Guest says Big Bang is Nonsense

The Big Bang Theory is the rejection of God.

1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

--Psalm 14:1-3

So Tucker's guest is correct...the Big Bang Theory is nonsense...foolishness.

Even more so for the Theory of Evolution.

He thinks the world will come back to God.

But which God?

The "man of sin", the "son of perdition" will declare himself God.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

--2 Thessalonians 2:3-5

The Big Bang Theory is the rejection of God.

Why?

The Big Bang theory basically embodies the very words of Genesis: "Let there be light". Does in not?

Why would you denigrate any scientific explanation for whatever method by which our universe was created? Is it a foregone conclusion that the creation of the universe was done with some form of divine magic that can never be understood in any way?

The Big Bang theory basically embodies the very words of Genesis: "Let there be light". Does in not?

Actually, the big bang theory does not embody the words "Let there be light"

The big bang theory begins with matter already in existence, super compressed by gravity, which then explodes.

In the Genesis account God speaks the universe into existence...ex nihilo...out of nothing.

A personal, knowable God vs. "some form of divine magic"

This is the debate.

The big bang theory begins with matter already in existence, super compressed by gravity, which then explodes.

Not necessarily. And in fact, I don't think that's the theory at all as it implies a super compressed mass pre-existed the BB. Given the current belief that space and time are related, I understand the BB theory to mark the creation of both.

It is reasonable to believe the universe was created by some means, and it could have been created by some event that happened in an alternate dimension, something outside of this universe. We could call that event an act of God, which is fine, so it doesn't mean the BB theory is rejecting God.

But in any event, & more to the point, we can agree we DO exist and the universe we are in DOES exist. If the BB theory is eventually rejected by scientific community and an alternate theory put int its place, would you necessarily reject that theory as well, just because it is a product of man?

Also, why does being wrong in scientific understanding of a matter equate to rejecting God? We are all wrong about various things in life.

why does being wrong in scientific understanding of a matter equate to rejecting God?

The BB denies that God has communicated to us, that He has told us clearly how He created the universe.

The BB may pay lip service to "God" but adamantly denies that He has intentionally instructed us on His method* of creation.

As to rejecting God, try being a Christian professor (or student) in a secular university. You'll find out immediately who is narrow minded and vindictive.

*(edit: and reason!)

Guest says Big Bang is Nonsense

The Big Bang Theory is the rejection of God.

1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

--Psalm 14:1-3

So Tucker's guest is correct...the Big Bang Theory is nonsense...foolishness.

Even more so for the Theory of Evolution.

Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

biblehub.com/romans/14-11.htm

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. / For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. / The last enemy to be destroyed is death. ...

Colossians 1:16-18 For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. / He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. / And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence.

biblehub.com/philippians/2-10.htm

livingwaters.com/store/ot...spanish/the-atheist-test/

And in fact, I don't think that's the theory at all as it implies a super compressed mass pre-existed the BB.

From NASA.gov...

The big bang is how astronomers explain the way the universe began. It is the idea that the universe began as just a single point, then expanded and stretched to grow as large as it is right now—and it is still stretching!

--https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/big-bang/en/

At NASA, they describe the universe beginning from a single point.

NASA, by the way, told us they went to the moon...but can't go back again because they lost the data on how they did it.

A few years ago we were told to "trust the science".

Well, I rejected the science, for many reasons, none of them particularly Biblical.

I rejected the science because I did not trust the ethics of the scientists, nor did I trust the intentions of those who were behind the scientists...the CDC, the pharmaceutical companies, the WHO, etc.

And I reject the Big Bang theory for pretty much the same reasons :)

It is reasonable to believe the universe was created by some means, and it could have been created by some event that happened in an alternate dimension, something outside of this universe. We could call that event an act of God, which is fine, so it doesn't mean the BB theory is rejecting God.

Exactly Neil.

Some people still think the earth is flat and the stars don't exist, because it doesn't mention anything otherwise in the bible.

He has told us clearly how He created the universe.

Ok, tell us how EXACTLY the Universe was created if you think you have the answer.

I liken the big bang theory and the theory of evolution to someone looking at a Michelangelo sculpture and saying, "Wow, a chunk of marble exploded and created a statue"

Good one!!

btw, I like Ray Comfort a lot, but be careful, he's a dispensationalist, and some fault him for being too works-based. I was introduced to him by the original "Atheist Test" tract given away by an artist creating sand sculptures of Jesus on a Maryland beach, many, many years ago

Ok, tell us how EXACTLY the Universe was created if you think you have the answer.

I don't have the answer, but I trust the Biblical account...

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen1.1

A few years ago we were told to "trust the science".

And those people were liars, they didn't reveal the actual science which was 100% contrary to their false claims.

Science is the study of nature, and that includes all that exists.

Do you not believe in Chemistry, Math, or Physics?

but I trust the Biblical account...

And what IS that account?

Are you the one who would say that the statue was created by an explosion?

but I trust the Biblical account... And what IS that account?

God created the heavens and the earth...just as an artist creates a work of art.

Simple.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Where is heaven? And he ONLY created earth, not the planets, stars, moons, etc.?

The big bang is a theory that DOES fit into the biblical words of "let there be light".

HOW that light was created is still a mystery and up to debate.

Where is heaven? And he ONLY created earth, not the planets, stars, moons, etc.?

Did you ever go to Sunday School when you were a kid?

Here ya go...

www.biblegateway.com/pass...h=Genesis%201& version=KJV

The BB denies that God has communicated to us, that He has told us clearly how He created the universe.

I would say the BB theory is completely silent about any possible divine communication. And "how" God may have created the universe is far from clear. Simply speaking it into existence is, at best, a very obtuse "method". Certainly it doesn't work for the rest of us.

The Big Bang Theory is the rejection of God.

Not if one believes God created the universe via Big Bang.

Even more so for the Theory of Evolution.

I consider it an assumption that evolution would need to operate by chance.

HOW that light was created is still a mystery and up to debate.

It's not a mystery to me.

Are you saying God cannot create light with just a command?

Let me try to explain.

For one, the words "God created man in his own image" are NOT what is written in the ancient Hebrew.

The original Hebrew says "God (plural form) created Man (as in Mankind) in THEIR own likeness. Male and female they were created".

Not written in Genesis is the fact they viewed God as male and female, and when God (they) joined together they created a new Universe. ALL life is either male or female, in the likeness of God.

Some call it the Duality of Nature.

What that means is that God exists beyond our Universe, is in fact ALL Universes that have ever existed, exist today, and will ever exist.

Simply speaking it into existence is, at best, a very obtuse "method".

Why? It is perfectly in keeping with God's abilities.

Certainly it doesn't work for the rest of us.

We are created, not the Creator.

It's not a mystery to me.

Then what is light if you know how it was created.

www.biblegateway.com/pass...h=Genesis%201& version=KJV

So that doesn't answer the question. WHERE is heaven?

It is the idea that the universe began as just a single point, then expanded and stretched to grow as large as it is right now—and it is still stretching!

Even this statement does not say that single point was the compressed mass of what is now all the mass in the universe.

It could have been a divine event caused by the instant injection of mass that caused the creation of our universe. Some event outside of our universe that caused this universe to be created. In fact, I don't see how anyone believing in an ultimate supreme God could argue that our current universe contains God Himself. God MUST be beyond our universe.

I liken the big bang theory and the theory of evolution to someone looking at a Michelangelo sculpture and saying, "Wow, a chunk of marble exploded and created a statue"

You have no room to accept the possibility that there could have been divine power and design behind either the BB or Evolution?

Simply speaking it into existence is, at best, a very obtuse "method".

If one wanted to get technical, one could wonder how anyone could speak if there was no air.. :)

in THEIR own likeness

A reference to the triune nature of God...Father, Son, Holy Spirit

in the likeness of God.

What a wonderful truth. God made us to keep Him company (even though He is complete unto Himself). He will be familiar to us and easy to be with!

You have no room to accept the possibility that there could have been divine power and design behind either the BB or Evolution?

God would have told us if that were the case.

God cannot lie. It is impossible for Him to lie.

God is male and female (Father and Holy Spirit), His Son (actually our Universe) is the offspring.

You can't trust mistranslated texts from a few thousand years ago to be 100% accurate or complete.

Some can't think beyond what they are told.

Not true.

God says, "Prove all things"...which includes proving what the Bible says.

Proving stuff requires a lot of thought.

Why? It is perfectly in keeping with God's abilities.

His ability is not in question. The method is. And apparently you reject the possibility that the method God used included a Big Bang.

His Son (actually our Universe)

Show me the verse that says that.

God would have told us if that were the case.

Does God explain nuclear physics, chemistry, or math anywhere in the bible?

Do you think ancient Hebrews who wrote the bible would have known anything about those things?

God didn't write anything by the way, it is the word of the Jews.

And apparently you reject the possibility that the method God used included a Big Bang.

Certainly God could start with a bang, but He says He started with a word.

Show me the verse that says that.

Show me the verse that defines light.

He started with a word.

And how is a word defined?

He started with a word.

And how is a word defined? In computer science it's 16 bits.. :)

Does God explain nuclear physics, chemistry, or math anywhere in the bible?

He gave us a mind, and a physical body to observe physics, chemistry, math...nothing wrong with that.

Many Christians are physicist, chemists, etc.

I study cows...I learned that they did not evolve :)

Show me the verse that says that.

Show me the verse that defines light.

You first :)

I don't think that's the theory at all as it implies a super compressed mass pre-existed the BB.

I am entertaining the theory that there have been an infinite number of Big Bangs, where all matter clumps up due to gravity over time (think black holes, etc) until it reaches critical mass, much like atomic bomb.

Then the Big Bang.

Matter is hurled into matterless dimension aka empty space, which must exist simply because it exists. If it had matter it would not be matterless, now, would it?

Matter expands into empty space until intertia from Big Bang is overcome by gravity.

Then the entirety of matter starts condensing, once again becoming a singular collection of matter, primed to explode.

Expand, contract, ad infinitum.

God would have told us if that were the case.

I don't see why he'd be required or compelled to do so.

God cannot lie. It is impossible for Him to lie.

Where does the Bible say the BB & evolution did not occur? If the Bible is silent on those matters, then it's not contradicting those theories. I could accept the Genesis 1 story of creation contradicts evolution (though it does not say evolution could not commence after creation is done) but Genesis seems to be generally in line with the BB theory.

Isn't there a verse that says something like "It's the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the glory of man to seek out a matter?"

Seems that is an endorsement of science.

Looked it up: Proverbs 25:2. I did a pretty good job of recalling it, I'd say.

As I said earlier, it's all a matter of the fact that God DID NOT write ANYTHING, the bible is merely the musings of ancient people who tried to explain all that exists.

They did get some things right though, perhaps from some ancient spiritual knowledge that exists beyond that which is explainable.

Matter expands into empty space

Who or what created the matter in the first place?

Who or what created the empty space?

Expand, contract, ad infinitum.

Possible, but where did that mass come from? How was it created?

Who or what created the matter in the first place?

Funny how we both came up with the same question looking at it from two different angles.. :)

How do YOU know the idea God used wasn't something similar?

From the Bible...

And God said,

"Said" means speaking, at least to me.

You first :)

You said it's all explained in the bible.

God says, "Prove all things"...which includes proving what the Bible says.

Or proving that what the Bible says is not true?

It's actually improper scientific method to start with the assumption that something is true, then proceed to search for evidence supporting that conclusion. Do that and I promise you you will succeed. "Seek and ye shall find" as the Bible quotes Jesus as saying and it is true, particularly when applied to human psychology.

As I see it, if the Bible really IS the Word of God, then it will pass any and all tests put to it. We should, therefore, be completely fearless putting it through completely unbiased testing. We do NOT need to start with any foregone conclusion that it is completely perfect as a divine work and then seek to prove it. Does the Bible need a crutch? A head start? A cheat sheet? I say no.

Give the Bible complete and unbiased tests. Fair tests, but unbiased tests.

"It's the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the glory of man to seek out a matter?"

That's a cool verse!

You should see what I'm wrestling with these past many years.

Simply said, God wants us searching, knocking, seeking, waiting...

Keeps us involved with Him...but not always fun.

Or proving that what the Bible says is not true?

As I see it, if the Bible really IS the Word of God, then it will pass any and all tests put to it.

I am prepared to throw the Bible out in the yard if it is not true.

I do not want to believe a lie...I want the truth.

Uh huh. Relying on English words to reflect spiritual Hebrew

I can do Hebrew...

Plus, I have God's Spirit to help me understand.

It is often a painful process.

I study cows...I learned that they did not evolve :)

I'm pretty sure if you lived a million years you'd see that they do in fact change over time.

In fact, if you look at skeletons of modern birds and compared them to skeletons of dinosaurs, they are quite similar. Which would mean modern birds are most likely descended from dinosaurs.

I can do Hebrew...

Then you should know that what I've said concerning the mistranslation of Genesis is an absolute fact,

Do you also know Gematria?

Plus, I have God's Spirit to help me understand.

I could make the same claim.

Possible, but where did that mass come from? How was it created?

That is why an infinite number of cycles is crucial to that theory. If I claimed, like, nine, the obvious next question would be "what happened before that, where did matter come from?" to which I am at a complete loss to give an intelligent answer.

I am entertaining the theory that there have been an infinite number of Big Bangs, where all matter clumps up due to gravity over time (think black holes, etc) until it reaches critical mass, much like atomic bomb.

I had been perplexed about where the energy comes from in a supernova explosion. Stars fuse from hydrogen to helium to iron. And apparently putting too much iron in one spot causes the greatest explosion in the universe (after the BB). Why? Still not completely clear on the physics but it seems an understandable explanation is there.

So a giga supernova is what you suggest. Maybe, but it would need to bypass the supernova explosive stage somehow.

But yes, if a "critical mass" is part of the equation then it suggests that not all mass in the universe need be involved. If that's the case, I expect conventional science to find matter that pre-existed the perceived date of the BB. That would be an endorsement of the long discarded "Steady State" theory.

Alternate theory says there may be many more BB events that occurred throughout the mega-cosmos. E.g. perhaps one occurred 100 billion light years away. We'd have no means of detecting it as light from it wouldn't be anywhere near our own BB bubble. Could be thousands or trillions of others out there.

And God could be behind each and every one of them.

I am at a complete loss to give an intelligent answer.

And that is where we all are. The BB theory doesn't explain that either.

So a giga supernova is what you suggest. Maybe, but it would need to bypass the supernova explosive stage somehow.

I've not kept up on my Science Digest subscription, but don't supernovas collapse into some sort of density pit?

That's a cool verse!

To me, it's an endorsement of the sciences. So to conclude that believing the BB theory is rejecting God... doesn't work. Not for me. It is our destiny to ask questions and seek answers. That's what science... REAL science, does.

And I see both BB and evolution falling into that category. It is legitimate research. Not liking the answers is fine, but that's NOT science. The truth doesn't need any help to stand up.

E=mc² they say.

Which means the amount of energy available (in Joules) of mass is equal to the constant of the speed of light squared times the amount of mass (in kilograms).

But WHAT exactly are they?

And that is where we all are. The BB theory doesn't explain that either.

BB explains why galaxies are hurtling away from us and spinning!

We also need to ask the question, what EXACTLY is mass and energy?

Mass is matter

Energy is either velocity or electric charge

Until we get to the complex stuff. :)

But it still comes down to where did all that mass and energy come from

Cargo planes, ca 1943

Who or what created the matter in the first place?

Who or what created the empty space?

Why would either need to be created if they have always existed?

Who or what created God?

We can break down matter to atoms and subatomic particles.

But what ARE they really?...

We know we can describe what energy does, but what IS it exactly?

BTW, charge isn't energy, it's potential energy.

Charge produces an electrostatic field. Energy can be seen as light, electromagnetic radiation, heat, and force that causes a mass to accelerate.

Who or what created God?

That is the age old question.

Cargo planes, ca 1943

LOL!!

Who or what created God?

God self-exists...

Why would either need to be created if they have always existed?

You are ascribing God-like attributes to matter and space.

The pagans do that and worship such things.

I believe only God has "always existed"...and created both matter and space when He saw fit.

Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Ps.90:2

We can break down matter to atoms and subatomic particles.

Where did those come from? Did some diety create them?

God self-exists...

So does the universe. The universe self attests to me every moment that it exists.

You are ascribing God-like attributes to matter and space.

The pagans do that and worship such things.

I'll take that as a compliment, for now :)

Where did those come from? Did some diety create them?

Perhaps all that exists IS God.

I am prepared to throw the Bible out in the yard if it is not true.

I do not want to believe a lie...I want the truth.

In that we are the same.

But I do see flaws in the Bible. I do think it's generally a good book, at least the New Testament. The OT, however, to me has flaws that give it away as a product of man. I further see many elements that are characteristic of being a work of an ancient people that bear many of the same qualities of people in our current age. A people that seek relevance. They write about being blessed by the divine when things are well, and when things are not well, it's because they displeased God. Because having the power to displease a supreme creator is also a way of expressing the importance of oneself. I see writings that are designed to frighten and control the population just as our current gov does today with things like covid.

Dr. Fauci would have been a High Priest back then, going into the temple and coming out telling everyone what God's will was. People would go and listen to what's on the 3000 BC version of the internet, but unlike today, they still believed everything they were told. Well, people today still do that, don't they?

Controlling the masses through fear was as useful then as it is today. Fear of God's wrath or of dropping dead from a virus. Obey God (us) and you will be blessed. Mass media keeping people from rioting and revolting. All useful stuff. Nothing new under the sun.

That is what I see. And today people ascribe divine authority behind ancient writings really only because they are ancient. True, the Israelites did a meticulous job of replicating their writings, unlike the Greeks which had altered versions of their god's endeavors just as Marvel comics does today with gods like the Hulk and Spiderman. And for the same reason. Entertaining the masses. But Israelites considered their writings to be divine which is the reason they took so much care in replicating their scrolls. But that doesn't mean they were divine. And as I said, I see flaws in them that to me betray it's authenticity as God's perfect message.

I believe only God has "always existed"...and created both matter and space when He saw fit.

What if God IS all that exists, has ever existed, and will ever exist?

How would you know if that wasn't true?

Perhaps all that exists IS God.

Can I call my savior Olive?

That might upset a lot of people, so it starts tomorrow.

And as I said, I see flaws in them that to me betray it's authenticity as God's perfect message.

Especially in passages that order the Jews to "smite" their enemies, men, women, children, and livestock.

Seems more of a order from men than an order from any sort of supreme being.

Controlling the masses through fear was as useful then as it is today. Fear of God's wrath or of dropping dead from a virus. Obey God (us) and you will be blessed. Mass media keeping people from rioting and revolting. All useful stuff. Nothing new under the sun.

Amen. DoublePlusGood on your humorous writing style.

Perhaps all that exists IS God.

That's called pan theology.

What if God IS all that exists, has ever existed, and will ever exist?

How would you know if that wasn't true?

We exist, don't we?

And we are certainly not God.

That's called pan theology.

But if God created Everything, wouldn't Everything equal God?

Or are there Creator bonus points? :)

But if God created Everything, wouldn't Everything equal God?

Or are there Creator bonus points? :)

No.

It means that God is the Creator, and "everything" else is His creation.

But I do see flaws in the Bible.

I see problem passages in the Bible, but not flaws/error.

It means that God is the Creator, and "everything" else is His creation.

But how could God exist if nothing existed?

[edit] I know, God just exists... :)

But how could God exist if nothing existed?

As I've mentioned God self-exists.

He is eternal...without beginning or end.

If this were not true He wouldn't be God.

[edit] I know, God just exists... :)

Now you're gettin' it!

You'll be a theologian in no time.

He is eternal...without beginning or end.

We reach!

Omniscience: God's ability to know everything from beginning to end in one thought

Omnipresence: God's presence everywhere at all times, the totality of His being fills the universe

Merciful: God's quality of showing mercy

Loving: God's quality of love that is selfless, unconditional, and sacrificial

Sovereign: God's position of power and authority over all things things

Immutable: God's quality of being unchanging in his character, will, and promises

Self-sufficient: God's quality of possessing infinite riches of being, wisdom, goodness, and power, complete in every way

Holy: God's quality of being perfectly holy

Just: God's quality of being perfectly just

Good: God's quality of being perfectly good

Gracious: God's quality of being perfectly gracious

Faithful: God's quality of being perfectly faithful

Truthful: God's quality of being perfectly truthful

I am not Herbert

Been a long ride, brutha.

Skepticism About Darwinian Evolution Grows as Over 1000 Scientists From Around the World Declare Their Doubts About Darwinism

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/skepticism-about-darwinian- evolution-grows-as-over-1000-scientists-from-around-the-world-declare- their-doubts-about-darwinism-300790168.html

WASHINGTON, Feb. 5, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- Over 1000 doctoral scientists from around the world have signed a statement publicly expressing their skepticism about the contemporary theory of Darwinian evolution, according to Discovery Institute. The statement, located online at www.dissentfromdarwin.org, reads: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

"Because no scientist can show how Darwin's mechanism can produce the complexity of life, every scientist should be skeptical," said biologist Douglas Axe, director of the Biologic Institute. "The fact that most won't admit to this exposes the unhealthy effect of peer pressure on scientific discourse."

I've not kept up on my Science Digest subscription, but don't supernovas collapse into some sort of density pit?

My understanding is that basic stars are made of hydrogen which fuse into helium. After the hydrogen runs out, the helium then fuses into iron and once there's too much iron then it explodes in a supernova. In the explosion all the other elements are made instantly. All the material is blasted out into the surrounding space where it can form into rocks and such and planets.

Maybe there's something special about iron.

Who or what created God?

We do not know. And it's okay not to know. What we do know is that we are here and that we were created in some way. So just because we don't understand the creation of all things including God doesn't mean God doesn't exist.

Ray Comfort

I only know his name.

I did hear that he is expecting a revival because of the election.

That did it for me.

As far as I'm concerned the churches are completely fallen away and spued out...as delusional as the world...believing every lie they hear. And that would include Ray Comfort.

Chances of revival are slim to none...

Especially in passages that order the Jews to "smite" their enemies, men, women, children, and livestock.

Seems more of a order from men than an order from any sort of supreme being.

That would be one of them yes. Christian theology really has to do some backbending to explain this, basically in saying that since God created all of us and owns all of us he can do anything with us as he pleases. Okay maybe but it's still cruel as hell and simply isn't consistent with the New testament.

Primordial black holes and the Big Bang

Gravitational collapse requires great density. In the current epoch of the universe these high densities are found only in stars, but in the early universe shortly after the Big Bang densities were much greater, possibly allowing for the creation of black holes. High density alone is not enough to allow black hole formation since a uniform mass distribution will not allow the mass to bunch up. In order for primordial black holes to have formed in such a dense medium, there must have been initial density perturbations that could then grow under their own gravity

High-energy collisions

Gravitational collapse is not the only process that could create black holes. In principle, black holes could be formed in high-energy collisions that achieve sufficient density. As of 2002, no such events have been detected, either directly or indirectly as a deficiency of the mass balance in particle accelerator experiments.[132] This suggests that there must be a lower limit for the mass of black holes. Theoretically, this boundary is expected to lie around the Planck mass, where quantum effects are expected to invalidate the predictions of general relativity.[133]

This would put the creation of black holes firmly out of reach of any high-energy process occurring on or near the Earth. However, certain developments in quantum gravity suggest that the minimum black hole mass could be much lower: some braneworld scenarios for example put the boundary as low as 1 TeV/c2.[134] This would make it conceivable for micro black holes to be created in the high-energy collisions that occur when cosmic rays hit the Earth's atmosphere, or possibly in the Large Hadron Collider at CERN. These theories are very speculative, and the creation of black holes in these processes is deemed unlikely by many specialists.[135] Even if micro black holes could be formed, it is expected that they would evaporate in about 10−25 seconds, posing no threat to the Earth.[136]

This stuff is way beyond my pay grade, but if black holes exist they have either always existed or more likely had an origin.

I see problem passages in the Bible, but not flaws/error.

What's an example of a "problem passage"? Just so I understand the difference.

Had Israel obeyed, the world would not be suffering under the Edomites as we are today.

Remember Noah's flood? God destroyed everything on the earth.

Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? God destroyed everyone in those cities.

And He will kill off His creation again as we head to Armageddon.

God is perfectly just.

Big Bounce

The Big Bounce hypothesis is a cosmological model for the origin of the known universe. It was originally suggested as a phase of the cyclic model or oscillatory universe interpretation of the Big Bang, where the first cosmological event was the result of the collapse of a previous universe.

We don't shy away from them at all.

Will try to round up some examples after chores on the am

Edit: Perhaps you could provide an example of a flaw you found.

Had Israel obeyed, the world would not be suffering under the Edomites as we are today.

Sounds like it's a case of the ends justifying the means. That is a philosophical point that is soundly rejected under Christianity, is it not?

Sounds like it's a case of the ends justifying the means.

It's not that at all.

It's God's ability to see the future and to lessen the pain of future generations.

This stuff is way beyond my pay grade

Perhaps you could provide an example of a flaw you found.

Sure. Does God get angry? You posted a bunch of attributes about God a little bit ago. God knows everything and God is all powerful. Can you explain to me how it is possible for God to ever become angry or even jealous?

Say you go to work one day and you see a co-worker who is bubbling with rage. The Christian response to that would be to immediately start praying for this person. And I agree that's reasonable. But what is anger really? I say anger comes from insecurity. Something bad happens and it's beyond our control.

So when is God ever out of control? When does God ever suffer from insecurity? When has he ever surprised about something bad happening? And what could ever possibly happen that God couldn't recover from? What could ever happen that God would need to recover from?

I say the concept of an angry or jealous God is inconsistent with the attributes you listed above. It just doesn't fit. What does fit is that leaders would tell people that God is angry, jealous and wrathful. And they would do it as a means of controlling people.

I don't think it's possible for God to be wrathful or jealous. These are human attributes that are painted on to God that are not real.

It's God's ability to see the future and to lessen the pain of future generations.

Done at the expense of a people? Sounds like another way of saying the ends justifies the means.

I say the concept of an angry or jealous God is inconsistent with the attributes you listed above. It just doesn't fit. What does fit is that leaders would tell people that God is angry, jealous and wrathful. And they would do it as a means of controlling people.

Well put, thank you.

If I was omnipotent I wouldn't really much care what mortals thought of me. :)

I wouldn't really much care what mortals thought of me.

The Lord Commander Kimberly might smite you for that.

MD = God

If I was omnipotent I wouldn't really much care what mortals thought of me. :)

The Greek deities were very concerned about what people thought. And we know that from movies like Clash of the Titans and Immortals.

Done at the expense of a people?

Done 𝙗𝙚𝙘𝙖𝙪𝙨𝙚 of a people, and the choices they made.

They used their free will to go to the furthest place of human depravity.

There were consequences for their choices...and there are consequences for the choices of the Israelites in not following God's directive.

We are living in those consequences today.

How do you like those Rothschilds, eh?

Does God get angry?

Yes. The Bible is filled with examples of God's anger.

So when is God ever out of control? When does God ever suffer from insecurity? When has he ever surprised about something bad happening?

Never.

And what could ever possibly happen that God couldn't recover from? What could ever happen that God would need to recover from?

Question not understood.

I say the concept of an angry or jealous God is inconsistent with the attributes you listed above.

His anger falls under the attribute of being just, requiring justice. And also love.

What does fit is that leaders would tell people that God is angry, jealous and wrathful. And they would do it as a means of controlling people.

Nope. The leaders didn't have to tell the people of God's anger...everyone felt it immediately and personally. God would flat out kill scores of people until they came back into line.

I don't think it's possible for God to be wrathful or jealous. These are human attributes that are painted on to God that are not real.

But didn't God say we are made in His image? You have emotions because God has emotions.

I say the concept of an angry or jealous God is inconsistent with the attributes you listed above. It just doesn't fit. What does fit is that leaders would tell people that God is angry, jealous and wrathful. And they would do it as a means of controlling people. Well put, thank you.

All you and Ping need are a couple of spoiled brats running around...then you'd understand God's anger perfectly :)

Child to parent: "I don't like you. You are not my boss. Ima tear some sh*t up".

Parent to child: "O, h3ll nah. Not today, Satan. Ima kill you. I brought you into this world, I can take you out!"

Child goes to his room: "My parent loves me and stopped me from doing wrong stuff" (grows up to thank his parents for their love)

Parent goes into room: Weeps. (Watches child grow up strong and honorable)

Of course, life isn't always this favorable...but, yeah, this is how life happens.

That's called pan theology.

But if God created Everything, wouldn't Everything equal God?

I meant to say "pantheism" rather than pan theology.

Pantheism is the philosophical and religious belief that reality, the universe, and nature are identical to divinity or a supreme entity, The physical universe is thus understood as an immanent deity, still expanding and creating, which has existed since the beginning of time. --wiki

Pantheism is the basic belief behind the bb theory...that matter, space, energy, even life itself...is God...and has created itself.

Pantheists worship the planets and stars, the earth, animals, other human beings...it's quite common.

The Bible said it would happen...

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙬𝙤𝙧𝙨𝙝𝙞𝙥𝙥𝙚𝙙 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙨𝙚𝙧𝙫𝙚𝙙 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙘𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙩𝙪𝙧𝙚 𝙢𝙤𝙧𝙚 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙣 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝘾𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙩𝙤𝙧...Romans1.25 (bold italics mine)

And we are certainly not God.

We are all PART of that which is God.

God was perfectly right and just to command the destruction of Amalek...men women, children, livestock, the very memory of them.

Here is where I can't take people such as yourself seriously.

The murder of innocent men, women, and children, theft of their possessions, destruction of their livestock, is EVIL and it is WRONG.

It's like something Charles Manson would approve of.

Only EVIL minds and hearts would order or condone such a thing, certainly NOT the Creator of all that exists, nor those who sincerely value life and goodness in the world.

It's akin to what modern day Jews use to justify their genocide against Palestinians.

In reality, the words of Samuel were most likely written after the fact, and were written to ease the guilt felt by the soldiers who carried out the rape, murder, and destruction of innocent people.

Pure EVIL feeds off of human horror, anguish, suffering, and pain. So if something told Samuel to "smite" anyone, it was likely PURE EVIL (Satan) who was hungry and needed to be fed.

Hearing voices in your head ordering you to kill people is usually considered insanity, not divine inspiration.

We are all PART of that which is God.

I was created by God, with a free will.

Once, I was apart from God and wanted nothing to do with Him.

Then, one day, I beheld His glory...and chose to be with Him now and in eternity.

Christ's death and shed blood made it possible that I, a sinful man, could be in the presence of a Holy God.

certainly NOT the Creator of all that exists,

You seem so 'certain' that you know the Creator.

Describe the Creator to me so that I can know the Creator too.

You seem so 'certain' that you know the Creator.

Describe the Creator to me so that I can know the Creator too.

I know what the Creator is NOT.

The Creator is not an impotent voice in the head of a primitive backwards People, who orders his "People" to commit mindless murder.

If anyone actually needed to be "smitten", it would not be at the hands of men, but by divine intervention such as earthquake, flood, lightning, disease, etc.

The killing of innocent men, women, children, including babies, unleashes unfathomable misery, horror, fright, and suffering. Such negative energies strengthen evil.

Additionally, COMMITTING murder corrupts the soul.

So in reality, the Jewish Rulers were evil men and wrote their texts to portray themselves as divinely inspired.

Amalek

The murder of innocent men, women, and children, theft of their possessions, destruction of their livestock, is EVIL and it is WRONG

Amalek means "those who lick blood"

They were utterly barbaric.

God, being omniscient, knew that their enfants would grow up to be utterly barbaric (otherwise God would have spared them).

Even the livestock needed to be destroyed because people were superstitious in those days and those who got the livestock of the Amalekites would have been tempted to carry on the traditions of the Amalekites.

Even so, because Amalek was spared, his descendants went on to become the Edomites. Today, the Rothschilds have taken the name of the Edomites.

You have boasted of your knowledge of ancient people, but I do not find much depth of your knowledge.

You still have not described what the Creator IS...

Amalek means "those who lick blood"

So said the Jews who murdered them.

All Palestinians are terrorists, isn't that right?

But yeah, I don't believe the tales told by barbaric murderers.

Much like those who perpetrated the medieval inquisitions, those who claim to be pious and holy are usually the complete opposite, and are in fact the very evil they claim to be against.

God is ALL that exists.

The winner always gets to write history..

Even in modern times the truth is often the opposite of what is told by the powerful.

God is ALL that exists.

You seem ambivalent or unable to talk about God, but you speak forcefully for God in what God is NOT...

You said this in post #29...

What that means is that God exists beyond our Universe, is in fact ALL Universes that have ever existed, exist today, and will ever exist.

What does this even mean? God is impersonal? Distant? Beyond our knowing? Does our Creator care about the creation, including us?

You know the Creator is not...

The Creator is not an impotent voice in the head of a primitive backwards People, who orders his "People" to commit mindless murder.

How do you know this? Maybe the Creator is in fact this, if we are all part of God, and that God is ALL that exists.

Just asking...

So said the Jews who murdered them.

Here you are mistaken.

The Israelites, not the Jews, attacked the Amalekites.

Huge difference.

How do you know this? Maybe the Creator is in fact this, if we are all part of God, and that God is ALL that exists.

God is actually not evil, so ok, evil is not part of God, but part of the Destructor, who also exists.

The Israelites, not the Jews, attacked the Amalekites.

The Israelites were not Muslim, Hindu, or anything other than Jewish.

The JEWS are those who follow the Jewish faith, which is also their perceived history.

So yes, they WERE Jews. Call them Hebrew, Israeli, Israelite, or Jew, they are all Jewish.

Was not Jesus named "King of the Jews"?

By the Roman Pontius Pilate...in mockery.

Jesus' proper title is "King of kings and Lord of Lords"..

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. Revelation 19:16

By the Roman Pontius Pilate...in mockery.

Not only there, but by the wise men seeking out the location of his birth..

From Matthew 2:2

“Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.”

“Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.”

The true Israelite tribes morphed into "Jews" during and after the Babylonian captivity. (The Magi asked amiss imo).

And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them. --Esther8.17

𝘼𝙣𝙙 𝙢𝙖𝙣𝙮 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙥𝙚𝙤𝙥𝙡𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙡𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙗𝙚𝙘𝙖𝙢𝙚 𝙅𝙚𝙬𝙨...imagine that, Babylonian people 'became' Jews.

Meanwhile, back in Israel Edomites (the descendants of Amalek, the people you love) 'became' "Jews".

If someone were of the tribes of Israel they identified as such: the apostle Paul made it known he was of the tribe of Benjamin. Matthew may have been of the tribe of Levi. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah (He was not a jew).

Jews were and are interlopers.

Hebrew is a language and a ethnicity.

Israelite is a nationality.

There is no religion called Hebrew or Israelite.

Meanwhile, back in Israel Edomites (the descendants of Amalek, the people you love) 'became' "Jews".

I neither love nor hate people because of labels assigned to them.

Are you one of those who hate all Palestinians and would slit the throat of a Palestinian baby because Netanyahu described that child as "Amelek"?

Sadistic murder is never condoned by God, no matter what the Jews say.

Just admit it...you didn't read my post #144

Apparently you're the one needing glasses, as I'm the one who wrote post #144..

I neither love nor hate people because of labels assigned to them.

Are you one of those who hate all Palestinians and would slit the throat of a Palestinian baby because Netanyahu described that child as "Amelek"?

Sadistic murder is never condoned by God, no matter what the Jews say.

Your posts are worse than Rocky's...

You just blurt out emotional nonsense.

And you still can't define what religion was practiced by the Israelites.

Your posts are worse than Rocky's...

I wouldn't doubt you and Stone are the same person.

So what religion was Jesus, and what religion is the Torah?

I give up...what is Jesus' religion?

I give up...what is Jesus' religion?

I really need to tell you? I thought you were a religious expert.

Look it up on the Internet if you need to..

Yes. The Bible is filled with examples of God's anger.

Which I say is evidence the Bible is not the WoG.

And what could ever possibly happen that God couldn't recover from? What could ever happen that God would need to recover from?

Question not understood.

When one is angry, one recovers from that emotional state. Anger is a state of weakness. At least that is what I argue. I expect you would agree that any person who suffers from overwhelming anger needs prayer. That on it's face is an admission that it is a state of weakness.

I say the concept of an angry or jealous God is inconsistent with the attributes you listed above.

His anger falls under the attribute of being just, requiring justice. And also love.

Being just does not require one be subject to anger.

Nope. The leaders didn't have to tell the people of God's anger...everyone felt it immediately and personally. God would flat out kill scores of people until they came back into line.

Or the leaders would point to an incident in which people died and claim it was because God was angry.

But didn't God say we are made in His image? You have emotions because God has emotions.

I maintain anger stems from weakness. And God is not weak.

Here is where I can't take people such as yourself seriously.

The murder of innocent men, women, and children, theft of their possessions, destruction of their livestock, is EVIL and it is WRONG.

It's like something Charles Manson would approve of.

. . .

Well said. It's where theology becomes less of a sound philosophy and more an art of making a square peg fit in a round hole.

Amalek means "those who lick blood"

They were utterly barbaric.

According to those who wrote the history books about them, which were their enemies.

The winner always gets to write history..

You beat me to it!

And God is not weak.

Does God have emotions?

According to those who wrote the history books about them, which were their enemies.

Well, then, are any history books trustworthy? How does one know?

Does God have emotions?

How do you define emotions? Emotions that are a result of the human mind functioning, no, God does not.

God is not human.

Does God have emotions? How do you define emotions? Emotions that are a result of the human mind functioning, no, God does not.

God is not human.

Humans have emotions, capable of love, hate, caring, anger, jealousy, etc.

Did God not create us...or did God give us something He does not have?

I believe God is a Person, perfect, in every way. Capable of love, anger, jealousy...but never allowing those emotions to become sinful.

You're saying God is not even capable of love?

, no, God does not.

God is not human.

God is not human and you are not God. So you couldn't know if God had emotions unless you read the Bible. Hypnotists who consult demons doesn't count.

Of course God has emotions. God loves us.

Your position is utterly ridiculous.

Humans have emotions, capable of love, hate, caring, anger, jealousy, etc.

Did God not create us...or did God give us something He does not have?

I believe God is a Person, perfect, in every way. Capable of love, anger, jealousy...but never allowing those emotions to become sinful.

You're saying God is not even capable of love?

Good points. You are making sense. I am going to do my best to respond to you in a different manner.

The BB denies that God has communicated to us, that He has told us clearly how He created the universe.

The BB may pay lip service to "God" but adamantly denies that He has intentionally instructed us on His method* of creation.

As to rejecting God, try being a Christian professor (or student) in a secular university. You'll find out immediately who is narrow minded and vindictive.

The so called big bang is the theory of ancient dumb people.

So Tucker's guest is correct...the Big Bang Theory is nonsense...foolishness.

Even more so for the Theory of Evolution.

More truth from you.

The spirit of antichrist is rampant.

Tell me, where in the bible does it explain nuclear physics?

lol. how cute.

so it doesn't mean the BB theory is rejecting God.

Yes it does.

You're the one that tried to compare the sculpture to the big bang.

And human beings and animals are much more complex than a statue. But you don't get it because you push your failed ideology.

but I trust the Biblical account... And what IS that account?

You are such a deep thinker. Not.

The account given in the Bible. Which is doubtful you even read.

What it comes down to bro is that the bible does NOT explain EXACTLY how anything was created.

The big bang is a theory that DOES fit into the biblical words of "let there be light".

HOW that light was created is still a mystery and up to debate.

No the Bible doesn't explain everything. It explains what God wanted us to know. IF WE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT AND BELIEVE IT. Which you haven't.

Your big bang theory doesn't fit into anything to do with the Bible. It doesn't even fit into anything scientific. It is a theory of ancient dumb people.

No how light was created isn't up for debate. You can bad mouth what God said and pretend you are a God. But the truth is the truth.

It could have been a divine event caused by the instant injection of mass that caused the creation of our universe. Some event outside of our universe that caused this universe to be created. In fact, I don't see how anyone believing in an ultimate supreme God could argue that our current universe contains God Himself. God MUST be beyond our universe.

Whatever that means. Who knows.

You have no room to accept the possibility that there could have been divine power and design behind either the BB or Evolution?

There is no room to accept that life evolved. When monkeys have sex they never produce people. When snails have sex they only produce snails. That goes for every other creature in our world without any exceptions.

To believe otherwise or open your mind to the possibility is quite insane honestly. Every real scientist knows that.

in THEIR own likeness A reference to the triune nature of God...Father, Son, Holy Spirit

Yes. That is what I think. Mike Winger has a video on that. He gave some examples of what some other theories of that means. I don't recall everything he mentioned. Maybe I will post it sometime.

If I don't get banned for speaking my mind.

I have a special set of rules. Like if someone insults me I'm not allowed to insult them back.

Some can't think beyond what they are told.

Some people can't admit they are sinners in need or redemption. They want to hold onto their sin.

You can't trust mistranslated texts from a few thousand years ago to be 100% accurate or complete.

You cannot be trusted to tell the truth. You just made up something about mistranslated texts. So you cannot be trusted. Take that to the bank.

His Son (actually our Universe) Show me the verse that says that.

He can't do that. Some people are not honest.

His ability is not in question.

It has in fact been put in question here. Some of you all have said it is not possible that God preserved his word and their are errors in it. Some people thing God is not capable of that.

Does God explain nuclear physics, chemistry, or math anywhere in the bible?

Do you think ancient Hebrews who wrote the bible would have known anything about those things?

That is a lame. God didn't give us the recipe for Eggnog either. So what does that matter?

Where does the Bible say the BB & evolution did not occur? If the Bible is silent on those matters, then it's not contradicting those theories.

God didn't say not to mix Clorox bleach and Ammonia. So maybe that is good for us to breathe. That is basically what you just wrote. And no the Bible isn't silent on those matters it gave us a very clear description in Genesis chapter 1 and 2 of what happened. Even a third grader could understand it if they don't go adding stuff the the verses and making stuff up. That is even more reliable than bitcoin.

It's actually improper scientific method to start with the assumption that something is true, then proceed to search for evidence supporting that conclusion.

You just said evolution and the Big Bang are bullshit.

I'm pretty sure

pretty sure means you don't know.

I'm sure you think you are smart.

In fact, if you look at skeletons of modern birds and compared them to skeletons of dinosaurs, they are quite similar. Which would mean modern birds are most likely descended from dinosaurs.

Everything in science says you are full of it. Birds have birds, people have people, turtles have turtles. What you say is a product of someone's imagination and you clinging to someone else's imagination as if it is a fact.

Then you should know that what I've said concerning the mistranslation of Genesis is an absolute fact,

You have already proven that you are not to be trusted. Now you have doubled down on it.

More wisdom to come tomorrow if I am not banned for speaking my mind. You know free speech and all.

I believe God is a Person, perfect, in every way. Capable of love, anger, jealousy...but never allowing those emotions to become sinful.

But God killing some of his children out of anger or jealousy wouldn't be considered "sinful" right? But it would be for us?

anger

I can't help but notice that you focus on "anger".

Never mind that you believe a divine magic caused an explosion of creation, and this divine magic has left humanity to rot in useless existence.

No, it's only God's anger that keeps you from acknowledging a Biblical God.

Sure, you have many other issues...but it is the issue "anger" that concerns you most.

Why "anger"?

Sure, you have many other issues...but it is the issue "anger" that concerns you most.

You avoided my question.

Anger is weakness. Bible says God has gotten angry. Repeatedly as you pointed out yourself. We surely agree that acting out of anger or jealousy to harm others is wrong. Now please give a rational theological explanation for why God can kill some of his kids out of anger and it's okay, but it's not for us.

I don't think there is one. Any provided would be trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Does God hold us to a higher moral standard than he holds himself? It would seem so.

So this is a flaw exposing the Bible as a work of man, not God. It paints us a picture of God that is clearly incorrect.

Anger and jealousy are vices that we are called to grow out of. The NT is a good book overall and one reason is it clearly calls us to develop virtues and quash vices. Jealousy is a vice. I consider anger to be one also.

Now please give a rational theological explanation for why God can kill some of his kids out of anger

I told you. I laid it out for you concerning Amalek. Apparently my reasoned response did not register with you.

but it's not for us.

Anger is actually required of us.

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Be angry...but not to the point of sin...don't hold on to anger.

I told you. I laid it out for you concerning Amalek. Apparently my reasoned response did not register with you.

I didn't find it reasoned at all. You described justification in the form of "the end justifies the means". Kill them now -- men, women and children -- a mass slaughter of human beings, so that the world will be a better place in the future.

Anger is actually required of us.

No it is not. Your quoted passage doesn't even say that. In fact it says the opposite in instructing that we should rid ourselves of anger before going to bed.

The clearest inference is that IF we get angry, don't act on it, and cure yourself of it before nightfall. It is not described as a virtue at all.

But somehow, God still struggles with this.

You described justification in the form of "the end justifies the means".

These are your words...not mine!

Explain: what were God's options regarding the Amalakites?

Anger is actually required of us. No it is not.

When you see injustice...and you feel nothing...no sense of righteous anger wells up in you...you are a sociopath.

Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called 𝙨𝙤𝙘𝙞𝙤𝙥𝙖𝙩𝙝𝙮, is a mental health condition in which a person consistently 𝙨𝙝𝙤𝙬𝙨 𝙣𝙤 𝙧𝙚𝙜𝙖𝙧𝙙 𝙛𝙤𝙧 𝙧𝙞𝙜𝙝𝙩 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙬𝙧𝙤𝙣𝙜...

Humans are designed to feel anger, especially when they see injustice.

Righteous anger motivates human beings to change things that are wrong.

But you say being angry is bad?

And human beings and animals are much more complex than a statue.

I'm not the one who made the comparison genius.

You have already proven that you are not to be trusted. Now you have doubled down on it.

Projection as usual Stone. So tell me, do you think that the Torah was written in English? Or are you just to lazy to research the fact that the verse I discussed was mistranslated?

I believe God is a Person

As in a form of human?

What you say is a product of someone's imagination and you clinging to someone else's imagination as if it is a fact.

Are you one of those people who cling to the idea that the earth is flat?

Your big bang theory doesn't fit into anything to do with the Bible.

That you can't see the connection between the words "Let there be light" and the sudden appearance of light in our Universe demonstrates your inability to think clearly.

you even make your grandmother sick, lol

I believe God is a Person

As in a form of human?

Probably wearing some sort of Rugby Coach shirt knowing my luck.

You'd poison a blind man's dog and steal his cane
You'd gift-wrap a leper and mail him to your aunt Jane
You'd even force-feed a diabetic a candy cane
You can go to hell

Sorry but this is hilarious!

Rejected article, very amusing. I was concerned that Yahoo rejected my bid for cigars.

Monica Lewinsky Launches First Podcast With Wondery

I believe God is a Person

As in a form of human?

Probably wearing some sort of Rugby Coach shirt knowing my luck.

You know there's a God.

Even a dummy can figure that out.

You also know that God self-exists...no one created God.

And you know God created everything...there's no other explanation.

But He's not going to be the boss of you, no-sir-ee bob

Isn't that right, Mr. Dakmar :)

Ancient Tribal Mushroom Freak scribbles don't cut it in my daily life.

Actually I think right now that God is a crutch to allow the weak to feel better about themselves. To explain the constant harping, the hours spent scolding others rather than building something.

“Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.”

3 What do people gain from all their labors at which they toil under the sun?

4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

5 The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.

6 The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course.

7 All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again.

8 All things are wearisome, more than one can say. The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear its fill of hearing.

9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

10 Is there anything of which one can say, “Look! This is something new”?

It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time.

11 No one remembers the former generations, and even those yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow them.

7 All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again.

Am I Amelek? Do I get a star? :)

I believe in truth, because it must be true, by definition! :)

The truth is...you want nothing to do with your Creator.

The truth is...you want nothing to do with your Creator.

Ok Spanky, whatever! :)

What if I was built to reject nonsense? Who/what would sabotage me that way?

[edit]Oh, right...Satan. As always. Damned shame that free will malarky, otherwise I could be a soldier killing rebels!

What if I was built to reject nonsense?

God is nonsense? Are you sure?

God is nonsense? Are you sure?

Dogma is nonsense.

Dogma is nonsense.

Labeling God as dogma...makes the rejection easier, I suppose.

Go ahead and prove me correct by screeching at me like some old witch woman.

by screeching at me

I would never screech at you.

You are a creation of God. I respect God's creation.

Anger is weakness. Bible says God has gotten angry. Repeatedly as you pointed out yourself. We surely agree that acting out of anger or jealousy to harm others is wrong. Now please give a rational theological explanation for why God can kill some of his kids out of anger and it's okay, but it's not for us.

Anger is not a weakness.

Say someone raped your wife or daughter. Any normal person would be angered by that. To not be angry at that would be quite strange.

Now please give a rational theological explanation for why God can kill some of his kids out of anger and it's okay, but it's not for us.

I don't think there is one. Any provided would be trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Does God hold us to a higher moral standard than he holds himself? It would seem so.

So this is a flaw exposing the Bible as a work of man, not God. It paints us a picture of God that is clearly incorrect.

Anger and jealousy are vices that we are called to grow out of. The NT is a good book overall and one reason is it clearly calls us to develop virtues and quash vices. Jealousy is a vice. I consider anger to be one also.

If the creator of the Universe created us with free will. He gave us a choice of how to behave didn't he. I'm going to jump around a bit so forgive me.

God wanted us to love him is the way I understand it. If he forced us to love him it wouldn't be love at all. So he gave us a choice of how to behave.

If God is good I would think he would want us to be good.

If some of us are evil and would harm others or his plan to redeem mankind.

Why wouldn't that make him mad/angry/hurt. Do you think he should just look the other way and make it so the bad ones (we are all bad to a degree) could harm the good ones? Could harm them in a way that would lead them not to be saved?

Here is part of a sermon that explains in part the point I am trying to get across. Please take 1 min and watch it and let me know what you think. I may take the time to find a longer version of what the pastor is saying here.

And human beings and animals are much more complex than a statue.

I'm not the one who made the comparison genius.

It went right over your head.

Let me try to make the point better.

You think that we evolved from some random chance. But you don't think the statue which is much simpler evolved. Something that would have a far easier time evolving. You can see that it is ridiculous to think of a statue evolving. But you just can't see it is even more ridiculous to think that human beings evolved from nothing even though we are much more complex and it would not be possible if you honestly think about it.

Are you one of those people who cling to the idea that the earth is flat?

That is what people who didn't read the Bible thought. The Bible clearly says the world isn't flat.

If you ask real nice I will show you. If not you can wonder about it.

Projection as usual Stone. So tell me, do you think that the Torah was written in English? Or are you just to lazy to research the fact that the verse I discussed was mistranslated?

You really think it was originally written in English? How quaint.

It was translated into English. You must think that God is not powerful enough to preserve his word. lol

That you can't see the connection between the words "Let there be light" and the sudden appearance of light in our Universe demonstrates your inability to think clearly.

I see you haven't ever read the Bible, or you couldn't comprehend it.

Let me give you a few verses.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

You see my friend it was part of a day not millions of years.

Can you wrap your brain around that?

Anger and jealousy are vices that we are called to grow out of.

Here is a little play. It is make believe.

Pinguinite- Hello daughter how are you doing today?

Pinguinites Daughter- It wasn't a good day it was horrible i was raped and I am so angry.

Pinguinite- Daughter you shouldn't be angry about it you need to grow up and not be angry.

Pinguinites Daughter- That is crazy dad.

Pinguinite- It is a vice to be angry you need to grow out of it.

Pinguinites Daughter- UUgggghhhh

You described justification in the form of "the end justifies the means".

These are your words...not mine!

Yes, as I was describing your statement here:

God was perfectly right and just to command the destruction of Amalek...men women, children, livestock, the very memory of them.

Had Israel obeyed, the world would not be suffering under the Edomites as we are today.

You stated that the world would be a better place if complete genocide had occurred in a point in time. The phrase "The ends justifies the means" describes accepting a lessor evil to justify avoiding a greater evil. Logically, it can make sense. Morally, it falls flat on its face.

When you see injustice...and you feel nothing...no sense of righteous anger wells up in you...you are a sociopath.

No, not necessarily. Not when you understand we are all immortal and neither God nor the universe revolves around planet Earth or the human population. Not that I claim to be immune to anger myself. I am not. But anger is no virtue at all. God does not get angry, and even if he did, he certainly wouldn't kill people while under it's influence. Anger is weakness.

Humans are designed to feel anger, especially when they see injustice.

Human emotions are not spiritual emotions. And anger is a human emotion. Ancient Israelites personified God by painting him with human emotions. Many cultures, probably all, do this. It's a way of making them feel like God is like them. We all want our caretakers to understand how we feel.

But you say being angry is bad?

Absolutely.

I believe God is a Person

As in a form of human?

Sorry Neil, that question should have been directed to watchman in post 165..

For criminal acts and violence on the stage
For bein' a brat, refusin' to act your age
For all of the decent citizens you've enraged
You can go to hell

I can't afford to hire dancers.

You're the one that seems to think the Torah was written in English.

I believe God is a Person

As in a form of human?

I did not say this as I was quoting watchman, but I say God is not a human. Our human identity is merely incidental. Humans are a product of earth. We as souls inhabit a single human body for the life of the body. Our human nature/DNA/bodies do not make us valuable to God in any way.

The human race is expendable as far as God is concerned. We souls that inhabit these bodies are not.

Say someone raped your wife or daughter. Any normal person would be angered by that. To not be angry at that would be quite strange.

You suggest God is a normal person?

But your example is extreme. Compare that to a bunch of confused people making a gold statue and throwing a party around it for a few days. That would be cause enough to make an all-knowing God who understands all of us completely and cannot be surprised by anything we would do angry enough to kill them? Or angry at all?

The root of anger is insecurity. One becomes angry when one finds himself powerless in the face of a wrong done to him/her, or perhaps others.

Please explain how God is in any way powerless or capable of being surprised by anything at all.

The bible is a work of man, not God. It is falsely revered with theology constructed around it to give it validation even when it means employing creative theological gymnastics, as is the case with arguing that God can get angry.

Having said that, much of what the bible says, particularly in the NT, I agree is true and correct. Of course that is part of the reason why all of the bible is considered divine by so many.

Please explain how God is in any way powerless or capable of being surprised by anything at all.

That does seem quite out of keeping with omnipotence, which I must assume includes omniscience, since it's a package deal.

neither God nor the universe revolves around planet Earth or the human population.

In all that you have said, that God is angry, God is weak, etc...you are simply saying, "I reject God", that is, "I reject the God of the Bible".

Dakmar has actually been the most honest and clear.

He said "It's my choice, I have made it".

If the creator of the Universe created us with free will. He gave us a choice of how to behave didn't he. I'm going to jump around a bit so forgive me.

God wanted us to love him is the way I understand it. If he forced us to love him it wouldn't be love at all. So he gave us a choice of how to behave.

If God is good I would think he would want us to be good.

All of the above is correct.

If some of us are evil and would harm others or his plan to redeem mankind. Why wouldn't that make him mad/angry/hurt.

Because he's smarter than that.

Do you think he should just look the other way and make it so the bad ones (we are all bad to a degree) could harm the good ones? Could harm them in a way that would lead them not to be saved?

Your mistake is in thinking that actual events on earth are what's most important to God. It is not. What's important is how each of us responds to the various things we experience. We are on earth to grow, to embellish our virtues and quash our vices. To learn kindness, the Golden Rule (as per gospel), to patience with others. to turn the other cheek. To love our enemies. Those things make us stronger. Things that keep us weak is to wallow in anger, jealousy, selfishness, etc.

Everything around us will perish eventually, including planet earth itself. We, however, will not. We are immortal. And things that happen to us on earth, good or bad, is no more real than what happens to us in dreams. And just as dream events become inconsequential when we awake, earthly events become inconsequential when we die and leave earth/human form, and for the same reason. None of it was real. What is/was real, are the lessons in how we handled ourselves.

This is a very simply theology that doesn't require all the convoluted gymnastics of biblical theology. And if one asks if God had a choice of how the universe should be ordered, wouldn't he choose one that didn't end up with most of his kids burning in hell for all eternity?

Here is part of a sermon that explains in part the point I am trying to get across. Please take 1 min and watch it and let me know what you think. I may take the time to find a longer version of what the pastor is saying here.

Just about everything in that 60 second snippet I completely agree with.

Dakmar has actually been the most honest and clear.

But I am a habitual skeptic. Just for the record.

You think that we evolved from some random chance.

It is an assumption, even within the science community, that evolution is a product of chance. It is possible some biological mechanism could be in play that specifically causes offspring to be better suited for a current environment that doesn't rely on chance.

Christian fundamentalists also err in assuming evolution could not have a supernatural element assisting its progress.

Everything around us will perish eventually, including planet earth itself. We, however, will not. We are immortal. And things that happen to us on earth, good or bad, is no more real than what happens to us in dreams. And just as dream events become inconsequential when we awake, earthly events become inconsequential when we die and leave earth/human form, and for the same reason. None of it was real. What is/was real, are the lessons in how we handled ourselves.

In Dreams?

Sorry, I try not to be horrible, but can't stop myself sometimes. :)

In all that you have said, that God is angry, God is weak, etc...you are simply saying, "I reject God", that is, "I reject the God of the Bible".

I never said God is angry or weak. YOU say he's angry. Yes, I reject that portion of the biblical portrayal of God as a God that can get angry or jealous. Absolutely I do. God is certainly real, and he's far, far, FAR better than what the bible depicts.

Plainly put, the bible fails the test of being the divine Word of God. It is not. It is a work of man. It's flaws are present. It does have good elements in it but so do a great many other books by ordinary authors. Many people ascribe divinity to it but only because they were raised to do so, as if ancient people had any more wisdom about life than people today do, and were free of all the human flaws that we all see around us daily. Ancient people were the same as us. Wondering about their purpose & confused about their human form. As souls they correctly knew they were special in the universe, but their human minds couldn't figure out how that was possible, in no small way trying to figure out how animals were different from them. So stories and legends arose, relayed from parent to inquiring child, generation after generation, eventually "codified" on scrolls. Some items correct in spirit but wrong in mechanics.

We should be open minded. That is particularly hard for our human minds that are so comfortable clinging to beliefs. Many Christian preachers say a problem with people is we do not have enough faith. I say the problem with people is we have far too much. We accept too much as true which is not true, particularly things we are taught as children. It's the reason why countries remain predominently of certain faiths generation after generation. If the human mind was given to rational thought, we would instead see various faiths spread homogeneously through all countries about evenly. But we don't. Most humans grow up believing what their parents taught them. Some firmly enough to strap bombs to themselves. Others enough to promote genocide of "subhuman" and "inferior" people.

Yes, we are all conditioned to just accept what we were taught, taking the "wide road" as it were. People like me take the narrow path and are willing to ask the real question of "Is all I've been taught in my youth actually true?" I'll take satisfaction in that. And when my time comes to face God, I'll tell Him (actually He will already know) that I followed my conscience at least somewhat faithfully, and I did not lie about it even when people told me I would burn for all eternity if I did not somehow "change my mind" as though that were possible.

He said "It's my choice, I have made it".

As we all have. Good for him. Good for you. Good for me.

In Dreams?

Well, E = mc²....

Which could be interpreted to mean our entire universe is....

You suggest God is a normal person?

No. I was just showing your comment that being angry is wrong and a vice.

I think my post served that purpose.

But your example is extreme. Compare that to a bunch of confused people making a gold statue and throwing a party around it for a few days. That would be cause enough to make an all-knowing God who understands all of us completely and cannot be surprised by anything we would do angry enough to kill them? Or angry at all?

My example is extreme. But it isn't the only example.

Would you be angry if you were castrated?

Onto your second sentence.

Why do you say they were confused?

Yes it would make him angry. It did didn't it? Just because he knows what will happen in the future doesn't mean he should never get angry about it.

It seems you have substituted yourself for God and you say what God should do or be.

The bible is a work of man, not God.

The Bible says "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

You used to say you were a christian. What changed your mind?

The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

If some of us are evil and would harm others or his plan to redeem mankind. Why wouldn't that make him mad/angry/hurt.

Because he's smarter than that.

What does smarter than that have to do with the statement?

Because you are smarter you wouldn't be angry.

I think you are substituting your judgement and the way you think things should be for Gods.

Would you be angry if you were castrated?

Why do you continually argue that because I can get angry, that God must also get angry? Being compared to God is flattering but it's a comparison I must reject.

Again, anger stems from weakness. Just because your bible says God got angry doesn't mean it's true. My point is the bible cannot be the infallible WoG precisely because it portrays God as subject to anger. It simply does not mix with all the other attributes about God you already agree with. All knowing, all powerful etc.

Why do you say they were confused?

How would you describe their mental state?

It seems you have substituted yourself for God and you say what God should do or be.

We are BOTH arguing what God should do or be. YOU are arguing that because I can get angry that God can get angry too, ascribing human weakness for God's nature.

The Bible says "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

And....?

You used to say you were a christian. What changed your mind?

New information that makes more sense, and being willing to be open minded to the possibility that everything works in a way different from how I've believed since my youth. Something you are not willing to do. You are probably afraid God will get mad at you if you dare put your current beliefs to a real test. Certainly the bible issuing warnings to that effect would do that. Kind of a self-certifying warning against honestly searching for truth.

Do you know how God feels about other planets or civilizations on other worlds?

You need to think beyond primitive man to understand.

𝐀𝐧𝐝 𝐦𝐞𝐥𝐭𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐡𝐚𝐝𝐞𝐬 𝐚𝐰𝐚𝐲

𝐒𝐨 𝐓𝐫𝐮𝐭𝐡 𝐝𝐨𝐞𝐬 𝐅𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐲’𝐬 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐫𝐦 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐬𝐨𝐥𝐯𝐞

𝐀𝐧𝐝 𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐑𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐨𝐧 𝐩𝐮𝐭𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝐟𝐥𝐢𝐠𝐡𝐭

𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐮𝐦𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐝𝐢𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐝 𝐢𝐧𝐯𝐨𝐥𝐯𝐞

𝐑𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐥𝐥𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐮𝐚𝐥 𝐝𝐚𝐲

--George Frederic Handel (from Milton's L’Allegro,il Penseroso)

Your way of thinking limits God to what humans can feel or experience.

Yes there is a moral code. You are not allowed to be a faggot, a murderer a maker of pretend gods from your imagination. Those are sins and people will be held accountable. It isn't my thinking it is what God let us know. That is my view.

Do you know how God feels about other planets or civilizations on other worlds?

Nope.

Do you know that there are civilizations on other worlds? If so tell us about them.

You need to think beyond primitive man to understand.

You think because someone is ancient they are inferior to you. Even though they are exactly like you and me.

They were there to witness the world as it was. You can keep thinking you are superior if you want. I really don't care what you think. You have very little to offer.

Why do you continually argue that because I can get angry, that God must also get angry?

Because you said that being angry is a vice. That it is wrong and we need to grow out of it.

I'm just showing you that that is not true.

Any reasonable person would get angry at injustice. And people who don't get angry an someone being raped or murderer is a bad person. So anger is necessary.

For us humans and for a just God.

Also the world is real with real consequences. We only live once. We only get one chance to get it right.

Again, anger stems from weakness. Just because your bible says God got angry doesn't mean it's true.

Just because you say God shouldn't get angry doesn't mean God getting angry isn't justified.

You have offered no reasons why God shouldn't get angry at evil.

A world without consequences would be a world without love.

You seem to think God shouldn't love good and be angry at evil.

Satan doesn't get angry at evil.

Why do you say they were confused? How would you describe their mental state?

Willingly and knowingly doing the wrong thing.

We should be open minded. That is particularly hard for our human minds that are so comfortable clinging to beliefs.

Open minded about what.

Killing someone?

Stealing?

Being a faggot?

Being open minded is to a large degree a woke phrase evoked to try to cover up for wrong doing and make people feel sorry for people who do wrong things.

Most humans grow up believing what their parents taught them. Some firmly enough to strap bombs to themselves. Others enough to promote genocide of "subhuman" and "inferior" people.

You rightly get that Muslims strap bombs to themselves and their children.

You didn't mention Israel but it was a dig at Israel to pretend they commit genocide. When the statistics are now out and they inflicted less casualties on civilians of any war in recent memory.

The genocide label that liberals try to put on Israel is just because they hate Jews. They think Jews are inferior and don't deserve a country of their own. Hitler didn't think they did and others think the same way.

You didn't mention Israel but it was a dig at Israel to pretend they commit genocide. When the statistics are now out and they inflicted less casualties on civilians of any war in recent memory.

I did not identify either Muslims or Israelis/Jews in my statement.

But yes, you inferred correctly on both. There is ample evidence that genocide is openly endorsed by a significant number of Israelis, and its fueled in large part by ethno-religious supremacism. The "God's Chosen People"(TM) thing. Rewarding one with a promise of large swaths of land for believing a religious faith is a great incentive.

There is ample evidence that genocide is openly endorsed by a significant number of Israelis, and its fueled in large part by ethno-religious supremacism.

I'm sure in every "race" their are elements that are for genocide of another people.

Truthfully speaking are there more Jews that support so called genocide or Muslims?

I'd say Muslims.

They think they would be rewarded with large swaths of virgins to have as sex slaves.

You think because someone is ancient they are inferior to you. Even though they are exactly like you and me.

They had no concept of galaxies, solar systems, or other worlds.

It's why they didn't mention them in their creation narrative.

They did however inject some spiritual knowledge into their description though, such as the Duality of Nature, that is completely overlooked today due to the mistranslation of the verse that specifies it.

I did not identify either Muslims or Israelis/Jews in my statement.

You can't reason with someone who thinks if they die while trying to kill you, they go to heaven and receive 72 virgins. ;)

They had no concept of galaxies, solar systems, or other worlds.

That is irrelevant.

You can't reason with someone who thinks if they die while trying to kill you, they go to heaven and receive 72 virgins.

Which is why Israel shouldn't give them shit. They are in Israel and they can't behave themselves when in a foreign country.

Israel should destroy all the mosques.

You think that we evolved from some random chance.

You have no idea what I think, and those were never my words.

I understand that the complexity of life is too complex for it to be the product of random chance.

Thing is, evolution is a product of Nature, and Nature is a product of God.

So you think we evolved from monkeys?

Towards the end, that's how it worked out.

In reality we are all creatures of Light.

Some call it Intelligent Design.

It took billions of years to evolve to where we are today. Men weren't walking the planet while the earth was still cooling off and the atmosphere was just beginning to be formed.

I would also say that it didn't just happen here on Earth, but throughout the Universe.

Plainly put, the bible fails the test of being the divine Word of God. It is not. It is a work of man.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil

The words of men.

Since you think you came from a monkey. Don't you have a monkey to fuck or something?

Did I hit a nerve Stone?

Son, I am your father

Which is why Israel shouldn't give them shit. They are in Israel and they can't behave themselves when in a foreign country.

"The thief cometh not, but to steal, and to kill, and to destroy."

https://www.biblehub.com/john/10-10.htm

Antichrist Jews (counterfeit "Israel") aren't God's people, and God killed and/or threw the Jews out of that land (Parable of the Banquet biblehub.com/matthew/kjv/22.htm / biblehub.com/matthew/22-7.htm ) in 70 AD. Israel was called Palestine before the Jews invaded that land under the Balfour Declaration. Before God threw them out in 70 AD, He told them, "Let no fruit grow on thee FOREVER", and it is they who can't behave themselves when in a foreign country.

Matthew 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

biblehub.com/matthew/21-19.htm

I don't understand why you keep propagating the Jewish fable of Jews as Israel and the "Chosen People". Christians are Israel: https://revealinglifetruth.org/uploads/6/9/0/5/69052901/the_church_is_israel_now.pdf

Galatians 4

19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, 20I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.

Hagar and Sarah

21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

www.biblehub.com/kjv/galatians/4.htm

Romans 9:6-8

It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. / Nor because they are Abraham’s (SEED) are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your (SEED) will be reckoned.” / So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as (THE SEED).

Genesis 21:8-21

So the child grew and was weaned, and Abraham held a great feast on the day Isaac was weaned. / But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking her son, / and she said to Abraham, “Expel the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac!” ...

www.biblehub.com/galatians/4-25.htm

This was the gospel as preached by the early church:

Church Fathers - ST. JUSTIN MARTYR DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO, A JEW

"...CHAPTER CXXXV -- CHRIST IS KING OF ISRAEL, AND CHRISTIANS ARE THE ISRAELITIC RACE.

"And when Scripture says, 'I am the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, who have made known Israel your King,' will you not understand that truly Christ is the everlasting King? For you are aware that Jacob the son of Isaac was never a king. And therefore Scripture again, explaining to us, says what king is meant by Jacob and Israel: 'Jacob is my Servant, I will uphold Him; and Israel is mine Elect, my soul shall receive Him. I have given Him my Spirit; and He shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, and His voice shall not be heard without. The bruised reed He shall not break, and the smoking flax He shall not quench, until He shall bring forth judgment to victory. He shall shine, and shall not be broken, until He set judgment on the earth. And in His name shall the Gentiles trust.' Then is it Jacob the patriarch in whom the Gentiles and yourselves shall trust? or is it not Christ? As, therefore, Christ is the Israel and the Jacob, even so we, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelitic race. But let us attend rather to the very word: 'And I will bring forth,' He says, 'the seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah: and it shall inherit My holy mountain; and Mine Elect and My servants shall possess the inheritance, and shall dwell there; and there shall be folds of flocks in the thicket, and the valley of Achor shall be a resting-place of cattle for the people who have sought Me. But as for you, who forsake Me, and forget My holy mountain, and prepare a table for demons, and fill out drink for the demon, I shall give you to the sword. You shall all fall with a slaughter; for I called you, and you hearkened not, and did evil before me, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.' Such are the words of Scripture; understand, therefore, that the seed of Jacob now referred to is something else, and not, as may be supposed, spoken of your people. For it is not possible for the seed of Jacob to leave an entrance for the descendants of Jacob, or for [God] to have accepted the very same persons whom He had reproached with unfitness for the inheritance, and promise it to them again; but as there the prophet says, 'And now, O house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of the Lord; for He has sent away His people, the house of Jacob, because their land was full, as at the first, of soothsayers and divinations;' even so it is necessary for us here to observe that there are two seeds of Judah, and two races, as there are two houses of Jacob: the one begotten by blood and flesh, the other by faith and the Spirit..."

CHAPTER CXXXVI -- THE JEWS, IN REJECTING CHRIST, REJECTED GOD WHO SENT HIM.

"For you see how He now addresses the people, saying a little before: 'As the gape shah be found in the cluster, and they will say, Destroy it not, for a blessing is in it; so will I do for My servant's sake: for His sake I will not destroy them all.' And thereafter He adds: 'And I shall bring forth the seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah.' It is plain then that if He thus be angry with them, and threaten to leave very few of them, He promises to bring forth certain others, who shall dwell in His mountain. But these are the persons whom He said He would sow and beget. For you neither suffer Him when He calls you, nor hear Him when He speaks to you, but have done evil in the presence of the Lord. But the highest pitch of your wickedness lies in this, that you hate the Righteous One, and slew Him; and so treat those who have received from Him all that they are and have, and who are pious, righteous, and humane. Therefore 'woe unto their soul,' says' the Lord, 'for they have devised an evil counsel against themselves, saying, Let us take away the righteous, for he is distasteful to us.' For indeed you are not in the habit of sacrificing to Baal, as were your fathers, or of placing cakes in groves and on high places for the host of heaven: but you have not accepted God's Christ. For he who knows not Him, knows not the will of God; and he who insults and hates Him, insults and hates Him that sent Him. And whoever believes not in Him, believes not the declarations of the prophets, who preached and proclaimed Him to all.

CHAPTER CXXXVII -- HE EXHORTS THE JEWS TO BE CONVERTED..."

dn790003.ca.archive.org/0...int%20Justin%20Martyr.pdf

Beware of Antichrists

…22Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.

https://biblehub.com/1_john/2-23.htm

Christians aren't Israel. We are grafted in.

This is Israel...

And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: Rev.7:4

This is Israel 𝙙𝙞𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙘𝙩 from the church as seen in the walls and foundation of New Jerusalem

And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel. Rev21:12

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev21:14

To be physical/historic/Biblical Israel one must descend from Jacob...

Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob. Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin, Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher. Exodus 1:1-4

The present day, political state of Isreal, populated by gentiles who have converted to become "Jews" (as distinct from Judeans)...are NOT Biblical Israel.

Edit: and they are certainly not recipients of any promises/blessings/land etc. given to Biblical Israel.

and they are certainly not recipients of any promises/blessings/land etc.

There you go again calling God a liar.

Psalm 89:3-4 “I have made a covenant with My chosen; I have sworn to David My servant, I will establish your seed forever And build up your throne to all generations.” Selah.

I noticed you left out part of Revelation to change what it means. (“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”) Israel would be part of all nations. You should get a dictionary and look up the word "all" since you don't know what it means.

You should also look up everlasting. It means forever without end.

Kind of like when you added words to revelation and your name got blotted out from my understanding of what the book or Revelation says.

To be physical/historic/Biblical Israel one must descend from Jacob...

Just like Hitler you hate the Jews.

You make up some story about people who were destroyed thousands of years ago to try to justify your wish that the Jews would all be killed.

You think God wants Muslims to rule the Holy land. That is why you make excuses and lie for them. That is why you are known as the "watchman for rapists".

You also ignore this scripture.

Is that the best you can respond with?

Just showing that nothing changes. Same tactics as from the beginning.

God hath not said.

We were warned to not be deceived in the last days.

King James Bible And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

The present day, political state of Isreal, populated by gentiles who have converted to become "Jews" (as distinct from Judeans)...are NOT Biblical Israel.

Edit: and they are certainly not recipients of any promises/blessings/land etc. given to Biblical Israel.

Spot on my good man !

There you go again calling God a liar.

The covenants and blessings belong to the 𝙗𝙡𝙤𝙤𝙙 𝙙𝙚𝙨𝙘𝙚𝙣𝙙𝙖𝙣𝙩𝙨 𝙤𝙛 𝙅𝙖𝙘𝙤𝙗.

Psalm 89:3-4 “I have made a covenant with My chosen; I have sworn to David My servant, I will establish your seed forever And build up your throne to all generations.” Selah.

Psalm 89:3-4 applies to the blood descendants of Jacob. The fulfilment of this verse is found in Christ, who is the seed of David.

I noticed you left out part of Revelation to change what it means. (“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”) Israel would be part of all nations. You should get a dictionary and look up the word "all" since you don't know what it means.

You always ignore the words "After this" which indicates a separate aspect of the prophecy that God is imparting. As you can see, this multitude is "before the throne" in heaven, no doubt having been killed during the tribulation by the beast and his fake Israel...

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev.7:14

Rev.7:14 is the part that YOU left out...

You should also look up everlasting. It means forever without end.

Any covenants that God choses to honor with the blood descendants of Jacob, Biblical Israel, will be honored during the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Kind of like when you added words to revelation and your name got blotted out from my understanding of what the book or Revelation says.

Again, you are mistaken. I applied the verse concerning the Red Horse to Edom, which means "red". This implicated the people you claim are Israel but are in fact Edom. You were cut to the quick by God's Word...and you didn't like it.

Just like Hitler you hate the Jews...You make up some story...You think God wants Muslims to rule the Holy land...That is why you are known as the "watchman for rapists".

Emotional nonsense.

I picture you stomping your feet when you emote.

Christians aren't Israel. We are grafted in. If your posts weren't so long I would respond more. But you usually put to much so they never get read by most people.

Oh gee...and I even forgot to mention something! (The kingdom of God was taken from them and given to the Christians. Christians are the chosen ones now.)

I went to bed after I wrote that comment the other night, and thought, oh well, I'll add it in the morning, but got an ice storm and lost power yesterday morning until about 2 hours ago.

The Parable of the Wicked Tenants

…42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.”…

Berean Standard Bible

We are grafted in.

yes and the bad branches that did not follow Christ were broken off. But they can be grafted in again, IF they stop being so hardhearted and BELIEVE. https://biblehub.com/romans/11-23.htm. Until then, they are NOT Israel, which was ONE of the names of Christ BEFORE He gave it to Jacob, they are HEATHENS.

biblehub.com/matthew/21-43.htm

Go down the x-ref passages on the right and connect some dots. Including this:

Exodus 19:6

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Replaced by this:

1 Peter 2:9-10

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. / Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

========================

“Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This is from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.”…

oh yeah, and why does nobody ever talk about this one?

I always wanted to know "who are the 'builders'?" I asked a sweet woman pastor one time, and she laughed and said, "I don't know."

So I did a search in the concordance under builders. Turns out the builders were the ones that built Solomon's temple. God was REALLY looking down the road to Christ, since God does not dwell in temples made with hands. I'm too wordy...figure it out if you're interested:

1 Kings 5

...5And, behold, I purpose to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God, as the LORD spake unto David my father, saying, Thy son [[[[JESUS CHRIST]]], whom I will set upon thy throne in thy room, he shall build an house unto my name...

[[["Know ye not that ye are the Temple of God...?"

https://www.biblehub.com/kjv/1_corinthians/3-16.htm ]]]

... 17And the king commanded, and they brought great stones, costly stones, and hewed stones, to lay the foundation of the house. 18And Solomon's builders and Hiram's builders did hew them, and the stonesquarers: so they prepared timber and stones to build the house.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/1_kings/5.htm

(rejected the true Cornerstone, Jesus Christ). Study the link. It's pretty clear. Or should be.

Fleshly temple vs. the Spiritual Temple.

Christians aren't Israel. We are grafted in.

Much time has passed since the time of Jacob and the Tribes of Israel were promised a variety of things. I wouldn't say all Christians are Israel but surely some are and likely had a hereditary predilection to be Christians.

I do agree that Christians are grafted in. My position would be that Israelites are his chosen that are joined by Christians and all are admonished to call on their Father (Abba) because of His Grace.

I have admitted in the past that I don't have all of the answers nor do I think any of us do. I am sure that God knows "His Own" and will welcome them home. (Many have been stiff necked prodigals). He is the potter and we are the clay.

Casting your pearls before swine like the Rock will fall upon the rocky places where it did not have much soil. And it sprang up immediately, through having no depth of soil.

“Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.

Turns out the builders were the ones that built Solomon's temple. God was REALLY looking down the road to Christ, since God does not dwell in temples made with hands. ...

and by the way, why did God not let DAVID build the temple?

1 Kings 5:3

1And Hiram king of Tyre sent his servants unto Solomon; for he had heard that they had anointed him king in the room of his father: for Hiram was ever a lover of David. 2And Solomon sent to Hiram, saying, 3Thou knowest how that David my father could not build an house unto the name of the LORD his God for the wars which were about him on every side, until the LORD put them under the soles of his feet.

Cross References

1 Chronicles 22:8

but this word of the LORD came to me: ‘You have shed much blood and waged great wars. You are not to build a house for My Name because you have shed so much blood on the ground before Me.

1 Chronicles 28:3

but God said to me, ‘You are not to build a house for My Name, because you are a man of war who has shed blood.’

2 Samuel 7:5-13

“Go and tell My servant David that this is what the LORD says: Are you the one to build for Me a house to dwell in? / For I have not dwelt in a house from the day I brought the Israelites up out of Egypt until this day, but I have moved about with a tent as My dwelling. / In all My journeys with all the Israelites, have I ever asked any of the leaders I appointed to shepherd My people Israel, ‘Why haven’t you built Me a house of cedar?’ ...

biblehub.com/1_kings/5-3.htm

What's changed? Do you think God is pleased with Netanyahu with the help of AIPAC and the US Government committing ethnic cleansing over there now, so they can build their counterfeit temple and start sacrificing animals again and so they can rule over the whole world with their Babylonian Talmud? Do you know there are Palestinian CHRISTIANS in Gaza and the West Bank, in addition to all the other innocent Palestinians? Do you even care? Do you really think this makes God HAPPY? I fear you are going to stand in front of His throne one day and He is going to say, "I never knew you."

Did you hear about the last time they tried to build their counterfeit temple?

The Third Temple (Tisha Be'Av) - Will it be Rebuilt? (every stone was overturned in 363 A.D.!)

"...The restoration of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem would, in Julian's opinion, defeat the Christian argument of replacement theology - that the Church was the true Israel, and that the Temple's destruction and the subsequent exile was the just punishment suffered by the Jewish people for the Crucifixion. ..."

read what happened

bibleprobe.com/rebuildingthetemple.htm

What's changed? Do you think God is pleased with Netanyahu with the help of AIPAC and the US Government committing ethnic cleansing over there now, so they can build their counterfeit temple and start sacrificing animals again and so they can rule over the whole world with their Babylonian Talmud? Do you know there are Palestinian CHRISTIANS in Gaza and the West Bank, in addition to all the other innocent Palestinians? Do you even care? Do you really think this makes God HAPPY? I fear you are going to stand in front of His throne one day and He is going to say, "I never knew you."

Truly, I must agree with you. The genocide taking place in Gaza (Palestine) includes Christians among other completely innocent people that have been subjected to ruthless and unending torture for at least 77 years. I am hopeful that Trump is in the process of stopping the murder but have my doubts.

How people calling themselves Christian can condone this merciless slaughter is beyond me. The so-called Jews and their supporters (U.S.) committing these acts of barbarism are absolutely maniacal.

The scripture that contains the phrase "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity for I never knew you" is to my mind the most serious scripture in the entire Bible.

Something I want to say here is that I know your heart is in the right place and your knowledge is superb. The Rock, in my opinion is an agitator (I would say asshole but I'm trying to quit cussing !!! Ha !)

The genocide taking place in Gaza (Palestine) includes Christians among other completely innocent people that have been subjected to ruthless and unending torture for at least 77 years. I am hopeful that Trump is in the process of stopping the murder but have my doubts.

I have no words for the horror those poor people have, and are, going through. It is so distressing to me. It's barbarism at it's worst. I'm very sorry to say, I don't have much hope of Trump stopping this. I keep seeing things that would seem to negate that hope. I've watched him saying the Palestinians need to be removed and we need to rebuild. What he seems to be saying from everything I have seen: MIGA.

Trump says he's in no rush to implement plan to take over the redevelopment of Gaza

http://www.timesofisrael.com/tru...take-over-redevelop-gaza/

The man with the plan - DC professor sent Trump Gaza relocation development study in July. (just gaaaaag me)

http://www.timesofisrael.com/the...evelopment-study-in-july/

The audacity, and callous disregard for the lives the PTB have destroyed takes the cake, and I'm sure they'll expect the U.S. taxpayers to fund their "real estate project" while Americans left homeless after geo-engineered weather catastrophes will probably also have their lands seized by eminent domain under FEMA and rebuilt according to the desires of the robbers and thieves in CORPUSA along with all their private cronies. They remind me very much of the tribe of Dan who burned Laish to the ground, and built their city on top of the ruins, and named it Dan after their father. They intend to do the same with us. (SEE DEATH OF THE PHOENIX - FINAL ACT FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Netanyahu has made statements to that effect, such as "when we're finished with the United States, she can dry up and blow away." They use us, abuse us, and throw us away, just like they do with our American fighting men and women. Been going on, and has been their plan since they put their contrived CONstitution in place...The Bill of Rights for the most part, was NOT in their plans, and praise God, slowed them down a bit. I am very sorry to say the CONstitution is their baby. Too much evidence in place to say otherwise.)

I wrote that yesterday, and while a lot of shiite is swirling around my head, I sat down to read something and ran across more evidence (and somewhere you said something about not knowing everything, AND I SURE DO NOT EITHER...I AM LEARNING MORE EVERY SINGLE DAY)...

"Tel Dan

A nature reserve and the source of the Dan and Jordan rivers. An impressive archaeological site with unique remains of the Canaanite and Israelite cities and a Biblical High Place.

Joshua 19 47: “…the children of Dan went up to fight against Leshem, and took it… and called Leshem, Dan, after the name of Dan their father”....

http://www.biblewalks.com/TellDan

Context
The Danites Take Micah's Idols

Judges 18…28There was no one to deliver them, because the city was far from Sidon and had no alliance with anyone; it was in a valley near Beth-rehob. And the Danites rebuilt the city and lived there. 29They named it Dan, after their forefather Dan, who was born to Israel— though the city was formerly named Laish. 30The Danites set up idols for themselves, and Jonathan son of Gershom, the son of Moses, and his sons were priests for the tribe of Dan until the day of the captivity of the land.…

SOME x-references:

1 Kings 12:29-30
One calf he set up in Bethel, and the other in Dan. / And this thing became a sin; the people walked as far as Dan to worship before one of the calves.

2 Kings 10:29
but he did not turn away from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had caused Israel to commit—the worship of the golden calves at Bethel and Dan.

Amos 8:14
Those who swear by the guilt of Samaria and say, ‘As surely as your god lives, O Dan,’ or, ‘As surely as the way of Beersheba lives’—they will fall, never to rise again.”

Revelation 7:4-8
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel: / From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, / from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, ...

(note: no Dan listed as sealed; they caused the Southern Kingdom to fall as well, "Sins of Samaria...". HOWEVER, and this is a big however, "Not comprehending the righteousness of God, they go about creating their own righteousness". Christ is our righteousness...to all who BELIEVE. I hope they come to an understanding of the gospel very soon before any more innocent people die, and before they lead us into WWIII. )

Genesis 49:16-17
Dan shall provide justice for his people as one of the tribes of Israel. / He will be a snake by the road, a viper in the path that bites the horse’s heels so that its rider tumbles backward./...

more cross-references here:

biblehub.com/judges/18-29.htm

(or "Dan shall JUDGE his people" as in JUDGMENT, maybe like as in Isaiah 10:5 etc., verses 1-27, where the "Assyrian" has been described as a symbol of God's enemies, that He uses to chastise His people and others. BTW, the ancient Assyrian king used a six-pointed star as the insignia on his seal ring. I posted the website that pointed that out once, and down the memory hole went that website soon after, after warnings about how "dangerous" the site was. It was not. The page about the signet ring was merely historical in context...that was all they were saying. The whole website was simply history about Assyria...I apparently chose to post something the serpents reacted to like a third rail.)

(some of Dan's symbols are the serpent - "Don't tread on me" - the horse - I think of the White Horse of the C.I.A., and the EAGLE - need I comment..."bite" in the context of Genesis 49:17 can mean "oppress with usury". biblehub.com/genesis/49-17.htm )

I have read Dan's colors were red and white. I have read others as well, but I'll stick with red and white. I posted once that Winston Churchill said in a speech to The City of LonDON (DON = DAN? see here - it builds on factoids I've known a long time *** https://watch.pairsite.com/synagogue-of-satan-1.html" ). (BTW, The City of London, Lord Mayor's parade mascots are two straw giants known as "Gog and Magog"), that the people who were behind the Vikings are the same people that rule the world today, or something to that effect. Shortly thereafter, when I went to take better note, it had disappeared and I never saw it again. But look here, Viking ship, red and white striped sail; British East India/British Empire flag with red and white stripes, and the United States flag, red and white stripes, the United States being still a British colony.

See the full story of how the Danites took over Laish, consulting with a heathen priest of the tribe of Levi and hiring him afterward, how they stole their cousin's idols like they would be a good thing to have, how they used their women and children as human shields/Trojan Horse to "come in peaceably" to Laish to destroy it, and so much treachery I don't have time to elaborate on: biblehub.com/kjv/judges/18.htm

Except I do want to mention this:

"Judges 18... 4And he said unto them, Thus and thus dealeth Micah with me, and hath hired me, and I am his priest. 5And they said unto him, Ask counsel, we pray thee, of God, that we may know whether our way which we go shall be prosperous. 6And the priest said unto them, Go in peace: before the LORD is your way wherein ye go...

This is soooooo reminiscent of this:

The Literal Translation of “Annuit Coeptis”

The Latin phrase “Annuit Coeptis” is very important in American symbols. It’s on the Great Seal of the United States. It says that divine providence helps the nation. ...

To get its meaning, we look at each word:

“Annuit” comes from “annuo,” which means “I approve” or “I favor.”

“Coeptis” comes from “coeptum,” meaning “undertaking” or “beginning.”

Together, these words say a lot about divine approval of American plans.

Implications of the Translation

The full Latin of “Annuit Coeptis” is “[He] favors [our] undertakings.” It means a higher power likes what the nation does. It shows that the nation has help from above....

...The Role of “Annuit Coeptis” in the Seal

“Annuit Coeptis” is a key part of the seal. It means “He favors our beginnings.” It shows the belief in God’s help for America."..."

From a (Judeo-) MASONIC site: explorefreemasonry.com/annuit-coeptis/

I don't believe their "God" is our God; I believe their "god" is Lucifer/Satan/the Devil.

more symbols on the Great Seal, according to the above masonic site:

"Olive Branch = Peace on Eagle’s right talon

Arrows = Readiness for war on Eagle’s left talon"

See Deuteronomy 20:10-16. same way they treat the Palestinians, whom they call the Amalekites. They call us goy that as well, along with "Edom/Esau" and various and sundry other names.

As I have said before, I believe there are two nations struggling in the womb of America: the nation founded with a cross and a charter and declaration to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ,.... and the kingdom of Anti-Christ. :

First Charter of Virginia, April 10 1606

"...We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, and to a settled and quiet Government: DO, by these our Letters Patents, graciously accept of, and agree to, their humble and well-intended Desires; ..."

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/va01.asp

(Micah 4:1-2/Psalm 2:6, etc.)

The enduring legacy of the First Landing (With a wooden cross and prayer dedicating this nation to Jesus Christ and the gospel):

"...Each morning and evening, Rev. Hunt lead his people in the following prayer:

Almighty God, … we beseech Thee to bless us and this plantation which we and our nation have begun in Thy fear and for Thy glory … and seeing, Lord, the highest end of our plantation here is to set up the standard and display the banner of Jesus Christ, even here where Satan's throne is, Lord, let our labour be blessed in labouring for the conversion of the heathen. … Lord, sanctify our spirits and give us holy hearts, that so we may be Thy instruments in this most glorious work."...

https://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41327/

...which might be explained by THIS:

“America” Means The Land Of Lucifer!!! (that SERPENT again)

https://www.soulask.com/america-the-land-of-lucifer-the-real-story-behind-the-name/

There's SO much more I want to say. I will if I have time. Still haven't gone back to study yours and watchman's other replies to me. We are fighting the devil up close and personal on my own turf, and it takes up a lot of my time. I would appreciate your prayers. Yes, we did lose power but only about an hour that time. Then I made the mistake of clicking on one story on 4um, and proceeded to go down another rabbit hole. sigh. However, I still need to prepare for the next onslaught tomorrow through Wednesday, and hopefully not beyond, unless I lose power AGAIN, which I am afraid of.

Looking back at the title of this post, if you ask me, one proof of God is what He said in Genesis 3:15, and the Final Battle of which we see before us in our very own America.

sorry...I realize this is once again getting long...and I've barely scratched the surface.

I hope you don't lose power. I recently purchased a generator for just such an occasion

seriously thinking about that as well.

The Rock, in my opinion is an agitator

I keep wondering if he's Jewish. Did you or watchman say something about "pearls before swine"? No offense, Rock...I really don't know you. Yes, the Bible does say that, but God also said, "My Word shall not return to me void"? Did I get that right or botch it? As Daniel said, "knowledge shall increase". With the internet, anything said to Rock might be read by someone else, for whom it might make a difference. I've watched two sermons by Pastor Chuck Baldwin in the last few days, and he said once again, 80-90% of evangelicals are baptized in (Cyrus) Scofield Zionism like Rock. Remember Revelation 20:7-10. Satan goes out to deceive the world. It makes me want to tear my hair out.

Anyway, it's always a pleasure to see you here.

I don't have much hope of Trump stopping this. I keep seeing things that would seem to negate that hope. I've watched him saying the Palestinians need to be removed and we need to rebuild.

Trump says he's in no rush to implement plan to take over the redevelopment of Gaza .... The man with the plan - DC professor sent Trump Gaza relocation development study in July. (just gaaaaag me)

Trump is doubling down and mentioned building the Palestinians a place where they'll be safe and happy. It's impossible for me to believe he doesn't know who the rightful people are to inhabit that land. People that have ancestors buried there and that possessed farms and olive groves before the Jew invasion.

I watched an interview where Trump sounded to me like he wanted to buy Gaza and develop it. [The Trump Riviera]. (Gaaaag me too)!

I'm afraid I don't believe the founders were in the main, Christians. I actually think they were inclined to paganism as displayed in the U.S. Capitol Building Dome.

I believe the population were Christian and the deists made the necessary concessions to become liberated. I also believe a deal was made to end the revolution. I believe the Generals (all Freemasons on both sides) decided it would be best to make it appear that the colonists had won and they convinced the king to agree. Keeping in mind that if not for Patrick Henry there wouldn't have been a Bill of Rights.

Trump is doing enough to pacify the recently awakened on the one hand while he works his magic with "his hidden hand." Many overtures are made about Trump's godliness, some by pundits claiming God saved him, and Trump himself said "Maybe I'm the Chosen One," and yet he repeatedly read the words to the song "THE SNAKE" (you knew I was a snake before you took me in) at so many of his campaign rallys. You know they always have to tell us.

All I care to say at this point in time is that I have never felt like the people on earth were in more trouble/tribulation than exists today. That being said, I have never felt more at peace and I'm truly happy to be alive for whatever comes my way. If God be for us who can be against us ?

God bless !

Trump is doubling down and mentioned building the Palestinians a place where they'll be safe and happy

I keep hearing stuff like that too!

Now it's official...I saw the article Horse just posted and where you commented. I had been trying to pull up the following short vid:

Donald Trump says Palestinians won't have the right to return to Gaza under his plan.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxE34V3LWyQ

This is so, so, so, EVIL.

It's impossible for me to believe he doesn't know who the rightful people are to inhabit that land. People that have ancestors buried there and that possessed farms and olive groves before the Jew invasion.

I think Trump is one of them, or being blackmailed by them, or both, but I really think it's the former.

I'm afraid I don't believe the founders were in the main, Christians. I actually think they were inclined to paganism as displayed in the U.S. Capitol Building Dome.

I know what you mean by the dome. "The apotheosis (?) of George Washington" www.aoc.gov/explore-capit...art/apotheosis-washington

I actually think George Washington may have been a crypto-Jew, or crypto-Tribe of Dan more accurately. Most of them were Freemasons, which is just another front for Zionist Judaism.

I believe the population were Christian and the deists made the necessary concessions to become liberated. I also believe a deal was made to end the revolution. I believe the Generals (all Freemasons on both sides) decided it would be best to make it appear that the colonists had won and they convinced the king to agree.

Basically, I agree! And actually, they were all in cahoots with the Crown.

Great Britain owns USA

By: Stephen Kimbol Ames

Queen Elizabeth controls and has amended U.S. Social Security,

"...What people do not know is that the so called Founding Fathers and King George were working hand-in-hand to bring the people of America to their knees, to install a Central Government over them and to bind them to a debt that could not be paid.

First off you have to understand that the UNITED STATES is a corporation and that it existed before the Revolutionary war. See Respublica v. Sweers 1 Dallas 43. 28 U.S.C. 3002 (15)...."

www.natural-person.ca/pdf/Great_Britain_owns_USA.PDF

Here's the best back story I have ever read of the "American" Revolution:

" America, the land of the free and the home of the brave? or. . . the land of the fee and the home of the slave? The "American Revolution" is as well known an apparition as is the "War For Independence". Sadly, once again the spot-light is beamed upon a massive lie; in fact this one is a double-whammy. Not only was that war NOT a spontaneous uprising against tyranny, we Americans were fooled into believing we "won" that war.

Remembering that the Jews claim sole responsibility for the French Revolution -- in fact they claim responsibility for ALL revolutions-- consider the time line here:

1) The American revolution began in 1776, the alleged date of the 'founding' of the Illuminati..."

"... We'll take a short side-trip now to clear up some more lies we've been taught in history concerning the American "victory" over Great Britain. When Cornwallis surrendered to Washington on October 19th, 1781, he surrendered the battle, not the war. Under the Articles of Capitulation, the common British soldiers were held in forts, under conditions that they were fed the same as American troops; the officers -- one for every fifty soldiers -- lived nearby to see to their good treatment, while the officers themselves lived in fine quarters in society being served like royalty; the injured were hospitalized and treated, all at the cost of Americans (as usual).

The war had not been formally ended; and in fact, it was nearly six months later -- in March, 1782 -- that the House of Commons finally settled on a resolution to advise the king that the fighting part of the war should end. . . to be continued to this day, under cover, with silent weapons for quiet wars. From The History of the American Revolution, Vol. 2, Ramsay, 617-9, we read:

". . . Dec. 12,1781, it was moved in the House of Commons that a resolution should be adopted declaring it to be their opinion,

"That all farther attempts to reduce the Americans to obedience by force would be ineffectual, and injurious to the true interests of Great Britain."

The resolution failed at that time. Then:

"General Conway in five days after (Feb. 27), brought forward another motion expressed in different words, but to the same effect with that which he had lost by a single vote. This caused a long debate which lasted till two o'clock in the morning. It was then moved to adjourn the debate till the 13th of March.

". . . together with other suspicious circumstances, induced General Conway to move another resolution, expressed in the most decisive language. This was to the following effect that,

"The house would consider as enemies to his majesty and the country, all those who should advise or by any means attempt the further prosecution of offensive war, on the continent of North America, for the purpose of reducing the colonies to obedience by force."

"This motion after a feeble opposition was carried without a division. . . This resolution and the preceding address, to which it had reference, may be considered as the closing scene of the American war."

In other words, the good ol' boys got together and decided to stop the fighting. They had other ways to control their subjects (slaves) in America other than by "force", via the Rothschild banking cartel. It's interesting to note, too, that although the fighting stopped in 1781, the actual Treaty of Peace was not finalized until 1783.

Under this treaty the King, his heirs, subjects, etc. were allowed to keep, in perpetuity, any property they owned in America, without having to become American citizens; as well the King (and his heirs and successors) was to retain mineral rights: one third of all gold, silver and copper mined in America. The King granted fishing rights even designating where the fishermen could clean and dry their fish. To the victor go the spoils? ..."

www.sweetliberty.org/perspective/jewishpersecution18.htm

I believe the rich founding fathers wanted to keep their wealth but spread the COST (i.e., TAXES, around...to the peasants). I also believe it was the way for the Jews to get their foot in the door. Until the passing of the CONstitution, this was a Christian nation, founded by Christians for Christians. Jews were not allowed to hold public office. ; there was a Christian test oath to prohibit them. George Washington, at the urging of some Jews, did away with the Christian test oath. I just found another letter:

Sires

With leave and submission I address myself To those in whome there is wisdom understanding and knowledge. they are the honourable personages appointed and Made overseers of a part of the terrestrial globe of the Earth, Namely the 13 united states of america in Convention Assembled, the Lord preserve them amen–

I the subscriber being one of the people called Jews of the City of Philadelphia, a people scattered and despersed among all nations do behold with Concern that among the laws in the Constitution of Pennsylvania their is a Clause Sect. 10 to viz–I do believe in one God the Creature and governour of the universe the Rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked–and I do acknowledge the scriptures of the old and New testement to be given by a devine inspiration–to swear and believe that the new testement was given by devine inspiration is absolutly against the Religious principle of a Jew. and is against his Conscience to take any such oath–By the above law a Jew is deprived of holding any publick office or place of Government which is a Contridectory to the bill of Right Sect 2. viz

That all men have a natural and unalienable Right To worship almighty God according to the dectates of their own Conscience and understanding, and that no man aught or of Right can be Compelled to attend any Relegious Worship or Erect or support any place of worship or Maintain any minister contrary to or against his own free will and Consent nor Can any man who acknowledgesthe being of a God be Justly deprived or abridged of any Civil Right as a Citizen on account of his Religious sentiments or peculiar mode of Religious Worship, and that no authority Can or aught to be vested in or assumed by any power what ever that shall in any Case interfere or in any manner Controul the Right of Conscience in the free Exercise of Religious Worship

It is well known among all the Citizens of the 13 united States that the Jews have been true and faithful whigs, and during the late Contest with England they have been foremost in aiding and assisting the States with their lifes and fortunes, they have supported the Cause, have bravely faught and bleed for liberty which they Can not Enjoy —

Therefore if the honourable Convention shall in ther Wisdom think fit and alter the said oath and leave out the words to viz–and I do acknoweledge the scripture of the new testement to be given by devine inspiration then the Israeletes will think them self happy to live under a goverment where all Relegious societys are on an Eaquel footing–I solecet this favour for my self my Childreen and posterity and for the benefit of all the Isrealetes through the 13 united States of america

My prayers is unto the Lord. May the people of this States Rise up as a great and young lion, May they prevail against their Enemies, May the degrees of honour of his Excellencey the president of the Convention George Washington, be Extollet and Raise up. May Every one speak of his glorious Exploits. May God prolong his days among us in this land of Liberty &–May he lead the armies against his Enemys as he has done hereuntofore–May God Extend peace unto the united States &–May they get up to the highest Prosperetys &–May God Extend peace to them and their seed after them so long as the Sun and moon Endureth–and may the almighty God of our father Abraham Isaac and Jacob endue this Noble Assembly with wisdom Judgement and unamity in their Councells, and may they have the Satisfaction to see that their present toil and labour for the wellfair of the united States may be approved of, Through all the world and perticular by the united States of america is the ardent prayer of Sires

Your Most devoted obed Servant

Jonas Phillips

teachingamericanhistory.o...ips-to-george-washington/

MUST SEE this one as well:

George Washington's lasting gift to generations of Jews

www.csmonitor.com/2004/0915/p12s01-lire.html

Last paragraph:

"...Logan credits the social mobility of Jewish immigrants such as his father to the religious freedom guaranteed by the American government. "There were definitely individuals, even powerful individuals, who behaved in an intolerant way," he said. "There remain intolerant individuals. [In the US,] someone has the right to be intolerant, but they can't have the government help them."..."

Unless of course you're Jewish!!

"“South Dakota Governor, Kristi Noem, announces her intention to implement nationwide “anti-semitism” laws. As Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Noem will weaponize federal law enforcement and use anti-Semitism laws, and eventually the Noahide Laws, against American citizens.”

watch.pairsite.com/

As I said, the CONstitution allowed them to get their foot in the door, and they even claim the CONstitution is Jewish! And contained the Noahide Laws from the beginning!

www.israelnationalnews.com/news/334405

And it seems to be confirmed by the Architect of the Capitol again:

Relief Portrait Plaques of Lawgivers

https://www.aoc.gov/explore-capitol-campus/art/relief-portrait-plaques-lawgivers

to name a few:

HAMMURABI, KING OF BABYLON

www.aoc.gov/explore-capit...hammurabi-relief-portrait

MOSES

www.aoc.gov/explore-capit...art/moses-relief-portrait

MAIMONIDES (evil one)

www.aoc.gov/explore-capit...aimonides-relief-portrait

THOMAS JEFFERSON, ILLUMINIST:

www.aoc.gov/explore-capit...jefferson-relief-portrait

"A greater than Moses is here"/"The Lord is our Judge; the Lord is our Lawgiver"...WHERE IS HE???? NOWHERE to be seen. As George Washington said, "The United States GOVERNMENT is in no sense founded on the Christian religion" and in my opinion, that is its fatal flaw. https://biblehub.com/matthew/7-26.htm

if not for Patrick Henry there wouldn't have been a Bill of Rights.

Amen! Patrick Henry said I SMELL A RAT, when he got wind of what they were doing with their CONstitution.

Patrick Henry was a Christian, and the PTB will NOT give Patrick Henry any credit for giving us the Bill of Rights:

H.Res.290 - Urging the President to proclaim Sunday, December 15, 1991, as a National Day of Thanksgiving for the Bill of Rights and for the contributions of Patrick Henry to the Bill of Rights. 102nd Congress (1991-1992)

www.congress.gov/bill/102...ress/house-resolution/290

It went NOWHERE!

Trump is doing enough to pacify the recently awakened on the one hand while he works his magic with "his hidden hand." Many overtures are made about Trump's godliness, some by pundits claiming God saved him, and Trump himself said "Maybe I'm the Chosen One," and yet he repeatedly read the words to the song "THE SNAKE" (you knew I was a snake before you took me in) at so many of his campaign rallys. You know they always have to tell us.

yup, yup...I know, I know. I keep seeing all this and still don't want it to be true. I too can suffer from cognitive dissonance. The reality is too much to handle sometimes, and I'm not even being bombed on a continual basis...yet.

All I care to say at this point in time is that I have never felt like the people on earth were in more trouble/tribulation than exists today

I FINALLY realized, after all these years, what watch.pair's name means:

But the end of all things is at hand:

be ye therefore sober, and

watch unto prayer.

~ I Peter 4:7

That being said, I have never felt more at peace and I'm truly happy to be alive for whatever comes my way. If God be for us who can be against us ?

I am so glad for you. I wish I could be more at peace. We have too much going on. Precious lives at risk. But yes, that's what I said the other day to our latest almost daily attack: If God be for us who can be against us.

God bless you too!

Trump himself said "Maybe I'm the Chosen One,"

He actually said, "I am the chosen one"...an "I am" statement equating himself to God.

He fulfills every verse foretelling the AC.

He actually said, "I am the chosen one"...an "I am" statement equating himself to God.

He fulfills every verse foretelling the AC.

Time will tell.

He fulfills every verse foretelling the AC.

I can not disagree. Even the phraseology "Golden Age" is new age Satanic verbiage.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Is there anyone on this forum who would be described as an antichrist?

"Golden Age"

Refers to the 𝑹𝒆𝒗𝒊𝒗𝒆𝒅 Roman Empire.

The 10 toes of Nebuchadnezzar's statue.

You are afraid to name the obvious.

You are afraid to name the obvious.

Can you give me like a hint...a clue?

What are the first and last letters of this antichrist's name?

He actually said, "I am the chosen one"...an "I am" statement equating himself to God.

You are correct...that is what he said:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JsAQj36gCU

He fulfills every verse foretelling the AC.

So did Nero. So does King Charles and Prince William. I don't know if this is a double fulfillment or part of the script they all are playing...for centuries...to deceive. I HAVE read of them calling him ONE of their "messiahs", usually it's messiah ben joseph. I'd call him messiah ben dan. lol.

Nero...King Charles...Prince William

Every verse?

Granted, I have not run the gematria of the names of King Charles and William...but neither as yet have received what is in appearance a mortal head wound...

And...the Great Falling Away did not precede Nero's rise.

Only the one standing in front of us fulfills scripture...thus far.

part of the script they all are playing...for centuries

That's the really weird part...it seems to be all scripted.

They are using Bible prophecy as their script...

Not sure why. The prophecy says they all lose in the end.