See other Resistance Articles
Title: Resistance
Source:
me
URL Source: http://here
Published: Aug 15, 2007
Author: 2cb
Post Date: 2007-08-15 08:15:25 by 2cb
Keywords: resistance, freedom4um, posts
Views: 734
Comments: 78
shouldn't this be a place where there is information on how to actively engage in resistance, both offensive and defensive? :) i am suggesting that more posts be made on informing people on methods and strategies. everyone everywhere is telling us all the bad news - but personally, i can't do anything with bad news - anger, outrage, and depression don't work in our favor - talk is cheap. we really need to be serious - we are 100 years too late already. we need to take action, and have fun doing it. the courts need to be jammed with license resistors that have winning arguments, the system needs to be taxed so the clueless feel some more taxes (better sooner than later), people need to stop funding it all with their monies, people need to learn how to get out of it all, new local economies need to be created, the system needs to get tied up with it's own ropes by people that are taking a stand for freedom ... it's better to help collapse the corrupt system under it's own weight now, while there is (possibly) time, rather than to wait for God or Jesus to save us after there is no chance. freedom is like brains and muscles - if you don't exercise it, you lose it. "How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every police operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? If during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever was at hand? The organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Nobel Prize winner and author of The Gulag Archipelago, who spent 11 years in Soviet concentration camps. NOTE: Interestingly, Solzhenitsyn, said in his Gulag Archipelago series, that when asked by other inmates what his time and crime were, he would say "10 years, for nothing", and the reply would be an incredulous "but the time for nothing is 5 years!".
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#1. To: 2cb (#0)
Agreed. We need to stop marking off the time lapse to doom and start gumming up the system. It would be good if people could share some specific ideas on how to start that ball rolling.
To me, the system is gummed-up and failing under its own incompetence. My efforts are geared toward supporting and getting out the word about Ron Paul and his message of Freedom, Peace, and Prosperity. I believe that most people realize that things are not "right" with our country and its policies and actions, both here and around the world. Ron Paul does offer Hope for America. We are personally hoping for the best while preparing for some bad times.
That would be 2cb - doh
The system has US stuck in their gum and it only appears incompetent while advancing pretty much according to plan. If you ask me, their credible deniability is starting to wear thin. Sorry, but I don't believe any one man could pull our butts out of this morass even if the deliberately screwed up voting system wasn't designed and implemented to prevent the election of such a man. I gave up on that idea when Buchanan came in with 4% of the vote.
IMO, most everything pales in comparison to race (which you did not mention.)
Bi-I-Bi, Bi-O-Bo, Bi-I-Biddi-Bi Bi-O-Bo, Bi-Bo-Bi-Bo-Bi-Bo-Bi-Bo-Bi Boop-Boo-Waa The Don Juans had a get together, the gathering was large I do agree that ONE man cannot do it alone..he has to surround himself with the best of the best he can find!!! Giving up isn't an option...that is what has gotten us here to being with! (nothing personal) just as a whole society we have given up...this is our problem! Well one of many!
Ron Paul 2008
Sorry, but I don't believe any one man could pull our butts out of this morass even if the deliberately screwed up voting system wasn't designed and implemented to prevent the election of such a man. I gave up on that idea when Buchanan came in with 4% of the vote. The cynic in me has to agree, while the optimist (Quixotic[?]) hopes, and is working, for a miracle.
I do agree with you in theory, but for one man to lead and gather his forces in official roles, he must first be elected. If the system prevents fair elections, it seems to me that we're going to have to find a different method .... maybe a quasi government in exile, or something like that. Personally, secession is about the only solution I can see as being logical. But no, giving up is not an option.
We ceratinly need to raise hell aboout our rigged elections.
The cynic in me says equal media coverage for Ron Paul followed by a fair election would, indeed, be a true miracle.
How, and with whom do we raise this hell? Will they hear us? Or will they shut us out and up, like always? I know this is an unpopular attitude, but it seems to me that if you don't like something, yet you keep participating in it, you're gonna keep getting whatever the hell the overseers want you to have ... in this case, crooked politicians.
Actually; I couldn't agree more. The only 'hell' I've been raising is to pass along stories of rigged elections, and to encourage people to use a paper ballot.
Little town I lived in several years ago used paper ballots for its local elections. The day the results were announced, a local reporter alleged that he found boxes full of uncounted ballots at the city dump which were subsequently taken from him by unnamed individuals and the state attorney general was notified, however he declined to investigate the claim and the results stood. Then there's Mexico's election last July, which was done mostly by paper ballot and was proven to be completely rigged. They got away with it. Interestingly, the entire story was blacked out in the US media.
Agreed. We need to stop marking off the time lapse to doom and start gumming up the system. It would be good if people could share some specific ideas on how to start that ball rolling. Damn 2cb, I LIKE the way you think. Maybe it's cause I think that way too. (RS) OK. Lets start with licenses. On to creating our own local economies. Now for the quit funding it with their monies and getting out of it all. Lastly let me say that in doing any of the above you are very likely to find yourself in court on more than one occasion as a defendant. Since statistics show that defendants with a hired attorney only "win" 6% of the time in court, whereas those representing themselves pro-se win nearly 12% of the time - you have 2 choices. You'll either need a good lawyer (see my tagline), OR you'll need to do it yourself which entails learning a lot of legal/law issues. Here is where I would probably recommend attending George Gordon's law school. You can find out more about his law school at http://www.georgegordon.com
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. I've tried. So have others. I think most forum posters fall into the keyboard warrior catagory. I think I'm the only one on this forum that tracks legislation. I've posted threads on legislation on LP and FR. No one cares. I created a political forum for California, couldn't get anyone interested in it. The idea was not only to post articles like is done here but to couple that with current legislation and plans to fight it. No one even visited the site let alone join and post. I've gone to fish and game meetings, joined other groups interested in legislation, tried to get them to work together. I ended up feeling like I was beating my head against the wall and actually had open opposition to what I was doing. People in those organizations were more interested in personal power than actually doing something constructive. I've become disheatened and disillusioned by it all.
I've certainly tried. There was legislation here in CA that would have required ID to vote. Couldn't get anyone interested in it. Not even the Grange when they had policy on it. Information came from me and the PTB think I'm a threat. NO one cares. There is always a lot of talk, a lot of people pounding keyboards. Not a damned thing happening.
YES. Skip marriage licenses, which are simply permission slips to procreate little state widgets. Skip birth certificates which designate children as state owned widgets. Skip business licenses. Find a local niche and fill it independently. Skip driver's licenses, know your rights and be ready to defend them. Rescind Social Security numbers, which remain the property of SSA and are not mandatory for the holders, but hold them liable for a losing proposition. Skip doing business with national and international corporations. Develop local products and currencies!!! None of these actions (and more) will be easy or without tremendous potential repurcussion, however doing business as usual hasn't worked out too well for us, either. Documentation and certification is designed to benefit the corp.gov. only, not us. Unfortunately, convincing people of that fact can be compared to hand pushing boulders uphill in August. Even so, we have to teach the three "R's" ... Rescind, revoke and reject. And personally, I'd like to see a couple more "R's" thrown into the new curriculum ... revolt and rebel.
You can't know if anyone was interested enough to vote for or against anything because you don't COUNT the votes. Playing by their rules of the game (voting) isn't going to change anything because the people you refer to as TPTB control the vote count. They are only TPTB because we continue to play their game by their rules.
When you put up a thread talking about it and no one even looks at the thread...that tells me people are not interested. You put up an article and you'll get a bunch of people pounding their keyboard but not one will pick up a phone and call their representative.
If your representative represents someone besides the people and the people know that, whether consciously or subliminally, why would they bother to pick up a phone to call him. Or even post on your thread about it. Representatives get where they are on the backs of the people who pay their way ... and that ain't us. Guess who they're gonna listen to. We've been trying to fix our problems the same old easy way for so many decades now with the same obvious results, so you'd have to expect people would finally catch on. Its an ILLUSION.
Sorry I'm not buying that one. I've had too personal success in my lobbying efforts to believe that. Especially when posters sit and rant about how something should be done on thread after thread after thread.
The reps are going to listen to those corporations and organizations that fund them - they could care less what the people of a state or a country wish or want. Both the TX house and senate overwhelmingly voted to put a two year hold on the TransTexas Corridor debacle so that they could try and find out what TxDOT was up to, gov helmethead immediately vetoed the measure. 90% of the public, and 100% of the affected property owners, and everyone with a brain is against this abomination. helmethead went to both the Bilderberg meeting and to Tel Aviv for his blessing this year.
Different strokes. If you've had such success with your lobbying efforts, how are the bills you promoted improving your life? Are the problems you were lobbying about all fixed? Or did a federal judge just strike them down?
Just because I had success doesn't mean the bills passed.
Exactly. How does this fly over the heads of so many people?
I'm sorry, your definition of success and mine don't jive.
Not necessarily true. Your own example proves it. So does the recent immigration bills. It was mass public outcry that stopped them. The hard part is generating that mass outcry.
Everyone I lobbied voted the way I asked them to save one who had already made a decision but listened to me anyway.
Do you think the folks who pushed for amnesty will just fold their tents and go home now? Or do they maybe have an even more aggregious "solution" up their sleeves?
In order for the voting scam to work, it is fundamental that there are representatives on both sides of any given issue. Of course they'll listen to constituants and some will even vote their way, otherwise the needed illusion is flat on its face. That doesn't mean the final desired result hasn't been pre- arranged behind closed doors, or that the result can't be overturned by a politically motivated judge if it accidentally turns out wrong.
Oh I think the average man on the street who is in favor of amnesty is doing it because they feel they are doing the right thing and yes I think they will continue the fight. The puppet masters have other things in mind. They are working towards things like NAU, probably some others we haven't thought of yet.
I agree. Seems they all want change, but don't want to do anything to bring about change. Perhaps what they are failing to realize is that change always starts on a personal level. If you can't change what you are doing, then how in hell are you ever going to force change upon something as big as the whole country??? I think people care, but again - change requires ACTION. Action beyond merely discussing it on a forum. Action starts on a personal level. While the idea of fighting certain "bad" legislation (and personally I feel ALL legislation which goes against the laws laid out in Scripture are bad) is certainly a good idea - not to mention probably a patriotic DUTY - it still leaves us with the quagmire of fighting what may well turn into a losing battle, as Lodwick pointed out in post #22. Look at all the shit BushCo has done. They could care less about congressional approval, legality, or constitutionality; if he wants it bad enough it's just another executive order away. That's why I maintain that the BEST way we have left at our disposal to "fight" is to simply quit playing the game. They've twisted it to become THEIR game, and THEY'VE made the rules, and continue to change the rules all the time to suit their needs. Sure, we MAY make some progress by "calling our representatives" and so on, BUT that is slow and shaky at best.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. We need to get under helmethead's helmet. A stretch of rope about 8 inches under his helmet would probably be the most effective...
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Couldn't we just shoot one of em every now and then ... they do it ???
"The mighty are only mighty because we are on our knees. Let us rise!" --Camille Desmoulins
That's plan B. Plan C is nearly the same, except 'every now and then' is changed to 'daily'...
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Sorry to drop in but I think you'll find this interesting. E-Gold This is a site providing a digital currency wich is at all times backed 100% by gold. With this, you have a easy way to influence people to drop their dependency on fiat money. I'm kinda suprised this didn't turn up sooner in this discussion.
Signing statements have proved most useful also...
You're speakin' my language friend. Where've you been all my life? LOL.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition <..> [Equal and true MSM coverage of Ron Paul will never happen. If it does, that means he's been corrupted. That's how controlled the MSM is.]
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition Non-coverage of Ron Paul is only symptomatic of the long time corruption of MSM. Can you imagine picking up any major daily paper or turning on the tube and learning anything about the fraudulent creation of the Federal Reserve and internal revenue, or discovering the truth about how federal citizenship doesn't exist other than as public policy? The "accepted" media wasn't telling the truth about these vital pieces of information when they were first being foisted upon a hapless public and they sure as hell aren't telling it now. The truth has always been referred to by yellow journalists as "yellow journalism".
Expound on that please :)
Why are you apologising? Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but any method of commerce that relies on the internet or telecommunications makes me shiver, not only because we could lose those services in the blink of an eye, but also because they're so vulnerable to hacking and tracking.
When congress sends legislation to smirk, and he adds a few notes "explaining" what the bill really means.
Ahhhh, the "smirking decider" strikes.
well, this is my first post on this board and just dropping in and posting to a website comes close to spamming. I realise that there are disadvantages. And I can understand your feelings. Trust is hard to get, especialy if money is involved. we could lose those services in the blink of an eye not sure what you mean by that. lose the internet? One of the design goals for the darpa project which is now known as the internet was to establish a communication network that would still be operating after a nuclear strike. So, if the internet is out, there wont be much left to talk about. Guess you mean this specific service. How could you lose this service? Even if the main server would be taken out, be it by law or accident, another one could be up in less than 24 hours, a continent away. But even if that were to happen, there are many digital currencies avaible, as long as you dont use a single one, you should be safe. Also, there would be no need to keep your whole savings in this. You deposit an amount in there you can feel safe with. If you want to redeem your e-gold to real gold, you can do that anytime. As for hacking, yeah, thats a problem. With e-gold, you get a account number and a password. Once the password is gone, your money is gone too. As for tracking, thats not as big an isssue as you think. You can have any number of accounts, which are not connected by you in any way. There is no easy way to identify you as a certain user of this service. There are many ways of getting money in and out of the system. No single point of failure. So, on the plus side, you have a currency that is backed by gold. Its easy to transfer it, can be changed back anytime and compared to your regular bank account, is way more anonymous. If you follow that link you see the form that allows you to transfer money to me :) if you had an account. Now, Im not asking for money here, but if you know a better way to get gold from one place to the other tell me. You won't see any of my account information, who I am, or how much I have in my account and neither does the FED. Now, this was a long post. Im not telling you to be all over this. Just giv it a chance. Get your friends, create one or two accounts each, say about 50$ in total, try to send money with it. But more importantly, spread the word
au contraire! we're glad you've joined us..welcome to 4. ;)
ping to SkyRat's post regarding E-Gold..your opinions please?
I prefer either Pecunix or GoldMoney. For more info on digital gold currencies in general, see the Wikipedia article.
we really need to be serious - we are 100 years too late already. we need to take action, and have fun doing it. the courts need to be jammed with license resistors that have winning arguments, the system needs to be taxed so the clueless feel some more taxes (better sooner than later), people need to stop funding it all with their monies, people need to learn how to get out of it all, new local economies need to be created, the system needs to get tied up with it's own ropes by people that are taking a stand for freedom ... it's better to help collapse the corrupt system under it's own weight now, while there is (possibly) time, rather than to wait for God or Jesus to save us after there is no chance.
#2. To: RidinShotgun, 2db, resistors (#1)
Agreed. We need to stop marking off the time lapse to doom and start gumming up the system. It would be good if people could share some specific ideas on how to start that ball rolling.
#3. To: lodwick, 2cb (#2)
#4. To: lodwick (#2)
To me, the system is gummed-up and failing under its own incompetence.
#5. To: 2cb (#0)
But things got duller than the weather 'till Donna Wood took charge
She went to the piano, and took her D (for Donna)
putting it to music in a major key
#6. To: RidinShotgun (#4)
Sorry, but I don't believe any one man could pull our butts out of this morass even if the deliberately screwed up voting system wasn't designed and implemented to prevent the election of such a man. I gave up on that idea when Buchanan came in with 4% of the vote.
#7. To: RidinShotgun (#4)
The system has US stuck in their gum and it only appears incompetent while advancing pretty much according to plan. If you ask me, their credible deniability is starting to wear thin.
#8. To: lizza76 (#6)
#9. To: RidinShotgun (#1)
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#10. To: lodwick (#7)
The cynic in me has to agree, while the optimist (Quixotic[?]) hopes, and is working, for a miracle.
#11. To: who knows what evil (#9)
We ceratinly need to raise hell aboout our rigged elections.
#12. To: RidinShotgun (#11)
I know this is an unpopular attitude, but it seems to me that if you don't like something, yet you keep participating in it, you're gonna keep getting whatever the hell the overseers want you to have ... in this case, crooked politicians.
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#13. To: who knows what evil (#12)
pass along stories of rigged elections, and to encourage people to use a paper ballot.
#14. To: RidinShotgun, 2cb, lodwick, ALL (#1)
we really need to be serious - we are 100 years too late already. we need to take action, and have fun doing it. the courts need to be jammed with license resistors that have winning arguments, the system needs to be taxed so the clueless feel some more taxes (better sooner than later), people need to stop funding it all with their monies, people need to learn how to get out of it all, new local economies need to be created, the system needs to get tied up with it's own ropes by people that are taking a stand for freedom ... it's better to help collapse the corrupt system under it's own weight now, while there is (possibly) time, rather than to wait for God or Jesus to save us after there is no chance.
Agreed. We need to stop marking off the time lapse to doom and start gumming up the system. It would be good if people could share some specific ideas on how to start that ball rolling.
1. Marriage licenses. If you're NOT married yet but are planning on getting married in the future - DON'T get a ML. See how simple this is? IF you get a ML, you have just invited a "3rd party into your marriage - the StateInc.
2. Business license. If you're starting a business, DON'T get a BL. If you do all you're doing is volunteering to become a tax collector for the StateInc, not to mention creating a big headache of "paperwork hassles" for yourself to fill out every so often. How do you conduct your "business"? Through private contract with INDIVIDUALS only. I have a friend that started a restaurant without a BL. Down the road the state comptroller sent him a notice that he owed "xxx" in sales tax he had failed to report. He notified them that since he had not registered with them (ie, gotten a BL) he didn't charge nor collect sales tax. They responded by filling one out for him!!! He responded by initiating a Federal lawsuit against them for forging an official document and fraud. They responded by promptly dropping the matter and he never heard from them again.
3. Drivers license. A little trickier, this one is practically guaranteed to land you in front of a court. (That IS the idea though right - tie up the courts with things like this?) Again just DON'T get one. IF you already HAVE one (and damned near everybody falls into this category), you'll need to rescind it. I just posted an article describing how a guy in NM did this...
Here in our small town, several of us have been edging our way away from the Federal Reserve Note scam, and endeavoring to use the REAL currency our government mints every work day - gold and (especially) silver coin. Our local grocer now takes them as do several other businesses (including mine). We offer an "incentive" to people to use silver. For instance, if I charge say $40/hr for my services I also give the option of paying with 2 ozs of silver. They can purchase the silver from the grocer for $18/oz. This gives them a "break" over my hourly rate. I can then sell the silver to the grocer (or use it to purchase groceries) at a slightly lower rate than he sells it at, BUT still at a considerably higher rate than spot. Yes, there is some "give and take" involved for all parties involved; BUT all parties are benefiting from actually having in their possession something tangible which will help them preserve their purchasing power when the real crunch hits... We are working towards getting more people and businesses involved. We are also encouraging more "buy it local" on everything from hardware to food as opposed to going the 30 mile trip to the nearest WallyWorld...
The above paragraph is a good start. But the REAL deal is to get out of the Social(ist) Security System/ponzy scheme/fraud. This one seemingly little innocent thing is what binds you to them in the chains of slavery. It is what ties you to their income tax scheme/fraud. The SS fraud could probably be challenged in court (as a way out of it) using the argument of performance of contract - ie make them prove that the purchasing power of the "dollars" returned to you later on will be equal to what you "put in" during your "working years". BUT, there are other ways. One is their OWN form SS521 - removal of your SS application. This dis-attaches you from their number (once a number is assigned and even 1¢ is paid in on that "account" it is never rescinded from the system), which effectively removes you from the system. Another (harder but perhaps better) way is to construct a notice to them that you no longer wish to participate, along with your reasons (mark of the Beast is a good one), and demand out. This must be mailed via registered return receipt requested to quite a few parties. I do know this method works, as opposed to the other methods. For instance, the SS521 must be approved by them...
Steven Wright
#15. To: 2cb (#0)
shouldn't this be a place where there is information on how to actively engage in resistance, both offensive and defensive?
#16. To: who knows what evil, RidinShotgun (#9)
We ceratinly need to raise hell aboout our rigged elections.
#17. To: innieway (#14)
#18. To: farmfriend (#16)
There was legislation here in CA that would have required ID to vote. Couldn't get anyone interested in it. Not even the Grange when they had policy on it. Information came from me and the PTB think I'm a threat. NO one cares.
#19. To: RidinShotgun (#18)
#20. To: farmfriend (#19)
#21. To: RidinShotgun (#20)
#22. To: RidinShotgun, farm friend, all (#20)
When you put up a thread talking about it and no one even looks at the thread...that tells me people are not interested. You put up an article and you'll get a bunch of people pounding their keyboard but not one will pick up a phone and call their representative.
#23. To: farmfriend (#21)
#24. To: RidinShotgun (#23)
#25. To: lodwick (#22)
#26. To: farmfriend (#24)
Just because I had success doesn't mean the bills passed.
#27. To: lodwick (#22)
The reps are going to listen to those corporations and organizations that fund them - they could care less what the people of a state or a country wish or want.
#28. To: RidinShotgun (#26)
I'm sorry, your definition of success and mine don't jive.
#29. To: farmfriend (#27)
the recent immigration bills
#30. To: farmfriend (#28)
#31. To: RidinShotgun (#29)
Do you think the folks who pushed for amnesty will just fold their tents and go home now? Or do they maybe have an even more aggregious "solution" up their sleeves?
#32. To: farmfriend (#15)
I think most forum posters fall into the keyboard warrior catagory.
I think I'm the only one on this forum that tracks legislation. ... No one cares.
The idea was not only to post articles like is done here but to couple that with current legislation and plans to fight it.
Steven Wright
#33. To: lodwick (#22)
Both the TX house and senate overwhelmingly voted to put a two year hold on the TransTexas Corridor debacle so that they could try and find out what TxDOT was up to, gov helmethead immediately vetoed the measure. 90% of the public, and 100% of the affected property owners, and everyone with a brain is against this abomination.
Steven Wright
#34. To: innieway (#32)
That's why I maintain that the BEST way we have left at our disposal to "fight" is to simply quit playing the game. They've twisted it to become THEIR game, and THEY'VE made the rules, and continue to change the rules all the time to suit their needs. Sure, we MAY make some progress by "calling our representatives" and so on, BUT that is slow and shaky at best.
#35. To: noone222 (#34)
Couldn't we just shoot one of em every now and then
Steven Wright
#36. To: innieway, RidinShotgun, 2cb, lodwick, ALL (#14)
Here in our small town, several of us have been edging our way away from the Federal Reserve Note scam, and endeavoring to use the REAL currency our government mints every work day - gold and (especially) silver coin.
#37. To: RidinShotgun, farmfriend, innieway, all (#30)
That doesn't mean the final desired result hasn't been pre- arranged behind closed doors, or that the result can't be overturned by a politically motivated judge if it accidentally turns out wrong.
#38. To: 2cb (#0)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#39. To: RidinShotgun (#10)
The cynic in me says equal media coverage for Ron Paul....be a true miracle
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#40. To: IndieTX (#39)
[Equal and true MSM coverage of Ron Paul will never happen. If it does, that means he's been corrupted. That's how controlled the MSM is.]
#41. To: lodwick (#37)
Signing statements have proved most useful also...
#42. To: SkyRat (#36)
Sorry to drop in but I think you'll find this interesting. E-Gold
#43. To: RidinShotgun (#41)
#44. To: lodwick (#43)
#45. To: RidinShotgun (#42)
Why are you apologising?
#46. To: SkyRat (#45)
well, this is my first post on this board and just dropping in and posting to a website comes close to spamming.
#47. To: SkyRat, Arete, Elliott Jackalope, DeaconBenjamin, Axenolith, mirage, imawit, orangedog, Tauzero, sourcery, purpleman (#45)
#48. To: christine (#47)
 | Government Warning: The Attorney General has determined that Federal Regulation may be hazardous to your health |
#49. To: christine (#47)
If you don't have possession of your gold, the Feds can shut them down and you'll be out of luck. They're already going after at least one of these online "gold money" guys. I don't like anything that I can't get a hold of or that the Feds can just take away by shutting down the vendor and screwing the customer. I even hold actual stock certificates when I can. Best thing about holding physical is that, even if someone knows you have it, you 'went to Vegas' and 'lost big' - all gone!
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
#50. To: christine, Arete, orangedog (#47)
Thanks a lot ^-^ However, I have to admit that, while I'm new at 4, I know some of you guys. Here check this link: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1043809/ posts?q=1&;page=51 post 71 Ive been following Market WrapUp threads from FR to LP to 4um.
au contraire! we're glad you've joined us..welcome to 4. ;)
#51. To: sourcery, RidinShotgun (#48)
Aye, those are good As I said, its not a single service.
I prefer either Pecunix or GoldMoney.
#52. To: christine (#47)
It won't be there when you most need it. Otherwise, I agree with sourcery. In the long run, the most important capital you have is what's between your ears, and in your breast.
regarding E-Gold..
Let's make our music match the composer's joyful mood, while we look like a sharp quartet.
#53. To: SkyRat (#50)
ah ha ;)
Ive been following Market WrapUp threads from FR to LP to 4um.
#54. To: farmfriend (#15)
I'm not even that anymore. After my personal experiences and what Red Beckman told me about "spreading the record" for the 9th circuit proving that the 16th amendment was never ratified (He pointed out that I shouldn't say "not PROPERLY ratified" but rather, I should say "not ratified" period) well, I'm fairly certain that we won't beat them in their courts. And as Red also said, there's a race to see which comes first-the collapse of the economy or the grabbing of the guns. The future will be determined by which comes first.
I think most forum posters fall into the keyboard warrior category.
#55. To: mirage (#49)
bling ping
Best thing about holding physical is that, even if someone knows you have it, you 'went to Vegas' and 'lost big' - all gone!
#56. To: SkyRat (#45)
There should be MORE first posts. :<) My comment about losing communications and the internet has more to do with power black outs and outages than the deliberate take down of internet access. All currencies, including gold and silver, are backed by labor and production, without which PMs would still be in the ground, so a fiat paper currency that's openly and directly backed by the labor and production of the people who trade with it is just as functional, if not moreso, than currencies that are commodities such as PMs. IMO, its the fluctuating value of gold and silver on the market that makes them unstable as a currency, whether in their cold hard physical state or as markers. And call me old fashioned, but I'm still a firm believer that a bird in the hand is worth more than a booted up cyber bird that can be traded for goods and services with no accountability for the vendors. I heard a lady complaining the other day about having purchased a product online that turned out to be a complete disaster and she was informed by a talk show lawyer that she has almost no legal means of recouping her losses without spending more in the attempt than she would win. IF she won. If a company is crooked, it doesn't matter whether you pay by pay pal or send egold ... to them, you're just another interstate/global customer with no recourse. I'm sure we've all heard horror stories about rip offs on Ebay. A local company depending on local customers, OTOH, couldn't survive the negative image. Support local merchants and you support your own lifeline.
#57. To: RidinShotgun (#13)
But this paper ballot issue is where you get the citizens involved. Involved by following with vehicles the cars that take the ballot boxes to counting headquarters. There, you follow, with cam corders, of course, the boxes as the trunks are opened and escorted to wherever they're taken. Then, you have count observers there watching everything, including the piles. In times past, there were people from each party who would do the counting--because they were bound and determined to make sure 'their' guy wasn't screwed out of a vote or two. The whole process from beginning to end needs to be observed and followed. Work with the State's Secretary of State to find out what the laws are all about. This office will even put on forums to teach about being poll observers, etc. I know this because I did it. And another thing, both parties have worked diligently together in Congress to assure that only someone from each of those parties make it. Occasionally an independent will make it, but count the numbers and see how many do.....it is because the election laws have been rigged their way. Other parties spend most of their contributions with lawyers trying to get recognized in each state, while the other two have long been recognized and don't have this problem. Paper ballots are the only sure way to assure clean elections--and that is only good if you have the poll observers and the counting room observers, and some mathematicians or calculators that can add and not be afraid to challenge the PTB.
#58. To: farmfriend (#28)
That was my experience, too.....back when our area wanted to succeed from the liberal county we were in, there was no state law to cover such. So off to Helena a bunch of us went. Including the county officials and their hacks on our dime, in our vehicles and on our gas.....we all had to pay our own way and our own gas, and our own meals. My husband and I cornered Mr. Tax and Spend in the elevator by ourselves--very much a government man. We convinced Tom to at least give us, the people, the right to vote our own destiny--even if he personally would vote against doing so were he in our area. And Tom Towe did that. And after we got that right, our county representatives started singing a new song--we really weren't the bastard children they made us out to be! Amazing.......cause they had the deck stacked against us. But we preservered and Montana now has a state law regarding withdrawal from counties and entering new counties! And what is so funny about the whole thing: none of us really wanted to go to a new county. Instead of 20 miles from the county seat/courthouse, the new county's seat was 60 something miles away. We we have been the outter most area of that county, and we were smart enough to realize that county facilities for us would be near zip or zilch.
#59. To: christine (#53)
I think I've found my new favorite comedian:
The secret of contentment is knowing how to enjoy what you have, and to be able to lose all desire for things beyond your reach. Lin Yutang
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --- William Casey, Director CIA (Quote from internal staff meeting notes 1981)
#60. To: HOUNDDAWG (#54)
The next civil/revolutionary war will be over water and/or property.
there's a race to see which comes first-the collapse of the economy or the grabbing of the guns.
#61. To: rowdee (#57)
Okay, so say you've got witnesses to vote fraud. Then what? http://www.vot efraud.org/every_american_needs_to_study.htm .... election fraud against Presidential Candidate Patrick J. Buchanan, the people of Iowa, and the people of the USA during the Iowa Presidential Caucus in 1996. This brazen fraud by the five Big TV Networks, their creature Voter News Service, and the Republican Party headquarters of Iowa -- was uncovered through eye-witness investigation -- on the spot -- by the author of this article and his team in Dubuque Iowa on February 12, 1996 in Dubuque, Iowa. Other eye-witnesses included business men Christopher Schaper and Douglas Zeitz, local residents and local "Buchanan for President" co-ordinators Sam and Lois Pusateri, at least one of their local activists who were eye-witnesses in each classroom where the Iowa Caucus paper ballots for that respective neighborhood precinct were manually counted in open view of all participants. And then Republican party chairman of Dubuque County Rod Blum, a successful local businessman who ran a perfectly clean caucus election. -- In Dubuque, Iowa we were able to know the actual count because neighbors voted in 41 classrooms and then the paper ballots were immediately counted IN PUBLIC. We were then able to see, the next morning, how the 5 Big TV Networks through Voter News Service and AP wire service fraudulently altered the actual vote count. AP reported this fraudulent "result" to the Big Daily Papers and the rest of the "mainstream" media -- all of which media outlets uncritically reported the altered results. In this way we were able to prove the election fraud in Dubuque, County Iowa in the 1996 Presidential Caucus. The same mechanism is in operation in 99% of the counties in the USA -- but there is no chance at all of detecting election fraud because of the unconstitutional delegation to about 4 private companies (Diebold, Sequoia, Hart, and Election Systems & Software, often abbreviated ES & S) by the Republican-Democratic controlled Boards of Election. The local boards of election illegally use the local police force to prevent citizen participation in counting the votes on the ballots cast at that neighborhood precinct,and then to snatch the ballots away from the neighborhood voters. Then the ballots are taken downtown where, again protected by police power, they are "counted" IN SECRET
Paper ballots are the only sure way to assure clean elections--and that is only good if you have the poll observers and the counting room observers, and some mathematicians or calculators that can add and not be afraid to challenge the PTB.
#62. To: SkyRat (#50)
lol. the good ole days. wardaddy and nopardons were high calibre asshats. I think that thread was one of the very few times I lost my temper.
#63. To: SkyRat (#50)
It's been a long journey, hasn't it?
Ive been following Market WrapUp threads from FR to LP to 4um.
#64. To: Arete (#63)
kudos to you Richard for keeping it going. I always feel like periodic thanks are in order. You've been at it for what, 6 years now? I can remember when you took it over from rohry. The poster I remember most from back then is David. I used to print out his posts and study them.
#65. To: Soren (#64)
I don't think that it has been quite that long. Sure has been interesting and a real education watching the government and monetary authorities (central bankers) taking over greater and greater control over the economy, the media, the legal system and our society in general - and all of it without the average citizen being given a voice. Shocking.
You've been at it for what, 6 years now?
#66. To: RidinShotgun (#61)
What is meant by 'citizen participation' in vote counting? Unless they are hired by the board of elections to sit and count ballots, you're not allowed to touch them. That in no way negates your counting as they are called out. THey cannot keep you from being close to observe. And you get your ducks lined up at the STate Secy of States office first, so you know the friggin laws. The local laws have to comply with state laws which in turn are governed, in many respects by fed laws. And you get acquainted with all sorts of reports and news service people. You have cell phones.....you have videos......you record all--even if a cop badmouths you to stand back. Y'all wanted lists of actions that can be done. Also include running for office yourself. Armed revolution isn't gonna happen anytime soon here. It would have to get a lot worse first. IMO, of course.
#67. To: rowdee, RidinShotgun (#66)
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
#68. To: ghostdogtxn (#67)
Don't worry, when things do get worse, the government will just break-out their list of scapegoats to blame the problems on. Muslims, Chinese, French, Iranians and other evil-does or every color and stripe. No way will our ruling class elite ever take responsiblity for the harm they themselves are doing.
#69. To: SkyRat (#50)
Oh snap! That was an oldie.
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price." Vir Cotto, Babylon 5
#70. To: rowdee (#66)
You're talking about how to prevent cheating and how to catch cheaters. That doesn't even matter because we all know its done because they have been caught doing it over and over again, as shown in the snip I posted above about Buchanan. My question was ... what then? How is it resolved? Who's head rolls? Who wins? Fact is, a couple weeks after we've been "given" another new winner, everybody just shrugs it off again and says better luck next time. You'd almost get the impression that we're a bunch of hapless frenchies from watching the collective gallic shrug after each stolen election. Hell, even the Mexicans did a better job of protesting their stolen election than americans have ever done.
#71. To: RidinShotgun (#70)
Are you wanting a course in what it takes to get americans to get off their dead asses and devote some time to something besides Oprah, and the latest Pistons scores, or the size of Michael Jordan's shoes? Or who the latest dog fighter is? Apathy 101 or something like that? Generally, IMO, it takes someone's own nest getting shit in before they think about doing something about it.
#72. To: rowdee (#71)
Those someones you mention may or may not have noticed between innings that they don't actually own a nest, or that paper mortgages have been even more successful than paper ballots in sweeping away all their shit.
Generally, IMO, it takes someone's own nest getting shit in before they think about doing something about it.
#73. To: christine (#47)
As one that's living "Life Without A Number", I really don't want a "number" such as an e-gold account number. I also would think that e-gold could be "audited" or whatever. Just because one member can't see account info for another member doesn't mean the info is obscure. I'm sure a little "pressure" from the right alphabet agency would yield a few "breaches of security". One thing I've learned - ANY account can be seized. I look at it like "if I have physical possession of it, then I KNOW I have it". Besides, there's a certain satisfaction to having someone actually pay you for something by dropping silver coin in your hand; and likewise a certain satisfaction to paying for something by dropping that silver in their hand.
ping to SkyRat's post regarding E-Gold..your opinions please?
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright
#74. To: SkyRat, RidinShotgun, Lodwick, Christine, (#45) (Edited)
Let me first say welcome to 4! Sometimes there are "disadvantages" which are totally hidden. Some years ago I had a business, and about a third of my customers wanted to pay with a credit card. I didn't have the means of processing credit cards (and didn't really care to go there anyhow), so I opened a PayPal account to be able to take credit card payments. That was the moment of "waking me up" to the financial scam perpetrated upon us. This "awakening" is what caused me to decide to close all "accounts" that I had. But closing my PayPal account proved quite difficult. There was still $5 left in my PayPal account, and I didn't have a bank account for it to be transferred to. (Yes, an oversight on my part, but I was more concerned with where the "bigger money" was at) Anyhow, upon contacting PayPal on the phone (again) I was told that they could not close the account with funds still in there, and that it was "against their policy to mail the funds". I told them they could KEEP the $5, I just wanted my account closed. Of course, that "wasn't an option either". I was told the only thing I could do was open another bank account to link my PayPal account to, or just not have any PayPal activity for 2 years; after which it would "automatically close from lack of activity". I told them I had another "option", and asked for the information of their legal firm (who to contact, address, etc_ - and told them that they could expect to have proceedings/lawsuit on his desk shortly. (As an aside, anytime you're on the phone with some outfit like this you always get the message "this conversation may be recorded...) I realise that there are disadvantages. And I can understand your feelings. Trust is hard to get, especialy if money is involved.
Later on (after having quit the business) I made a purchase for a friend on ebay, and used the e-check option to pay for the purchase. He was going to deposit the money in my account the next day for the purchase, and I didn't see it as a problem as it always took PayPal several days to do e-checks. He deposited the funds, but I got an email from PayPal a couple of days later claiming "insufficient funds". So I called my bank to find out how much was in my account, and there was plenty to have covered the e-check! So I contacted PayPal on the phone (which was in itself a "project" just to get a phone number to contact them) to find out what happened. That was a very enlightening conversation! I found out from them that ALL PROCEEDS that go to PayPal FIRST go to the FEDERAL RESERVE, which holds the funds for a couple of days, and THEN releases them to PayPal!!! Then upon PayPal receiving them, they forward them immediately on to the recipient! What had happened was that as soon as I clicked the "pay with e-check button", PayPal tried to withdraw the funds from my account within an hour (and that's always the case).
THINK ABOUT THIS. The deplorable FR draws some interest on every dime that goes through PayPal! I've had people tell me "if you use a credit card, it's instantaneous". But upon further questioning those folks I've found out that they used their credit card to put funds into PayPal (which took several days), and IF they have the funds in their PayPal account, THAT goes to the recipient immediately. If not, the process "takes longer".
Are you absolutely positive e-gold, or any other "online payment/banking/whatever service" doesn't work the same way???
Later that day I got a call from the PayPal legal team. They wanted my mailing address, told me a check for $5 would be in the mail that afternoon, and my account was now closed...
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright
#75. To: RidinShotgun (#56)
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Gold and silver are backed up by GOD. He is the one that created them, He is the One that told us to use them as our currency - in fact He mandated it in His Law (See Leviticus 19:36, and Deuteronomy 25:13 - the "just weights and measures" law). The reason gold and silver are considered "just weights and measures" are because their "value" does NOT fluctuate". The common misconception that they DO has been injected into our brains from years of "conditioning" on the part of the PTB. Back in the early '60s, (when we had Silver Certificates, and you could take a $1 "paper" certificate to the bank and have them give you a $1 silver coin for it) you could take either the silver coin or the paper dollar to the gas station and buy 4 gallons of gas. Now, you take the paper dollar to the gas station and you get about a third of a gallon of gas with it; but if you sell a 1oz silver dollar for spot price (since the gas station probably won't take it) and take that to the gas station, you can still get 4 gallons of gas. Gas hasn't gotten any more "expensive" over the last 45 years, the dollar has devalued. That's the scam - we're so used to thinking of the "price" of things relative to the dollar, when in fact the "price" of things change very little relative to the value of the dollar. It's the damned Federal Reserve Note that fluctuates!!! The reason gold and silver would (and used to) work as real money (or at the very least paper backed by gold and silver) is because there is only x amount of it. It cannot be "created out of thin air" like the fiat currencies of the world. If we had stuck to the Scriptural mandate of gold and silver as our "money", we wouldn't be seeing the financial problems we see today. When the US was on a "gold standard" we were the world's #1 creditor nation - today (since getting away from the gold and silver standard) we are the world's #1 debtor nation. How the world's richest nation in terms of natural resources and ingenuity could have gone from one extreme to the other in less than 80 years is appalling. Consider it "punishment" for failure to keep God's laws...
All currencies, including gold and silver, are backed by labor and production, without which PMs would still be in the ground, so a fiat paper currency that's openly and directly backed by the labor and production of the people who trade with it is just as functional, if not moreso, than currencies that are commodities such as PMs. IMO, its the fluctuating value of gold and silver on the market that makes them unstable as a currency, whether in their cold hard physical state or as markers.
99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright
#76. To: RidinShotgun (#72)
So start a list of how we break the cycle of apathy.......how do you get people to become interested in learning the truth or the facts?
#77. To: innieway (#75)
The reason gold and silver are considered "just weights and measures" are because their "value" does NOT fluctuate". The common misconception that they DO has been injected into our brains from years of "conditioning" on the part of the PTB. Yes, of course God created gold and silver, just as he created ALL of the resources necessary for our survival. But God isn't a capitalist. He didn't turn his creations into commodities for the profit of the few, men did that, some of them purporting to be working under the banner of God. Lesser men accepted it that way and actually promoted it because men are, generally speaking, fools of the first water.
Gold and silver are backed up by GOD. He is the one that created them, He is the One that told us to use them as our currency - in fact He mandated it in His Law (See Leviticus 19:36, and Deuteronomy 25:13 - the "just weights and measures" law).
#78. To: rowdee (#76)
There is no list that I'm aware of. Looks to me like most folks simply have to learn the hard way. But after you've developed a solid history of telling the ugly truth and have been laughed at and ridiculed only to have those things prove out to be true, its easier to make a list of the number of people who simply hate being told "told you so". Most of the time they try to exonerate their previous ignorance by blaming the truth teller for everything that went wrong.
So start a list of how we break the cycle of apathy.......how do you get people to become interested in learning the truth or the facts?
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