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Title: Does the fiery spirit of 1776 still burn?
Source:
St. Petersburg Times
URL Source: http://www.sptimes.com/News/070401/ ... ns/Does_the_fiery_spirit.shtml
Published: Jul 4, 2001
Author: Howard Troxler
Post Date: 2008-07-04 14:34:47 by X-15
Keywords: None
Views: 731
Comments: 93
Today we celebrate our right to overthrow the government. There is no pussyfooting around this fact. It is the central meaning of Independence Day. Today's firecrackers are reminders of the bloody war we were willing to fight against the British to win freedom. Bang. We can try to rename today's holiday the more innocuous "Fourth of July." We can outlaw firecrackers on the grounds of nuisance and fire hazard and you'll-put-somebody's-eye-out. But so far nobody has been able to rewrite the Declaration of Independence itself, and the words of that document are crystal clear. Today is a spiritual, passionate, angry, violent holiday for a modern society that is squeamish about every one of those adjectives. If you get a chance today, you should read the actual words of the Declaration. Read the whole thing. It's even better out loud. Imagine you are really fed up while you're reading it. When you get to the list of abuses by King George III, you will get angrier and angrier. I still do. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Endowed by their Creator! Were the Framers deftly sidestepping the word "God," or in their day did they simply assume that one word was synonymous with the other? Either way is fine -- the point is that we have inherent rights that can never be taken away. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. There's the Big Idea. Government gets its authority from the consent of the people. It is one of the most important political things anybody ever said, except maybe for the next sentence . . . That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government... And that is the gist of it. The people give the government its power. If the government becomes tyrannical, the people have the right to cast it off. This does not mean that the Framers intended us to start a revolution every time we got ticked off. It does not bestow any moral authority on kooks and extremists. In fact, Jefferson and his editors stressed just the opposite: government should not be changed for "light and transient causes." But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Legally speaking, do you know how much weight the Declaration of Independence carries today? None. Zippo. The Constitution is the sole basis of our government. Yet the Constitution would not have been possible without the Declaration -- it is the "new Guard." An opinion survey this week said 66 percent of us do not believe Americans would be as willing to call for a revolution today as they were 225 years ago. But are we really so puny? We have glorified the Revolution over the past two and a quarter centuries. The truth is it was a controversial and divisive time. A lot of colonists wanted the King to win. They were willing to live under tyranny for a little extra security. Do you think they magically grew a better crop of human beings in the 1700s? Or did Americans of that era rise to the occasion, just as they did in a Civil War, in a terrible Depression, in two 20th-century wars against global evil? In our modern life we are fat and happy and safe and selfish. The question for today is whether in that comfort and selfishness, an essential American idea has been extinguished, or is just sleeping. 
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#1. To: X-15 (#0)
When fat and happy becomes starving and dispossessed ... we'll wake up in the middle of a nightmare in progress.
Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces. De La Boétie
outstanding! thanks for this post, X.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
The last embers died in 1865.
The last embers died in 1865. Sir, I shall consume one, no two, more Grain Belt Premiums before I (maybe) come back and address this post! ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
This country has been involved in two major wars in its own interest. The first one, The Revolutionary War, Americans won. The second one, The Civil War, Americans lost. The Civil War was the dying gasp of Americans wanting to be free. Since 1865, Americans have not had the stomach nor the will to defy this government. One foreign war after another has been our fate.
The first one, The Revolutionary War, Americans won. The second one, The Civil War, Americans lost. The Civil War was the dying gasp of Americans wanting to be free. Since 1865, Americans have not had the stomach nor the will to defy this government. One foreign war after another has been our fate. All of that being said, would you not agree with me that there are at least 1,000,000 Americans left willing to wage and win a last minute overthrow of the illegal shadow government. Especially if the majority of military families side with America? ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
NO.... Something is lacking. There is NO leader, no cohesion, no glue. Ron Paul decided he was not the man.
Something is lacking. There is NO leader, no cohesion, no glue. Ron Paul decided he was not the man. Ron Paul was never the man to say "Now, is the time!". Every American of conscience must be prepared to be the insurgent. This isn't about 1 guy anymore, nor was it ever IMO. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Should be holding a wake....wake: a watch held over the body of a dead person prior to burial and sometimes accompanied by festivity
Recall the difference between the Revolutionary times and now. At that time there were untold men that stepped forward to lead, to write, to orate, and to fight. We have no one, not a person that dares raise their head to lead. ALL movements, good or bad MUST have a leader. It is not about one man, was not in 1776, it was many men but Washington was chosen to lead and he did. Ron Paul did us a disservice by NOT bringing out someone with fire in their belly to lead, someone that shared his views. We have nothing.
At that time there were untold men that stepped forward to lead, to write, to orate, and to fight. We have no one, not a person that dares raise their head to lead. ALL movements, good or bad MUST have a leader. It is not about one man, was not in 1776, it was many men but Washington was chosen to lead and he did. Ron Paul did us a disservice by NOT bringing out someone with fire in their belly to lead, someone that shared his views. We have nothing. I have something. I hope you still have something. I hope at least 1 million others have something. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Can't blame Ron Paul for the apathy of the GDP
Mass movement is not possible in this country. This security thing being jammed down our throats is not for our security, it is for the security of the government, the status quo, all else is BS. The ruling elite can manufacture a president in less than a year, from nothing, and the people buy it. Let one man stand up and ask this government be overthrown and he will be in prison or worse. Thats why we have NO ONE.
Thats why the pay Rush $400 million and Hanniety $200 million
Paul in his Trotsky memo made it quite clear that he had no stomach for a fight outside of the two party system.. That being his decision, there was no further need to support him. Only a fool would ever consider reform from "within the system".
I don't see the Continental Army of 2008 walking up to a firing line. That man will stand up and do something, not say something. IMO Who knows, maybe you are that that man? Maybe it's someone else. That man will know. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
That being his decision, there was no further need to support him. Only a fool would ever consider reform from "within the system". Can't disagree there. We had an actuarial leading a bloody charge. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
We will have chaos and insurrection but it will not be for a better system.
If Obama gets in (and I have my doubts), I'm convinced the nation will break down by racial lines and a white nationalist party will emerge. Not from the current collection of misfits in the various nationalist movements, but a new, young leadership will step forward that places America and heritage first. RP won't be part of what I envision; he remains a Republican and I don't think he'd agree with whites joining together.
My hero was Dr. Joseph Warren. He orated, wrote and agitated the people to rise up and they did, on opening day he took up his musket and died as a Private fighting for the cause he believed in. The Brits shot him down and hid his body. We have no one.
Correct. Total agreement. After the Trotsky memo there was nothing to be expected from Paul.
The Brits shot him down and hid his body. And what was the final result of what ensued? ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
If Paul elected to run as a independent he would of got zero coverage over the past year...by running within the system he has reached millions ....and he has not given up Something Big is Going On The following statement is written by Congressman Paul about the pending financial disaster. He will introduce this statement as a special order and insert it into the Congressional Record next week. Fortunately, we have the opportunity to debut it first on the Campaign for Liberty blog. It reads as follows: I have, for the past 35 years, expressed my grave concern for the future of America. The course we have taken over the past century has threatened our liberties, security and prosperity. In spite of these long-held concerns, I have days—growing more frequent all the time—when I’m convinced the time is now upon us that some Big Events are about to occur. These fast-approaching events will not go unnoticed. They will affect all of us. They will not be limited to just some areas of our country. The world economy and political system will share in the chaos about to be unleashed. Though the world has long suffered from the senselessness of wars that should have been avoided, my greatest fear is that the course on which we find ourselves will bring even greater conflict and economic suffering to the innocent people of the world—unless we quickly change our ways. America, with her traditions of free markets and property rights, led the way toward great wealth and progress throughout the world as well as at home. Since we have lost our confidence in the principles of liberty, self reliance, hard work and frugality, and instead took on empire building, financed through inflation and debt, all this has changed. This is indeed frightening and an historic event. The problem we face is not new in history. Authoritarianism has been around a long time. For centuries, inflation and debt have been used by tyrants to hold power, promote aggression, and provide “bread and circuses” for the people. The notion that a country can afford “guns and butter” with no significant penalty existed even before the 1960s when it became a popular slogan. It was then, though, we were told the Vietnam War and a massive expansion of the welfare state were not problems. The seventies proved that assumption wrong. Today things are different from even ancient times or the 1970s. There is something to the argument that we are now a global economy. The world has more people and is more integrated due to modern technology, communications, and travel. If modern technology had been used to promote the ideas of liberty, free markets, sound money and trade, it would have ushered in a new golden age—a globalism we could accept. Instead, the wealth and freedom we now enjoy are shrinking and rest upon a fragile philosophic infrastructure. It is not unlike the levies and bridges in our own country that our system of war and welfare has caused us to ignore. I’m fearful that my concerns have been legitimate and may even be worse than I first thought. They are now at our doorstep. Time is short for making a course correction before this grand experiment in liberty goes into deep hibernation. There are reasons to believe this coming crisis is different and bigger than the world has ever experienced. Instead of using globalism in a positive fashion, it’s been used to globalize all of the mistakes of the politicians, bureaucrats and central bankers. Being an unchallenged sole superpower was never accepted by us with a sense of humility and respect. Our arrogance and aggressiveness have been used to promote a world empire backed by the most powerful army of history. This type of globalist intervention creates problems for all citizens of the world and fails to contribute to the well-being of the world’s populations. Just think how our personal liberties have been trashed here at home in the last decade. The financial crisis, still in its early stages, is apparent to everyone: gasoline prices over $4 a gallon; skyrocketing education and medical-care costs; the collapse of the housing bubble; the bursting of the NASDAQ bubble; stockmarkets plunging; unemployment rising;, massive underemployment; excessive government debt; and unmanageable personal debt. Little doubt exists as to whether we’ll get stagflation. The question that will soon be asked is: When will the stagflation become an inflationary depression? There are various reasons that the world economy has been globalized and the problems we face are worldwide. We cannot understand what we’re facing without understanding fiat money and the long-developing dollar bubble. There were several stages. From the inception of the Federal Reserve System in 1913 to 1933, the Central Bank established itself as the official dollar manager. By 1933, Americans could no longer own gold, thus removing restraint on the Federal Reserve to inflate for war and welfare. By 1945, further restraints were removed by creating the Bretton-Woods Monetary System making the dollar the reserve currency of the world. This system lasted up until 1971. During the period between 1945 and 1971, some restraints on the Fed remained in place. Foreigners, but not Americans, could convert dollars to gold at $35 an ounce. Due to the excessive dollars being created, that system came to an end in 1971. It’s the post Bretton-Woods system that was responsible for globalizing inflation and markets and for generating a gigantic worldwide dollar bubble. That bubble is now bursting, and we’re seeing what it’s like to suffer the consequences of the many previous economic errors. Ironically in these past 35 years, we have benefited from this very flawed system. Because the world accepted dollars as if they were gold, we only had to counterfeit more dollars, spend them overseas (indirectly encouraging our jobs to go overseas as well) and enjoy unearned prosperity. Those who took our dollars and gave us goods and services were only too anxious to loan those dollars back to us. This allowed us to export our inflation and delay the consequences we now are starting to see. But it was never destined to last, and now we have to pay the piper. Our huge foreign debt must be paid or liquidated. Our entitlements are coming due just as the world has become more reluctant to hold dollars. The consequence of that decision is price inflation in this country—and that’s what we are witnessing today. Already price inflation overseas is even higher than here at home as a consequence of foreign central bank’s willingness to monetize our debt. Printing dollars over long periods of time may not immediately push prices up–yet in time it always does. Now we’re seeing catch-up for past inflating of the monetary supply. As bad as it is today with $4 a gallon gasoline, this is just the beginning. It’s a gross distraction to hound away at “drill, drill, drill” as a solution to the dollar crisis and high gasoline prices. Its okay to let the market increase supplies and drill, but that issue is a gross distraction from the sins of deficits and Federal Reserve monetary shenanigans. This bubble is different and bigger for another reason. The central banks of the world secretly collude to centrally plan the world economy. I’m convinced that agreements among central banks to “monetize” U.S. debt these past 15 years have existed, although secretly and out of the reach of any oversight of anyone—especially the U.S. Congress that doesn’t care, or just flat doesn’t understand. As this “gift” to us comes to an end, our problems worsen. The central banks and the various governments are very powerful, but eventually the markets overwhelm when the people who get stuck holding the bag (of bad dollars) catch on and spend the dollars into the economy with emotional zeal, thus igniting inflationary fever. This time—since there are so many dollars and so many countries involved—the Fed has been able to “paper” over every approaching crisis for the past 15 years, especially with Alan Greenspan as Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, which has allowed the bubble to become history’s greatest. The mistakes made with excessive credit at artificially low rates are huge, and the market is demanding a correction. This involves excessive debt, misdirected investments, over-investments, and all the other problems caused by the government when spending the money they should never have had. Foreign militarism, welfare handouts and $80 trillion entitlement promises are all coming to an end. We don’t have the money or the wealth-creating capacity to catch up and care for all the needs that now exist because we rejected the market economy, sound money, self reliance and the principles of liberty. Since the correction of all this misallocation of resources is necessary and must come, one can look for some good that may come as this “Big Even” unfolds. There are two choices that people can make. The one choice that is unavailable to us is to limp along with the status quo and prop up the system with more debt, inflation and lies. That won’t happen. One of the two choices, and the one chosen so often by government in the past is that of rejecting the principles of liberty and resorting to even bigger and more authoritarian government. Some argue that giving dictatorial powers to the President, just as we have allowed him to run the American empire, is what we should do. That’s the great danger, and in this post-911 atmosphere, too many Americans are seeking safety over freedom. We have already lost too many of our personal liberties already. Real fear of economic collapse could prompt central planners to act to such a degree that the New Deal of the 30’s might look like Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence. The more the government is allowed to do in taking over and running the economy, the deeper the depression gets and the longer it lasts. That was the story of the 30ss and the early 40s, and the same mistakes are likely to be made again if we do not wake up. But the good news is that it need not be so bad if we do the right thing. I saw “Something Big” happening in the past 18 months on the campaign trail. I was encouraged that we are capable of waking up and doing the right thing. I have literally met thousands of high school and college kids who are quite willing to accept the challenge and responsibility of a free society and reject the cradle-to-grave welfare that is promised them by so many do-good politicians. If more hear the message of liberty, more will join in this effort. The failure of our foreign policy, welfare system, and monetary policies and virtually all government solutions are so readily apparent, it doesn’t take that much convincing. But the positive message of how freedom works and why it’s possible is what is urgently needed. One of the best parts of accepting self reliance in a free society is that true personal satisfaction with one’s own life can be achieved. This doesn’t happen when the government assumes the role of guardian, parent or provider, because it eliminates a sense of pride. But the real problem is the government can’t provide the safety and economic security that it claims. The so-called good that government claims it can deliver is always achieved at the expense of someone else’s freedom. It’s a failed system and the young people know it. Restoring a free society doesn’t eliminate the need to get our house in order and to pay for the extravagant spending. But the pain would not be long-lasting if we did the right things, and best of all the empire would have to end for financial reasons. Our wars would stop, the attack on civil liberties would cease, and prosperity would return. The choices are clear: it shouldn’t be difficult, but the big event now unfolding gives us a great opportunity to reverse the tide and resume the truly great American Revolution started in 1776. Opportunity knocks in spite of the urgency and the dangers we face. Let’s make “Something Big is Happening” be the discovery that freedom works and is popular and the big economic and political event we’re witnessing is a blessing in disguise. Read the comments www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/?p=115
Trotsky imo was a code for 'my campaign was overthrown'.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
That scuffle was called Bunker Hill but was actually Breeds hill. At the end of the day we had ourselves a Revolution.
I’m fearful that my concerns have been legitimate and may even be worse than I first thought. They are now at our doorstep. Time is short for making a course correction before this grand experiment in liberty goes into deep hibernation. There are reasons to believe this coming crisis is different and bigger than the world has ever experienced. Instead of using globalism in a positive fashion, it’s been used to globalize all of the mistakes of the politicians, bureaucrats and central bankers. Dr. Ron Paul did well and I commend him without reservation. He could have kept the campaign alive but he made his choices. I only can look back and say 'what if'. Instead of several million being awake and maybe a million that can be counted on, it could have grown to 30, 40 or 50 million plus. Who knows. Maybe 10 or 15 million awake. Whatever is past now is past. It's time to move forward and bring the globalists to their bloody knees. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Something BIG, yes indeed and Paul is not a part of it. Our history is replete for a hundred years of different messengers with nearly the same message as Paul. NONE ever were able to break the "two party" system.
That scuffle was called Bunker Hill but was actually Breeds hill. At the end of the day we had ourselves a Revolution. I do not lightly commit myself to such a dead end proposition, but in this I must say that it is HIGH TIME to remember the fallen and those that will fall.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Something transpired, what we will never know. For him to withdraw was one thing, but to pledge fervent love and loyalty for the republican party was beyond obscene.
Something transpired, what we will never know. For him to withdraw was one thing, but to pledge fervent love and loyalty for the republican party was beyond obscene. Others have put their whole on the line and lost it all. I guess they weren't reluctant which is why they did it? ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
At least he didn't and apparently won't be endorsing the establishment's McGabe. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
My Grandfather (removed) took down his musket and fought. In the process he froze his feet and became a cripple for life. In 1813 a "grateful" country awarded him a pension of $13 a month.
NONE ever were able to break the the misguided evangelicals
Life is unfair. God is just. We are blessed to be born Americans and retaining the American spirit comes with a cost. Time to water the Tree again. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Email from friend that fits in: Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence? Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army; another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War. They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags. Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him,and poverty was his reward. Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Rutledge, and Middleton. At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson Jr, noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months. John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild-eyed, rabble- rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." They gave you and me a free and independent America. The history books never told you a lot about what happened in the Revolutionary War. We didn't fight just the British. We were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government! Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't. So,take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid. Remember: Freedom is never free! It's time we get the word out that patriotism is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to it than beer, picnics, and baseball games.
Ah yes. My personal favorite. Thank you for that most timely and relevant submission! ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. I believe each died knowing that they passed something worthy forward. I hope so at least. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
And also remember that in 6 short months the reign of our modern day King George will be over. And though we may not regain the freedoms we lost because another Beltway Chosen tyrant will take charge in January 2009, let's rejoice at the thought that goofy and snarl and jerkoff will all be ordinary citizens then so they will be spied on by the very systems they put in place to spy on us rubes. Yippee! Not exactly liberation but heck misery loves company.
Amen for Men that will be real Men!
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I predict that by Summer 2009, smirk and friends will be in latitudes far south such as Paraguay! ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
The other day I saw this black police seargant in a convenience store and struck up a convo with him about driver's license checkpoints in a number of cities, and the constitutionality or lack thereof, of such checkpoints. the convo shifted and i told him about the ABC news report outlining how homeland security admits working with pastors throughout murika to prepare for martial law, and told him about the 400 million dollar contract for halliburton detainment camps. he had not heard of either story but it did not surprise him. he then talked about the phony iraq war, attempted war on iran, and then to my shock he mentioned the 'one world order'/(!!) I then bit the bullet and asked him about 911 being an inside job, and he said, nothing this govt does would suprise him. WOW. he said, yes he's a cop and does his job, but is still a man, and he doesnt approve of the NWO, and he said that the cops know about the NWO. unbelievable. and in the end, i said, well all i can do is thank you for being awake. and i reminded him, that he and his cohorts are going to be told that they are the enforcement arm of the NWO when the time comes. he said he hoped he'd be retired by then. i'm still shocked by this random conversation and what it revealed. i admit i found the conversation hopeful.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist." I have a convo like this more often than you'd imagine. Which is why the Police Super State is trilateral in nature. For enforcement purposes foremost! I hope this good man is NOT retired and in fact is willing to be a cog in taking down the effing rotten evil machine aka AmeriKa.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Reading, and re-reading, my post, I realize that there are many more names there that I do not recognize, than those I do. This makes me question how much we need a 'leader,' rather than many more like-minded folks that we can count on and trust to do right, when right needs to be done. Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful discussion on this thread.
This makes me question how much we need a 'leader,' rather than many more like-minded folks that we can count on and trust to do right, when right needs to be done. Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful discussion on this thread. I've read the content of what you posted many times before, for maybe 20 years now. Give or take. I will always remember these stories, because we're going to see them repeated! "God. Do something with the queen, please!?"
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I couldn't disagree more. I've been ripping the Bush administration since its early days via letters to the editors of the local fish wrap. I could always count on the same idiot with a poor son fighting for freedom (democracy, baseball, mom, and apple pie) being the the first to ring my phone in his outrage over my treasonous opposition to the Decider.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
"...As in our intercourse with our fellow men, certain principles of morality are assumed to exist without which society would be impossible, so certain inherent rights lie at the foundation of all action and upon a recognition of them alone can free institutions be maintained. These inherent rights have never been more happily expressed than in the declaration of independence, that new evangel of liberty to the people: "We hold these truths to be self-evident" -- that is, so plain that their truth is recognized upon their mere statement -- "that all men are endowed" -- not by edicts of emperors, or decrees of Parliament, or acts of Congress, but "by their Creator with certain inalienable rights" -- that is, rights which cannot be bartered away, or given away, or taken away, except in punishment of crime -- "and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and to secure these" -- not grant them, but secure them -- "governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." Among these inalienable rights, as proclaimed in that great document, is the right of men to pursue their happiness, by which is meant the right to pursue any lawful business or vocation, in any manner not inconsistent with the equal rights of others, which may increase their prosperity or develop their faculties, so as to give to them their highest enjoyment. The common business and callings of life, the ordinary trades and pursuits, which are innocuous in themselves, and have been followed in all communities from time immemorial, must therefore be free in this country to all alike upon the same conditions. The right to pursue them, without let or hindrance, except that which is applied to all persons of the same age, sex, and condition, is a distinguishing privilege of citizens of the United States, and an essential element of that freedom which they claim as their birthright. It has been well said that "the property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands, and to hinder his employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property. It is a manifest encroachment upon the just liberty both of the workman and of those who might be disposed to employ him. As it hinders the one from working at what he thinks proper, so it hinders the others from employing whom they think proper." Smith, Wealth of Nations, Bk. I, c. 10. Excerpt from Butchers' Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. This is what we've got to have the stones to do - engage whomever we can, and hopefully have some good DVD's to hand out to people with whom we come in contact, in whatever context. People KNOW that things are not right in our country.
Good history lesson. I am learning what they feel now. Two weeks ago we had all our dreams, a beautiful farm where we grow our own food and a wind-solar system meets our energy needs. Well Indiana capped property taxes and the caps will kick in fully by 2010. Things were looking good. Then things got strange. The town we live near, facing less revenue decided to forcibly annex as much land as possible. Our 70 acres will soon be taxed as commercial land. We must destroy our septic system and dig at least 700 feet to hook up sewer and pay all these costs. The sewer system will be put in under a neighborhood lein which we will have up to 30 years to pay off. The cost of all these services/improvements will then be added to my property value to further increase property taxes. Our well is pumped by solar energy and we must destroy it too. Then the neighboring landowner, who has tried through various means to buy us out over the past five years convinced city hall that he could put a commercial project on our farm which would benefit the city. I either accept his offer now or I accept a lower offer later after it is confiscated by eminate domain. I think this is how it all begins. We all understand that our federal government is a thinly veiled Police State, but do not underestimate your local government. We never saw this coming.
What a great post! and Amen!!
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Whatever happened to that sort of thinking?
Amazing. It must be that these parents need to convince themselves over and over again that their sacrificing their children for the MIC is something other than abrogating parental responsibilities to protect their offspring from evil.
Didn't your land have an ag exemption on it? How can it be arbitrarily be re-zoned as commercial property, just because doofus claims that he 'could' re-develop it? At least down here, if a city annexes property, they have to provide, and pay for all the city 'services' before they can increase the taxes. How many other owners are affected by this theft? Tomorrow, I'll try to get you some people/institutions to contact about this situation.
Thank you very much. I thought it was appropriate for this thread since it has a lot to do with the Declaration of Independence. If you have time check out another article I posted just a little while ago, Are You Free Or Just 'Freer'? I think you might like it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. This is very true. Most just live in fear or deny reality. One way or the other. ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Just damn
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Oh, some of us still think that way. Unfortunately too many Americans seem to want what they believe to be safety and security rather than liberty. But they should remember the wise words of Ben Franklin (iirc) who said that those who would give up liberty for some temporary security deserved neither and would lose both.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Where at in Indiana? That sounds a lot like the crap going on here in Ft. Wayne.
I am zoned agricultural and I have retained an attorney. Indiana has very unfriendly annexation laws. The state codes read as if only someone who requests annexation can apply for ag exemption. The city indicates it plans on rezoning all agricultural land. I cannot believe Eminate Domain laws allow my neighbor to covet my land and get away with it. This shall be an interesting year. Thanks for your concern.
oh, octavia. my heart goes out to you. i'm pinging Esso and Dak as they are in Indiana.
makes me wonder if your neighbor is government or is giving someone a kickback. it's hard to believe that there isn't something going on behind the scenes which allows this guy to steal your property.
Huntington.....they are annexing 1500 acres and 500 people including 144 nursing home patients. I hired the attorney who helped Ft Wayne annex Aboite. Very hard to remonstrate here. Unfortunately, people are hurting so bad that any leins or extra expense tips them into foreclosure.
Same here. It looks like I'll be losing 4 out of 5 of my immediate neighbors by next spring/summer.
i wonder how many of his fellow cops are this enlightened and i wonder if they talk about it amongst themselves. i'm betting they don't. i would have felt more hopeful if he hadn't answered you by saying he hopes he's retired. it was honest, but if he's not retired, i wonder what he'll do.
paragonfoundation.org/index.html off to look for more
BUMP TO READ THIS
Good. Hiring an experienced knowledgeable attorney is your best plan of action at this point.
No thanks are necessary - were I not concerned about your rights, and trying to help, what little I can, how could I expect anyone to help me, when it was my turn to get screwed? We best do all that we can in this fight for our freedom, and our 'unalienable' rights. Please keep us posted, O.
Americans have become fat and lazy. I would not doubt TV contains subliminal messages to sedate and subdue the masses. They are capable as well of poisoning food and water with substances which slow body and mental processes. It is like Rome in its Empire stage. I read once where the Romans used lead pipes to carry water from aquaducts to the people. Lead is a powerfull neurotoxin which makes people crazy, stupid. I am impressed that so many men who rose up in 1776 had so much to lose. 20th Century Americans will not revolt until they are homeless, cold, hungry, and without TV.
Confusion reigns, thought I was responding to another thread.
The Brits shot him down and hid his body. We have no one. Dont' be so sure about that. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Zec/Zec009.html#14 / www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Zec/9/14.html
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
here's another one:
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Time to go paw through the bathroom reading stack... Back shortly.
Fort Wayne, Ind., Continues Efforts to Buy Mall Property. From: The News-Sentinel (Fort Wayne, Indiana) (viaKnight-Ridder/Tribune Business News) Date: December 19, 2003 Dec. 19--FORT WAYNE, Ind.--Fort Wayne, as it continued efforts to buy Southtown Mall through eminent domain, met a Thursday court deadline to submit appraisal proposals. The city wants to pay $2.75 million for the mall property. Its owners, led by North Carolina businessman Haywood Whichard, want more. *********** The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Ind., local briefs column: Local Briefs. From: News-Sentinel (Fort Wayne, IN) Date: June 16, 2006 Jun. 16--Former Southtown site decision upheld The Indiana Supreme Court has upheld a lower court's decision that the city of Fort Wayne can complete the acquisition of the former Southtown Mall site without paying its former owner millions more.
Wasn't there a recent 'decision' that said that 'highest, and best-use' prices must be paid to the hoseees in these takings?
there is only one solution............
This theft will put people over the edge. When the State can ruin your life, it's time to return the compliment.
It really is time to stop this insanity. Holy shiite - what have we become?
Time is short. The establishment knows that the game is up. You've been warned! ;-)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
It time to stop lawyers in black robes from ruining our lives. We need leadership in every town, in every state. The Ft. Wayne 'planners' need to know just how angry we all are.
I really think that AR angry is what it will take. This is not said lightly, or even after a couple of pops, but, I cannot see any other way of effecting any change in our country. As long as we have the same selected jerk-wads making the rules, what chance for 'change' is there?
Good luck with that. We have over 10 cops per square mile here not including the county or state police. It's virtually impossible to be out of pistol range of a cop within the city limits.
Hey Lodwick, does 1 Dollar DVD have Alex's latest (9-11 Chronicles) ?
Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces. De La Boétie
I don't know. Ron waits until Alex gives the go ahead to copy stuff, but from what he's broadcasting these days, it's out there for all of us to download, copy, and spread the word to everyone that we can.
I watched it today on Prisonplanet.tv and there's a message that crosses the screen telling everyone to download and copy it. I need 50 copies !
Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces. De La Boétie
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx One man's reform is another man's subversion. The reformer must be a subversive. He must have an usurpive mindset. This is what Paul does not have.
She's got stars in her eyes & knots on her knees now I'm as into fireworks as the next guy, but if I have to pick one more spent quarter mile rocket out of my yard that was launched from the people across the creek, I might have to break out the party favors I've been saving for taking out APCs when the shit hits the fan.
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price." Vir Cotto, Babylon 5
"It will be answered, if at all, by someone who knows a great deal about contrived reinforcement."
She's got stars in her eyes & knots on her knees now Barrett time? Or something more serious?
thank you for that link!
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
The battle of armageddon has begun.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
In our modern life we are fat and happy and safe and selfish. The question for today is whether in that comfort and selfishness, an essential American idea has been extinguished, or is just sleeping.
#2. To: X-15 (#0)
#3. To: X-15, All (#0)
#4. To: X-15 (#0)
Does the fiery spirit of 1776 still burn?
#5. To: Cynicom (#4)
Does the fiery spirit of 1776 still burn?
#6. To: Rotara (#5)
before I (maybe) come back and address this post! ;-)
#7. To: Cynicom (#6)
This country has been involved in two major wars in its own interest.
#8. To: Rotara (#7)
All of that being said, would you not agree with me that there are at least 1,000,000 Americans left willing to wage and win a last minute overthrow of the illegal shadow government.
#9. To: Cynicom (#8)
NO....
#10. To: X-15 (#0)
The question for today is whether in that comfort and selfishness, an essential American idea has been extinguished, or is just sleeping.
#11. To: Rotara (#9)
This isn't about 1 guy anymore, nor was it ever IMO. ;-)
#12. To: Cynicom (#11)
Recall the difference between the Revolutionary times and now.
#13. To: Cynicom (#11)
#14. To: Rotara (#12)
I have something. I hope you still have something. I hope at least 1 million others have something. ;-)
#15. To: Cynicom (#14)
#16. To: robnoel (#13)
Can't blame Ron Paul for the apathy of the GDP
#17. To: Cynicom (#14)
Let one man stand up and ask this government be overthrown and he will be in prison or worse.
#18. To: Cynicom (#16)
Paul in his Trotsky memo made it quite clear that he had no stomach for a fight outside of the two party system..
#19. To: robnoel (#15)
#20. To: Cynicom (#11)
Ron Paul did us a disservice by NOT bringing out someone with fire in their belly to lead, someone that shared his views. We have nothing.
#21. To: Rotara (#18)
#22. To: Jethro Tull (#20)
RP won't be part of what I envision; he remains a Republican and I don't think he'd agree with whites joining together.
#23. To: Cynicom (#21)
My hero was Dr. Joseph Warren. He orated, wrote and agitated the people to rise up and they did, on opening day he took up his musket and died as a Private fighting for the cause he believed in.
#24. To: Cynicom (#16)
Only a fool would ever consider reform from "within the system".
#25. To: Cynicom (#22)
After the Trotsky memo there was nothing to be expected from Paul.
#26. To: Rotara (#23)
And what was the final result of what ensued? ;-)
#27. To: robnoel (#24)
Instead, the wealth and freedom we now enjoy are shrinking and rest upon a fragile philosophic infrastructure. It is not unlike the levies and bridges in our own country that our system of war and welfare has caused us to ignore.
#28. To: robnoel (#24)
Something Big is Going On
#29. To: Cynicom (#26)
And what was the final result of what ensued? ;-)
#30. To: Rotara (#25)
Trotsky imo was a code for 'my campaign was overthrown'.
#31. To: Cynicom (#30)
Trotsky imo was a code for 'my campaign was overthrown'.
#32. To: Cynicom (#30)
but to pledge fervent love and loyalty for the republican party was beyond obscene
#33. To: Rotara (#29)
I do not lightly commit myself to such a dead end proposition, but in this I must say that it is HIGH TIME to remember the fallen and those that will fall.
#34. To: Cynicom (#28)
NONE ever were able to break the "two party" system.
#35. To: Cynicom (#33)
My Grandfather (removed) took down his musket and fought. In the process he froze his feet and became a cripple for life. In 1813 a "grateful" country awarded him a pension of $13 a month
#36. To: Cynicom. The Thread (#19)
I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts here.
#37. To: lodwick (#36)
At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson Jr, noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.
#38. To: lodwick (#36)
Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.
#39. To: lodwick (#36)
Remember: Freedom is never free! It's time we get the word out that patriotism is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to it than beer, picnics, and baseball games.
#40. To: lodwick (#36)
These were not wild-eyed, rabble- rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
#41. To: scrapper2 (#39)
#42. To: Rotara, Cynicom, christine, original_intent, twentytwelve, psusa, james deffenbach, jethro_tull, lodwick (#7)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#43. To: Artisan (#42)
he said he hoped he'd be retired by then.
#44. To: scrapper2, Rotara, Cynicom, patriots (#39)
#45. To: lodwick (#44)
Reading, and re-reading, my post, I realize that there are many more names there that I do not recognize, than those I do.
#46. To: Rotara (#7)
All of that being said, would you not agree with me that there are at least 1,000,000 Americans left willing to wage and win a last minute overthrow of the illegal shadow government. Especially if the majority of military families side with America? ;-)
#47. To: X-15 (#0)
Lord Acton
#48. To: Artisan (#42)
i'm still shocked by this random conversation and what it revealed. i admit i found the conversation hopeful.
#49. To: lodwick (#36)
#50. To: James Deffenbach (#47)
the property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable.
#51. To: James Deffenbach (#47)
Dear God.
#52. To: iconoclast (#46)
(Edited)
I could always count on the same idiot with a poor son fighting for freedom (democracy, baseball, mom, and apple pie) being the the first to ring my phone in his outrage over my treasonous opposition to the Decider.
#53. To: octavia (#49)
Speechless.
#54. To: Rotara (#50)
What a great post! and Amen!!
Lord Acton
#55. To: lodwick (#48)
People KNOW that things are not right in our country.
#56. To: octavia (#49)
#57. To: lodwick (#51)
Whatever happened to that sort of thinking?
Lord Acton
#58. To: octavia (#49)
#59. To: lodwick (#53)
#60. To: octavia, Esso, Dakmar (#49)
#61. To: octavia (#59)
I cannot believe Eminate Domain laws allow my neighbor to covet my land and get away with it.
#62. To: Esso (#58)
#63. To: octavia (#62)
Unfortunately, people are hurting so bad that any leins or extra expense tips them into foreclosure.
#64. To: Artisan (#42)
#65. To: octavia (#62)
Here's one that helps sponsor www.derrybrownfield.com -
#66. To: angle, BUMP TO READ THIS (#24)
Something Big is Going On
#67. To: octavia (#62)
I hired the attorney who helped Ft Wayne annex Aboite.
#68. To: octavia (#59)
Thanks for your concern.
#69. To: lodwick (#36)
(Edited)
#70. To: All (#69)
#71. To: Cynicom (#21)
My hero was Dr. Joseph Warren. He orated, wrote and agitated the people to rise up and they did, on opening day he took up his musket and died as a Private fighting for the cause he believed in.
#72. To: lodwick, octavia (#65)
#73. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt, octavia (#72)
Another good one, but I'm still looking for another one.
#74. To: octavia, Esso (#62)
It looks like your supreme court will fall on the side of eminent domain.
#75. To: All (#73)
OK - found it - The Institute for Justice -
#76. To: Jethro Tull (#74)
#77. To: Jethro Tull (#74)
The Indiana Supreme Court has upheld a lower court's decision that the city of Fort Wayne can complete the acquisition of the former Southtown Mall site without paying its former owner millions more.
#78. To: christine (#77)
#79. To: Jethro Tull, property 'owners' here (#78)
#80. To: christine (#77)
there is only one solution............
#81. To: lodwick (#79)
#82. To: Jethro Tull (#81)
The Ft. Wayne 'planners' need to know just how angry we all are.
#83. To: Jethro Tull, lodwick (#81)
The Ft. Wayne 'planners' need to know just how angry we all are.
#84. To: lodwick (#48)
#85. To: noone222 (#84)
#86. To: lodwick (#85)
(Edited)
#87. To: X-15, REDPANTHER (#0)
BTTT
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#88. To: Cynicom (#16)
Only a fool would ever consider reform from "within the system".
Her crazy grass shift really sways in the breeze now
#89. To: X-15 (#0)
#90. To: X-15 (#0)
Her crazy grass shift really sways in the breeze now
#91. To: orangedog (#89)
I'm as into fireworks as the next guy, but if I have to pick one more spent quarter mile rocket out of my yard that was launched from the people across the creek, I might have to break out the party favors I've been saving for taking out APCs when the shit hits the fan.
#92. To: lodwick (#75)
The Institute for Justice -
#93. To: Rotara (#80)
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