We also need to ask the question, what EXACTLY is mass and energy?

Mass is matter

Energy is either velocity or electric charge

Until we get to the complex stuff. :)

But it still comes down to where did all that mass and energy come from

Cargo planes, ca 1943

Who or what created the matter in the first place?

Who or what created the empty space?

Why would either need to be created if they have always existed?

Who or what created God?

We can break down matter to atoms and subatomic particles.

But what ARE they really?...

We know we can describe what energy does, but what IS it exactly?

BTW, charge isn't energy, it's potential energy.

Charge produces an electrostatic field. Energy can be seen as light, electromagnetic radiation, heat, and force that causes a mass to accelerate.

Who or what created God?

That is the age old question.

Cargo planes, ca 1943

LOL!!

Who or what created God?

God self-exists...

Why would either need to be created if they have always existed?

You are ascribing God-like attributes to matter and space.

The pagans do that and worship such things.

I believe only God has "always existed"...and created both matter and space when He saw fit.

Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Ps.90:2

We can break down matter to atoms and subatomic particles.

Where did those come from? Did some diety create them?

God self-exists...

So does the universe. The universe self attests to me every moment that it exists.

You are ascribing God-like attributes to matter and space.

The pagans do that and worship such things.

I'll take that as a compliment, for now :)

Where did those come from? Did some diety create them?

Perhaps all that exists IS God.

I am prepared to throw the Bible out in the yard if it is not true.

I do not want to believe a lie...I want the truth.

In that we are the same.

But I do see flaws in the Bible. I do think it's generally a good book, at least the New Testament. The OT, however, to me has flaws that give it away as a product of man. I further see many elements that are characteristic of being a work of an ancient people that bear many of the same qualities of people in our current age. A people that seek relevance. They write about being blessed by the divine when things are well, and when things are not well, it's because they displeased God. Because having the power to displease a supreme creator is also a way of expressing the importance of oneself. I see writings that are designed to frighten and control the population just as our current gov does today with things like covid.

Dr. Fauci would have been a High Priest back then, going into the temple and coming out telling everyone what God's will was. People would go and listen to what's on the 3000 BC version of the internet, but unlike today, they still believed everything they were told. Well, people today still do that, don't they?

Controlling the masses through fear was as useful then as it is today. Fear of God's wrath or of dropping dead from a virus. Obey God (us) and you will be blessed. Mass media keeping people from rioting and revolting. All useful stuff. Nothing new under the sun.

That is what I see. And today people ascribe divine authority behind ancient writings really only because they are ancient. True, the Israelites did a meticulous job of replicating their writings, unlike the Greeks which had altered versions of their god's endeavors just as Marvel comics does today with gods like the Hulk and Spiderman. And for the same reason. Entertaining the masses. But Israelites considered their writings to be divine which is the reason they took so much care in replicating their scrolls. But that doesn't mean they were divine. And as I said, I see flaws in them that to me betray it's authenticity as God's perfect message.

I believe only God has "always existed"...and created both matter and space when He saw fit.

What if God IS all that exists, has ever existed, and will ever exist?

How would you know if that wasn't true?

Perhaps all that exists IS God.

Can I call my savior Olive?

That might upset a lot of people, so it starts tomorrow.

And as I said, I see flaws in them that to me betray it's authenticity as God's perfect message.

Especially in passages that order the Jews to "smite" their enemies, men, women, children, and livestock.

Seems more of a order from men than an order from any sort of supreme being.

Controlling the masses through fear was as useful then as it is today. Fear of God's wrath or of dropping dead from a virus. Obey God (us) and you will be blessed. Mass media keeping people from rioting and revolting. All useful stuff. Nothing new under the sun.

Amen. DoublePlusGood on your humorous writing style.

Perhaps all that exists IS God.

That's called pan theology.

What if God IS all that exists, has ever existed, and will ever exist?

How would you know if that wasn't true?

We exist, don't we?

And we are certainly not God.

That's called pan theology.

But if God created Everything, wouldn't Everything equal God?

Or are there Creator bonus points? :)

But if God created Everything, wouldn't Everything equal God?

Or are there Creator bonus points? :)

No.

It means that God is the Creator, and "everything" else is His creation.

But I do see flaws in the Bible.

I see problem passages in the Bible, but not flaws/error.

It means that God is the Creator, and "everything" else is His creation.

But how could God exist if nothing existed?

[edit] I know, God just exists... :)

But how could God exist if nothing existed?

As I've mentioned God self-exists.

He is eternal...without beginning or end.

If this were not true He wouldn't be God.

[edit] I know, God just exists... :)

Now you're gettin' it!

You'll be a theologian in no time.

He is eternal...without beginning or end.

We reach!

Omniscience: God's ability to know everything from beginning to end in one thought

Omnipresence: God's presence everywhere at all times, the totality of His being fills the universe

Merciful: God's quality of showing mercy

Loving: God's quality of love that is selfless, unconditional, and sacrificial

Sovereign: God's position of power and authority over all things things

Immutable: God's quality of being unchanging in his character, will, and promises

Self-sufficient: God's quality of possessing infinite riches of being, wisdom, goodness, and power, complete in every way

Holy: God's quality of being perfectly holy

Just: God's quality of being perfectly just

Good: God's quality of being perfectly good

Gracious: God's quality of being perfectly gracious

Faithful: God's quality of being perfectly faithful

Truthful: God's quality of being perfectly truthful

I am not Herbert

Been a long ride, brutha.

Skepticism About Darwinian Evolution Grows as Over 1000 Scientists From Around the World Declare Their Doubts About Darwinism

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/skepticism-about-darwinian- evolution-grows-as-over-1000-scientists-from-around-the-world-declare- their-doubts-about-darwinism-300790168.html

WASHINGTON, Feb. 5, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- Over 1000 doctoral scientists from around the world have signed a statement publicly expressing their skepticism about the contemporary theory of Darwinian evolution, according to Discovery Institute. The statement, located online at www.dissentfromdarwin.org, reads: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

"Because no scientist can show how Darwin's mechanism can produce the complexity of life, every scientist should be skeptical," said biologist Douglas Axe, director of the Biologic Institute. "The fact that most won't admit to this exposes the unhealthy effect of peer pressure on scientific discourse."

I've not kept up on my Science Digest subscription, but don't supernovas collapse into some sort of density pit?

My understanding is that basic stars are made of hydrogen which fuse into helium. After the hydrogen runs out, the helium then fuses into iron and once there's too much iron then it explodes in a supernova. In the explosion all the other elements are made instantly. All the material is blasted out into the surrounding space where it can form into rocks and such and planets.

Maybe there's something special about iron.

Who or what created God?

We do not know. And it's okay not to know. What we do know is that we are here and that we were created in some way. So just because we don't understand the creation of all things including God doesn't mean God doesn't exist.

Ray Comfort

I only know his name.

I did hear that he is expecting a revival because of the election.

That did it for me.

As far as I'm concerned the churches are completely fallen away and spued out...as delusional as the world...believing every lie they hear. And that would include Ray Comfort.

Chances of revival are slim to none...

Especially in passages that order the Jews to "smite" their enemies, men, women, children, and livestock.

Seems more of a order from men than an order from any sort of supreme being.

That would be one of them yes. Christian theology really has to do some backbending to explain this, basically in saying that since God created all of us and owns all of us he can do anything with us as he pleases. Okay maybe but it's still cruel as hell and simply isn't consistent with the New testament.

Primordial black holes and the Big Bang

Gravitational collapse requires great density. In the current epoch of the universe these high densities are found only in stars, but in the early universe shortly after the Big Bang densities were much greater, possibly allowing for the creation of black holes. High density alone is not enough to allow black hole formation since a uniform mass distribution will not allow the mass to bunch up. In order for primordial black holes to have formed in such a dense medium, there must have been initial density perturbations that could then grow under their own gravity

High-energy collisions

Gravitational collapse is not the only process that could create black holes. In principle, black holes could be formed in high-energy collisions that achieve sufficient density. As of 2002, no such events have been detected, either directly or indirectly as a deficiency of the mass balance in particle accelerator experiments.[132] This suggests that there must be a lower limit for the mass of black holes. Theoretically, this boundary is expected to lie around the Planck mass, where quantum effects are expected to invalidate the predictions of general relativity.[133]

This would put the creation of black holes firmly out of reach of any high-energy process occurring on or near the Earth. However, certain developments in quantum gravity suggest that the minimum black hole mass could be much lower: some braneworld scenarios for example put the boundary as low as 1 TeV/c2.[134] This would make it conceivable for micro black holes to be created in the high-energy collisions that occur when cosmic rays hit the Earth's atmosphere, or possibly in the Large Hadron Collider at CERN. These theories are very speculative, and the creation of black holes in these processes is deemed unlikely by many specialists.[135] Even if micro black holes could be formed, it is expected that they would evaporate in about 10−25 seconds, posing no threat to the Earth.[136]

This stuff is way beyond my pay grade, but if black holes exist they have either always existed or more likely had an origin.

I see problem passages in the Bible, but not flaws/error.

What's an example of a "problem passage"? Just so I understand the difference.

Had Israel obeyed, the world would not be suffering under the Edomites as we are today.

Remember Noah's flood? God destroyed everything on the earth.

Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? God destroyed everyone in those cities.

And He will kill off His creation again as we head to Armageddon.

God is perfectly just.

Big Bounce

The Big Bounce hypothesis is a cosmological model for the origin of the known universe. It was originally suggested as a phase of the cyclic model or oscillatory universe interpretation of the Big Bang, where the first cosmological event was the result of the collapse of a previous universe.

We don't shy away from them at all.

Will try to round up some examples after chores on the am

Edit: Perhaps you could provide an example of a flaw you found.

Had Israel obeyed, the world would not be suffering under the Edomites as we are today.

Sounds like it's a case of the ends justifying the means. That is a philosophical point that is soundly rejected under Christianity, is it not?

Sounds like it's a case of the ends justifying the means.

It's not that at all.

It's God's ability to see the future and to lessen the pain of future generations.

This stuff is way beyond my pay grade

Perhaps you could provide an example of a flaw you found.

Sure. Does God get angry? You posted a bunch of attributes about God a little bit ago. God knows everything and God is all powerful. Can you explain to me how it is possible for God to ever become angry or even jealous?

Say you go to work one day and you see a co-worker who is bubbling with rage. The Christian response to that would be to immediately start praying for this person. And I agree that's reasonable. But what is anger really? I say anger comes from insecurity. Something bad happens and it's beyond our control.

So when is God ever out of control? When does God ever suffer from insecurity? When has he ever surprised about something bad happening? And what could ever possibly happen that God couldn't recover from? What could ever happen that God would need to recover from?

I say the concept of an angry or jealous God is inconsistent with the attributes you listed above. It just doesn't fit. What does fit is that leaders would tell people that God is angry, jealous and wrathful. And they would do it as a means of controlling people.

I don't think it's possible for God to be wrathful or jealous. These are human attributes that are painted on to God that are not real.

It's God's ability to see the future and to lessen the pain of future generations.

Done at the expense of a people? Sounds like another way of saying the ends justifies the means.

I say the concept of an angry or jealous God is inconsistent with the attributes you listed above. It just doesn't fit. What does fit is that leaders would tell people that God is angry, jealous and wrathful. And they would do it as a means of controlling people.

Well put, thank you.

If I was omnipotent I wouldn't really much care what mortals thought of me. :)

I wouldn't really much care what mortals thought of me.

The Lord Commander Kimberly might smite you for that.

MD = God

If I was omnipotent I wouldn't really much care what mortals thought of me. :)

The Greek deities were very concerned about what people thought. And we know that from movies like Clash of the Titans and Immortals.