed that.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:16:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1972. To: war (#1969)
the question concerned provenance of the sulfur that contributed to the eutectic reaction in steel retrieved from wtc7.
are you claiming none was found?

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 15:16:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1973. To: war (#1945)
Nope. I never claimed that I was but I do have a background in basic physics.
But, in re WTC, when I weigh engineering factors and I am given the opinion of some structural engineer and some by a pastor or a radio talk show host whom do you believe I am going to give more weight to? When I read the opinion of an engineer regarding what happened versus some Moonbat on the internet whose only retort is that I am a government shill, whom do you believe I will give more weight to?

A simple yes or no would have been sufficient. LOLOL

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 15:16:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1974. To: war (#1971)
speed is distance per second; acceleration is distance per second per second and is the second derivative of a motion curve, remaining constant when an object is subject to gravity only (no additional forces)

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 15:19:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1975. To: war (#1964)
Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction
Steven E. Jones, Frank M. Legge, Kevin R. Ryan, Anthony F. Szamboti, and James R. Gourley
The Open Civil Engineering Journal, 2008, 2, 35-40
Received: March 17, 2008 | Revised: April 02, 2008

5. Essentially in Free Fall NIST: [Question:] “How could the WTC towers collapse in only 11 seconds (WTC 1) and 9 seconds (WTC 2)— speeds that approximate that of a ball dropped from similar height in a vacuum (with no air resistance)?” [Answer:] …As documented in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, these collapse times show that: “… the structure below the level of collapse initiation offered minimal resistance to the falling building mass at and above the impact zone. The potential energy released by the downward movement of the large building mass far exceeded the capacity of the intact structure below to absorb that energy through energy of deformation. Since the stories below the level of collapse initiation provided little resistance to the tremendous energy released by the falling building mass, the building section above came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos” [3].

We agree with some of this, that the building “came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos.” This is an important starting point. (Because of obscuring dust clouds, it is difficult to determine the exact fall times, but the statement that the buildings “came down essentially in free fall” seems correct when accelerations are viewed, for the WTC Towers and also for WTC 7.) [13, 14] Further, we agree with NIST that “the stories below the level of collapse initiation provided little resistance” to the fall – but we ask – how could that be? NIST mentions “energy of deformation” which for the huge core columns in the Towers would be considerable, and they need to be quantitative about it (which they were not) in order to claim that the “intact structure” below would not significantly slow the motion. Beyond that, NIST evidently neglects a fundamental law of physics in glibly treating the remarkable “free fall” collapse of each Tower, namely, the Law of Conservation of Momentum. This law of physics means that the hundreds of thousands of tons of material in the way must slow the upper part of the building because of its mass, independent of deformation which can only slow the fall even more. (Energy and Momentum must both be conserved.)

Published papers have argued that this negligence by NIST (leaving the near-free-fall speeds unexplained) is a major flaw in their analysis [13, 14]. NIST ignores the possibility of controlled demolitions, which achieve complete building collapses in near free-fall times by moving the material out of the way using explosives. So, there is an alternative explanation that fits the data without violating basic laws of physics. We should be able to agree from observing the near-free-fall destruction that this is characteristic of controlled demolitions and, therefore, that controlled demolition is one way to achieve complete collapse at near free-fall speed. Then we are keen to look at NIST’s calculations of how they explain near-free-fall collapse rates without explosives. We await an explanation from NIST which satisfies Conservation of Momentum and Energy for the rapid and complete destruction of all three WTC skyscrapers on 9/11, or a discussion of alternative hypotheses that are consistent with momentum and energy conservation in these near-free-fall events.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 15:21:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1976. To: war (#1969)
not conclusions, son, evidence

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 15:21:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1977. To: war (#1971)
3. Pancake Theory Not Supported
NIST: “NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers… Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon” [3].
Agreed: the “pancake theory of collapse” is incorrect and should be rejected. This theory of collapse was proposed by the earlier FEMA report and promoted in the documentary “Why the Towers Fell” produced by NOVA [7]. The “pancake theory of collapse” is strongly promoted in a Popular Mechanics article along with a number of other discredited ideas [8, 9]. We, on the other hand, agree with NIST that the “pancake theory” is not scientifically tenable and ought to be set aside in serious discussions regarding the destruction of the WTC Towers and WTC 7.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 15:23:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1978. To: war (#1971)
only a tiny fraction of steel was analyzed from the WTC Towers, and none of the WTC 7 steel was analyzed by NIST. What happened to the rest of the steel from the crime scene?

litus posted on 2009-03-31 15:24:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1979. To: postpunk (#1974)
speed is distance per second; acceleration is distance per second per second and is the second derivative of a motion curve, remaining constant when an object is subject to gravity only (no additional forces)

Free fall speed has a direct correlation to the accelerative force of gravity...
You cannot claim that an object fell at free fall speed while also claiming that it did not accelerate as such.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:24:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1980. To: war (#1965)
The indisputable facts are that all three towers collapsed into their own footprints on that day, that no plane hit WTC 7 that day, that the fires burning inside WTC 7 were hardly overwhelming, and no steel- framed skyscraper had ever collapsed due to fire before or after 9/11 all lead me to the conclusion that WTC 7 was brought down by controlled demolition.
If it flies like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, dabbles like a duck, has feathers like a duck, and leaves little duckie droppings behind it as it walks around the pond in the middle of the local park, I'm going to call it a duck. The collapse of WTC7 shares all of the qualities of a controlled demolition, and I'm going to call it a controlled demolition.
By the way, who started the whole "honey pot" regarding the speed of the fall of the building? That doesn't strike me as terribly relevant, being as the speed of the implosion can be controlled by the timing of the charges. There's been a TON of "honey pots" spread all around 9/11, all carefully placed by those who wait for people to mention one of them, so that the disinformationistas can then jump up and exclaim "No! That ONE ITEM is NOT TRUE! Therefore EVERYTHING they say is WRONG WRONG WRONG". Well, sorry Charlie, I'm not going to play that game. You know and I know that WTC 7 is the weakest link in the official story and the "smoking gun" that points out what really happened that day, and more and more people are wising up to that fact. Bummer for you.
Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope posted on 2009-03-31 15:24:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1981. To: war (#1971)
CONCLUSIONS

We have enumerated fourteen areas where we are in agreement with FEMA and NIST in their investigations of the tragic and shocking destruction of the World Trade Center. We agree that the Towers fell at near free-fall speed and that is an important starting point. We agree that several popular myths have been shown to be wrong, such as the idea that steel in the buildings melted due to the fires, or that the Towers were hollow tubes, or that floors “pancaked” to account for total Tower collapses. We agree that the collapse of the 47-story WTC 7 (which was not hit by a jet) is hard to explain from the point of view of a fire-induced mechanism and that NIST has refused (so far) to look for residues of explosives [3, 22, 27]. Our investigative team would like to build from this foundation and correspond with the NIST investigation team, especially since they have candidly conceded (in a reply to some of us in September 2007): “…we are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse” [25].

litus posted on 2009-03-31 15:25:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1982. To: Elliott Jackalope, war (#1980)
If it flies like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, dabbles like a duck, has feathers like a duck, and leaves little duckie droppings behind it as it walks around the pond in the middle of the local park, I'm going to call it a duck. The collapse of WTC7 shares all of the qualities of a controlled demolition, and I'm going to call it a controlled demolition.

bttt!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 15:27:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1983. To: litus (#1978)
only a tiny fraction of steel was analyzed from the WTC Towers, and none of the WTC 7 steel was analyzed by NIST. What happened to the rest of the steel from the crime scene?

It's in those Chinese made toaster ovens at Walmart. They can really stand up to the heat. LOL

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 15:28:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1984. To: mininggold (#1983)
FOFL!!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 15:28:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1985. To: litus (#1978)
only a tiny fraction of steel was analyzed from the WTC Towers, and none of the WTC 7 steel was analyzed by NIST. What happened to the rest of the steel from the crime scene?

That's a decptinve statment...not all the steel was supporting...

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:30:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1986. To: war (#1953)
13odd seconds is not freefall speed. So, that's a non starter right there.

AH! Finally you commit to a specific collapse time, after several weeks of posturing on your part, that's amazing.
Anyways, since the free fall speed from the top of the towers would be 9.2 seconds, how do you account for the destruction of 100 floors of undamaged steel and cement in 3.8 seconds?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 15:30:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1987. To: litus (#1975)
The Open Civil Engineering Journal, 2008, 2, 35-40

Youn do realize that I already posted this?

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:31:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1988. To: war (#1904)
Uh no...but the load bearing capabilities of the structure holding up that mass certainly changed...the floor was ssuspended between two support structures...

Oh, so you think the columns became wet noodles too? Probably becasue of that fire, huh? The same fire that won't melt your steel grill but will cause sky scrapper strength quality steel to turn into wet noddles? You better find another excuse, that one won't work.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-31 15:31:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1989. To: war (#1985)
Doesn't look at all deceptive to me.
Nothing in that statement states anything with regard to all the steel...supporting."

litus posted on 2009-03-31 15:33:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1990. To: FormerLurker (#1986)
AH! Finally you commit to a specific collapse time, after several weeks of posturing on your part, that's amazing.

WTF are you babbling about, Moonie. Not only have I stated that on here several times...I've stated it for YEARS.
Dude...it's obvious that through our exchanges, you either don't read what I post or you are of such obvious derangement that you don't comprehend what you read.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:34:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1991. To: litus (#1989)
Nothing in that statement states anything with regard to all the steel...supporting."

WQhy would any other steel need to be analyzed?
BTW, if you want to bicth and moan about the clean up speed then I would be in agreement. I beleive ti's criminal that the greedheads were talking about rebuilding the site within a day of the attack and that they tried to thwart the recovery so that they could start construction.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:36:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1992. To: RickyJ (#1988)
Oh, so you think the columns became wet noodles too?

Huh?
You need to start subtitling your responses. I can't read Moronese.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:37:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1993. To: FormerLurker (#1986)
Anyways, since the free fall speed from the top of the towers would be 9.2 seconds, how do you account for the destruction of 100 floors of undamaged steel and cement in 3.8 seconds?

Huh?
The 13 seconds, dickweed, was for WTC 7... More proof that you're functionally stupid.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:39:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1994. To: Elliott Jackalope (#1980)
that the fires burning inside WTC 7 were hardly overwhelming

Lie.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:39:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1995. To: war (#1979)
speed has a direct correlation to the accelerative force of gravity

way past correlation, we're talking cause and flipping effect, pal!

You cannot claim that an object fell at free fall speed while also claiming that it did not accelerate as such.

yes, i erred, hopefully not a capital offense.
whatsoever i cannot claim, that sentence above does not help to disconfuse matters.
acceleration = faster (increasing speed)

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 15:40:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1996. To: war (#1991) (Edited)
none of the WTC 7 steel was analyzed by NIST. What happened to the rest of the steel from the crime scene?

That's a decptinve [sic] statment [sic] ...
WQhy [sic] would any other steel need to be analyzed?

You're joking, right? You didn't just ask "why should a criminal investigation investigate the location and debris within and surrounding the area of a crime scene?"

litus posted on 2009-03-31 15:41:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1997. To: postpunk (#1995)
we're talking cause and flipping effect

Neither your cause nor your effect are steeped in anything remotelyuresembling reality.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:44:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1998. To: litus (#1996)
You're joking, right?

Nope.
You are claiming that a controlled demo;lition occurred. To use one of your fellow Moonbat's phraseology...you can't even support he "effect" of a CD which makes your argument of "cause" moot.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:46:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#1999. To: war (#1994)
Here's some pictures of the WTC 7 fires.

Here's some pictures from an overwhelming tower fire, in China this last February.

One collapsed, the other didn't. Compare, contrast, discuss.
Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope posted on 2009-03-31 15:47:48 ET (6 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2000. To: Elliott Jackalope (#1999)
I postred a video on here that shows WTC 7 burning out of control. I also posted a photo showing smoke pouring from the entirity of the South face if WTC7...

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:50:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2001. To: war (#1998) (Edited)
War: WQhy [sic] would any other steel need to be analyzed?
[NOTE to War: No steel, whatsoever, from the WTC7 was analyzed]
You're joking, right? You didn't just ask "why should a criminal investigation investigate the location and debris within and surrounding the area of a crime scene?"
War: Nope. You are claiming that a controlled demo;lition occurred. To use one of your fellow Moonbat's phraseology...you can't even support he "effect" of a CD which makes your argument of "cause" moot.

So, you are admitting that the investigation into the fire and collapse of a skyscraper, which could have led to the deaths of hundreds of people, began, at the outset, with the presumption that the CRIME SCENE was not, in fact, a crime scene. The authorities (police, FBI, CIA, etc.) ruled out a crime had occurred from the outset, prior to conducting any investigations, gathering evidence, and speaking to witnesses could have occurred. From the moment of the CRIME...it was deemed "accidental" in nature, and the authorities subsequently only followed policy and procedures for accidents!
Yet this was a crime of infamous proportions!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 15:50:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2002. To: war, Elliott Jackalope (#2000)
I postred a video on here that shows WTC 7 burning out of control.

You're a liar. You posted a picture of Building 5 and called it Building 7. Building 5 was engulfed in flames, yet didn't collapse.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 15:54:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2003. To: war (#1993)
The 13 seconds, dickweed, was for WTC 7... More proof that you're functionally stupid.

How long did it take for WTC 1 and WTC 2 to collapse then? BTW, do you have a source for your claim that it took WTC7 13 seconds to collapse? From what I've seen, it takes less than half that time for it to collapse in slow motion.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 15:56:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2004. To: FormerLurker, litusm Elliott Jackalope, Litus, wudidiz (#2002)
War is either senile or he needs a new pair of eye glasses.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 15:56:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2005. To: Elliott Jackalope (#1999)

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:57:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2006. To: FormerLurker (#2003)
How long did it take for WTC 1 and WTC 2 to collapse then

Asked and answered.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:58:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2007. To: FormerLurker (#2003)
BTW, do you have a source for your claim that it took WTC7 13 seconds to collapse? From what I've seen, it takes less than half that time for it to collapse in slow motion.

read the thread. I'm done repeating myself.

war posted on 2009-03-31 15:59:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2008. To: FormerLurker (#2002)
You're a liar. You posted a picture of Building 5 and called it Building 7. Building 5 was engulfed in flames, yet didn't collapse.

Dickhead...that was posted when you said that none of the WTC buildings were engulfed in flames...

war posted on 2009-03-31 16:00:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2009. To: war, FormerLurker, Elliott Jackalope, Litus, wudidiz (#2004)
Analysis of WTC's north tower collapse indicative of controlled demolition.
Analysis Of WTC Collapse -

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 16:07:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2010. To: war (#2005)
I just watched that video from beginning to end. I do not see anything in that video to change my mind. Once again, while that was a good-sized fire, and it made a lot of smoke, that doesn't change the fact that the fire was hardly overwhelming, and I am simply unable to accept the idea that a fire of that size and nature was able to result in the total structural failure of a steel-framed skyscraper. Especially when there have been huge skyscraper fires before and since, and none of them have ever resulted in the total structural failure and collapse of a building.
Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope posted on 2009-03-31 16:08:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2011. To: war (#1997)
Neither your cause nor your effect are steeped in anything remotelyuresembling reality.

what?
cause-->gravity
effect-->unsupported objects gather velocity in a calculable manner due to said gravity
your reality differs?

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 16:10:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2012. To: Elliott Jackalope (#2010)
I just watched that video from beginning to end. I do not see anything in that video to change my mind. Once again, while that was a good-sized fire, and it made a lot of smoke, that doesn't change the fact that the fire was hardly overwhelming

FDNY disagrees with your assessment thus obviating your "fact" to bullshit.

war posted on 2009-03-31 16:12:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2013. To: Elliott Jackalope, war (#2010)
I am simply unable to accept the idea that a fire of that size and nature was able to result in the total structural failure of a steel-framed skyscraper.

The gumbint, the media and war all say it happened that way. Anyone that disagrees shall be called names and have fecal matter thrown at them.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-31 16:13:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2014. To: postpunk (#2011)
what?

Did I stutter?
cause-->gravity blah blah blah
You don;t tap dance very well. You claimed thatg something "caused" those buildings to effectively collapse at free fall speed.
They did not collapse at free fall speed.

war posted on 2009-03-31 16:15:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2015. To: bluegrass (#2013)
The gumbint, the media and war all say it happened that way. Anyone that disagrees shall be called names and have fecal matter thrown at them.

Oh please...you Moonies can;t even agree on what "the government" says.

war posted on 2009-03-31 16:16:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2016. To: war (#2015)
Oh please

Excellent, grasshopper. You're learning some manners. I'm a good influence.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-03-31 16:19:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2017. To: war (#2015)
Oh please...you Moonies can;t even agree on what "the government" says.

War: WQhy [sic] would any other steel need to be analyzed?
[NOTE to War: No steel, whatsoever, from the WTC7 was analyzed]
You're joking, right? You didn't just ask "why should a criminal investigation investigate the location and debris within and surrounding the area of a crime scene?"
War: Nope. You are claiming that a controlled demo;lition occurred. To use one of your fellow Moonbat's phraseology...you can't even support he "effect" of a CD which makes your argument of "cause" moot.

So, you are admitting that the investigation into the fire and collapse of a skyscraper, which could have led to the deaths of hundreds of people, began, at the outset, with the presumption that the CRIME SCENE was not, in fact, a crime scene. The authorities (police, FBI, CIA, etc.) ruled out a crime had occurred from the outset, prior to conducting any investigations, gathering evidence, and speaking to witnesses could have occurred. From the moment of the CRIME...it was deemed "accidental" in nature, and the authorities subsequently only followed policy and procedures for accidents!
Yet this was a crime of infamous proportions!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 16:20:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2018. To: war (#2012)
Compare your footage to this footage, and then consider that WTC 7 collapsed yet this building didn't. Why is that? Do you have any handy answers explaining the vast differences between these two events?
Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope posted on 2009-03-31 16:22:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2019. To: war (#2008)
Dickhead...that was posted when you said that none of the WTC buildings were engulfed in flames...

You are a liar. You were speaking specifically about WTC 7, and I asked you about that image at least twice in regards to its identification, yet you ignored me each time.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 16:48:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2020. To: war (#2006)
Asked and answered.

You never offered your own words, so give me what YOU think that number is. Tell me how long you think it took each tower to fall.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 16:49:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2021. To: war (#2007)
read the thread. I'm done repeating myself.

So you admit that you made that number up, right? You're telling me that you can not post a link that backs up your claim that it took WTC 7 thirteen seconds to collapse, correct?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 16:51:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2022. To: war (#2014)
They did not collapse at free fall speed.

Now WHICH buildings are you talking about war? WTC1, WTC2, or WTC7. How long DID each building take to collapse, and give us some PROOF of what you claim.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 16:53:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2023. To: war (#2014)
Did I stutter?

yes

You don;t tap dance very well. You claimed thatg something "caused" those buildings to effectively collapse at free fall speed.

They did not collapse at free fall speed.

not dancing with your clumsy self, i'm trying to help you perceive simple, basic physical concepts.
never mind about collapsing structures for a moment.
if you drop a penny from you hand it will accelerate towards the earth because the earth is massive and nothing hinders the penny in the interval.
acceleration (the rate of change of velocity) due to gravity means precisely that speed will increase.
this is calculable.
there is no such thing as a set "free fall speed" (sic) (unless we're discussing orbiting bodies, as the more exact term velocity will change since it is expressed as a vector, and thus change in direction will be included in the term (not just scalar speed) (unless a vector for orbital free fall were presented in polar coordinates perhaps or as a path integral maybe, but lets keep it simple, sweety: gravity causes acceleration which by definition is increasing speed)).
back to buildings: the nice high school math teacher has shown (to any reasonable, informed person) that wtc7's collapse didn't merely approach free fall, but, in fact, balls-to-the-wall was equivalent to free fall for a significant portion of the collapse.
are you following?

postpunk posted on 2009-03-31 17:04:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2024. To: war (#2014)
They did not collapse at free fall speed.

Proof?
Links?

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 17:28:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2025. To: war (#1992) (Edited)
Oh, so you think the columns became wet noodles too?
Huh?
You need to start subtitling your responses. I can't read Moronese.

Not a good response war.
You think the core columns were "pulled" inward by the same load they had on them before becasue the floor sagged some? WTH? Are you retarded? You think the core columns could be pulled by a mass that it has held up for about 30 years with no problem just because of a few fires and relatively MINOR exterior damage. You are smoking some serious shit dude.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-31 17:39:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2026. To: Rotara (#1089)
Dumb phuck,
Please explain why WTC 7 was demolished and why they lied about it in spite of eyewitnesses and the building owner's own words ?

Oooh, ooh! The nefarious "they". Who are they, and why should I care?
Ancient history, and internet gossip, Jackass.

Sarajevo posted on 2009-03-31 19:05:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2027. To: Rotara (#1089)
Dumb phuck,

F*ckstick, I just wanted to mention that it's in poor taste to bring comments from one site and post them to another in the manner you do it. No discussion, no room for discourse, just slanderous comments.
You're acting like the Crevo's on ToS vs the Evo's on Darwin Central.

Sarajevo posted on 2009-03-31 19:13:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2028. To: Sarajevo (#2026) (Edited)
Oooh, ooh! The nefarious "they". Who are they, and why should I care?
Ancient history, and internet gossip, Jackass.

"They" are your worst nightmare. "They" will toss you aside and eat your children when they are done using you. 9/11 is no more ancient history than the alleged "Holocaust" the Jews like to talk about is. The only difference is, one is fact, the other is fiction.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-31 19:15:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2029. To: Rotara, packrat1145 (#1089) (Edited)
Packrat1145 is the slimy little Jew that wants to kill all Palestinians. Someone needs to take care of the new "Hitker" before he tries.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-03-31 19:20:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2030. To: Rotara (#1091)
49. To: packrat1145 (#34)
There's a 973 post thread over at freedumb4UM about the outage.
Correction:
There's a thread over at FreedomForum about the outage that has 973 (now 987) posts; but there are probably only about 100 posts on that thread that are actually about LP.
The rest are about Jews, who loves Jews, who hates Jews
I strongly doubt that any poster loves Jews at 4umdumdum :)
Hi , All
I've missed all the drama, being away :)
Marguerite posted on 2009-03-23 18:33:02 ET Reply Trace
You luciferian globalist world order golden calf jews can all dry up and blow away for all I care.

Marguerite is just as bad as Goldi, if not worse.
They both love the Zionists.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 19:34:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2031. To: war (#1910) (Edited)
It's a moronic parsing...the tanks are part of the plane...it's like saying a car doesn't crash but its front end does.

So the planes themselves would have caused a fire hot enough to melt steel? I'm hearing several different stories from you, boo-boo. Did the jet fuel vaporize on impact into a huge fireball, did it embed itself in office furniture waiting for its chance, or did it run down the stairs into the parking garage getting that whole reinforced structure all hot and unstable too. Hot enough to melt? I don't know. A bad risk? Never go into a building Osama bin Laden tried to destroy once and failed, eh?
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-31 20:37:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2032. To: Sarajevo, Rotara, Mudboy Slim (#2027)
F*ckstick, I just wanted to mention that it's in poor taste to bring comments from one site and post them to another in the manner you do it. No discussion, no room for discourse, just slanderous comments.

Ever stop to think that Rotara, like myself, might be banned from that site?
Hell, I recently tried to make amends, to no avail, just ask mudboy.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-31 20:42:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2033. To: TwentyTwelve (#2030)
Marguerite is a hideous, lox munching beast who deserves to tossed, ass first, into occupied Gaza with a sign saying "I hate Palestinians."

Jethro Tull posted on 2009-03-31 20:44:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2034. To: Jethro Tull (#2033)
Marguerite is a hideous, lox munching beast who deserves to tossed, ass first, into occupied Gaza with a sign saying "I hate Palestinians."

Well said.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 20:47:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2035. To: Dakmar (#2031)
So the planes themselves would have caused a fire hot enough to melt steel?

No, it wasn't the planes themselves but the Magickal Jet Fuel™ that was used one time and one time only and just in the planes that crashed on 9/11. A 747 crashed into an apartment building in the Netherlands (Schipol I believe was the name of the town) and the apartment building didn't fall.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-31 20:47:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2036. To: RickyJ, Happy2Bme, Fred Mertz (#2029)
Packrat1145 is the slimy little Jew that wants to kill all Palestinians.

"Aaron" gets my vote for Droopy Eyed Zionist Fucktard award this time around:
30. To: Fred Mertz (#28)

Thank g*d there is an ADL. Pigs need to be kept caged.

Aaron posted on 2009-03-30 12:40:45 ET Reply Trace

The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-31 20:48:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2037. To: James Deffenbach (#2035)
Magickal Jet Fuel™

You can even eat the dishes?
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-31 20:52:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2038. To: Dakmar (#2037)
You can even eat the dishes?

Huh?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-31 20:57:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2039. To: James Deffenbach (#2038)
Who can take tomorrow
Dip it in a deam
Seperate the sorrow
And collect up all the cream?

Not me, brother!
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-03-31 21:02:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2040. To: TwentyTwelve (#2009)
demolition squibs clearly seen in video

bump!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:05:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2041. To: war, Litus (#2014)
http://rattube.com/blog1/2007/02/26/the-smoking-gun-wtc7-bbc-jumps-the-gun/t rackback/
February 26, 2007
THE SMOKING GUN WTC7, BBC JUMPS THE GUN !!!
9/11 Building 7 Collapse - WTC7 23 Minute Warning - Salomon Brothers Building
BBC Error ! Huge smoking gun of pre-knowledge collapse of WTC7 *911blogger.com
“On September 11th 2001, BBC World reported at 4:57pm Eastern Time that the Salomon Brothers Building (more commonly known as WTC7 or World Trade Building 7) had collapsed.
This even made the 5pm EST headlines, what is bizarre is that the building did not actually collapse until 5:20pm EST.
9/11 was unusual enough, without BBC World being able to foretell the destiny of WTC 7.
What is even stranger, is that the women reporter is telling the world that the building had collapsed when you can see it in the background over her left shoulder.
Then at 5:15pm EST, just five minutes before the building did actually collapse, her live connection from New York to London mysteriously fails.
So the question is, on 9/11 how did the BBC learn that WTC7 collapsed 23 minutes before it actually did.
Building Seven was 47 storeys, modern in design with structural steel throughout, yet symmetrically collapsed in 6.5 seconds, was someone leaking information.
No steel framed skyscraper has ever collapsed due to fire, before or after 9/11, most people who find out about WTC7, believe it was brought down by a controlled demolition, even demolition experts agree.” *911Blogger.com
**
Rat says: It’s here!!! The smoking gun of 9/11 that can not be disputed. BBC reporters jump the gun reporting the collapse of WTC7 until they cut the feed just 5 minutes prior to the actual demolition. People, the news is choreographed, this proves it and shows how wide spread the disinfo goes. No more denial, this is it….. they have to strike now. I can’t wait for the spin on this blunder, it will be extremely brazen. The timeline is indeed accurate given the anchor’s comments at 00:17:30 into the video where he states “it has been some 8 hours since the attack.” 9 am plus 8 equals 5 pm !!!!!
Google has pulled the video completely from their site. I have access to a crude copy and will work diligently to get it back on. CRUDE VIDEO

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 21:06:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2042. To: TwentyTwelve (#2041)
bump!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:11:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2043. To: litus, war (#2042)
No one noticed anybody preparing the buildings for demolition.
9/11 Security Courtesy of Marvin Bush
Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served. [Utne]
According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down."

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 21:12:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2044. To: litus (#2042)
Other Indications of Controlled Demolition
Some witnesses reported other phenomena, beyond explosions, suggestive of controlled demolition.
The Appearance of Implosion: When a building close to other buildings is brought down by controlled demolition, as mentioned earlier, it typically implodes and hence comes straight down into, or at least close to, its own footprint, so that it does not fall over on surrounding structures.
As we saw above in the accounts that were previously available, both police and fire officials were quoted as saying that the towers seemed to implode. This perception was also stated in the oral history of Lieutenant James Walsh, who said: "The [north tower] didn't fall the way you would think tall buildings would fall. Pretty much it looked like it imploded on itself."35
Flashes: Another common feature of controlled demolitions is that people who are properly situated may see flashes when the explosives go off. Assistant Commissioner Stephen Gregory said: “I thought . . . before . . . No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. . . . Lieutenant Evangelista . . . asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I . . . saw a flash flash flash . . . [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw.”36
Flashes were reported in the north tower by Captain Karin Deshore, who said: “Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash.”37
Demolition Rings: At this point, Deshore’s account moved to another standard phenomenon seen by those who watch controlled demolitions: explosion rings, in which a series of explosions runs rapidly around a building. Deshore’s next words were: “Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building."38
An explosion ring (or belt) was also described by firefighter Richard Banaciski. Speaking of the south tower, he said: “[T]here was just an explosion. It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.”39
A description of what appeared to be a ring of explosions was also given by Deputy Commissioner Thomas Fitzpatrick, who said: "We looked up at the [south tower] . . . . All we saw was a puff of smoke coming from about 2 thirds of the way up . . . . It looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building. . . . My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV."40
The above are excerpts from some 500 Firemen and rescue responders who testified on Video ...as directed by the Fire Dept to have an official Historic record.
This was refused by the 9-11 Commission for thier offical report.
These testimonies [Now official record as NY Mayor wilted and released them] allong with Hero Rodriguez prove that 9-11 was an inside job.
Building 7's Fall on film only empasizes how maniacle the overall scheme really was.
In the end...it will be the Video tape of 9-11 that is the NWO's undoing.
All the video with-held via National Security claim. missing Video/CCD even goes back to OKC bombing as 12 different camera's have video which the Gov refuses to release.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 21:15:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2045. To: TwentyTwelve (#2044)

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:19:11 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2046. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#2043)
No one noticed anybody preparing the buildings for demolition.
9/11 Security Courtesy of Marvin Bush

oops!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:19:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2047. To: War (#2045)
Try to explain this!

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 21:20:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2048. To: litus (#2046)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/
Controlled Demolitions in the Towers?
Why couldn’t they have simply, over time, and lets face it, they had ten years, from the first attempt ten yrs prior, to organize....
After the first bombing, I am sure there was a security shake up in the whole scene at the security department of the complex....
Why is it not feasible that an entire team of men worked to rig the building over a very long period of time.... ?
Slowly, and with security taken care of in sections, sectors, its not like every security guard has access to every security zone....
It could easily have been done if the whole security team was special ops, hired over time to sit put like any terrorist cell, doing their little jobs, until the whole building complex was rigged and ready...
Hell the security team itself might have been ignorant to the big picture...
You would only have to rig the several floors below the implosion of the jets, if they were jets....
Once the top of the building began to fall, the bottom floors, perhaps just the sub basements would give way....
If you only had to load several floors to do the job, that would make it alot easier
Remember we have only seen the collapse from outside the building... We didn’t get films of the collapse from inside, or from outside at ground level, and so much of it was obfuscated by smoke....
Why is it unbelievable that the walls of the buildings couldnt have been full to the brim with little bombs ready to go by remote?
There is a lot of backspace in a big building, alleys, hallways, space between walls, space between floors, elevator shafts, utility rooms, its not really a question the more I think of it....
How could they have rigged the whole building without being detected?
Easily, that’s how....
Slowly, there’s a clue, over time... And it may not have had to be rigged on every floor.... Don’t forget, once the collapse began, the smoke concealed alot.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 21:22:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2049. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#2044)

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:25:11 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2050. To: TwentyTwelve (#2048)
It could easily have been done if the whole security team was special ops, hired over time to sit put like any terrorist cell, doing their little jobs, until the whole building complex was rigged and ready...

It may not have even taken as long a time to do as even a terrorists length of patience.
: )

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:26:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2051. To: litus (#2049)
http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showConnection.php?id1=297&id2=4811
Connection between 911 and Controlled Demolition Inc. - CDI
CDI was instrumental in devising a plan to recycle the WTC steel. CEO Mark Loizeaux's CDI was also hired to bury the rubble of the Murrah Building in the wake of the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Tully Construction was one of four companies awarded contracts by New York City's Department of Design and Construction to dispose of the rubble at Ground Zero, and CDI was subcontracted by Tully and was instrumental in devising a plan to recycle the steel.
The involvement of Steve Tully and Mark Loizeaux in the destruction of the evidence of the unprecedented collapses would seem to disqualify them as objective reporters of evidence.
Interestingly, CDI was also hired to bury the rubble of the Murrah Building in the wake of the Oklahoma City Bombing.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 21:26:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2052. To: Litus, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#2051)
How do you make a building dance down the street? Or walk sideways? It's the kind of control that only a master of blasting and demolition like Mark Loizeaux could pull off. He's head of Controlled Demolition Incorporated, the company known to everyone with something difficult to demolish. Since his father Jack set up the company, the family has brought down or blown up 7000 structures ranging from bridges to weapons, everywhere from the US to Argentina via Iraq. Liz Else talked to him within earshot of the rest of the family at CDI's headquarters deep in the peaceful countryside north of Baltimore.
Mark Loizeaux took a degree in business administration at the University of Tennessee, where he also studied architectural engineering. Apart from never having "done anything constructive in our entire history", the Loizeaux family set many world records, including imploding the largest single building (the J.L. Hudson department store in Detroit, 134 metres tall and 200,000 square metres). Other major blasts starred in movies such as Mars Attacks!, Lethal Weapon 3, Enemy of the State

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 21:29:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2053. To: All (#0)
How many of you have listened to at least on of Jack McLamb's shows?

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-31 21:30:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2054. To: TwentyTwelve (#2051)
The involvement of Steve Tully and Mark Loizeaux in the destruction of the evidence of the unprecedented collapses would seem to disqualify them as objective reporters of evidence.

I'd say. Especially since, I believe, this was a major part of his business at the time.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:33:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2055. To: Itistoolate (#2053)
I have not.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:33:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2056. To: litus (#2055)
thanks, just wondering

Itistoolate posted on 2009-03-31 21:37:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2057. To: litus (#2054)
www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc2_cutter.html
"As we were moving toward the building we saw the top begin to blow out in a plume of smoke and we heard the noise associated with an implosion."
WMV video download (120kB)
Evidence of Demolition Charges In WTC 2
Before proceeding with this page let me explain a little something about explosives and how people perceive them.
I work in special effects. In films, great use is made of low velocity explosives such as untamped black powder and ANFO because they are low velocity explosives. With a great whoosh and roar they belch forth with fire and smoke in a manner that has caused folks to drop their popcorn in matinees ever since sound came in.
Movies have conditioned people to expect a certain look and sound to explosions, all based on very low velocity explosives. In a stunning ironic twist, moviegoers seem to perceive the slower explosions as more powerful.
Demolition experts will tell you that high brissive or high velocity explosives actually are more powerful, as they build up a powerful shock wave.
Here's what demolition experts use in steel framed buildings, the linear shaped charge ... It generates around 3,000,000 psi pressure ... at a speed in excess of 27,000 feet per second ... There are over 1000 different types of explosive ... With the use of delays we can control ... where the debris lands ... vibration ... noise level.
WMV video download (680kB)
The job of a shaped charge is to cut steel H-beams. "The way we do this is by cutting the beam at an angle which through a series of beams cut at the same angle will tend to make the building shift over and 'walk'"
WMV video download (670kB)
If a "progressive collapse" is required the beams are cut at opposite angles:
However, except for actually collapsing a structure, such explosives are unsuitable for film. The blast is over so quickly it can be missed while the film is moving between one frame and the next. There is very little visible smoke and flash, and the "crack" of a C-4 cutter charge is downright disappointing to hear.
Thus, the average person's awareness of what an explosion is supposed to look and sound like is based on the movies and low velocity explosives only. In not knowing what high velocity explosives sound like or feel like (as the shock wave moves through the earth), many people might not understand what they heard or felt on 9/11.
With the above in mind lets take a look at the collapse of World Trade Center 2... "...and then all of a sudden it started like... it sounded like gunfire... you know, bang, bang, bang, and then all of a sudden three big explosions."
WMV video download (231kB)
"It [WTC 2] started exploding," said Ross Milanytch, 57, who works at nearby Chase Manhattan Bank. "It was about the 70th floor. And each second another floor exploded out for about eight floors, before the cloud obscured it all." [ASNE] "I saw small explosions on each floor." [Wing TV]
"It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down." [Ed Cachia - Firefighter [Engine 53]]
One eyewitness whose office is near the World Trade Center told AFP that he was standing among a crowd of people on Church Street, about two-and-a-half blocks from the South tower, when he saw "a number of brief light sources being emitted from inside the building between floors 10 and 15." He saw about six of these brief flashes, accompanied by "a crackling sound" before the tower collapsed. Each tower had six central support columns. [American Free Press]
"We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions." [Rich Banaciski - Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)]
"When I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, ..I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down."
Q. "Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?"
A. "No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me… He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too." [Stephen Gregory - Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)]
"Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." [Karin Deshore - Captain (E.M.S.)]
Video showing the collapse of World Trade Center 2.
Note the "pops".
WMV video download (447kB)
"It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop" That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that's when I saw the building coming down." [Daniel Rivera - Paramedic (E.M.S.)]
As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out. [Joseph Meola - Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)]
The sight of the jumpers was horrible and the turning around and seeing that first tower come down was unbelievable. The sound it made. As I said I thought the terrorists planted explosives somewhere in the building. That's how loud it was, crackling explosive, a wall. That's about it. Any questions? [James Drury - Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)]
The demolition of the Landmark Tower in Fort Worth, Texas - 3/18/2006
Different technique, same result? Note the flashes and dust.
WMV video download (507kB)
"You have two hundred and ten story office buildings. You don't find a desk. You don't find a chair. You don't find a telephone, a computer. The biggest piece of a telephone I found was half of the keypad. The building collapsed to dust."
WMV video download (907kB)
Peter Tully, president of [Tully Construction], was, notably, the only person willing to speak openly with AFP about his work at the WTC site. ... “Think of the thousands of file cabinets, computers, and telephones in those towers—I never saw one—every thing was pulverized,” Tully said. “Everything that was above grade—above the 6th and 7th floor—disintegrated . . . it was like an explosion.” Tully Construction specializes in concrete. AFP asked Tully if he had ever seen concrete pulverized as it was at the WTC. “No—never,” he said. [AFP]
See also: The 9/11 WTC Collapses: An Audio-Video Analysis
What Really Happened

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 21:37:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2058. To: litus (#2054)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/180906bushimplies.htm
Bush Tacitly Implies WTC Controlled Demolition?
Makes strange 'explosives in U.S. buildings' reference during torture speech Friday
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | September 18 2006
During his speech Friday in which the President argued for the gutting of the Geneva convention and the legal classification of torture, Bush made a strange comment about explosives and their placement in U.S. buildings. Was this a tacit admission of 9/11 controlled demolition?
Here's the quote in full from the White House website.
"For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of planned attacks of buildings inside the U.S. and how operatives were directed to carry them out."
"That is valuable information for those of us who have the responsibility to protect the American people. He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a high -- a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping."
Click here for the audio.
The onset of both towers' collapse began at high points in the buildings. Is Bush implying planted incendiary devices were responsible for their destruction?
Comments on the meaning of what Bush said varied on the 911 Blogger website.
"There is no way to spin this around to say, "yeah, we knew all along that there were explosives in those buildings." But I'd sure like to see him try it! Imagine all the left gatekeepers who have openly scoffed at the "bombs brought down the towers" theory, suddenly trying to come back around to support the new government spin!"
"I think Bush is being set up to take the fall for 911," writes one, fearing Bush will be used as a higher level patsy to placate the burgeoning 9/11 truth movement.
Ben Fountain and Scott Forbes, who both worked in the twin towers, are on the record as saying that there were numerous evacuations and power-downs of the twin towers in the weeks leading up to the attack - more so than would be usually expected for a high profile building.
"How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on," Fountain told People Magazine.
In an online interview, Forbes said that the power down which took place the weekend before the attack was "unprecedented" and required a shutdown of the top 50 floors of the south tower - the reason for the shutdown was given as "re-cabling."
"The power outage meant that many of the 'ordinary' building features were not operating, such as security locks on doors, cameras, lighting, etc."
Forbes said the sight of strange men in overalls going in and out of the building with tools was highly unusual and that the "coincidence" of it occurring days before the attack was highly suspicious. There has been some speculation within the 9/11 truth movement that the evidence for controlled demolition having been used on both the towers and building 7 is so overwhelming that the government will eventually be forced to spin a whitewash and formulate a "limited hangout" that Al-Qaeda somehow managed to rig the buildings with explosives before the attack.
In May 2002 the New York Daily News reported that Mohammed Atta was in Manhattan in the days before the attack and other outlets have also carried claims that the hijackers were in the twin towers asking directions and casing their target before September 11.
Forbes is adamant that the "men in overalls" performing "re-cabling" operations were ethnically diverse and by no means largely Arab as would have to be the case if the government went with this story.
Though Bush's quote is certainly interesting it is unlikely to represent an entree into a change of tack whereby the government admits controlled demolition but then pins the blame on its erstwhile patsies.
To concede such gargantuan ground would undo the work of several massively funded government studies as well as the 9/11 Commission and it would only undermine further the credibility of the entire official story.
The hubris and arrogance of the Bush administration ensures it does not do 'retractions' and you won't see one here. The survival of the official lie depends solely on its constant repetition and any deviation from that mould would result in catastrophe for the collaborators and conspirators who carried out 9/11.
Bush Tacitly Implies WTC Controlled Demolition? AUDIO

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 21:46:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2059. To: TwentyTwelve (#2057)
"Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building." [Karin Deshore - Captain (E.M.S.)]
Video showing the collapse of World Trade Center 2.
Note the "pops".

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:47:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2060. To: litus (#2050)
hey, litus, have you ever seen William Rodriquez's speech about his experiences that day? here is part 1.

christine posted on 2009-03-31 21:48:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2061. To: TwentyTwelve (#2058)
Here's the quote in full from the White House website.
"For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of planned attacks of buildings inside the U.S. and how operatives were directed to carry them out."
"That is valuable information for those of us who have the responsibility to protect the American people. He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a high -- a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping."
...
In an online interview, Forbes said that the power down which took place the weekend before the attack was "unprecedented" and required a shutdown of the top 50 floors of the south tower - the reason for the shutdown was given as "re-cabling."
"The power outage meant that many of the 'ordinary' building features were not operating, such as security locks on doors, cameras, lighting, etc."
Forbes said the sight of strange men in overalls going in and out of the building with tools was highly unusual and that the "coincidence" of it occurring days before the attack was highly suspicious.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:50:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2062. To: christine (#2060)
No, I haven't. Thanks for posting! I'll watch it now.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 21:52:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2063. To: TwentyTwelve (#2057)
The sight of the jumpers was horrible and the turning around and seeing that first tower come down was unbelievable. The sound it made. As I said I thought the terrorists planted explosives somewhere in the building. That's how loud it was, crackling explosive, a wall. That's about it. Any questions? [James Drury - Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)]

If this is true I hope the neocon bastards and others who did this slow rot in hell.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 21:57:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2064. To: litus (#2059)
The 1975 World Trade Center Fire
The February 13, 1975 North Tower Fire has been carefully hidden from you. Here are a few reports concerning it.

The 1975 World Trade Center Fire
This 110-story steel-framed office building suffered a fire on the 11th floor on February 13, 1975. The loss was estimated at over $2000000. ...
www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_1975_fire.html - 9k - Cached -

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 22:00:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2065. To: litus (#2062)
if you double click on the vid, it will take you to the youtube page. you'll see parts 2 and 3 linked there too. i've met, talked to, and heard Willie's story at 3 different 911 conferences. his speeches are always the highlight. he's a genuine hero.

christine posted on 2009-03-31 22:00:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2066. To: christine (#2065)
tnx...I'll do that now. How many people did he save?

litus posted on 2009-03-31 22:03:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2067. To: war (#1930) (Edited)
says you. did marvin tell you it was all on the up and up?

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 22:09:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2068. To: christine (#2065)
Quote...WHO PLANTED THE BOMBS IN THE BASEMENT?....Endquote

from website

litus posted on 2009-03-31 22:15:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2069. To: mininggold, war (#1937)
could ewwcon or peradventure even beachloser have signed up here as war? probably just some vulcan mind meld thingy.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 22:15:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2070. To: IRTorqued (#2069)
could ewwcon or peradventure even beachloser have signed up here as war? probably just some vulcan mind meld thingy.

I hope it's not Yukko.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 22:16:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2071. To: IRTorqued, war (#2069)
could ewwcon or peradventure even beachloser have signed up here as war? probably just some vulcan mind meld thingy.

Could even be playing devil's advocate, who knows? The name calling seems to be a different tactic though. But maybe Yukie's due to retire and they are having tryouts for his part in the play.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 22:39:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2072. To: IRTorqued (#2069)
could ewwcon or peradventure even beachloser have signed up here as war? probably just some vulcan mind meld thingy.

LOL!!!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-31 22:41:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2073. To: TwentyTwelve (#2070)
I hope it's not Yukko.

Yukkpoo brags about being a regular "respected" participant here.

mininggold posted on 2009-03-31 22:41:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2074. To: war, Elliott Jackalope (#2000)
did you also post the video of the BBC bimbo claiming wtc 7 had fallen while it was in plain view behind her?

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 22:41:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2075. To: war (#1941)
For the most part, if you aren;t a structural engineer, your opinion about the strcutural engineering is going to be fairly useless.

Are you a structural engineer? no? Well STF up then. You are useless.
Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-03-31 22:43:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2076. To: IRTorqued (#2074)
did you also post the video of the BBC bimbo claiming wtc 7 had fallen while it was in plain view behind her?

She will have you to know that she is a bimbette, not a bimbo.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-31 22:45:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2077. To: James Deffenbach, IRTorqued (#2076) (Edited)

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 22:52:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2078. To: TwentyTwelve, IRTorqued (#2077)
Oh, I was just teasin' my bud. IRTorqued and I go back a long ways.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-03-31 22:57:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2079. To: war, mininggold (#1941)
Like whom?

patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html
130+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials
480+ Engineers and Architects
110+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
260+ Professors Question 9/11
210+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
140+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals
RECENT ARTICLES:
Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 “Impossible”, “A Bunch of Hogwash”, “Total B.S.”, “Ludicrous”, “A Well-Organized Cover-up”, “A White-Washed Farce” Jan. 14, 2008 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews
Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 "Flawed", "Absurd", "Totally Inadequate", "a Cover-up" Jan. 5, 2008 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews
Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation – Official Account of 9/11 "Impossible", "Hogwash", "Fatally Flawed" Dec. 13, 2007 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews
Eight Senior Republican Administration Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – "Not Possible", "a Whitewash", "False" Dec. 4, 2007 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews
Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report – Official Account of 9/11 a "Joke" and a "Cover-up" Sep. 23, 2007 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 23:05:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2080. To: litus (#2059)
Video showing the collapse of World Trade Center 2.
Note the "pops".

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2008/300508_b_cutter.htm
Cutter Charge Sounds Heard During WTC 2 Collapse On 9/11?
9/11 Blogger Friday, May 30, 2008
As seen in the documentary "Clear The Skies", cutter charge sounds like those generated during controlled demolitions of high rise buildings are apparently heard at the onset of the collapse of World Trade Center tower 2 on September 11, 2001.

Step by Step Demolition of The Kingdome in Seattle as detailed by Controlled Demoltion, INC on their website. See also their coffee table book on "how to" for building demolitions. (Research)
Here is the VIDEO

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 23:09:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2081. To: IRTorqued, James Deffenbach, TwentyTwelve, Original_Intent, mininggold, war (#2069)
could ewwcon or peradventure even beachloser have signed up here as war? probably just some vulcan mind meld thingy.

war behaved the same way over on LP when the topic of 9/11 came up. He pretty much had the same story, he was there so it couldn't have happened any differently than what the government says...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 23:27:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2082. To: christine, TwentyTwelve (#2065)
Then, on the 33rd floor, they heard what sounded like heavy equipment being dragged across the level above.
This was particularly puzzling because Rodriguez knew the 34th floor was empty and had been off limits for weeks due to a construction project.

christine...after I watched, I believe it was in part 5 of the video, the above story....I recall I have heard him speak before. It may have been on t.v., or it may have been in a video I watched of him years ago...and forgot about his story, except for the above. That part of it I recall, and I have never heard anyone address this.
I presume it was just another item that the commission also overlooked?!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 23:28:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2083. To: TwentyTwelve (#2080)
thanks for posting that

litus posted on 2009-03-31 23:29:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2084. To: mininggold, TwentyTwelve (#2070)
I hope it's not Yukko.

great...I leave to go watch the videos....only to return and have to see a nightmarish name, lol!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 23:31:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2085. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#2080)
war's story is that the wind blew it over.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 23:35:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2086. To: TwentyTwelve (#2070)
easy way to find out is to ask questions about madam mukluk's continuance of the alaskan welfare state system.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 23:37:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2087. To: mininggold (#2073)
ewecon...respected...same sentence...HAR!

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 23:39:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2088. To: FormerLurker, Litus, war (#2085)
war's story is that the wind blew it over.

http://www.serendipity.li/wtc5.htm
The Time the Towers Took to Fall
The time t required for an object to fall from a height h (in a vacuum) is given by the formula t = sqrt(2h/g), where g is the acceleration due to gravity. Thus an object falling from the top of one of the towers (taking h = 1306 feet and g = 32.174 ft/sec2) would take 9.01 seconds to hit the ground if we ignore the resistance of the air and a few seconds longer if we take air resistance into account. The Twin Towers each collapsed in less than fifteen seconds, close to free fall. Following the start of the collapse the upper floors would have had to shatter the steel joints in all 85 or so floors at the lower levels. If this required only one second per floor then the collapse would have required more than a minute. But the material from the upper floors ploughed through the lower floors at a speed of at least six floors per second. This is possible only if all structural support in the lower 85 or so floors had been completely eliminated prior to the initiation of the collapse. Since the lower floors were undamaged by the plane impacts and the fires, the removal of all structural support in these floors must have been due to some other cause — and the most obvious possibility is explosives. Thus the speed of the collapse (not much more than the time of free fall) is conclusive evidence that the Twin Towers were brought down in a controlled demolition involving the use of explosives (or some other destructive technology) at all levels.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 23:41:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2089. To: IRTorqued (#2087)
ewecon...respected...same sentence...HAR!

It's called "double speak".

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 23:44:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2090. To: James Deffenbach (#2078)
we got stuck in Portsmouth England for six weeks during euro97, had a blast asking the limeys what they did for the fourth of July so I'll hardly have a problem calling a bimbette a bimbo.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 23:45:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2091. To: christine, TwentyTwelve (#2082)
Then, on the 33rd floor, they heard what sounded like heavy equipment being dragged across the level above.
This was particularly puzzling because Rodriguez knew the 34th floor was empty and had been off limits for weeks due to a construction project.

John O’Neill begins his new job as head of security at the WTC. O’Neill had been the special agent in charge of the FBI’s National Security Division in New York, and was the bureau’s top expert on al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. [New York Magazine, 12/17/2001; New Yorker, 1/14/2002] He’d left his job with the FBI just the day before (see August 22, 2001). His friend Jerome Hauer, who is the former head of New York’s Office of Emergency Management, had found him the job at the World Trade Center. Developer Larry Silverstein, who recently took over the lease of the WTC (see July 24, 2001), had been highly impressed with O’Neill but insisted he start in the post no later than the first week of September, when his firm Silverstein Properties is set to assume control of the buildings. O’Neill had agreed to this. [Weiss, 2003, pp. 336-338, 345-346 and 349-351] After hearing that O’Neill has got this job, Chris Isham, a senior producer at ABC News who is a close friend, says to him, “Well, that will be an easy job. They’re not going to bomb that place again.” O’Neill replies, “Well actually they’ve always wanted to finish that job. I think they’re going to try again.” [PBS Frontline, 5/31/2002] After a few days as the WTC security director, O’Neill will move into his new office on the 34th floor of the South Tower. [Weiss, 2003, pp. 353-354 and 366]

litus posted on 2009-03-31 23:45:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2092. To: FormerLurker (#2081)
what do clinton, bush and WTC have in common?

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 23:47:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2093. To: litus (#2091)
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4755449627173127935
Who Killed John O'Neill is a video made by Ty Rauber.
In the video, Ty Rauber ties Kroll, CIA and AIG together, speculated that Kroll is a sort of privatized CIA, running on drug money but able to do what the CIA can't because they aren't allowed. Some of this relates to the Hopsicker story.
Who Killed John O'Neill takes on many interesting questions, like: Where do the Kroll "anti terrorism experts" get their information?
The video shows how people move between these private corporations and CIA.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 23:49:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2094. To: IRTorqued (#2092)
what do clinton, bush and WTC have in common?

Hmmm. Ok, I give up...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 23:50:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2095. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#2088)
The Twin Towers each collapsed in less than fifteen seconds, close to free fall..............If this required only one second per floor then the collapse would have required more than a minute. [That means more than 60 seconds]
Since the lower floors were undamaged by the plane impacts and the fires, the removal of all structural support in these floors must have been due to some other cause — and the most obvious possibility is explosives. Thus the speed of the collapse (not much more than the time of free fall) is conclusive evidence that the Twin Towers were brought down in a controlled demolition involving the use of explosives (or some other destructive technology) at all levels.

But war is quibbling over minutia of seconds....when it shouldn't have even been able to happen by less than 1 minute if all the structural support were in place.

litus posted on 2009-03-31 23:50:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2096. To: litus, war (#2082)
Then, on the 33rd floor, they heard what sounded like heavy equipment being dragged across the level above.
This was particularly puzzling because Rodriguez knew the 34th floor was empty and had been off limits for weeks due to a construction project.
christine...after I watched, I believe it was in part 5 of the video, the above story....I recall I have heard him speak before. It may have been on t.v., or it may have been in a video I watched of him years ago...and forgot about his story, except for the above. That part of it I recall, and I have never heard anyone address this.

war did, on this thread, says William in so many words is a liar.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 23:50:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2097. To: TwentyTwelve (#2089)
double speak with a twist and a half nelson.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 23:51:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2098. To: litus (#2091)
John O’Neill begins his new job as head of security at the WTC.

www.jesus-is-savior.com/E...neill-murdered_on_911.htm
John O'Neill - Murdered!
Former FBI Deputy Director...the Man Who Knew Too Much!
"Their feet run to evil, and they make hast to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths" -Isaiah 59:7
Former FBI Deputy Director John O'Neill wanted to investigate the terrorists who were planning to blow up the trade towers on 911, but he was prevented from doing so by our beloved president. George W. Bush signed presidential directive W199i, making it a crime to investigate or hinder the terrorists in any way. Presidential directive W199i prohibited the FBI and Defense Department officials from stopping the terrorists. Why Mr. Bush? Why have you done this great evil?
Disgusted and angry that the Bush administration was obstructing justice and abetting terrorists, John O'Neill resigned his career and washed his hands of the evil so pervasive within the U.S. government.
As an innocent lamb about to be slaughtered, John O'Neill was given a new career as Director of Security at the Trade Towers in New York City. Little did John O'Neill know that his first day on the job, 911, would also be the last day of his life on earth. John O'Neill was deliberately conspired against to be assassinated on 911. Innocent blood was shed on 911. God HATES those who shed INNOCENT BLOOD...

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 23:51:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2099. To: FormerLurker (#2094)
enron

IRTorqued posted on 2009-03-31 23:52:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2100. To: TwentyTwelve (#2093)
Rodriguez knew the 34th floor was empty and had been off limits for weeks due to a construction project.
After a few days as the WTC security director, O’Neill will move into his new office on the 34th floor of the South Tower.

Who Killed John O'Neill takes on many interesting questions, like: Where do the Kroll "anti terrorism experts" get their information?

These are just more 9/11 coincidences....I'm sure!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 23:52:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2101. To: litus (#2091)
John O’Neill begins his new job as head of security at the WTC. O’Neill had been the special agent in charge of the FBI’s National Security Division in New York, and was the bureau’s top expert on al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.

64.233.167.104/search?q=c...hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=37
In Tribute to John P. O'Neill
49 years old. From: New York, N.Y.
Died in World Trade Center
NOTE: The visitor remarks and comments below are NOT NECESSARILY the feelings or beliefs of this website's webmaster or sponsors.

I first heard about you from watching a PBS Frontline piece entitled "The Man Who Knew" and I have been forever changed from that moment. I purchased the video of that program, I've googled and read just about everything there is to know about John P. O'Neill. What an amazing person you were. How lucky we were to have had you "watching-our-backs" and what a shame that you are not here now when we so desperately need your expertise - for there is no one now and probably the foreseeable future who had your ability. You knew the danger that was out there and you tried in vain to alert the powers-that-be, sadly they didn't heed your warnings and the event you had tried so hard to prevent occured on September 11, 2001, the day you lost your life along with over 2,700 Americans. I think of you every day, John O'Neil, you are missed.
*** Posted by Tracy Nadeau on 2006-08-16 ***
God Bless you John, I am proud that you tried to get the FBI to go after Osama, but ashamed they didn't listen to you.
You resigned because of your frustration, and became head of security at the World Trade Centre. Your first day on the job was the 10th of September 2001. From one Irish man to another and the world.
Your service will not be forgotten.
Dublin
Ireland
*** Posted by Shane O'Neill on 2004-09-16 ***

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 23:53:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2102. To: IRTorqued, war (#2096)
war did, on this thread, says William in so many words is a liar.

But .gov hasn't?!
FOFLOL!

litus posted on 2009-03-31 23:54:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2103. To: litus (#2091)
John O’Neill begins his new job as head of security at the WTC. O’Neill had been the special agent in charge of the FBI’s National Security Division in New York, and was the bureau’s top expert on al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.

http://911.swishit.com/JohnONeil.html
Who was John Patrick O'Neill:
John Patrick O'Neill (February 6 , 1952 -September 11 , 2001 ) was a top American anti-terrorism expert who worked as a special agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation until late 2001. In 1995 , O'Neill began to intensely study the roots of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing after he assisted in the capture of Ramzi Yousef , who was the leader of that plot. He subsequently learned of al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden , and investigated the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia and the 2000 USS Cole bombing in Yemen . Partly due to personal friction he had within the FBI and federal government, O'Neill left to become the head of security at the World Trade Center , where he died at age 49 in the September 11, 2001 attacks .
O'Neill started his new job at the World Trade Center in August 2001. Later that month, he talked to his friend Chris Isham about the job. Jokingly, Isham said, “Well, that will be an easy job. They're not going to bomb that place again.” O'Neill replied, “Well actually they've always wanted to finish that job. I think they're going to try again.
The body of John P. O'Neill, a former assistant director of the FBI and an expert on terrorism, was recovered Friday from the rubble of the World Trade Center.
O'Neill, 50, was the chief of international terrorism operations for the FBI. He supervised on-site investigations of the bombing by terrorists of the USS Cole in Yemen, and the 1998 attacks on the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-03-31 23:55:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2104. To: TwentyTwelve (#2101)
SAD

litus posted on 2009-03-31 23:55:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2105. To: litus, TwentyTwelve (#2095)
There wasn't even enough mass or energy left to demolish the lower part of the structure since the upper floors pulverized into dust as they fell into the lower floors.
The equations would be quite complex, but could be generalized to show that the loss of mass in addition to the loss of energy due to the energy being spent in the pulverization process would not be anywhere close to that of an undamaged section of the structure smashing into the floors below.
Someone would need to come up with some values as to how much energy would actually be required to break an undamaged floor and cause it to drop.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 23:56:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2106. To: IRTorqued (#2099)
enron

Yes, but war will say that the Enron case was not affected by 9/11, and that WTC7 was not the only place Enron SEC records were stored.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-03-31 23:58:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2107. To: FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve (#2105)
Someone would need to come up with some values as to how much energy would actually be required to break an undamaged floor and cause it to drop.

You mean, the commission hasn't done this, or hasn't released their "formula" as to how they concocted such a story concerning the WTC's?

litus posted on 2009-03-31 23:58:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2108. To: war (#2000)
I postred a video on here that shows WTC 7 burning out of control. I also posted a photo showing smoke pouring from the entirity of the South face if WTC7...

Interesting choice of words.
What do you mean by 'burning out of control'?
'Smoke pouring from the entirety'?
Come on.
Do you think you're dealing with a bunch of f***ing idiots here?
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-04-01 0:01:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2109. To: litus (#2107)
You mean, the commission hasn't done this, or hasn't released their "formula" as to how they concocted such a story concerning the WTC's?

I've never seen anything from the commission in terms of actual formulas or calculations, no.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 0:03:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2110. To: wudidiz (#2108)
Do you think you're dealing with a bunch of f***ing idiots here?

LOL

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 0:03:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2111. To: Elliott Jackalope, war (#2018)
Compare your footage to this footage, and then consider that WTC 7 collapsed yet this building didn't. Why is that? Do you have any handy answers explaining the vast differences between these two events?

The Chinese don't make things like they used to?
Oh, wait a minute....we just have had numerous recalls on their products.
scratch that one.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
I can't explain why that Chinese inferno is still standing, and how the WTC7 collapsed onto its own footprint.....

litus posted on 2009-04-01 0:06:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2112. To: TwentyTwelve (#2093)
read the book "getting away with murder" by Richard D.l Mahoney arcade publishing 2004 ISBN 1-55970-714-3

IRTorqued posted on 2009-04-01 0:06:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2113. To: FormerLurker (#2109)
I've never seen anything from the commission in terms of actual formulas or calculations, no.

I would think that would be important information to release...if it's a "scientific" study that they wish to be taken as credible. Peer review, and all.

litus posted on 2009-04-01 0:07:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2114. To: litus, FormerLurker, (#2107)
You mean, the commission hasn't done this, or hasn't released their "formula" as to how they concocted such a story concerning the WTC's?

www.prisonplanet.com/arti...st2007/190807Building.htm
Ground Zero Building Catches Fire, Doesn't Collapse
Prison planet
Sunday Aug 19, 2007
The 40 story Deutsche Bank building next to the ground zero site in New York, where the world trade center once stood, caught fire yesterday and burned intensely for seven hours without collapsing.
This represents another modern day miracle in light of the commonly accepted premise that since 9/11, all steel buildings that suffer limited fire damage implode within two hours. This building had even suffered structural damage on 9/11 and had been partially dismantled.
The raging fire, which killed two firefighters, was finally declared under control late saturday afternoon, a full seven hours after it had begun to burn.
On 9/11 the south tower of the WTC burned for just 56 minutes before collapsing, while the north tower lasted around an hour and 45 minutes. According to the official transcripts of the firefighter tapes, fires in both towers were almost out immediately before the collapses.
The saving grace that could have prevented Deutsche Bank from imploding may have been the fact that it was not hit by a plane, as the twin towers were on 9/11.
However, the absence of a jet strike wasn't enough to prevent WTC 7 from crumbling into its own footprint within 7 seconds later that fateful afternoon.
Hundreds of buildings worldwide suffered major fires that gutted the entire facade of their structure before 9/11 and did not collapse, but since the twin towers behaved differently, rather than consider an alternative explanation for the collapse of the towers, experts simply decided to reverse the fundamental precepts of all known physics to make it easier for everyone to understand.
Since that time, it has been commonly accepted that limited fires in tall buildings are 99% certain to cause an almost instantaneous collapse.
More pictures and an AP report on the latest blaze follow.
Firefighters Die in Blaze by Ground Zero

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 0:07:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2115. To: IRTorqued (#2112)
read the book "getting away with murder" by Richard D.l Mahoney arcade publishing 2004 ISBN 1-55970-714-3

Thanks. I will try and get a copy.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 0:08:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2116. To: TwentyTwelve (#2114)
Since that time, it has been commonly accepted that limited fires in tall buildings are 99% certain to cause an almost instantaneous collapse.

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

litus posted on 2009-04-01 0:09:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2117. To: All (#2116)
Saying good night all!

litus posted on 2009-04-01 0:09:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2118. To: FormerLurker (#2106)
what became of the enron case after 9/11?

IRTorqued posted on 2009-04-01 0:13:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2119. To: IRTorqued, FormerLurker, litus, wudidiz (#2118)
what became of the enron case after 9/11?

What Congress Does Not Know About Enron And 911
What Congress Does Not Know About Enron And 911
By John J. Loftus, Atty
7-1-2002

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 0:19:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2120. To: IRTorqued (#2118)
what became of the enron case after 9/11?

Nothing?
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-04-01 0:20:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2121. To: TwentyTwelve (#2115)
I found mine at a half price books store, bought it along with some gun book for my collection of gun books. the cashier only gave me a partial sideways glance.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-04-01 0:23:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2122. To: litus (#2117)
here, here.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-04-01 0:25:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2123. To: All (#2120)
How Dreadful Yet Convenient
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-04-01 0:26:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2124. To: IRTorqued (#2121)
I found mine at a half price books store, bought it along with some gun book for my collection of gun books. the cashier only gave me a partial sideways glance.

Thank you.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 0:26:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2125. To: ALL (#2123)
U.S. ECONOMY MAY BE TURNED UPSIDE DOWN AS A RESULT OF ATTACKS. ALL PRECIOUS METAL EXCHANGES DESTROYED WITH THE COMEX AT WORLD TRADE CENTER.
FTW SPECIAL ALERT 09-11-2001
U.S. ECONOMY MAY BE TURNED UPSIDE DOWN AS A RESULT OF ATTACKS. ALL PRECIOUS METAL EXCHANGES DESTROYED WITH THE COMEX AT WORLD TRADE CENTER.

It is important to avoid speculation at present but one of the least understood immediate effects of these attacks will be on the U.S. economy. The COMEX, the centralized trading floor for all precious metals -- along with NY representative offices for every major foreign national bank -- was destroyed as the World trade center collapsed. So were all the records of gold pricing and sales.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 0:27:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2126. To: All (#2123)
From the comments:
"This proves the theory of ghost buildings. You aren't seeing the actual building but just the energy left over from it crossing into the fifth dimension. Just because you can see it and it isn't smoking like crazy and it doesn't seem to be under attack,, doesn't mean that it isn't. There are alot of unexplainable things happening in the world, and this is one of them. So don't be paranoid!"
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-04-01 0:27:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2127. To: TwentyTwelve (#2119)
I'll have to add that to my collection of knowledge the general public does not want to discuss as it would interfere with their belief the government does all that it does for our benefit.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-04-01 0:28:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2128. To: TwentyTwelve (#2125)
So were all the records of gold pricing and sales.

were those records for gold that actually traded hands or just pieces of paper called gold?

IRTorqued posted on 2009-04-01 0:33:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2129. To: IRTorqued (#2128)
So were all the records of gold pricing and sales.
were those records for gold that actually traded hands or just pieces of paper called gold?

Good question.
I am not sure.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 0:34:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2130. To: wudidiz (#2126)
often referred to as an S.E.P. someone else's problem which I believe is mentioned in the Douglas Adams book So long and thanks for all the fish.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-04-01 0:39:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2131. To: Litus, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#2113)
I've never seen anything from the commission in terms of actual formulas or calculations, no.
I would think that would be important information to release...if it's a "scientific" study that they wish to be taken as credible. Peer review, and all.

www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2240510.htm
The collapse of New York's World Trade Centre on September 11, 2001 is arguably one of the most well documented events in human history. Less well documented is the controversy over why the buildings fell as they did.
At the time of writing, 357 architectural and engineering professionals have signed a petition which directly challenges the National Institute of Standards & Training's official finding that the destruction of these massive buildings was caused solely by structural damage from the impact of jet airliners and the resulting fires.
The petition, demanding of Congress a truly independent investigation, states, in part:
"...the 9/11 investigation must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause behind the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers and WTC Building 7."
This alarming statement is based on evidence from many sources, including observations of the structural behaviour of the towers as they collapsed, the known characteristics of steel framed buildings, eyewitness testimony of explosions, and research into the chemical composition of dust recovered from the collapse zone.
Current research indicates that an incendiary (thermite) may have been used to sever the massive box columns of the towers, causing the buildings to plummet to the ground at close to free-fall speed.
Chemical analysis has been conducted by a multi-disciplinary team led by Professor Steven E. Jones and the results published in the Journal of 9/11 Studies.
The membership of Architects and Engineers For 9/11 Truth is worldwide, and qualified Australians have made contributions. Dr. Frank Legge, a chemist, has co-authored a peer reviewed paper, and Dr. David Leifer of the Faculty of Architecture at the University of Sydney is a registered member of the group.
A major focus of research is the mysterious collapse of the 47 storey WTC 7 (Salomon Brothers) Building, which was not hit by any plane, yet suddenly collapsed into its own footprint late in the afternoon of September 11, 2001.
Building 7 came down in six and a half seconds, generating a massive dust-cloud similar to the one that had enveloped Manhattan when the Twin Towers collapsed earlier the same day.
Researchers contend that only explosives could have provided enough energy to cause the pulverisation of thousands of tons of concrete into dust, and they highlight the symmetrical, free-fall collapse of the building through the path of greatest resistance, indicating that the supporting columns offered no resistance to the falling mass above.
Historically, the only way a modern office building has ever been made to collapse vertically in free-fall, as observed in WTC Building 7, is through the use of shaped cutter charges detonated in a timed sequence.
This procedure is known as controlled demolition, and requires a precise placement of explosives which are designed to cut through supports successively, usually from the bottom up, pulling buildings down under their own weight.
The collapse of Building 7 is visually identical to a controlled demolition, as illustrated in a side by side comparison on Youtube. Demolition expert Danny Jowenko has gone on record confirming this observation. "A team of experts did this", he said.
The essence of why we need a new investigation into the World Trade Center collapses is summed up in a recent paper by Dr. Frank Legge:
"As no reports have come to light of any steel framed buildings collapsing due to fire, and as all steel framed buildings which had collapsed had done so due to explosive demolition, the logical way to have started the investigation of this surprising event would have been to question whether explosives had been used. This apparently did not occur.
The organisations carrying out the investigations clearly selectively collected data and contrived arguments to support the fire theory and ignored contradictory evidence. This is in defiance of the scientific method and flouts the ethical standard of behaviour which the public is entitled to receive from their paid servants."
The hypothesis of controlled demolition finds further support in many eyewitness accounts, including live TV coverage, which described massive explosions in the lower levels of the World Trade Center prior to the collapse.
William Rodriguez, an acknowledged hero of 9/11 who single-handedly rescued fifteen people from the North Tower, described a massive explosion in the basement which occurred before the first plane struck, pushing him upwards out of the seat of his chair.
The New York Fire Department's oral histories project contains 118 witness statements which are strongly consistent with explosive demolition. Incredibly, none of this shocking testimony was included or acknowledged in any official investigation, including the 9/11 Commission.
There is a groundswell of public pressure from family members of victims and ordinary people the world over, to re-open the investigation of 9/11. As seen in the groundbreaking film 9/11: Press For Truth, it was due to the pressure of a group of victim family members, known as the Jersey Girls, that the 9/11 Commission was created, and yet that same commission failed to answer the majority of questions raised by these courageous women.
Films such as Loose Change and 9/11 Mysteries have been viewed by millions on the internet, and opinion polls have consistently shown that a large proportion of the public does not accept the official narrative of 9/11. Many believe there has been a major cover-up, while others believe that September 11 was an "inside job".
As an Australian, I believe there is an urgent need for a new investigation for several reasons.
First, there is the war in Afghanistan, which has already claimed thousands of lives, and appears to have no end in sight. If the 9/11 official narrative proves to be false, then the attack on Afghanistan may be a war crime.
Second, there is the continued erosion of civil liberties in the form of anti-terror legislation, and increases in police powers of surveillance and detention, which relies largely on 9/11 as the primary justification.
Finally, there are core values of truth, decency and justice at stake, which I wish to uphold and which I ask all Australians to join me in upholding as I say to our elected leaders, with all due respect, we need a new investigation.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 0:42:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2132. To: TwentyTwelve (#2129)
it's standard practice for precious metals dealers to sell that which they don't have with the hopes of but no guarantee of ever having and charging clients rent to store said metals. much of the hype with AIG is to keep peoples eyes on the bonuses and off the barbarous acts of shadyism they pulled with silver trades.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-04-01 0:45:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2133. To: IRTorqued (#2132)
..much of the hype with AIG is to keep peoples eyes on the bonuses and off the barbarous acts of shadyism they pulled with silver trades.

The sheeple are easily fooled.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 0:47:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2134. To: IRTorqued (#2130)
I thought it was hilarious.
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain

wudidiz posted on 2009-04-01 0:55:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2135. To: FormerLurker (#2085)
war's story is that the wind blew it over.

Maybe he thinks it was one of them big ol nasty wind shears. They are usually invisible and have been known to bring down airplanes. Maybe one became completely vertical and made a direct hit on the first building then on the other and hours later on the third. Acting like sort of like a compactor. Still doesn't explain everything being pulverized though.

mininggold posted on 2009-04-01 1:32:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2136. To: Dakmar, Sarajevo (#2032)
"Hell, I recently tried to make amends, to no avail, just ask mudboy."

I can confirm...Dak "begged" but Goldi said no on account of Dak's nasty language...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-04-01 7:29:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2137. To: IRTorqued (#2090)
we got stuck in Portsmouth England for six weeks during euro97, had a blast asking the limeys what they did for the fourth of July so I'll hardly have a problem calling a bimbette a bimbo.

I was just goin' on with you (it really didn't matter to me if you called her an establishment whore because she clearly is and just reading her script).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-04-01 7:31:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2138. To: FormerLurker (#2019)
You are a liar.

Said the person who claimed that the planes were ripped to shreds but did not explode inside the building.
The context of the photo is clear. If you can't get it don't blame me.

war posted on 2009-04-01 8:34:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2139. To: Elliott Jackalope (#2018)
Not the same construction...WTC was built with three main support columns and 21 secondary supports and with girders supporting trusses...

war posted on 2009-04-01 8:36:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2140. To: FormerLurker (#2020)
You never offered your own words, so give me what YOU think that number is.

Asked and answered.

war posted on 2009-04-01 8:36:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2141. To: FormerLurker (#2021)
So you admit that you made that number up, right?

Fuck you asswipe. Don;t blame me for your lack of focus and ability to recall information.

war posted on 2009-04-01 8:37:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2142. To: postpunk (#2023)
are you following?

I'm following you blather on...yes.
You claimed that the buildings collapsed at free fall speed. "Free fall" is EXACTLY what it sounds like...NOTHING between the interval of beginning of a fall and the end of it...given the accelerative effect of gravity on a body at rest dropped, calculating the speed of a free fall is a simple exercise of conversion.
In other words, you're trying now to deflect because you assumed that you were dealing with someone who doesn't know what they are "talking" about. That was a faulty, borderline moronic, assumption on your part.

war posted on 2009-04-01 8:45:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2143. To: TwentyTwelve (#2024)
Proof?
Links?

Asked and answered and provided.

war posted on 2009-04-01 8:46:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2144. To: RickyJ (#2025)
You think the core columns were "pulled" inward

The Towers most certainly were and that fact is visible in photos.
by the same load they had on them before becasue the floor sagged some?
Actually, their load had increased exponentially when both interior and exterior support columns were destroyed.

war posted on 2009-04-01 8:52:29 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2145. To: Dakmar (#2031)
So the planes themselves would have caused a fire hot enough to melt steel?

You made this astoundiong leap of logic eactly how and did you use a net?
Did the jet fuel vaporize on impact into a huge fireball
Some did and some spread through the building...
Hot enough to melt?
No-one except you Moonbats have claimed that steel melted...

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:01:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2146. To: Jethro Tull, TwentyTwelve (#2033)
Marguerite is a hideous, lox munching beast who deserves to tossed, ass first, into occupied Gaza with a sign saying "I hate Palestinians."

See...I'm not that hard to get along with...

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:02:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2147. To: war (#2144)
The Towers most certainly were and that fact is visible in photos.

That's the impact zone. No pulling there, that would be pushing. If anything the columns would have been pushed out in a fire, not pulled in. But if the floors sagged, then there was no pushing or pulling. However the floors were designed with fires in mind and they allowed enough room for expansion due to a fire so that there would be no pushing on the columns.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-04-01 9:02:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2148. To: James Deffenbach (#2035)
No, it wasn't the planes themselves but the Magickal Jet Fuel™ that was used one time and one time only and just in the planes that crashed on 9/11.

Who except you Moonbats is claiming that jetfuel caused the collapse?
A 747 crashed into an apartment building in the Netherlands (Schipol I believe was the name of the town) and the apartment building didn't fall.
No..it just destroyed it on impact instead...

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:06:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2149. To: RickyJ (#2147)
That's the impact zone

Yea...and?
But if the floors sagged, then there was no pushing or pulling.
The laws of physics may be suspended in your world but here on Earth they are not.

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:08:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2150. To: TwentyTwelve (#2041)
Given that FDNY started telling everyone at 2PM that they were fearful of a collapse and gioven the fact that this has been posted a zillion times, what is your point? That because the BBC reported this it means there was a conspiracy?
You need to eat your Wheaties and not those Twinkies...

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:10:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2151. To: TwentyTwelve (#2043)
Yea so?

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:11:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2152. To: litus (#2045)
ROFLMAO...what happens when you compress air, moron?
Geezus you folks are stupid...

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:12:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2153. To: TwentyTwelve (#2047)
PIONG to above...

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:12:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2154. To: litus (#2049)
Still don;t get the fact that when air is compressed the force dynamic is horizontal?

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:14:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2155. To: christine (#2060)
The fire, the ball of fire, for example, I was in the basement when the first plane hit the building. And at that moment, I thought it was an electrical generator that blew up at that moment. A person comes running into the office saying 'explosion, explosion, explosion.' When I look at this guy; has all his skin pulled off of his body. Hanging from the top of his fingertips like it was a glove. And I said, what happened? He said the elevators. What happened was the ball of fire went down with such a force down the elevator shaft on the 58th (50A) – freight elevator, the biggest freight elevator that we have in the North Tower, it went out with such a force that it broke the cables. It went down, I think seven flights. The person survived because he was pulled from the B3 level. But this person, being in front of the doors waiting for the elevator, practically got his skin vaporized."

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:18:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2156. To: christine (#2060)
vOn 9/11, Rodriguez told CNN that shortly before the plane hit the tower he was in the basement when:
“ ...we hear like a big rumble. Not like an impact, like a rumble, like moving furniture in a massive way. And all of sudden we hear another rumble, and a guy comes running, running into our office, and all of skin was off his body. All of the skin. We went crazy, we started screaming, we told him to get out. We took everybody out of the office outside to the loading dock area.

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:21:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2157. To: IRTorqued (#2067)
says you. did marvin tell you it was all on the up and up?

Nope...says you and it's an outright lie.

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:23:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2158. To: mininggold (#2071)
You folks are out of your paranoid fucking minds ***thinking*** I am anyone other than who I am/
But it is so fucking funny anyway...

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:24:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2159. To: Critter (#2075)
Are you a structural engineer? no? Well STF up then. You are useless.

I'm not speaking as a structural engineer and neither are any of you Moonbats.
That said, the ACTUAL structural engineer of the building thinks you a Moonbat.
That, alone, is good enough for me.

war posted on 2009-04-01 9:25:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2160. To: Itistoolate (#0)
FBI Warned on Training Before 11th Fri May 3,10:15 AM ET
By JOHN SOLOMON, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - Two months before the suicide hijackings, an FBI (news - web sites) agent in Arizona alerted Washington headquarters that several Middle Easterners were training at a U.S. aviation school and recommended contacting other schools nationwide where Arabs might be studying.
"FBIHQ should discuss this matter with other elements of the U.S. intelligence community and task the community for any information that supports Phoenix's suspicions," the agent recommended in the memo obtained by The Associated Press.
The FBI sent the intelligence to its terrorism experts in Washington and New York for analysis and had begun discussing conducting a nationwide canvass of flight schools when the Sept. 11 tragedies occurred, officials told AP.
At least one leader of the 19 hijackers, Hani Hanjour, received flight training in Arizona in 2001 but his name had not surfaced in the FBI intelligence from Arizona, the officials said.
None of the Middle Eastern men identified by the Arizona counterterrorism agents or any information contained in their July 2001 memo pointed to the suicide plot that leveled the World Trade Center and killed thousands in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, officials said.
"None of the people identified by Phoenix are connected to the Sept. 11 attacks," FBI Assistant Director John Collingwood said Thursday night.
"The Phoenix communication went to appropriate operational agents and analysts but it did not lead to uncovering the impending attacks," Collingwood said.
Officials said FBI counterterrorism agents in Phoenix were suspicious why several Arab men were seeking airport operations, security information and pilot training. The agents recommended that the FBI begin alerting local offices when Middle Easterners sought visas for training at local aeronautical schools.
"FBIHQ should consider seeking the necessary authority to obtain visa information from the USDOS (State Department) on individuals obtaining visas to attend these types of schools and notify the appropriate FBI field office when these individuals are scheduled to arrive in their area of responsibility," the memo said.
The FBI's concerns about the U.S. flight schools is the latest revelation about information, much of it sketchy, that the government possessed before Sept. 11 concerning the possibility of terrorism in the skies. For example:
_AP reported last month that Filipino authorities alerted the FBI as early as 1995 that several Middle Eastern pilots were training at American flight schools and at least one had proposed hijacking a commercial jet and crashing it into federal buildings.
_A month after the 2001 memo from Arizona to FBI headquarters, FBI agents in Minnesota arrested a French citizen of Moroccan descent, Zacarias Moussaoui, after a flight school instructor became suspicious of his desire to learn to fly a commercial jet.
Moussaoui has since emerged as the single most important defendant in the post-Sept. 11 terrorism investigation, charged with conspiring with the hijackers and Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) to kill thousands of Americans. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty.
_About the same time as the Phoenix memo and Moussaoui's arrest, U.S. intelligence issued a late summer warning that there was heightened risk of a terrorist attack on Americans, possibly even on U.S. soil, officials have said.
Law enforcement officials said in retrospect the FBI believes it should have accelerated the suggested check of U.S. flight schools after Moussaoui's arrest but does not believe it would have led to the hijackers.
FBI officials said a supervisory agent in Arizona wrote a several-page memo to FBI headquarters in July 2001 laying out information his counterterrorism team had developed in an unrelated investigation. A portion of the memo dealt with an Arizona flight school, officials said.
The memo indicated agents were suspicious about why several nonresident Arab men were seeking training at a commercial aeronautical school in Prescott, Ariz.
Collingwood said the men "were enrolled in various aspects of civil aviation engineering, airport operations and pilot training." The agents were particularly concerned that some were attempting to learn about airport security operations, officials said.
The Phoenix memo urged FBI headquarters to assemble a list of U.S. aviation academies and to instruct field offices across the country to make "appropriate liaison" with their local schools where other Middle Easterners might be training.
The information was shared with intelligence analysts who monitored terrorist threats and was even sent to the FBI office in New York that had the most experience with terrorism cases, officials said.
After the suicide attacks, the FBI quickly descended upon flight schools nationwide, identifying academies in Florida, Arizona and elsewhere where the leaders of the 19 hijackers trained.
Hanjour, believed to have piloted the jetliner that crashed into the Pentagon (news - web sites), trained at a flight academy in Phoenix between January and March 2001, the government has said in court documents.
Some witnesses have also said they believe another hijacker, Ziad Samir Jarrah, trained on an Arizona flight simulator in the months before the attacks. But the FBI has no evidence that either man was connected to the Prescott school identified in the July 2001 memo, officials said.
The FBI also investigated whether an Algerian pilot who spent time in Arizona may have helped train the hijackers before leaving the United States before the attacks.
That man, Lotfi Raissi, was later apprehended in Britain, but U.S. officials failed to persuade a court there to extradite him to the United States. Law enforcement officials say their suspicions about his connections to the hijackers have since fizzled.
An Arizona businessman who assisted U.S. intelligence said he alerted the FBI in the mid-1990s that one or more Middle Eastern pilots were training or working in his state and appeared suspicious.
Harry Ellen said he told an FBI agent in Phoenix in late 1996 or early 1997 that he met an Algerian pilot and several Middle Eastern men at an Arizona mosque. Ellen assisted U.S. intelligence during the 1990s but later had a falling out over his business and personal dealings in Asia and the Middle East.
"I brought this to the attention of an agent in the local FBI whom I knew," Ellen said. "They did not seem particularly interested in the presence of these people. I stressed it was very odd that the Algerian man was involved in aviation."
"One of the other men I believe was probably Mr. Raissi, although he would have been thinner and younger at the time," Ellen said.
Law enforcement officials said that while Ellen helped the FBI, agents in Arizona have no record or recollection of him providing information about pilots.
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2...5/attack/main509113.shtml
www.patriotsaints.com/New...bi_warned_on_training.htm
makethemaccountable.com/whatwhen/Q07_WhatElse.htm

bush_is_a_moonie posted on 2009-04-01 9:53:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2161. To: All (#2160)
Interesting view of collapse of Building 7

bush_is_a_moonie posted on 2009-04-01 9:55:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2162. To: Elliott Jackalope (#2010)
the total structural failure of a steel-framed skyscraper.

WTC was not steel framed...it was hollow tube/inner core/steel truss...

war posted on 2009-04-01 10:08:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2163. To: TwentyTwelve (#2119)
What Congress Does Not Know About Enron And 911
By John J. Loftus, Atty

hmmm

litus posted on 2009-04-01 10:21:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2164. To: TwentyTwelve (#2119)
A captured Al Qaida document reveals that US energy companies were secretly negotiating with the Taliban to build a pipeline.

That was reported on in late July of 2001.
That said, I believe that the threat that the US made when we broke of talks led directly to the "go" for the 9/11 attack.

war posted on 2009-04-01 10:41:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2165. To: war (#2142)
You claimed that the buildings collapsed at free fall speed. "Free fall" is EXACTLY what it sounds like...NOTHING between the interval of beginning of a fall and the end of it...given the accelerative effect of gravity on a body at rest dropped, calculating the speed of a free fall is a simple exercise of conversion.

gobbeldygooky, yet indicative of an inkling of comprehension while mishmashingly dishonest. the calculations have been done; the free fall collapse of wtc7 is compelling evidence of demolition, however you spin.
why depart from the official version? NIST admits free fall for wtc7, why can't you?

In its draft report, released in August 2008, NIST attempted to cover up evidence that WTC7 fell at freefall, but the coverup was transparent. In its final report, released in November 2008, NIST finally acknowledged freefall, but couched it in a bizarre framework that continues to deny its clear significance.

at least the studied obfuscations and the practised delusions are consistent...

In other words, you're trying now to deflect because you assumed that you were dealing with someone who doesn't know what they are "talking" about. That was a faulty, borderline moronic, assumption on your part.

to deflect? this coming from one who blithely edits his idiocy as if dishonesty were a commodity (is it?--serious question). stupid child, why do you lie?
actually my mistake was assuming to deal with someone who does possess a modicum of perceptiveness, allowing him to recognize and affirm simple, basic, and consequential facts, but instead has shown himself to be stubbornly evasive.
good day

postpunk posted on 2009-04-01 13:07:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2166. To: war (#2164) (Edited)
www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=feature&id=38530
Here is one guy's wagering suggestions for Pool 3. See the last two paragraphs. He neglects to mention the exacta possibilities.
Win Willy runs in the Arkansas Derby on April 11 so you won't get another look if you plan to throw down money in Pool 3 which ends Sunday at 6 p.m.
Here's my potential hunch bet this weekend: $2 Exacta Wheel - #23 (Win Willy)on top with ALL - total cost $46 with fat payouts possible. Win Willy wasn't on my radar but I'll give him a shot to hedge my other bets.

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-04-01 13:56:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2167. To: war (#2159)
That said, the ACTUAL structural engineer of the building thinks you a Moonbat.
That, alone, is good enough for me.

The actual structural engineer would never hear the end of it, would lose his livlihood, and maybe his life if he took the opposite stance and you know it.

mininggold posted on 2009-04-01 14:52:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2168. To: mininggold (#2167)
The actual structural engineer would never hear the end of it, would lose his livlihood, and maybe his life if he took the opposite stance and you know it.

O I C...he actually AGREES with you he just can't say anything...

Shhh...it's a secret...

war posted on 2009-04-01 15:12:24 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2169. To: postpunk (#2165)
gobbeldygooky, yet indicative of an inkling of comprehension while mishmashingly dishonest. the calculations have been done; the free fall collapse of wtc7 is compelling evidence of demolition, however you spin.

Of course, missing from that statement is exactlY WHY it is "gobbeldygooky". That seems to be the MO wityh you Mooonies...i.e. "Fuck all your expert analysis, photos, videos, and eyewitnes saccounts...we believe a radio talk show host!!!"
NIST admits free fall for wtc7
Starkly missing from the NIST report is that admission. OIN point of fact...here is the NIST timeline:

In the draft WTC 7 report (released Aug. 21, 2008; available at http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NIST_NCSTAR_1A_for_public_comment.pdf), NIST stated that the north face of the building descended 18 stories (the portion of the collapse visible in the video) in 5.4 seconds, based on video analysis of the building collapse. This time period is 40 percent longer than the 3.9 seconds this process would have taken if the north face of the building had descended solely under free fall conditions. During the public comment period on the draft report, NIST was asked to confirm this time difference and define the reasons for it in greater detail.
To further clarify the descent of the north face, NIST recorded the downward displacement of a point near the center of the roofline from first movement until the north face was no longer visible in the video. Numerical analyses were conducted to calculate the velocity and acceleration of the roofline point from the time-dependent displacement data. The instant at which vertical motion of the roofline first occurred was determined by tracking the numerical value of the brightness of a pixel (a single element in the video image) at the roofline. This pixel became brighter as the roofline began to descend because the color of the pixel started to change from that of the building façade to the lighter color of the sky.
The approach taken by NIST is summarized in Section 3.6 of the final summary report, NCSTAR 1A (released Nov. 20, 2008; available at http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf) and detailed in Section 12.5.3 of NIST NCSTAR 1-9 (available at http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201-9% 20Vol%202.pdf).
The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:
Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall). Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall) Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below.

war posted on 2009-04-01 15:23:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2170. To: Fred Mertz (#2166)
WIN WILLY!!!!

war posted on 2009-04-01 15:29:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2171. To: war (#2170)
Today is his birthday...no joke.
Win Willy Will Win Derby

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-04-01 15:33:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2172. To: Mudboy Slim (#1738)
Sheeesh, you gotta be kidding me, Pete. After the way we fought Iraq with kid gloves, how can you say we're gonna use nuclear weapons on Iran or Syria? If we go into either country--and I have my doubts that we will--we'll go in using conventional forces...MUD

I wasn't talking about an invasion to "spread democracy" or unprovoked attack. I was talking about a response to a bio or nuke attack on an American city. Anybody that things any president would be allowed to sit to the side and not retaliate in kind is nuts.

sneakypete posted on 2009-04-01 15:40:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2173. To: Fred Mertz (#2171)
Today is his birthday...no joke.

His mama didn't raise no fools!!!

war posted on 2009-04-01 15:42:01 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2174. To: war (#2169)
Fuck all your expert analysis, photos, videos, and eyewitnes saccounts...we believe a radio talk show host!!!"

Hey shit for brains, please point out any talk show host listed at the following website...
Engineers, scientists, and military officials question the official 9/11 story
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:08:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2175. To: war (#2169)
In the draft WTC 7 report (released Aug. 21, 2008; available at http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NIST_NCSTAR_1A_for_public_comment.pdf), NIST stated that the north face of the building descended 18 stories (the portion of the collapse visible in the video) in 5.4 seconds, based on video analysis of the building collapse.
Yet yesterday you posted that it was 13 seconds. Get you story straight bud.

This time period is 40 percent longer than the 3.9 seconds this process would have taken if the north face of the building had descended solely under free fall conditions.
Oh, it took 1.5 more seconds to bust through 18 stories of structural steel and concrete rather than falling through air. Yeah right.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:11:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2176. To: war (#2169)
Do you get paid for this? Your handlers aren't getting their money's worth if so.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:12:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2177. To: war (#2169)
BTW, are you still trying to sell your "the wind blew down the WTC towers" story? Have you passed off Building 5 as Building 7 yet today?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:13:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2178. To: war (#2138)
Said the person who claimed that the planes were ripped to shreds but did not explode inside the building.

Ok war, what part of the planes blew up? Did they have dyamite inside do you think? Were they special planes made out of plastic explosives?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:15:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2179. To: FormerLurker (#2177)
BTW, are you still trying to sell your "the wind blew down the WTC towers" story?

LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-04-01 16:15:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2180. To: James Deffenbach (#2179)
LOL!

I kid you not, that's what he was saying a couple of days ago...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:16:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2181. To: war (#2140)
Asked and answered.

You said 13 seconds for WTC7 just yesterday, and now you just posted it was 5.4 seconds. See how you lie and then claim you've been consistant?
You've consistantly lied.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:19:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2182. To: FormerLurker (#2180)
I have him on my clown filter and didn't know he was making such claims. Clearly, it is time for the men in the white coats to capture him and adjust his meds.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-04-01 16:19:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2183. To: war (#2142)
"Free fall" is EXACTLY what it sounds like...NOTHING between the interval of beginning of a fall and the end of it...given the accelerative effect of gravity on a body at rest dropped, calculating the speed of a free fall is a simple exercise of conversion.

You're saying that two seconds slower than the time it would take for something to fall from the top of a 110 story building is not close to free fall speed?
Do you even know how long it would have taken for an object to fall from the top of the WTC?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:21:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2184. To: war (#2148)
Who except you Moonbats is claiming that jetfuel caused the collapse?

Aren't you one of them?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:23:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2185. To: James Deffenbach (#2182)
Clearly, it is time for the men in the white coats to capture him and adjust his meds.

Him along with most of the other whackjobs over at LP and FR.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-01 16:25:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2186. To: FormerLurker (#2185)
Him along with most of the other whackjobs over at LP and FR.

Yep.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
James Deffenbach posted on 2009-04-01 16:30:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2187. To: sneakypete (#2172)
"I was talking about a response to a bio or nuke attack on an American city. Anybody that things any president would be allowed to sit to the side and not retaliate in kind is nuts."

If either a bio or nuke attack via missile, yeah, we'd return serve. But if it's a local hit via suitcase or vehicle, I don't see how we nuke Beijing if we catch Chi-Coms doing the deed...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-04-01 17:50:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2188. To: war (#2157)
you're the one who seems to be the factaphobic.

IRTorqued posted on 2009-04-01 18:56:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2189. To: IRTorqued (#2188)
you're the one who seems to be the factaphobic.

Yet, oddly, not one of you Moonbats have a) been able to refute anything that I have posted and b) posted any facts which stand in stark contrast to mine and c) in your case, show me that what you've posted is not a lie.

war posted on 2009-04-01 21:29:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2190. To: FormerLurker (#2184)
Aren't you one of them?

ROFLMAO...among your MANY serious issues, short term memory seems to stand above the others...

war posted on 2009-04-01 21:31:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2191. To: FormerLurker (#2183)
You're saying that two seconds slower than the time it would take for something to fall from the top of a 110 story building is not close to free fall speed?

First off, it was more than 2 seconds and, given the significant % differential that even a phantom 2 seconds is, yea...it's NOWHERE NEAR freefall speed...

war posted on 2009-04-01 21:33:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2192. To: FormerLurker (#2183)
...which also underscores my previous observation about you not understanding gravity... Or did you forget that too?

war posted on 2009-04-01 21:34:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2193. To: FormerLurker (#2181)
You said 13 seconds for WTC7 just yesterday, and now you just posted it was 5.4 seconds

What happened to you the last time that you did not read something all the way through?
Yea...you look just as stupid this time...

war posted on 2009-04-01 21:35:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2194. To: FormerLurker (#2178)
Ok war, what part of the planes blew up?

You CANNOT be this fucking dumb. It is IMPOSSIBLE...
The fuel tanks ya dickhead...

war posted on 2009-04-01 21:36:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2195. To: FormerLurker (#2177)
BTW, are you still trying to sell your "the wind blew down the WTC towers" story?

It was never offered for sale. I've always stated that it was gravity that brought them down which was made possible by the dynamic forces first initiated by planes impacting and expoding.
You're about to go on bozo...you're worse than BAC or Yukktard EVER were. You cannot hold a coherent thought. You take bits of an argument and then try to make them my WHOLE argument. There is 0 value added in discussing this with you because a) you continually misremember and I am tired of repeating myself...b) you are stupid...c) you don't offer any cogent responses...d) you are stupid and e) did I say that you are stupid?
So. to sum up...you are just too fucking stupid to deal with.
Have a nice life and my only advice to you is if you see a lot of cars in front of you...don't try to cross the street...

war posted on 2009-04-01 21:42:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2196. To: litus (#1959)
The Death Of John Kennedy

Convenient Deaths
1963 - 1976
In the three year period following the assassination many witnesses died - mostly of unnatural causes. Many rumors crawling around about the high death rate during these years. They are supported by the mostly suspicious circumstances the victims died under. For a unknown shooter or even shooters, all these deaths have on thing in common: they are very convenient to those assassins since these witnesses took their knowledge with them into the grave. But see yourself and decide whether these deaths are purely coincidently:
Date Name Connection with case Cause of death
11/63 Karyn Kupicinet Tv host's daughter who was overheard telling of JFK's death prior to 11/22/63 Murdered
12/63 Jack Zangretti Expressed foreknowledge of Ruby shooting Oswald Gunshot Victim
2/64 Eddy Benavides Lookalike brother to Tippit shooting witness, Domingo Benavides Gunshot to head
2/64 Betty MacDonald* Former Ruby employee who alibied Warren Reynolds shooting suspect. Suicide by hanging in Dallas Jail
3/64 Bill Chesher Thought to have information linking Oswald and Ruby Heart attack
3/64 Hank Killam* Husband of Ruby employee, knew Oswald acquaintance Throat cut
4/64 Bill Hunter* Reporter who was in Ruby's apartment on 11/24/63 Accidental shooting by policeman
5/64 Gary Underhill* CIA agent who claimed Agency was involved Gunshot in head ruled suicide
5/64 Hugh Ward* Private investigator working with Guy Banister and David Ferrie Plane crash in Mexico
5/64 DeLesseps Morrison* New Orleans Mayor Passenger in Ward's plane
8/64 Teresa Norton* Ruby employee Fatally shot
6/64 Guy Banister* x-FBI agent in New Orleans connected to Ferrie, CIA, Carlos Marcello & Oswald Heart attack
9/64 Jim Koethe* Reporter who was in Ruby's apartment on 11/24/63 Blow to neck
9/64 C.D. Jackson "Life" magazine senior Vice-president who bought Zapruder film and locked it away Unknown
10/64 Mary Pinchot JFK "special" friend whose diary was taken by CIA chief James Angleton after her death Murdered
1/65 Paul Mandal "Life" writer who told of JFK turning to rear when shot in throat Cancer
3/65 Tom Howard* Ruby's first lawyer, was in Ruby's apartment on 11/24/63 Heart attack
5/65 Maurice Gatlin* Pilot for Guy Banister Fatal fall
8/65 Mona B. Saenz* Texas Employment clerk who interviewed Oswald Hit by Dallas bus
?/65 David Goldstein Dallasite who helped FBI trace Oswald's pistol Natural causes
9/65 Rose Cheramie* Knew of assassination in advance, told of riding to Dallas with Cubans Hit/run victim
11/65 Dorothy Kilgallen* Columnist who had private interview with Ruby, pledged to "break" JFK case Drug overdose
11/65 Mrs. Earl Smith* Close friend to Dorothy Kilgallen, died two daysafter columnist, may have kept Kilgallen's notes Cause unknown
12/65 William Whaley* Cab driver who reportedly drove Oswald to Oak Cliff (The only Dallas taxi driver to die on duty) Motor collision
1966 Judge Joe Brown Presided over Ruby's trial Heart attack
1966 Karen "Little Lynn" Carlin* Ruby employee who last talked with Ruby before Oswald shooting Gunshot victim
1/66 Earlene Roberts Oswald's landlady Heart attack
2/66 Albert Bogard* Car salesman who said Oswald test drove new car Suicide
6/66 Capt. Frank Martin Dallas policeman who witnessed Oswald slaying, told Warren Commission "there's a lot to be said but probably be better if I don't say it" Sudden cancer
8/66 Lee Bowers Jr.* Witnessed men behind picket fence on Grassy Knoll Motor accident
9/66 Marilyn "Delila Walle* Ruby dancer Shot by husband after 1 month of marriage
10/66 Lt. William Pitzer* JFK autopsy photographer who described his duty as "horrifying experience" Gunshot ruled suicide
11/66 Jimmy Levens Fort Worth nightclub owner who hired Ruby employees Natural causes
11/66 James Worrell Jr.* Saw man flee rear of Texas School Book Depository Motor accident
1966 Clarence Oliver Dist. Atty. Investigator who worked Ruby case Unknown
12/66 Hank Suydam Life magazine official in charge of JFK stories Heart attack
1967 Leonard Pullin Civilian Navy employee who helped film "Last Two Days" about assassination One-car crash
1/67 Jack Ruby* Oswald's slayer Lung cancer (he told family he was injected with cancer cells)
2/67 Harold Russell* Saw escape of Tippit killer killed by cop in bar brawl
2/67 David Ferrie* Acquaintance of Oswald, Garrison suspect and employee of Guy Banister Blow to neck (ruled accidental)
2/67 Eladio Del Valle* Anti-Castro Cuban associate of David Ferrie being sought by Garrison Gunshot wound, ax wound tohead
3/67 Dr. Mary Sherman* Ferrie associate working on cancer research Died in fire (possibly shot)
1/68 A. D. Bowie Asst. Dallas District Attorney prosecuting Ruby Cancer
4/68 Hiram Ingram Dallas Deputy Sheriff, close friend to Roger Craig Sudden cancer
5/68 Dr. Nicholas Chetta New Orleans coroner who on death of Ferrie Heart attack
8/68 Philip Geraci* Friend of Perry Russo, told of Oswald/Shaw conversation Electrocution
1/69 Henry Delaune* Brother-in-law to coroner Chetta Murdered
1/69 E.R. Walthers* Dallas Deputy Sheriff who was involved in Depository search, claimed to have found .45-cal. slug Shot by felon
1969 Charles Mentesana Filmed rifle other than Mannlicher-Carcano being taken from Depository Heart attack
4/69 Mary Bledsoe Neighbor to Oswald, also knew David Ferrie Natural causes
4/69 John Crawford* Close friend to both Ruby and Wesley Frazier, who gave ride to Oswald on 11/22/63 Crash of private plane
7/69 Rev. Clyde Johnson* Scheduled to testify about Clay Shaw/Oswald connection Fatally shot
1970 George McGann* Underworld figure connected to Ruby friends, wife, Beverly, took film in Dealey Plaza Murdered
1/70 Darrell W. Garner Arrested for shooting Warren Reynolds, released after alibi from Betty MacDonald Drug overdose
8/70 Bill Decker Dallas Sheriff who saw bullet hit street in front of JFK Natural causes
8/70 Abraham Zapruder Took famous film of JFK assassination Natural causes
12/70 Salvatore Granello* Mobster linked to both Hoffa,Trafficante, and Castro assassination plots Murdered
1971 James Plumeri* Mobster tied to mob-CIA assassination plots Murdered
3/71 Clayton Fowler Ruby's chief defense attorney Uknown
4/71 Gen. Charles Cabell* CIA deputy director connected to anti-Castro Cubans Collapsed and died afterphysical at Fort Myers
1972 Hale Boggs* House Majority Leader, member of Warren Commission who began to publicly express doubts about findings Disappeared on Alaskan plane flight
5/72 J. Edgar Hoover* FBI director who pushed "lone assassin" theory in JFK assassination Heart attack (no autopsy)
9/73 Thomas E. Davis* Gunrunner connected to both Ruby and CIA Electrocuted trying to steal wire
2/74 J.A. Milteer* Miami right-winger who predicted JFK's death and capture of scapegoat Heater explosion
1974 Dave Yaras* Close friend to both Hoffa and Jack Ruby Murdered
7/74 Earl Warren Chief Justice who reluctantly chaired Warren Commission Heart failure
8/74 Clay Shaw* Prime suspect in Garrison case, reportedly a CIA contact with Ferrie and E. Howard Hunt Possible cancer
1974 Earle Cabell Mayor of Dallas on 11/22/63, whose brother, Gen. Charles Cabell was fired from CIA by JFK Natural causes
6/75 Sam Giancana* Chicago Mafia boss slated to tell about CIA-mob death plots to Senate Committee Murdered
7/75 Clyde Tolson J. Edgar Hoover's assistant and roommate Natural causes
1975 Allen Sweatt Dallas Deputy Sheriff involved in investigation Natural causes
12/75 Gen. Earle Wheeler Contact between JFK and CIA Unknown
1976 Ralph Paul Ruby's business partner connected with crime figures Heart attack
4/76 James Chaney Dallas motorcycle officer riding to JFK's right rear who said JFK "struck in the face" with bullet Heart attack
4/76 Dr. Charles Gregory Governor John Connally's physician Heart attack
6/76 William Harvey* CIA coordinator for CIA-mob assassination plans against Castro Complications from heart surgery
7/76 John Roselli* Mobster who testified to Senate Committee and was to appear again Stabbed and stuffed in metal drum
The HSCA Investigation
Just when the House Select Committee on Assassinations was investigating the JFK assassination, more suspicious deaths were coming up:

Date Name Connection with case Cause of Death
1/77 William Pawley* Former Brazilian Ambassador connected to Anti-Castro Cubans, crime figures Gunshot ruled suicide
3/77 George DeMohrenschildt* Close friend to both Oswald and Bouvier family (Jackie Kennedy's parents), CIA contract agent Gunshot wound ruled suicide
3/77 Carlos Prio Soccaras* Former Cuban President, money man for anti-Castro Cubans Gunshot wound ruled suicide
3/77 Paul Raigorodsky Business friend of George DeMohrenschildt and wealthy oilmen Natural causes
5/77 Lou Staples* Dallas radio Talk Show host who told friends he would break assassination case Gunshot to head,ruled suicide
6/77 Louis Nichols Former No. 3 man in FBI, worked on JFK investigation Heart attack
8/77 Alan Belmont FBI official who testified to Warren Commission "Long illness"
8/77 James Cadigan FBI document expert who testified to Warren Commission Fall in home
8/77 Joseph C. Ayres* Chief steward on JFK's Air Force One Shooting accident
8/77 Francis G. Powers* U-2 pilot downed over Russia in 1960 Helicopter crash (He reportedly ran out of fuel)
9/77 Kenneth O'Donnell JFK's closest aide Natural causes
10/77 Donald Kaylor FBI fingerprint chemist Heart attack
10/77 J.M. English Former head of FBI Forensic Sciences Laboratory Heart attack
11/77 William Sullivan* Former No. 3 man in FBI, headed Division 5, counter- espionage and domestic intelligence Hunting accident
1978 C.L. "Lummie" Lewis Dallas Deputy Sheriff who arrested Mafia man Braden in Dealey Plaza Natural causes
9/78 Garland Slack Man who said Oswald fired at his target at rifle range Unknown
1/79 Billy Lovelady Depository employee said to be the man in the doorway in AP photograph Complications from heart attack
6/80 Jesse Curry Dallas Police Chief at time of assassination Heart attack
6/80 Dr. John Holbrook Psychiatrist who testified Ruby was not insane Heart attack but pills, notes found,
1/81 Marguerite Oswald Mother of accused assassin Cancer
10/81 Frank Watts Chief felony prosecutor for Dallas D.A. Natural causes
1/82 Peter Gregory Original translator for Marina Oswald and Secret Service Natural causes
5/82 Dr. James Weston Pathologist allowed to see JFK autopsy material for HSCA Died while jogging, ruled natural causes
8/82 Will H. Griffin FBI agent who reportedly said Oswald was "definitely" an FBI informant Cancer
10/82 W. Marvin Gheesling FBI official who helped supervise JFK investigation "Long illness"
3/84 Roy Kellerman Secret Service agent in charge of JFK limousine Unknown

Following names are the recently known deaths, almost all died of natural causes:

Date Name Connection with case Cause of Death
10/92 Jim Garrison Former District Attorney of New Orleans, only one who sued in the JFK assassination case Natural causes
?/94 Perry Russo witness who told he had seen Shaw, Oswald and Ferrie talking about the killing of JFK Unknown
01/95 Rose Kennedy Mother of John F. Kennedy natural causes
01/95 L.C. Graves wrested Ruby's revolver away from him after shooting Oswald natural causes
2/95 Irving L. Goldberg Judge who advised L. B. Johnson on transition of power natural causes
3/95 Philip L. Willis Dealey Plaza Witness, photographer Leukemia
5/95 Evelyn Norton Lincoln JFK's personal secretary natural causes
5/95 Phil L. Barleson Defender of Ruby Heart attack
11/95 Richard Case Nagell CIA agent who claimed he uncovered a "large operation" aimed at killing JFK heart disease
12/95 James W. Altgens Dealey Plaza Witness, press photographer natural causes
1/96 Ralph W. Yarborough Dealey Plaza witness, rode in motorcade natural causes
7/96 Melvin Belli Lawyer of KJack Ruby Suffering stroke and pneumonia
8/96 Charles Brehm Dealey Plaza Witness Unknown
9/96 McGeorge Bundy Top aide to JFK and LBJ Heart attack
10/96 Rufus Youngblood Agent who shielded LBJ during the JFK murder Cancer
10/96 Larry Ray Harris Researcher Car accident
10/96 Lawrence Brantley Sold Jack Ruby the gun used to kill Oswald Complications from surgery

>

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-01 22:15:53 ET (2 images) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2197. To: RickyJ (#2028)
They" are your worst nightmare. "They" will toss you aside and eat your children when they are done using you. 9/11 is no more ancient history than the alleged "Holocaust" the Jews like to talk about is. The only difference is, one is fact, the other is fiction.

Paxil can help with your symptoms

Sarajevo posted on 2009-04-01 23:46:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2198. To: Dakmar (#2032)
Ever stop to think that Rotara, like myself, might be banned from that site?

Did you ever try to go back under another pseudonym?
Several have done it.

Sarajevo posted on 2009-04-01 23:50:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2199. To: Mudboy Slim (#2136)
I can confirm...Dak "begged" but Goldi said no on account of Dak's nasty language...MUD

That must have been real "nasty" in comparison to what has been posted by some lately.

Sarajevo posted on 2009-04-02 0:04:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2200. To: Fred Mertz (#2171)
Today is his birthday...no joke.

Northern Dancer turned three just a few days before he won his Derby. He was my first ever Derby pick.

mininggold posted on 2009-04-02 0:43:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2201. To: TwentyTwelve, Turtle (#2196)
whoa. very interesting, TT, i've never seen that list before. but there's no conspiracy. nah. no coverup. nah.

christine posted on 2009-04-02 1:07:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2202. To: Sarajevo (#2027)
F*ckstick, I just wanted to mention that it's in poor taste to bring comments from one site and post them to another in the manner you do it.

WTF are you talking about (again) ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-04-02 3:26:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2203. To: Dakmar (#2032)
Ever stop to think that Rotara, like myself, might be banned from that site?
Hell, I recently tried to make amends, to no avail, just ask mudboy.

She's kosher nutz IMO

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-04-02 3:26:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2204. To: James Deffenbach (#2035)
No, it wasn't the planes themselves but the Magickal Jet Fuel™ that was used one time and one time only and just in the planes that crashed on 9/11. A 747 crashed into an apartment building in the Netherlands (Schipol I believe was the name of the town) and the apartment building didn't fall.

LOL !
Magickal Jet Fuel™ bump !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-04-02 3:28:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2205. To: litus (#2045)
Oops! You guys set this bomb off just a hair too early !

Good God

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-04-02 3:30:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2206. To: TwentyTwelve (#2051)
bump for excellence

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2009-04-02 3:30:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2207. To: RickyJ (#2028)
The Holocaust if fiction?
hoo boy...

war posted on 2009-04-02 7:59:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2208. To: Sarajevo (#2027)
Watch it...this kid will remind you that he's "packing heat"!!! After all...he's a genrul!!!

Doan' mess with me...un a genrul!!!

war posted on 2009-04-02 8:03:02 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2209. To: Rotara (#2027)

war posted on 2009-04-02 8:06:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2210. To: TwentyTwelve (#2196)
When Losing An Argument A Moonbat Shall;
#1 Threadjack

war posted on 2009-04-02 8:10:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2211. To: war, twentytwelve (#2210)
When Losing An Argument A Moonbat Shall;
#1 Threadjack

On a thread about LP going down 10 days ago this is a very funny and somewhat clueless comment.

mininggold posted on 2009-04-02 12:43:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2212. To: mininggold (#2211)
I live for life's ironies, dude...

war posted on 2009-04-02 14:05:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2213. To: war (#2195)
It was never offered for sale. I've always stated that it was gravity that brought them down which was made possible by the dynamic forces first initiated by planes impacting and expoding.

You were raving about the "center of gravity" shifting and the loss of lateral support of the towers, along with insisting that the wind was causing the towers to sway back and forth like a tall pole that you swing around.
You were then implying that the towers fell over because of the wind.
Of course in reality none of that happened, but that's what you claimed.
I can very well cut and paste all of your posts to me on this thread in order to give undeniable evidence of your lies. Would you like me to do that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-03 8:30:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2214. To: war (#2194)
The fuel tanks ya dickhead...

Actually assmunch, the majority of the fuel went up into fireballs OUTSIDE of the building. Additionally, a fuel tank explosion is a low velocity explosion, unlike a high velocity explosion such as dynamite or plastic explosives.
Sure there was jet fuel that ignited and spread inside the building, but it did not explode like dynamite, which is what you're trying to say.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-03 8:41:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2215. To: war (#2193)
FL: You said 13 seconds for WTC7 just yesterday, and now you just posted it was 5.4 seconds

war: What happened to you the last time that you did not read something all the way through?
Would you like me to cut and paste your posts where you claim the collapse time was 13 seconds, where I thought you were referring to the WTC 1 or WTC 2 collapse times, but you then posted that you were speaking about WTC 7?
Now you post an except of a statement that claims 5.4 seconds is the collapse time for WTC 7.
So don't act so high and mighty, you are obviously so full of shit you don't even know what the hell you're posting from one day to the next. You are just slinging shit here and hoping it sticks.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-03 8:46:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2216. To: FormerLurker, war (#2214)
Additionally, a fuel tank explosion is a low velocity explosion

The Friends Of Official Lies will sometimes tell you that the energy in the 10,000 gallons of fuel was the equivilent of x tons of TNT, but they never mention that the flame speed of a kerosene "explosion" is about 20 feet per second vs the flame speed of a TNT explosion which is about 10k feet per second.
Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-04-03 9:37:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2217. To: Sarajevo, Dakmar (#2199)
"That must have been real "nasty"..."

LOL...I never read it. Dakmar, what the heck did you say?

Regards...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-04-03 12:34:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2218. To: Critter (#2216)
The Friends Of Official Lies will sometimes tell you that the energy in the 10,000 gallons of fuel was the equivilent of x tons of TNT, but they never mention that the flame speed of a kerosene "explosion" is about 20 feet per second vs the flame speed of a TNT explosion which is about 10k feet per second

Funny how that peskty plane managed to only impact one face but spill, its jet fuel around to of tyhe otehr faces whereupon a Magicsl Match ignited it.

war posted on 2009-04-03 13:41:45 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2219. To: war (#2218)
Funny how that peskty plane managed to only impact one face but spill, its jet fuel around to of tyhe otehr faces whereupon a Magicsl Match ignited it.

Can you translate that into English please?
Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
Critter posted on 2009-04-03 14:54:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2220. To: war (#2218)
I think I'll forgo the exacta bet and throw down $20 or so on Win Willy this weekend when I head to the simulcast location.

Fred Mertz posted on 2009-04-03 15:13:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2221. To: FormerLurker (#2215)
Ahh speaking of fuel tanks FL, do you know what happens, and what has happened many times, when a jet strikes lightpoles/utility polues with it's fuel-filled wings at 400MPH? It explodes. No explosion prior to impact at the Pentagram yet we are led to believe the jet took down several light poles prior to impact while not even scraping its low wing engines in the dirt. LMFAO!!!
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
IndieTX posted on 2009-04-03 15:13:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2222. To: IndieTX (#2221)
Ahh speaking of fuel tanks FL, do you know what happens, and what has happened many times, when a jet strikes lightpoles/utility polues with it's fuel-filled wings at 400MPH? It explodes.

Not acording to Former Lurker. According to him, while the WTC planes were ripped to shreds inside the buildings, the explosion actually occurred on the OUTSIDE of the building whewre the planes weren't.

war posted on 2009-04-03 17:02:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2223. To: Critter (#2219)
Can you translate that into English please?

Can you stick a broom up your ass and sweep up on your way out?
Funny how that pesky plane managed to impact only one face of the Tower but was able to spill its jet fuel around the outside of the buildings other walls whereupon a Magical Match^TM ignited it so that the fuel exploded on the outside of the building and spared the inside from any damamge.

war posted on 2009-04-03 17:06:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2224. To: war (#2218)
Funny how that peskty plane managed to only impact one face but spill, its jet fuel around to of tyhe otehr faces whereupon a Magicsl Match ignited it.

Duh. The fuel was moving at the same speed as the plane, somewhere around 550 mph. So it continued to follow the trajectory of the plane as the tanks burst and the plane ripped a hole out the other side of the building. Sparks obviously ignited the fuel as the plane ripped through cement and steel.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-03 17:45:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2225. To: Critter (#2224)
...Ping...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-03 17:46:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2226. To: IndieTX (#2221)
No explosion prior to impact at the Pentagram yet we are led to believe the jet took down several light poles prior to impact while not even scraping its low wing engines in the dirt. LMFAO!!!

The American sheeple believe this story.

TwentyTwelve posted on 2009-04-03 17:47:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2227. To: IndieTX, Critter, war (#2222)
Not acording to Former Lurker. According to him, while the WTC planes were ripped to shreds inside the buildings, the explosion actually occurred on the OUTSIDE of the building whewre the planes weren't.

Ah, war can't understand the difference between a low velocity fuel explosion and a high velocity detonation of TNT, dynamite, or other high explosive.
And BTW war, read post #2224, it's all explained for you there.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-03 17:49:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2228. To: TwentyTwelve, IndieTX, war (#2226)
The American sheeple believe this story.

It's obvious that war believes it at least.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2009-04-03 17:50:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2229. To: Mudboy Slim (#2217)
LOL...I never read it. Dakmar, what the heck did you say?

I called Goldi-Lox a **** ****** *** **** ***** **** **** *** *****.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-04-03 19:48:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2230. To: Dakmar (#2229) (Edited)
LOL...that could have something to do with Goldi's reluctance to let you back on.

What is so hard about learning the Golden Rule...don't cuss out the host!!

Regards...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-04-03 21:07:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2231. To: Mudboy Slim (#2230)
What is so hard about learning the Golden Rule...don't cuss out the host!!

It was called for.
And for the record, I did not "beg" to be allowed to rejoin TOS2, I asked if you'd do me a favor by you begging for me to be reinstated.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-04-03 21:12:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2232. To: Dakmar (#2231)
LOL...I'm not gonna beg for you to regain yer posting privileges anywhere, dude...that's on you...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-04-03 21:47:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2233. To: Mudboy Slim (#2232)
But I'm banned from there, try to keep up! :)
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Dakmar posted on 2009-04-03 21:51:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2234. To: Dakmar (#2233)
I just quoted you and provided a link to your plea. I have no pull with Goldi, believe me...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
Mudboy Slim posted on 2009-04-04 0:53:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2235. To: Fred Mertz (#2220)
WIN WILLY!!!!

war posted on 2009-04-04 8:37:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2236. To: FormerLurker (#2228)
It's obvious that war believes it at least.

I don't think so. But that doesn't stop him. He would rather whore himself out to murderers than be a patriot.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-04-04 9:30:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2237. To: RickyJ (#2236)
I don't think so. But that doesn't stop him. He would rather whore himself out to murderers than be a patriot.

Dickhead...show me some evidence that doesn't collapse like a house of cards. NOT one thing that any of you Moonbats have posted has stood up to scrutiny.
Hell, the Moonie you responded to there believes that the planes were ripped to shreds inside the Towers BUT DID NOT EXPLODE.

war posted on 2009-04-04 18:01:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2238. To: TwentyTwelve (#2196)
The Death Of John Kennedy...Convenient Deaths

I've seen a list of sorts like this before (perhaps it was the same) before. It's more than bizarre, to say the least.

litus posted on 2009-04-05 20:37:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2239. To: bluegrass (#1635)
Good heavens, I thought that The Thread That Dare Not Speak Its Name had disappeared altogether.
What a hoot. You guys are like Rottweilers with a locked-jaw death-grip on this thing.

TooConservative posted on 2009-04-06 16:42:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2240. To: TooConservative (#2239)
arrghhhh..that was 600 posts ago and you bumped it again! ;)

christine posted on 2009-04-06 16:59:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2241. To: christine (#2240)
I just scanned my pings list and noticed it.
Please don't get out those latex devices or punish me with that leather stuff again.
I'll be a good poster from now on. Honest!

TooConservative posted on 2009-04-06 17:29:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2242. To: F16Fighter (#1464)
The thread that's changed its focus from the original title

Hey, dude.
****
Speaking of "changing focus", it's cold here in Pittsburgh and it's snowing. I think I'll go make a couple of snowmen out in the back yard.

****

beyond the sea posted on 2009-04-07 8:09:27 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2243. To: beyond the sea (#2242)
hi, beyond...enjoying the global warming i see. welcome to 4um.

christine posted on 2009-04-07 10:12:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2244. To: TooConservative (#2239)
You guys...

Rather than put the focus on 'us guys', address the points being made in my post.
Thanks.
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-04-07 14:31:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2245. To: bluegrass (#2244)
Rather than put the focus on 'us guys', address the points being made in my post.

Sorry, didn't read it. Not into the whole 9/11 thing.

TooConservative posted on 2009-04-07 21:50:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2246. To: TooConservative (#2245)
Not into the whole 9/11 thing.

Then why bother commenting on 9/11?
Eff the Bankers
bluegrass posted on 2009-04-08 3:26:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2247. To: christine, F16Fighter (#2243)

hi, beyond...enjoying the global warming i see. welcome to 4um.

Thanks for the welcome.
Yes, I'm enjoying "the global warming" alright. It snowed a little here again last night, the snow showers moved east around 3:00 a.m., and now it's 27 "balmy" degrees.
By the way, I think that is Al Gore huddled in that thick, dark brown blanket near the top far-right side of the picture.
;-)

beyond the sea posted on 2009-04-08 5:46:31 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#2248. To: beyond the sea (#2242)
Well lookey who made it over...Otis...
This site already has a few town drunks but I think you can lick 'em all...

war posted on 2009-04-08 8:57:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2249. To: bluegrass (#1635)
Every builder/tradesman to whom I've shown the WTC 7 collapse video immediately falls off the fence.

Starky missing is, of course, any evidence that every blah blah blah then blah blah blahs...

war posted on 2009-04-08 8:58:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2250. To: war, F16Fighter (#2248)
This site already has a few town drunks but I think you can lick 'em all...

LOL. Thanks for the polite welcome to this forum.
You can lick a diseased yak's nuts ...... but I suppose that you have already done that after seeing the pussy, oozing sores on your thin pursed lips.
The big question is how you manage to wear those FEM tights over your diseased and pussy private parts at your running events. Lots of ointment for that, eh little "war"?

It's reassuring to see that you are still the low class jerkoff that you always have been. I guess you can't take the dumpy, filthy neighborhood and dysfunctional family out of you, eh "war".
LOL

beyond the sea posted on 2009-04-08 9:43:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2251. To: beyond the sea (#2250)
Good old Otis...reaching for the lowest common denomnator when he need not reach at all for that which is firmly in his grasp...

war posted on 2009-04-08 12:03:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2252. To: war (#2251)
War, you will always be a scrawny-necked, low class feminine loser.
With your very first post to me here at Freedom4um, you immediately began with an ugly insult, yet you do not expect me to answer back to you in kind. How foolish of you.
Face it. You were raised by low-class, weak-minded scum in the dirt-hole known as Crafton. What else could your loser family possibly have generated but a low class scum like you? Absolutely no surprise.
lol

beyond the sea posted on 2009-04-08 12:17:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2253. To: beyond the sea, christine, (#2247)
Yes, I'm enjoying "the global warming" alright. It snowed a little here again last night, the snow showers moved east around 3:00 a.m., and now it's 27 "balmy" degrees.

Geez, it's a bit chilly for Pittsburgh, ain't it?
Hey - is this an army of KKK midgets?? :-)

Liberator posted on 2009-04-08 21:36:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2254. To: war, beyond the sea (#2248)
Dude, don't start the sh*t up already...

Liberator posted on 2009-04-08 21:37:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2255. To: F16Fighter (#2254)
Dude, don't start the sh*t up already...

He could not help himself.

You would have thought he could have waited just a little while, but, his very first post to me was what it was.
What can you say ....... just poor breeding.

beyond the sea posted on 2009-04-09 6:23:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2256. To: beyond the sea (#2252)
Fuck off, Otis...you unrepentently attack a man's wife and family and expect to be greeted how? You're an old drunk, playing the dirt and unable to perform even the most basic of life's functions without slobbering over yourself. In other words, don't be an easy target while making a target of others.

war posted on 2009-04-09 9:52:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2257. To: beyond the sea, F16Fighter (#2255)
He could not help himself.

As if you're an agrieved party Otis...

war posted on 2009-04-09 9:56:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2258. To: war (#2256)
Fuck off

Nice mouth, girlie.
You contuinually expose yourself as a dirtbag chump with lowbrow genes.
Poor breeding ............ is your problem.

beyond the sea posted on 2009-04-09 21:04:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2259. To: beyond the sea (#2258)
You contuinually expose yourself

Don;t want to hear your fantasies, Otis...

war posted on 2009-04-09 23:09:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2260. To: palo verde (#800)
Howz that GOP thingy going for you in Arixonaztland ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2010-05-17 22:34:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2261. To: beyond the sea (#2258)
ping for a heart beat...

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara posted on 2010-05-17 22:34:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest