And

youtu.be/7kL7qDeI05U

But don't watch these two videos.

Don't question plate tectonics.

Man, don't even think about using common logic.

The academic gate keepers have given us all the truth of everything and it would be better to discuss flat earth before one even considers the validity of expanding earth.

You throw out strawmen dude. Many people have gone to Antarctica, use Google if you're interested in who discovered it.

I'm talking about people such as Ferdinand Magellan

Ferdinand Magellan (/mYÈa[lYn/[1] or /mYÈd’[lYn/;[2] Portuguese: Fernão de Magalhães, IPA: [fh~ÈnPw dh mPcPÈŽPjƒ]; Spanish: Fernando de Magallanes, IPA: [fe~Ènando ðe macaÈŽanes]; c. 1480 – 27 April 1521) was a Portuguese explorer who organised the Spanish expedition to the East Indies from 1519 to 1522, resulting in the first circumnavigation of the Earth, completed by Juan Sebastián Elcano.

Apparently you've never heard of him.

Do you believe in airplanes and boats? They have frequently traveled across the globe. If the earth was flat as you believe, boats would have fallen off long ago, and airplanes would have been able to see where the edges were.

Additionally, navigation would be impossible since all charts and headings assume a spherical earth.

Scientists. You mean the ones who insist that there are more than two genders? The scientists who claim "Global Warming"?

It's only left wing snowflakes, not scientists, that believe that in the same way you flat earthers believe you have it right.

Climate change is a racket where SOME paid off individuals repeat what they're told to repeat. The true experts know it's all a hoax.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say you know very little about either Earth "Exploration" OR "Science" -- but "know" a whole LOT about "Interplantetary Travel" and "Space Exploration."

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you've never attended any type of school. Surprised you know English.

Of course you would have no idea of Newton's Laws of Motion.

And I seriously doubt you know the difference between Algebra and Calculus.

The South Pole is fake

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I suppose there is no north pole either, eh? Compasses are devices of the devil, right?

You could be in Africa, China, the US, Europe, it doesn't matter.

The fastest way to get to Europe from the US would be to travel east. BUT you COULD travel west and STILL get there, it'd just take much longer. You'd have to cross the Pacific, go over Russia, then arrive in Europe.

OR you could take the shorter route over the Atlantic and get there faster.

Do you think the Pacific Ocean and Russia are fake too?

Never heard of Newton's Laws of Motion I take it...

From Wiki

Newton's laws of motion are three physical laws that, together, laid the foundation for classical mechanics. They describe the relationship between a body and the forces acting upon it, and its motion in response to those forces. More precisely, the first law defines the force qualitatively, the second law offers a quantitative measure of the force, and the third asserts that a single isolated force doesn't exist. These three laws have been expressed in several ways, over nearly three centuries,[a] and can be summarised as follows:

First law
In an inertial frame of reference, an object either remains at rest or continues to move at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force.[2][3]

Second law
In an inertial frame of reference, the vector sum of the forces F on an object is equal to the mass m of that object multiplied by the acceleration a of the object: F = ma. (It is assumed here that the mass m is constant – see below.)

Third law
When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.

And while you're at it, exactly what did I claim about Einstein that you object to?

You said, "Einstein's sham 'Theory of Relativity' save the day for Fake Science. " amongst other laughable remarks you made.

You have no idea of what the Theory of Relativity is, so never mind making any sort of claim against it.

I've been to 43 of the lower 48 states when driving trucks. Just a few in New England and North and South Dakota and Montana are not on the list. I drove a lot of miles safely over a period of about 15 years. ;)

watch a 2 hour video asserting that water is dry

I'm glad I did not waste any time watching that video. ;)

Water always follows the curvature of the earth.

If the Gulf of Mexico were at a higher elevation than the Midwest, the Mississippi River would flow north.

But the batter is a liquid, there is no friction. :)

C'mon bro, all substances can exert friction, including air and water.

As an example, hurricane force winds can knock down trees due to friction.

Another example, submarines would be able to travel underwater without propulsion once in motion if the water around it didn't slow the submarine down due to friction.

However, the surrounding area is at or above sea level, including the California coastline.

Apparently the flat earthers don't understand the fact that the seas are ALL at the same level, that's why sea level is a constant value.

Sure, storm surges and tides cause the shorelines to experience minor differences in water heights at the shore, but that's it. All oceans are at the same average level.

The Bible is the very first "Flat Earth" book; Flat Earth is proven via observation, by common sense, by REAL science.

1. Point out where in the bible it's stated that the earth is flat
2. Flat earth is disproven by observation AND common sense
3. Apparently the only science you know of is JUNK science cooked up by wackjobs on YouTube

Some people -- no matter how intelligent -- do not and will not ever admit that they have been bamboozled their entire lives with THE Mother of ALL Lies, backed up by Masonic/Talmudic lies regarding Heliocentrism, Gravity, Earth Movement, Evolution, and of course, Einstein's phony theory of "Relativity."

Ah, Dr. Flat Earth speaks.

I KNEW I spotted you claiming you're more brilliant than Einstein somewhere, and I found an example right there.

So you don't believe there is a force called gravity eh? LOL!!!!!

Explain then what force causes objects to fall to the ground?

Is it the devil?

What causes the tides? Is it the devil?

Why is air thinner at higher altitudes? The devil?

Why can we see planets rotate and revolve around the sun using telescopes, and accurately plot their positions using math and physics?

There are so MANY things flat earthers can't explain, those are just a tiny fraction of them.

all substances can exert friction, including air and water.

I know, I was being goofy to make a point. There is a reason for the heat shields on craft such as space shuttles.

Or it's a prima facie case as to why this country is lost.

I've got to hand it to you, with over 100 replies this is the most successful troll I've ever seen on the 4um.

Who are you again??

zzzzz....

Insecurity and lack of knowledge have always prompted certain posters to claim "TROLL!" OR even "CT!" at forums. You're not special. We've seen this phenomena play out for over 20 years, beginning at Free Republic, where the "Troll" or "CT!" card is still used by those with a losing hand, providing convenient cover for sheer ignorance.

At smaller, clique-ish forums like LF or 4um, such claims are sure and loud signs that one is signaling painful obliviousness, and cluelessness.

On the other hand... If you were hoping eventually for a few "ATTA BOY!!" pats on the head, your sake, I hope you get the approval you seek from your peers; If you don't, I hope you'll be ok.

After a cursory look, there's anecdotal evidence that appears to suggest an "uneven" record of forum contribution from a slightly noisy, boring poster named, 'Anthem'.

In *your* mind, you've ALL the answers. That's BE-CAUSE...you've/we've all been taught or rather indoctrinated with the very same history, science, math, and especially so-called "TRUTH" in public school, on TV, in Movies, in the Mainstream Media. AND... we know of course THEY wouldn't lie to you or me or all of us. OR WOULD THEY?

Everyone has an agenda. Everyone lies -- especially those in power. Worst than that -- these PTB worship power & control at ANY expense. If you agree, this mean higher knowledge & true history must necessarily be hidden and reserved for those who control the levers and systems of this realm. It is indeed being proven -- that is IF one seeks it.

On the otherhand, if you are perfectly content with your current status quo and state of awareness and "truth" (as contemporary society's high priests of institutional "knowledge" present it), then by all means continue to embrace it.

However, by wrapping yourself around your Orwellian quote regarding, "Those who control the past control the future" as well as those who "control the present control the past," -- and truly believe it as your own personal philosophy -- they are two contradictory positions at best, and oblivious at worse.

One can NOT be an Orwellian disciple AND still embrace all we are told by the PTB is THE "TRUTH!"

:-)

I KNEW I spotted you claiming you're more brilliant than Einstein somewhere, and I found an example right there.

Really now?? LOL

(Though I admire your fighting spirit -- though reckless as it is.)

So you don't believe there is a force called gravity eh? LOL!!!!!

Explain then what force causes objects to fall to the ground?

"Gravity" is NOT a natural force that is proven.

But since you believe exactly what you've been told from K-12, please do instruct the class on Newton's Theory, (which is why it is STILL referred to as a "THEORY" and how and why it's not EVER been "proven.")

Btw, Neil de Grasse Tyson -- obviously one of your heroes -- was asked to explain "Gravity"; Wanna guess how he answered the question?

Heliocentrism. PROVE IT.
Gravity. PROVE IT.
Earth Movement. PROVE IT.
Evolution. PROVE IT.
Einstein's Theory of "Relativity" (HINT: It's called " THEORY".) So PROVE it is MORE than just a "Theory."
"Globe" Earth: PROVE IT
Antarctica "Explorers of THE CONTINENT": PROVE IT
"Big Bang": PROVE IT

Why?

Because is evokes the kind of anger and ridicule Wudidiz (a courageous and true "Truther") and others have endured for having the audacity to challenge institutional lies and fake science. To do so is to cause folks to admit that...for all their lives they been bamboozled. (few want to concede this embarrassment.)

Most of these "scientific facts" have been drilled into us from childhood and repeated into adulthood. They comprise the biggest psyops and mind-control programming in world history. Not only is NONE of the above proven, but they are DIS-proven. The biggest challenge is "re-educating" ourselves. (This single subject has caused minds to explode once the lies are exploded and realized. BUT then ...Truth is a beautiful thing.)

Science is supposed to be physically provable and repeatable ;-)

BINGO. EXACTLY!!

Truth is a beautiful thing.

It is, my brothah! (Sistah?) Psyops YES, everything is oriented toward stampeding Us The Sheeple off some cliff -- the face cliff, the sex cliff, the history cliff, the basic logic cliff.

How many of us FINALLY realized our own govt has been lying to us on a massive scale? BIG TIME?

911 certainly rings a GIANT bell. How about the USS Liberty? Gulf of Tonkin? And weren't the Korean and Vietnam Wars based on lies?

How about BOTH Iraqi wars? How many of us were told, "We're fighting them THERE so we don't have to fight them HERE."? Why won't many admit that it was proven that our PTB fought NOT to win, but to play to a stalemate?

So as in the above cases once, again we note that the majority can NOT believe our own govt would either lie to us OR hurt us. TO ADVANCE AGENDAS TO CONTROL US. YET....They do! AS A RULE -- NOT as the exception.

It is, my brothah! (Sistah?)

NN, I identify as a transgendered, tri-ethnic elf. (before my transition, I was born male ;-P (and you?)

Psyops YES, everything is oriented toward stampeding Us The Sheeple off some cliff -- the face cliff, the sex cliff, the history cliff, the basic logic cliff.

You get it. Aced across the board.

All we can do is discredit and shed the lies we've all been conditioned with while share our discoveries and revelations to our brothers and sisters with hope that Truth spreads and frees them/us.

Many will not nor do not welcome their world as they've been told it exists being challenged; Ignorance truly is bliss for most.

They have not one SHRED of defense for falling for any more such shenanigans.

"Gravity" is NOT a natural force that is proven.

Oh, so objects don't fall to the ground if dropped? You're saying it's a man made force?

LOL!!!!

You can do your own experiment. Drop your cellphone over hard concrete and see if it floats...

PROVE IT.

Prove that you're a real person and not a troll.

As far as the planets orbiting the sun, buy yourself a telescope and educate yourself.

In *your* mind, you've ALL the answers. That's BE-CAUSE...you've/we've all been taught or rather indoctrinated with the very same history, science, math, and especially so-called "TRUTH" in public school, on TV, in Movies, in the Mainstream Media. AND... we know of course THEY wouldn't lie to you or me or all of us. OR WOULD THEY?

Everyone has an agenda. Everyone lies --

I'm not sure if you're really the scatter brained anti-science whacko you pretend to be here, or if you're a troll that purposely acts like a nutjob in order to discredit everything else you say, as well as those who agree with you on other topics via guilt by association.

I see you appear rational and well-versed on most other topics, so I have to assume the latter.

Nobody with a working brain cell can be the fervent religious zealot you appear to be on this topic.

And of course, if anything you claim here were true, there would be no 4um as computers wouldn't exist, since ALL science in your mind is fake.

If it weren't for the advanced understanding of math and physics, not only would semiconductors not exist, in fact, we'd be at 15th century level. You would still be riding horses instead of driving in cars.

In fact, the United States wouldn't exist since nobody would have been able to find their way here across the Atlantic Ocean, and even if they accidently did, they'd never be able to get here using known and proven navigation techniques.

As far as modern technology, the very fact most if not all cellphones have GPS technology disproves the notion of a flat earth, since the phone will give you your precise location no matter where you are on the planet, even if the nearest cell tower is 1000 miles or more out of range, since GPS uses SATELLITES.

Since I can't believe you really ARE that stupid, what IS your agenda here on 4um? Apparently you admit that YOU lie and have an agenda, as you include yourself in the phrase, "everybody lies".

There's no reason for scientists to lie about proven and well understood concepts know for hundreds of years. You apparently have a reason to do so however.

I'm not sure if you're really the scatter brained anti-science whacko you pretend to be here, or if you're a troll that purposely acts like a nutjob in order to discredit everything else you say, as well as those who agree with you on other topics via guilt by association.

I see you appear rational and well-versed on most other topics, so I have to assume the latter.

That's the way I have him figured.

After two phony World War involvements the sheeple should have seen right through the Gulf of Tonkin fraud, or at least demanded positive proof.

And in view of that affair -- 56 YEARS AGO AWREDDY -- they should have slammed the door in the neocons' faces about 9/11, the War Of Terror and the INSTANT creation of the Department of Home Insecurity.

It's taken a while, but thanks to the internet, all kinds of damning proof of the gummint's theater and deception for the last 50 years is getting exposed. FINALLY.

But ...there IS some bad news too, isn't there? Unbelievably, the vast majority are STILL giving Uncle Sam the benefit of doubt on all their historical revisionism and agenda...

In the wake of 911 came the bogus WoT, and the completely illegal, phony "INSTANT creation of the Department of Home Insecurity". And... HOW in the world did the 'Patriot Act' even pass enactment & approval when it wasn't even read by members of Congress??

They have not one SHRED of defense for falling for any more such shenanigans.

True dat.

And despite all the truth out there online, how are supposedly "woke" people STILL not seeing an outlaw gummint who is destroying the USCON? Who've been telegraphing and creating phony wars and bogeymen?

But why? Maybe... Cognitive Dissonance. Mind-Control/Programming. Propaganda content coming up first by search engines. Wishful Thinking. Ignorance. Trolls.

You may want to ratchet down your 'tude a bit. It's only a forum. Nobody's gonna hurt you.

HOW in the world did the 'Patriot Act' even pass enactment & approval when it wasn't even read by members of Congress??

The arch-scum used the oldest trick in the book: pressing the "foreign threat" or "Hitler of the year" button.

The arch-scum used the oldest trick in the book: pressing the "foreign threat" or "Hitler of the year" button.

Lol@ ""Hitler of the year"...

For how long is this "Hitler!!" BS going to be weaponized by the Insane Left/MSM/Dems? (For that matter, the weaponizing of "anti-Semite!!" "Homophobe!!" "Xenophobe!!" etc?

NN, looks like the trickster Globalists/Neos *still* think they can trot out their phony intel out of Foggy Bottom and have it sold, no questions asked. Should we expect a retaliatory False Flag -- just so they can say, "SEE? WE TOLD YOU SO!"?

Those "Foreign Threat" Cards; "Threat to 'Merican lives" Cards -- Have they ever been regarded with such dis-believability as these days? That's the good news. The bad news: At Free Republic so-called "conservatives" STILL swallowed hard on Pompeo's silly bait on the Irani General hit and ridiculous justification.

GPS uses SATELLITES.

When I drove the big truck, I was able to use maps to find my way around. Now they have GPS in the trucks. So unless the satellites quit sending and receiving signals it might be pretty difficult to get lost on the road.

I had some green kid with me a couple of times and he just could not find his way around. What is the big deal of reading signs so you know where to turn? I bet he is no longer driving trucks.

BTW, when the U.S. invaded Iraq, the Iraqis never expected anyone to come out of the desert to the west. But the U.S. tanks had GPS and could find their way around. ;)

Whoa, Cowboy.

You may want to ratchet down your 'tude a bit. It's only a forum. Nobody's gonna hurt you.

I was merely responding to your comments and presenting my observations.

Who was talking about anybody hurting someone?

NN, looks like the trickster Globalists/Neos *still* think they can trot out their phony intel out of Foggy Bottom and have it sold, no questions asked.

It looks like it just goes on forever. If this present Iran nonsense is a turning point, horray for Lemon Man and everybody who ever lobbed some static at him.

'But how can you control matter?' he burst out. 'You don't even control the climate or the law of gravity. O'Brien silenced him by a movement of his hand. 'We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. You will learn by degrees, Winston. There is nothing that we could not do. Invisibility, levitation -- anything. I could float off this floor like a soap bubble if I wish to. I do not wish to, because the Party does not wish it. You must get rid of those nineteenth-century ideas about the laws of Nature. We make the laws of Nature.' 'But the world itself is only a speck of dust. And man is tiny helpless! How long has he been in existence? For millions of years the earth was uninhabited.' 'Nonsense. The earth is as old as we are, no older. How could it be older? Nothing exists except through human consciousness.' 'But the rocks are full of the bones of extinct animals -- mammoths and mastodons and enormous reptiles which lived here long before man was ever heard of.' 'Have you ever seen those bones, Winston? Of course not. Nineteenth-century biologists invented them. Before man there was nothing. After man, if he could come to an end, there would be nothing. Outside man there is nothing.' 'But the whole universe is outside us. Look at the stars! Some of them are a million light-years away. They are out of our reach for ever.' 'What are the stars?' said O'Brien indifferently. 'They are bits of fire a few kilometres away. We could reach them if we wanted to. Or we could blot them out. The Earth is the centre of the universe. The sun and the stars go round it.' Winston made another convulsive movement. This time he did not say anything. O'Brien continued as though answering a spoken objection: 'For certain purposes, of course, that is not true. When we navigate the ocean, or when we predict an eclipse, We often find it convenient to assume that the earth goes round the sun and that the stars are millions upon millions of kilometres away. But what of it? Do you suppose it is beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you forgotten doublethink?

Pompeo's silly bait on the Irani General hit and ridiculous justification.

We know that Pompeo is a neocon. But could you enlighten us on what his "silly bait" was? ;)

We know that Pompeo is a neocon. But could you enlighten us on what his "silly bait" was? ;)

Sure.

Globalist Hawk Pompeo sold the "Imminent Threat to American lives" intel real hard as justification for a very public drone strike on the Irani General, but was conspicuously absent on ALL details of when, where, etc.

He admitted that it was he and other Neocons who convinced the President that Solemeni MUST be knocked off. OR ELSE.

Pompeo when challenged by a reporter, cited ONE American -- a "contractor" aka merc -- who has been killed. Q: Is that really a reason to almost start a major war with Iran?

A simple common sense question might be: WTH are our mercs still doing creating havoc in SOMEONE'S ELSE'S sovereign country?? (We sure wouldn't want foreign mercs HERE doing the same thing.)

Even IF the evil Solemeini was was plotting and planning -- why not just *quietly* knock him off??

Look - I am a conservative pro-America guy. But no sir -- I will NEVER again believe "Intel" from the very same sources who blatantly lied to get us into TWO wars in Iraq, and now desperate want us to again splatter the Middle East with our sons' blood.

It looks like it just goes on forever.

Sure does, doesn't it? The war-drums BS is never ending.

If this present Iran nonsense is a turning point, horray for Lemon Man and everybody who ever lobbed some static at him.

HA! Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

WE The Sane are sandwiched between the lunacy of the Hate-America Leftist-Fascism of Lemon Man Inc AND the One World Govt/Neocon Perpetual War Party.

I thank *YOU* for bringing TRUTH to the table and never giving up. Once you see it, it's glaring, isn't it? It just goes to show how deeply and effectively the programming and mind control of the PTB has been for the last 100+ years.

"You must get rid of those nineteenth-century ideas about the laws of Nature....'We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. "

BINGO! Well done. (we've a lot to share) Nice money quotes...

Embedded in Orwell's book are all kinds of subtle and not-so-subtle subjects on truth across the spectrum.

Since the nineteenth-century, we've trusted allowed the PTB to "control the mind" and thus "control reality" with programmed, counterfeit "ideas." That is EXACTLY what they've done; Perception became "reality" -- backed up by the "Authorities" of institutional pseudo-science AND pseudo-math. And that is where we still stand today, don't we?

Mathematicians as well as Science and their "Scientific" methods AND theories are challenged by Orwell.

And yes, also challenged: the stars actual distance; The heliocentric model (Geocentricity was THE known realm model consensus for the vast majority of REAL history); Motion; There is a bunch of Truth in your excerpts.

I'd posted the following up-thread; There are several helpful books on the subject that I'd recommended that help explain how, why and especially WHEN the West began getting deceived. (Maybe you've read some.)

The first one ('Kings Dethroned', Author: Gerrard Hickson) actually delves back into history and dissects/exposes the entire historical/scientifically defective theories (which provide THE basis for today's "Outer Space" House of Cards.)

Einstein's fake "Theory of Relativity" and Newton's "Theory of Gravity" are especially debunked thoroughly.

1) 'Kings Dethroned'

(Author: Gerrard Hickson, published, 1923)

Other highly recommended important books (also written and published back when knowledge wasn't censored or controlled by the PTB) are:

2) Zetetic Astronomy -- Earth is Not a Globe

(Samuel Birley Rowbotham)

3) Terra Firma: the Earth Not a Planet, Proved from Scripture, Reason, and Fact

(David Wardlaw Scott)

4) The Greatest Lie on Earth: Proof That Our World Is Not a Moving Globe

(Edward Hendrie)

HEADS UP: The above books ALSO consider Biblical/Divine authority and reference as to the description of our Realm and Firmament and sequence during which God created the Firmament and Cosmos in Genesis.

That you already fully understand and embrace the Absolute Truth about our Realm is a great thing!

I found it mind-boggling that Science and scientists by 1860s-1920s were already so well in tune and familiar with and to natural earthly "laws" and our actual realm.

Moreover -- unbeknownst to us today -- at the time (1880-1920) there was still a major battle being waged over ALL these theories and whether or not they were indeed "proven" rather than just "theories." Well, Wudidiz -- we know who ultimately won that philosophical/psychological war, don't we...

The GOOD news: THE Truth is spreading.

I was merely responding to your comments and presenting my observations.

Chyeah, right.

Lol -- Is that why you posted and disseminated someone's else's propagandist lies at Post #121? (The Flat Earthers Are Being Sent Into Every Real Truth Movement To Disrupt And Destroy Them)

You have been posting several Red Herrings and Strawmen arguments of phantom questions and issues. Lame. SO VERY lame.

And somehow you actually expect me to take you seriously? Naah. No thanks.

Even if I don't agree with someone, I still respect an honest, sincere debate. You're just not capable.

I will not ever respect an obvious troll with an agenda, a bleating Gatekeeper of Institutional Lies, a shill of/for Disinfo. Truth isn't even on your radar.