Stock markets around the world collapsed yesterday as market panic led to massive sell offs of over 10% on U.S. markets, the worst crash since October 1987 and European stocks had the largest falls seen since 1940.
? Gold started the day well and only started falling at 1130 GMT and ended the day 4% lower; the sell off was once again solely a futures market phenomenon as government mints, refineries and gold bullion brokers around the world including GoldCore, saw very significant demand for coins and bars – and very little selling.
Poster Comment:
Good sign. End is nigh.
#1: StraitGate To: Horse (#0)
But the gold/silver ratio is up to 105. Never saw it that high before.
StraitGate posted on 2020-03-13 14:20:28 Reply Private Reply
#2: Anthem To: Horse, All, reminder (#0)
Anthem posted on 2020-03-13 14:43:48 Reply Private Reply
#3: randge To: StraitGate (#1)
Good question.
Corporations and investors are scrambing like mad for the strongest liquid currency to do business in. That makes for a strong dollar. When you price PM's in rising dollars, the price of PM's will tend to decrease.
Also investors have also been putting a lot of gold and silver on the market to cover their losses in shorts and other badly performing assets. It is quick er to cash out of PM's than to sell the ranch.
randge posted on 2020-03-13 14:57:56 Reply Private Reply
#4: Horse To: randge, StraitGate (#3)
Horse posted on 2020-03-13 15:08:25 Reply Private Reply
#5: NeoconsNailed To: Horse (#4)
NeoconsNailed posted on 2020-03-13 15:16:09 Reply Private Reply
#6: Anthem To: Horse, randage, StraitGate (#0)
I am reminded of 1987. There is a lot of debt that is expected to vanish, which is deflationary and is built into today's strong dollar and panicky markets. What's next is huge fiscal stimulus going into infrastructure spending in the US, just as China has poured a lot of their paper into infrastructure (often badly). This will be the last gasp of the labor market before AI reaches industrialization and changes the economic structure for production labor permanently. Still, it will be good for the middle class over the mid-term (10 years)
Anthem posted on 2020-03-13 15:23:04 Reply Private Reply
#7: Anthem To: NeoconsNailed (#5)
I believe that is known as the "greater fool theory".
Anthem posted on 2020-03-13 15:24:45 Reply Private Reply
#8: NeoconsNailed To: Anthem (#7)
NeoconsNailed posted on 2020-03-13 15:39:05 Reply Private Reply
#9: Anthem To: NeoconsNailed (#8)
Anthem posted on 2020-03-13 15:43:52 Reply Private Reply
#10: StraitGate To: NeoconsNailed (#5)
In general, yes. But in my experience, that notion falls apart during times of extreme volatility, for silver anyway. When silver dropped 50% in 2008 -- to about $9.50/oz -- I tried to buy, but the premiums were outrageous. Like the man said, "It's a big club -- and you ain't in it."
StraitGate posted on 2020-03-13 15:47:33 Reply Private Reply
#11: StraitGate To: randge (#3)
StraitGate posted on 2020-03-13 15:48:37 Reply Private Reply
#12: hondo68 To: StraitGate, fake paper gold (#1)
That's paper gold that's going down, ETF's, not the yellow stuff.
Trade all of your paper fiat FRN's & phony paper PM's for the real thing, physical Gold & Silver.
hondo68 posted on 2020-03-13 16:07:42 Reply Private Reply
#13: Lod To: StraitGate, Anthem, NN, PM buyers, 4um (#10)
texmetals.com
providentmetals.com
Both are TX companies that have a perfect track record with me over the years.
Lod posted on 2020-03-13 19:49:48 Reply Private Reply
#14: randge To: StraitGate (#11)
And that's not to say that the usual suspects ain't at work suppressing PM prices.
randge posted on 2020-03-13 19:58:08 Reply Private Reply
#15: StraitGate To: Lod (#13)
Thanks Lod, that's good info.
StraitGate posted on 2020-03-13 20:43:41 Reply Private Reply
#16: StraitGate To: randge (#14)
Yes, those Irishmen can be pretty tricky.
StraitGate posted on 2020-03-13 20:45:09 Reply Private Reply
#17: Lod To: hondo68, 4um (#12)
I pulled the trigger on some yellow stuff, for better or worse.
Lod posted on 2020-03-13 21:08:05 Reply Private Reply
#18: Esso To: Lod, 4um (#17)
Hey, Loddy, check out MoneyMetals.com
Interesting stuff, premiums might be a bit high, but you never know when you're going to need a good supply of rhodium.
The .999 copper rounds caught my eye, some neat designs and only about a buck a whack. Might be a good gift to give a future metal bug. Cheap, copper's been down quite awhile.
Esso posted on 2020-03-13 22:21:47 Reply Private Reply
#19: Esso To: StraitGate, Lod, 4um (#15)
I've dealt with OnlyGold.com (buy side) and TexMetals.com (sell side), never had a problem.
Premiums going in and out kinda suck, as does the shipping and insurance, but that's part of the physical game.
Might do better on Ebay, but, I dunno about dealing with an unknown...
Esso posted on 2020-03-13 22:28:52 Reply Private Reply
#20: Lod To: Esso (#18)
They were a bit cheaper than Provident, so I'll definitely check them out further, thanks, again.
Lod posted on 2020-03-13 22:44:08 Reply Private Reply
#21: Lod To: Pinguinite, Esso, StraitGate, 4 (#19)
But one never knows...
Lod posted on 2020-03-13 22:48:51 Reply Private Reply
#22: Pinguinite To: StraitGate (#1)
Very good question. In the long term, yes, but at the time of a crash, people want/need/are forced to sell their assets at a loss or come up with cash to better cover their existing positions, and that means gold and silver start being sold in a frenzy. And when everyone starts selling everything, it means that dollars themselves are in high demand, making the dollar worth more compared to about everything else, so precious metal prices tend to drop.
But once all that is done and the Fed has declared more quantitative easing by pushing cash into the economy, inflation should start to kick in, and that will reverse the tide. Maybe think of it as a tsunami where the tide goes out before coming back with a vengance.
Check this video by Mike Maloney he put out a couple days ago. 15 mins.
Pinguinite posted on 2020-03-13 22:54:33 Reply Private Reply
#23: StraitGate To: Lod (#21)
That reminds me of when my wife and I bought our house years ago, and I called my dad to tell him.
"Dad, we bought a house. I sold some guns to get the down payment."
Dad was not pleased. "Son, we don't sell guns; we buy guns!"
Happily, I hadn't sold any of the guns that he had given me, only those I had bought after leaving home. I still have all the guns he gave me.
StraitGate posted on 2020-03-13 23:02:04 Reply Private Reply
#24: Esso To: Lod, 4um (#20)
Came up as one of those ads on the ZH homepage. The copper rounds caught my eye (Don't Tread On Me).
Esso posted on 2020-03-13 23:03:41 Reply Private Reply
#25: Lod To: StraitGate (#23)
Great dad and great story, thanks.
Lod posted on 2020-03-13 23:10:42 Reply Private Reply
#26: NeoconsNailed To: StraitGate (#23)
NeoconsNailed posted on 2020-03-13 23:12:16 Reply Private Reply
#27: hondo68 To: Lod, StraitGate, Anthem (#13)
They're both totally out of American Silver Eagles. They're very hard to find at the moment, all sold out!
Online dealers servers are crashing due to the overload of buyers.
Helicopter Money ain't working.
hondo68 posted on 2020-03-13 23:34:50 Reply Private Reply
#28: StraitGate To: Pinguinite (#22)
StraitGate posted on 2020-03-13 23:41:01 Reply Private Reply
#29: Lod To: hondo68 (#27)
Lod posted on 2020-03-13 23:43:00 Reply Private Reply
#30: StraitGate To: NeoconsNailed, Lod (#26)
Dad is an electrical engineer, retired from the power company, where he designed electrical power substations and distribution lines. After he recovered from a lengthy illness a couple of years ago, he and I went for a long celebratory ride out in the country. Lost 50 miles from nowhere in the middle of endless corn fields, I drove as he navigated us back home using power lines as trail markers and substations as landmarks.
StraitGate posted on 2020-03-14 00:01:33 Reply Private Reply
#31: BTP Holdings To: Lod (#21)
My Dad had a bag with a lot of 90% silver coins in it. He was living in the Senior building in town. He was getting coin magazines. But the big problem is he would not lock his apartment door. Some guy that worked there got in his apartment, found the coins and stole them. It was his own fault. :-/
BTP Holdings posted on 2020-03-14 00:12:09 Reply Private Reply
#32: Esso To: NeoconsNailed, 4um (#26)
My Dad probably did, but he died in 1976 fighting the (BS) Cold War.
Spent my 15th birthday at dear old Dad's funeral. Think I'm not the most effed' up survivalist you've ever met? Think again.
I don't scare anymore.
Esso posted on 2020-03-14 00:20:14 Reply Private Reply
#33: NeoconsNailed To: Esso (#32)
NeoconsNailed posted on 2020-03-14 00:22:14 Reply Private Reply
#34: Esso To: hondo68, 4um (#27)
Any special reason why you're focusing on American Eagles? Canadian Silver Maples & even private mint coins have the same .999 fineness.
Being in America, buying things with the USA stamp made me kinda nervous. (like they might want them back, again) That's why I bought Canadian, not too many Mounties in Indiana.
Check TexMetals.com for the government reporting requirements, kids.
Esso posted on 2020-03-14 00:31:30 Reply Private Reply
#35: Lod To: StraitGate (#30)
Enjoy your time(s) together, you'll have more great memories.
Lod posted on 2020-03-14 00:49:47 Reply Private Reply
#36: Esso To: NeoconsNailed, 4um (#33)
Not exactly, Dad got drafted out of high school and was put on one of Uncle Sam's boats to the Philippines to fight the yellow menace (I found some pics & letters after he died). He never talked about what happened.
He went to a local business college on the GI Bill and ended up at government defense joint as some kind of manager. A friend of mine (former best friend) worked at the same place years after Dad. He's gone now too (stroked out at work), but told me Dad was involved what was called EW1 (active electronic warfare).
To answer your question, no not Vietnam, commies in general, AKA, Russkies. Remember the whole Sputnik panic, etc.?
My Dad did what he was supposed to do when he came back from WWII, he got married, has his obligatory two and a half kids, and spent the rest of his life in quiet desperation. I'll never know what he aspired to, I was just always the kid that wasn't a problem for him.
When I said something about a half kid, I wasn't joking. My younger sister was born with Down's Syndrome and severely retarded and physically handicapped. Well, Dad marched on, fighting the commies, bringing his briefcase home, working well into the night, and patching the damned crack in the basement wall with hydraulic patching cement every time it rained and the water came in.
In hindsight, as a four year old, I think that was Dad'd "windmill to tilt" I think that was therapy for him.
As the Age of Aquarius moved on, my older sister became a hippy (slut), dropped out of HS, got further and further in trouble with the law.
FFW to 03 Apr 1976, Me, Mom, Dad and my handicapped sister were sitting at the dinner table having dinner (like that happens anymore). The (dial) phone on the wall rings, Mom answers and hands the phone to Dad. Apparently, older sister is in trouble with the law (from what I heard as a 14 y-o). Dad sat back down in his seat (back facing the wall. Took me years to figure out what that was about, duh).
Back to the story, Dad sat back down, put his head in his hands, and said, "That girl's ruined my life." I was sent to my room shortly after dinner. I stayed in there with my door shut as was expected. I'm going to omit some private details for decency's sake. My BR at the time had windows that faced the street. Regardless, Dad & me didn't get to lay on the kitchen/family room floor and watch M*A*S*H or whatever as usual.
The fire truck came, the police station wagon, I peeked out the curtains respecting my curfew, and Dad was off to the hospital. I don't remember much until Mom came home with a pastor in tow (I was in charge of my younger sister at the time, hell I was a man, as Dad used to say).
Dad was gone.
That's all I've got to say about that.
The next 30 or 40 years were exciting.
Esso posted on 2020-03-14 02:17:26 Reply Private Reply
#37: BTP Holdings To: Pinguinite (#22)
BTP Holdings posted on 2020-03-14 02:50:49 Reply Private Reply
#38: Pinguinite To: Lod (#21)
If you go to your grave without selling, then it means you saved money that you never used.
Pinguinite posted on 2020-03-14 05:25:45 Reply Private Reply
#39: Esso To: Pinguinite, Lod, 4um (#38)
Lod's got family, I think, I never asked. I don't have anyone, I sure as hell don't wanna be the richest bastard getting dumped wherever (MedCure).
I'll PM you.
Esso posted on 2020-03-14 05:53:54 Reply Private Reply
#40: Lod To: Pinguinite, Esso, StraitGate, BTP, estate planners, 4um (#39)
I've never seen a U-Haul behind a hearse.
Luke 12:48 - "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."
For those who want their last check to go to the funeral home, and plan for it to bounce; they've missed the mark.
Not preaching, just sharing my beliefs. fwiw
Lod posted on 2020-03-14 10:17:28 Reply Private Reply
#41: Liberator To: Lod (#40)
Ha - nice....Can't take it with you.
Luke 12:48 - "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."
and besides....
"But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust does corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal." -- Matthew 6:20
Liberator posted on 2020-03-14 10:45:06 Reply Private Reply
#42: NeoconsNailed To: Esso (#36)
I'm really sorry you had to go through all this.
NeoconsNailed posted on 2020-03-14 12:51:46 Reply Private Reply
#43: Esso To: NeoconsNailed (#42)
No, something criminal.
No, BFHA (big friggin' heart attack).
I dunno, they just do that here for medical emergencies.
Esso posted on 2020-03-14 14:57:52 Reply Private Reply
#44: NeoconsNailed To: Esso (#43)
How curious.
NeoconsNailed posted on 2020-03-14 15:37:14 Reply Private Reply
#45: hondo68 To: Esso (#34)
Just because they're probably the most popular gov minted coin. Shortages are across the board for the most part.
Got lots of other gov coins, Maples, Silver Krugerrands, Philharmonics, Kangaroos and such.
Was looking on SD Bullion at junk silver, you can still get dimes etc. but the premiums have been jacked up so high that they're more expensive than when silver was in the $18 range.
Shortage is driving the price UP.
Favorite designs are Krugerrands & Philharmonic because there's no gov propaganda on them, just Country, Year, Face Value, Weight & Purity.
hondo68 posted on 2020-03-14 15:42:35 Reply Private Reply
#46: Pinguinite To: hondo68 (#45)
Though liquidity shortages have been, for the last few days, bringing precious metal prices down. At least the electronic prices, which govern physical prices. Once clocks have been cleaned and the new money from the fed hits the markets... We should see a huge rise. Or so the theory goes.
Pinguinite posted on 2020-03-14 16:09:05 Reply Private Reply
#47: hondo68 To: Pinguinite (#46)
Oh yeah, FRN's are worth less & less every day, so it's gonna take more of them to buy an equivalent amount of PM's.
hondo68 posted on 2020-03-14 17:00:34 Reply Private Reply
#48: Pinguinite To: hondo68 (#47)
Pinguinite posted on 2020-03-14 17:07:07 Reply Private Reply
#49: BTP Holdings To: Pinguinite (#48)
The Crash of '29 caused the virtual disappearance of cash since the FED tightened the money supply so much that loans from banks were nearly impossible to obtain. Everything went down in price and deflation was a big problem.
I recall my maternal Grandfather had equipment in the basement so he could cobble shoes for the family, since shoe repairs were a luxury only for the wealthy. ;)
BTP Holdings posted on 2020-03-14 17:15:24 Reply Private Reply
#50: hondo68 To: Pinguinite (#48)
Can you buy a gallon of gas for a quarter like I did in the 60's?
No way! The dollar has gone down in value hugely over the years. You used to be able to actually buy something with a genuine copper penny, not today.
If you sold a silver quarter today, you'd have enough to buy that gallon of gas.
PM's hold their value, unlike US FRN's.
hondo68 posted on 2020-03-14 17:21:23 Reply Private Reply